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Revised Boomboyz List for more boom and less iffy units.

tulun wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
undercosted by way more than 10ppm
A twin melta is 50pts on its own, the model has a "twin melta thats not a twin melta" on a Gravis model for less than that.
Theyre easily half what they should be if not even less.

I mean, they shouldn't be 80 ppm.. that's a bit of hyperbole. I won't be shocked if they get a 5-10 ppm increase in the next point update.

That being said, Eradicators are really bloody good. I think they will be showing up a lot. I think the strategy will be in the buggy style list is to use the longer range of stuff like the Gunwagon / Mork to bait them in, and just blow them off with rockets. T5, 3+ save, 3 wounds is great, but it's good bait for rockets or a dragsta. And they are really optimal on big, expensive vehicles. If they double shoot a buggy, well, it'll probably die, but I'll swap a 90 point KBB for the 120 point Eradicators all day.

5-10 increase would be joke. You would then get worse weapon for same cost and stlll need to pay for carrier and t5 w3 carriers hitting on 3+ with trivial access to full rerolls aren't cheap. Well except for master faction to whom that stat is so bad you get weapon price discounted to compensate it seems...

Why wouldnt they be 70-80ppm?
Again, a twin-melta is 50pts and is HEAVY while these are Assault. Unless the model was a simple Sister model (oh wait those exist and only cost 1pt less for 1 shot) thats way too cheap, a Sister model at least can be easily killed so its a risk vs reward.
Gravis armor marines almost always require an unusually high amount of points shooting into them to kill them. Theres no hard-counter that doesnt cost twice what they are, or is tissue-paper (rokkit boyz)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Why wouldnt they be 70-80ppm?
Again, a twin-melta is 50pts and is HEAVY while these are Assault. Unless the model was a simple Sister model (oh wait those exist and still cost more) thats way too cheap, a Sister model at least can be easily killed so its a risk vs reward.
Gravis armor marines almost always require an unusually high amount of points shooting into them to kill them. Theres no hard-counter that doesnt cost twice what they are, or is tissue-paper (rokkit boyz)

Because you'd just take a quad lascannon dreadnaught, that's potentially untargetable because it's a character, and way cheaper. It can even split fire properly.

I'm not saying it's properly costed at 45-50 ppm, just saying that from an internal cost perspective, there's no way you can charge 80 ppm for the model. It would be shelved by marine players immediately.

As much as the T5, 3 wound profile is good against bolter fire, we literally have an ideal weapon to kill it -- the humble rokkit. Which you should have plenty of, given there are going to be vehicles everywhere.

tulun wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:



You make some very good points and I do think MSU boyz with Saw and rokkit for 100 PTS are a staple, as much unit of 4 MANz as unit of 5 kommandos.

However snakebite is the worst kulture of all. The gain is laughable and the loss gigantic. That 6+++ is not doing anything.
Also rule of 3 is still a thing, so unfortunately you can't have 4*5 or 6*5 Kommandos

Why a unit of 4 MANz? For out flank?

I dunno about that boy setup to be honest. I'm a big fan of rocket DS boys, but at a 10 man unit, how are you keeping them alive? We saw 30 man boy squads get blown off the board in 8th, and 9th is going to be just as deadly.

Boys need to be in bulk or in a delivery system of some kind (transport), and the transport route is prohibitively expensive for what you actually get.

PiñaColada wrote:
I personally don't really rate Flash Gitz that highly anymore and looking at your list Bigdoza I'd be tempted to keep it all Boomboyz and just straight swap those FGs for tankbustas. Then just switch out badrukk for a warboss or KFF big mek (to alleviate alpha strike risk).

I will say though, people are going nuts over those Chinorks and I'd say it's fairly likely they won't end up being the same after (another) day 1 FAQ and/or when the FW books drop. GW didn't understand the weird hole they dug themselves when they gave it the aircraft keyword (it's a helicopter, why is it more of an aircraft than like a heldrake?). I'd be hesitant to buy/scratch build a lot of them before we know some more.

Yeah, unless you own the models, don't covert this. This is with incomplete info, and is probably with an error on the Rattler Kannon cost.

I think whether or not you bring Flash Gits in something like or Tankbustas is just largely dependent on what you expect to face. FG are stupidly expensive now, but they are still amazing primaris / heavy infantry killers.

4 or 5 maximum models because i don´t think 6+ models is worth it. I just had the first game in 9th with a single blob of 30 and I find it ok, given that KFF works in melee (?!!) still.

I'd place eradicators at 55-60ppm ideally and see where that takes them. You have to remember that it's a unit that'll basically never split fire so they'll overkill almost anything they shoot at. That's fine for the big targets but stuff like buggies are odd for them I'd say. Are they going to shoot 6 shots into one buggy or try and kill one with two shots and soften another buggy with a single shot?

40ppm is criminal but yeah I agree with Tulun, 80 points would also be odd.

 Emicrania wrote:



4 or 5 maximum models because i don´t think 6+ models is worth it. I just had the first game in 9th with a single blob of 30 and I find it ok, given that KFF works in melee (?!!) still.

Gotcha. Yeah, 5 models makes sense to me too. You might as well just avoid blast. Plasma Devastators and their ilk are gonna be super common -- imagine an Ork mirror match facing down Smasha guns guaranteeing 3 shots, etc.

I think you need some sort of plan for those 10 man boy squads. Like maybe you take 1 20 man, 1 10 man, then mob up turn one. Yeah you can't do Green tide, but do we even have the CP for that anymore? Plus it's playable around simply by slaughtering the unit if it goes below half.

Did you try Kunnin' but brutal as well?

In the list I play I have the CP for doing that, since no TB and no SSAG AND no Kustom ammo means there are no many ways to sink CP beside fight twice, green tide and fight on death.
Also interrupt is borderline useless given how few boyz get to attack nowadays.

Redeploy today wasn't that big of a deal, we both could do it but I could deploy correctly beforehand anyway. Btw is gonna take some time to understand which secondaries we should pick , is not that easy to score many points.

I won 66,48 Vs harlequins. The dude played too aggressive, he pushed my front line and forced me to green tide T2, but he basically burned all his CP and only killed a buggy and some Grots. The revenge was pretty brutal so we rounded up end of T2.

Tip of the day, you can fly out of the board T1 with the bombers and come back T2 in order to shoot later on. Saving headbutt for T3 is scary

Regardless of where Eradicators are pointswise and whether or not it makes sense for balance reasons, they are where they are and they will be on the table.

What the hell are we going to do about it. Discuss.

Blast > horde
Eradicator > mech

What is the best way to vaporize Eradicators at a safe distance? Preferably turn 1 or turn 2.

Unfortunately, they will be in small groups and hiding in inconvenient places and are ideal ambush units. Their mobility and range are a problem.

 careh wrote:
I've been thinking about Ghaz + Makari patrol coming in from strategic reserves. It's a bit gimmicky but if you can clear an available edge of the deployment zone Ghaz along with a squad or two of grots can pin Makari for protection. With linebreaker / repair teleport homer (Makari) you're racking up 9vp a turn that really forces a reaction. With the amount of movement options orks have there's a decent chance you've already got a turn or two of linebreaker anyway to max it out.

I've thought about a patrol like that as well. For 2 CP you can bring Thrakka, Makari, a doc to exploit medi squigs and a unit of scarboyz. If you feel like making your painboy turn in to a mini-grotznik, you could even give it da lukky stikk for hitting on threes and re-rolls. You could even put a gorkanaut in there and end up dipping into all of the advantages goff have to offer with a single patrol.

Well as its shaping up, if we aren't among the first 2-3 Codexes released its going to be a frustrating period playing Orks.

I can't see any builds which can compete on anything like an even footing at the moment.

I'm almost tempted to just bring 200 boys, get on the objectives early and hope that I have enough points on the board before I get tabled.

Any kind of shooting strategy is now DOA. It's just bodies and pray that your opponent is bringing melta expecting vehicles and not blast.

 TedNugent wrote:
Blast > horde

Actually I don't think so. Someone on the news thread did the math and most blast weapons went up more in price (percentage wise) than most horde units, so that isn't actually true. Blast weapons are better at killing hordes, but not as good as things that were already butchering hordes anyways - like agressors, FW dreads or massed troop guns.

What is the best way to vaporize Eradicators at a safe distance? Preferably turn 1 or turn 2.

Unfortunately, they will be in small groups and hiding in inconvenient places and are ideal ambush units. Their mobility and range are a problem.

You could try hitting multiple units with an 'eadbut, otherwise SJD can shoot them and jump into safety afterwards. The wazbomm might also be a solution. Falling that, drive a warboss into them and smash them with the klaw.

Pickled_egg wrote:
Well as its shaping up, if we aren't among the first 2-3 Codexes released its going to be a frustrating period playing Orks.

I can't see any builds which can compete on anything like an even footing at the moment.

I'm almost tempted to just bring 200 boys, get on the objectives early and hope that I have enough points on the board before I get tabled.

Any kind of shooting strategy is now DOA. It's just bodies and pray that your opponent is bringing melta expecting vehicles and not blast.

Sounds pretty good to me!

I'm just starting orks but my plan is to go buggy heavy with shokkjump and war trike along with war bikes all charging forward. A burner bomba or 2 doing flying eadbutt then everything else is boys on objectives.

The main reason to take makari is his goff wide fnp... he’s also a great deal for his 2++ and mortal wounds... however i find it hard not to take a regular painboy w ghaz just so I can medi squig ghaz.

That way instead of wasting 2cp just put ghaz in a supreme command once he gets the keyword.

 TedNugent wrote:
Regardless of where Eradicators are pointswise and whether or not it makes sense for balance reasons, they are where they are and they will be on the table.

What the hell are we going to do about it. Discuss.

Blast > horde
Eradicator > mech

What is the best way to vaporize Eradicators at a safe distance? Preferably turn 1 or turn 2.

Unfortunately, they will be in small groups and hiding in inconvenient places and are ideal ambush units. Their mobility and range are a problem.

Smasha gunz. Always best choice against T4-5 multiwound high armored dudes. KBBs upgraded with their kustom job look good too.

First games I'm mostly focussing on ork units though, not enemy ones, taking all comers lists and trying to learn the mechanics of 9th edition, how to max out points scored. It's really pretty soon to say what our best combos look like in 9th edition.

And obviously, just from a defensive point of view, pushing them outside of 12" of your high value targets will help mitigate some of their damage.

On the flip side, those guys are "just" marines in melee so if you charge them then they're heavily neutered. Only ultramarines can really counteract that AFAIK. Even a humble 10 man grot or boy squad should be able to hold them up in melee for a turn.

Eradicator fire is wasted vs low cost vehicles and infantry too.

Their double shoot has to be same target.

 Jidmah wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
Blast > horde

Actually I don't think so. Someone on the news thread did the math and most blast weapons went up more in price (percentage wise) than most horde units, so that isn't actually true. Blast weapons are better at killing hordes, but not as good as things that were already butchering hordes anyways - like agressors, FW dreads or massed troop guns.

What is the best way to vaporize Eradicators at a safe distance? Preferably turn 1 or turn 2.

Unfortunately, they will be in small groups and hiding in inconvenient places and are ideal ambush units. Their mobility and range are a problem.

You could try hitting multiple units with an 'eadbut, otherwise SJD can shoot them and jump into safety afterwards. The wazbomm might also be a solution. Falling that, drive a warboss into them and smash them with the klaw.

Intredasting. Thanks as always.

I assume you mean the Bikerboss? A transport would be a bit...kablooie, I would think.

I don't feel like the Dragsta is super points efficient in comparison. It's around as expensive as a unit of Eradicators with 1/3 the firepower, with the potential to overkill them. Granted, they do have the mobility to angle them and disappear.

gungo wrote:
The main reason to take makari is his goff wide fnp... he’s also a great deal for his 2++ and mortal wounds... however i find it hard not to take a regular painboy w ghaz just so I can medi squig ghaz.

That way instead of wasting 2cp just put ghaz in a supreme command once he gets the keyword.

That would only happen as part of the codex, which might be years from now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TedNugent wrote:
I assume you mean the Bikerboss? A transport would be a bit...kablooie, I would think.

Correct, the foot boss would not have the speed to reach them is more likely would be used to clear out center objectives.

I don't feel like the Dragsta is super points efficient in comparison. It's around as expensive as a unit of Eradicators with 1/3 the firepower, with the potential to overkill them. Granted, they do have the mobility to angle them and disappear.

You don't need to wipe them out though. Killing just one or two already increases their chances of not killing a vehicle unless they are part of a castle. And if they are, 'eadbut the castle.
Marines will have troubles screening properly against it, da jump and other charges since they are no longer bringing 6 units of troops.

Also keep in mind that eradicators will be competing against other units for their slots, so you might not be seeing them as much as you'd think since bringing three gravis dudes with meltas means not bringing helblasters, eliminators, an executioner or a TF instead.

It’s not just the new codex we are still waiting for the saga faq... the medi squig takes ghaz from almost killable before he hits your line to Almost impossible to kill.


I’m also not worried about blasts from 6-10...
The fact it is min 3 isn’t a problem. If it was 3 per die then maybe... it won’t make much of a difference even when it does kick in. Now 11+ can be brutal.

Meganobz care about 6-10 as plenty of good meganob suited weapons will get max shots. Boyz less so but who takes boyz anyway.

Even nobs will hate plenty of weapos that get 50% boost

I have two minds about the size of my MANz units. On the one hand I like taking 10 MANz for the simplicity of it all. The threat of blast weapons is there but I think the benefit of stratagems and psychic powers out weighs that.

On the other hand, I'm most likely running mono deathskulls. So if I run 2x5 or 3x5 units I could chuck in some kombi rokkits and lean into the re-rolls a lot better.

PiñaColada wrote:
And obviously, just from a defensive point of view, pushing them outside of 12" of your high value targets will help mitigate some of their damage.

On the flip side, those guys are "just" marines in melee so if you charge them then they're heavily neutered. Only ultramarines can really counteract that AFAIK. Even a humble 10 man grot or boy squad should be able to hold them up in melee for a turn.

The melta rifles are assault, which means they've got more range than their half range would suggest.

They can move 8.5" on average and still double tap at BS4 on top of 12" melta range. Full BS at 17" with melta.

Quick shot at a list.

Sorry for the poor formatting, did it in Numbers.



General idea. Push with Ghaz + boys + grots on 1 side, while the Deff Dreads + Megatrakks + Wartrike push on the other. Da Jump Nobs turn 2, Tellyporta MANz turn 2, and punch through the hot zone on either side.

I could see swapping some stuff to take a burna bomber if need be (Straight up swap some Smashas, cause I hate smashas anyway).

Really hoping that ITC allows specialist detachments in it's rules. Or that otherwise a lot of the detachments stuff will be baked into the codex proper when it comes out. Didn't get to mess around with a BS3 freeboota morkanaught firing all it's dakka twice nearly enough.

Can only gain max of +1 to hit in 9th.

So Freeboota trait redundant with the Kustom job on top of no double shoot =/

Bigdoza wrote:
Can only gain max of +1 to hit in 9th.

So Freeboota trait redundant with the Kustom job on top of no double shoot =/

Not quite, the Kustom Job improves the ballistic skill and the Freebooter trait provides a to hit modifier:

Improve the unit’s Ballistic Skill characteristic by 1 (e.g. a Ballistic Skill characteristic of 5+ becomes 4+).

So you would still get to hit on 3+ with a Freebooter Morkanaut with Sparkly Bitz.

Bigdoza wrote:
Can only gain max of +1 to hit in 9th.

So Freeboota trait redundant with the Kustom job on top of no double shoot =/

Yeah, that's why there's a bit of an awesomeness difference for a freeboota naught when comparing slug gubbins to sparkly bits. Slug gubbins gives +1 to the roll when at 12" so that can't stack. But sparklybits gives you a bs4 so you can get that juicy, juicy BS3. Or I guess more accurately, bs4 with a +1.

If more people go MSU probably would help freebootas activate now too.

Oh yeah, it was always the difference for me when I played against a tau mate. "Oh you have taken a unit of 2 sheild drones Jojo? Something Something anime quote!"