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 Jidmah wrote:

I will be creating the new thread when the new edition officially launches. Otherwise the first few pages will be filled with speculation and not actual tactics. By the way, this will be the fifth thread of its kind I'll create

And we love ya for it, Jid! But I agree with the sentiment that CA 9th and GT9th are actually quite similar now and shouldn't force you to take drastically different lists in the way ITC, Nova/ETC etc did.

A few of the secondaries are switched out but mostly it's a VP here and there different in regards to scoring, arguably the most important one for us (either in way of offense or defense) is that attrition is switched out. Attrition is in CA 4VPs if you kill more units than your enemy that round, in GT it's called Grind them down and is "only" worth 3VP for doing the same thing. So it's harder to max out, although still possible. Other than that CA seem to have very little in the way of restricting reinforcements whereas in GT it's only allowed in T2 & T3 (like in 8th).

I feel like the first page in the new thread could have a section of ranking secondaries for us, sort of in the same way we currently have a paragraph for each clan. Obviously not as high of a priority as ranking the units/strats themselves but I feel like that's going to be a massive help for people who never played ITC before this. Once again, it'll be up to us ladz in the thread to chip in on that.

Ilgoth wrote:
Here's my starting list for 9th edition, sharing for the love towards others Orks. Gonna play couple of games and see how it holds, and then start improving it.

Spoiler:

DEATHSKULLS BATTALLION, 2000 points exact

HQ
- Warboss, Kustom Shoota + PK (Da Killa Klaw relic)
- Big Mek in M.A. with KFF

TROOP
- 10x shoota boyz (big shoota, boss with kombi-rokkit)
- 10x shoota boyz (big shoota, boss with kombi-rokkit)
- 10x shoota boyz (big shoota, boss with kombi-rokkit)

TRANSPORT
- Trukk
- Trukk

ELITE
- 5x MANZ, Kombi-Rokkit + Powerklaw
- 5x Kommandos
- 5x Nobz, everyone Big Choppa + Choppa
- 3x Nobz on Warbikes
- 3x Nobz on Warbikes

HEAVY SUPPORT
- Battlewagon with DeffRolla, Grot Rigger and some big shootas

FAST ATT
- 10x Stormboyz, boss with Big Choppa
- 10x Stormboyz, boss with Big Choppa
- 10x Stormboyz, boss with Big Choppa

FLYER
- Burnabommer with Skorcha Missiles
- Burnabommer with Skorcha Missiles

I think it is rather aggressive list that simply marches forward to take foothold on the table, aiming to hold it from there regardless of casualties. Not going for killy secondaries, but objective based. Linebreaker is good use I think.

Squad of boyz, nobz and warboss would be loaded in Battlewagon.

You have basically no firepower and no staying power. I don´t know how hard is your meta, but this list achieve nothing , I´m sorry.
If you aim into taking the board by mass, you lack the numbers and the staying power of multiple boyz units backed by at least 2 KFF and a painboy.
If you aim into being fast, buggies are better.
If you aim into having transports, you need more

There is no meta and it is cool to explore, however, pick up one strenght and one weakness for your list building, in this way you know what you can and what you cannot; otherwise you ll gonna be all over the place.


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PiñaColada wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

I will be creating the new thread when the new edition officially launches. Otherwise the first few pages will be filled with speculation and not actual tactics. By the way, this will be the fifth thread of its kind I'll create

And we love ya for it, Jid! But I agree with the sentiment that CA 9th and GT9th are actually quite similar now and shouldn't force you to take drastically different lists in the way ITC, Nova/ETC etc did.

A few of the secondaries are switched out but mostly it's a VP here and there different in regards to scoring, arguably the most important one for us (either in way of offense or defense) is that attrition is switched out. Attrition is in CA 4VPs if you kill more units than your enemy that round, in GT it's called Grind them down and is "only" worth 3VP for doing the same thing. So it's harder to max out, although still possible. Other than that CA seem to have very little in the way of restricting reinforcements whereas in GT it's only allowed in T2 & T3 (like in 8th).

I feel like the first page in the new thread could have a section of ranking secondaries for us, sort of in the same way we currently have a paragraph for each clan. Obviously not as high of a priority as ranking the units/strats themselves but I feel like that's going to be a massive help for people who never played ITC before this. Once again, it'll be up to us ladz in the thread to chip in on that.

With the limit to DS to T3 , do this means that once a flyer flew out the board, does it need to be back by T3 or it explodes?

No, those should be good Emicrania.. The relevant text snippet is this:
In Grand Tournament 2020 missions, Strategic Reserve and Reinforcement units can never arrive on the battlefield in the first battle round. Any Strategic Reserve or Reinforcement unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third round counts as having been destroyed, as do any units embarked within them (this does not apply to units that are placed into Strategic Reserve after the first battle round has started).

tulun wrote:
What do you guys think of this:

"While we stand we fight". [...]

Personally, my feeling is that this objective is a trap. I tried it twice with my DG now, but even trying to keep 2 LoC (2+/4++/5+++/T5/6W/LoS!) alive has proven nigh impossible. If people want stuff to die, they will kill it and giving up 15 VP is no joke.

PiñaColada wrote:
It's important to note that the warlord secondary is completely different in the GT pack. In there you score a number of VPs depending on which round you kill the warlord in.
Round 1 is 13VP
Round 2 is 10VP
Round 3 is 6VP
Round 4 is 3VP
Round 5 is 1VP

But since you declare any pregame strats after knowing which secondaries your opponent chooses (step 10 & 7 respectively) you could just put your warlord into reserve and have him come out somewhere safe T3 and as such mitigate almost all potential VP. Therefore I doubt we'll ever really see that secondary.

Well you choose reserves. Other pregame strategems(relics, warlord traits etc) are chosen during list building.


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tulun wrote:

This seems very, very interesting... why? We have some units that could be completely annoying to kill by the end of the game. Ideally these units are also contributing on the battlefield and not just hiding.

1) Shock Jump dragsta. Cost for 3: 330 points. All it takes is one of these guys surviving and you get the 5 VPs. One can fire and fade for 1 CP every round. So use all 3 aggressively, and if two die, the 3rd simply plays "hide behind obscuring terrain" until end of the game.

2) Ghaz. 300 point monster. If healed with a painboy, he might survive the game, or be extremely frustrating to remove.

3) Deffkoptas (Evil Suns). 250 for a squad of 5. Can fire and fade, similar to the SJD for 1 CP.

Even 2 of 3 units surviving is 10 VPs, and something we can control quite strongly, and it's also irrespective of what our opponent is using.

It might be an interesting secondary for us, given our speed and some stratagems in our pocket. Thoughts?

Edit: if it's literally models, it could be a problem for the SJD.

It speaks about models so I would presume SJD is 110 so any model over it makes any model above 110 the target. Ditto for deffkoptas. 50 pts is pretty cheap for that objective...

 Dendarien wrote:
Do you mean a new tactics thread? Unfortunately the new forum rules won't allow for this: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/788821.page

There is a thread about me and no one told me?

 Emicrania wrote:
We should open a new 3d this Saturday? So maybe we can corroborate something more focused on 9th.

Also I guess is important to remember that if we are talking competitive 40k, than we are talking always about the GT pack with the recommend board size. Otherwise It's gonna be a mess


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And for you guys playing boyz mob, bring a KFF or a pack or Kleenex, because you'll gonna cry salty tears Vs ANY Imperium list. Astra, SM, SoB, and AD mech will evaporate 30 boyz in a jiff.

GW hasn't given recommended board size. Just minimum they chose for money purpose.

 Emicrania wrote:

Also I guess is important to remember that if we are talking competitive 40k, than we are talking always about the GT pack with the recommend board size. Otherwise It's gonna be a mess

It's not going to be more of a mess than we had ITC, ETC and GW rules and that worked fine as well. If anything, the games will be more alike than ever before because people don't base entire strategies around house rules that don't exist at all for other people, like magic boxes or ITC secondaries.

Awesome Jid

Can´t we implement a flair or something like that, when talking about other sistems beside the GT pack?

The GT pack is very similar to the regular matched play pack. I don't think this will be necessary except when you want to discuss specific secondary objectives or missions, for which you can just say so.


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tneva82 wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
We should open a new 3d this Saturday? So maybe we can corroborate something more focused on 9th.

Also I guess is important to remember that if we are talking competitive 40k, than we are talking always about the GT pack with the recommend board size. Otherwise It's gonna be a mess


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And for you guys playing boyz mob, bring a KFF or a pack or Kleenex, because you'll gonna cry salty tears Vs ANY Imperium list. Astra, SM, SoB, and AD mech will evaporate 30 boyz in a jiff.

GW hasn't given recommended board size. Just minimum they chose for money purpose.

Considering how Emicrania has almost exclusively been playing on ITC circuits and all of the tournament organizers have already confirmed going down to minimum size, this point is moot.

I guess its just going to be a matter of gauging the meta isn't it?

If the meta is full of anti-tank like Melta than the boyz spam should be good. We will get tabled but can put a lot of progressive points on the board before hand.

However if you run the boyz spam list and come up against Wyverns or other blast weapons its not good to be a greenskin.

If all the horde players switch to fair weather marine msu might not face a ton of anti horde guns?

 Emicrania wrote:


You have basically no firepower and no staying power. I don´t know how hard is your meta, but this list achieve nothing , I´m sorry.
If you aim into taking the board by mass, you lack the numbers and the staying power of multiple boyz units backed by at least 2 KFF and a painboy.
If you aim into being fast, buggies are better.
If you aim into having transports, you need more

I am interested in hearing how you would improve, lets say the staying power of the list?


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Pickled_egg wrote:

However if you run the boyz spam list and come up against Wyverns or other blast weapons its not good to be a greenskin.

It is fair to point out that Wyverns will be there. Even without blast, it would be in the list. It is that good. So assume to face it.

 Emicrania wrote:


Damn they are trying to sell those buggies .... I think some buggies are good, but still expensive for their points and their ridicolously large base makes it impossible to fit into a KFF range.
Why the Wartrike?
The list is a good start, but I think you need at least 2 planes .

I´m playing a DS batt

Big Mek KFF
Warboss Biggest Boss+Relic klaw
Warphead Weirdboy
10x2 Grots
30 Boyz (18 shoota+9choppa+rokkit+Saw nob)
2x4 MANz (3 PK+ DoubleSaw)
2 SJD with kustom job
Morka KFF with +1BS
6 smasha
2 bombers.

I think is a good list but it needs polishing. Maybe a Gunwagon and +1 MANz instead of the SJD or maybe more buggies. However Obj sec is huge this edition. Trukk boyz spam might not be a bad idea after all.

Yeah, I have a similar one without trukks:

Wartrike 125
Warboss 110
9 boys, nob w/ BC 85
2x Grots 100
5 MANz, Saws 200
2x KBB 180
2x Dragsta 220
Battlewagon w/ Rolla 155
Gunwagon w/ Kannon 175
Morkanaut 340
Burna Bomber x2 310

The reason for the wartrike is just having an HQ that provides some anti tank, has some chaff clearing (Gork's roar), can potentially help with charges (Mork or battle wagon) and isn't totally deadweight if he needs to get into combat. With a list as mechanized as this, I don't know what else I'd take. All our other HQs are slogging. The gunwagon is probably camping the backfield. I could toss something in the Morkanaut I guess and have it pop out if it gets close to something.

And yeah, fair on Ghaz. I'm just spit balling. These secondaries just require a lot of rethinking of lists. Heck, I can even almost understand why stormboyz are 12 ppm. You could easily get several squads of them on pretty much any objective if you went first to plant a bunch of banners on most of the missions it looks like. Planting 3 turn 1/2 I think maxing out the secondary?


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 Jidmah wrote:


Personally, my feeling is that this objective is a trap. I tried it twice with my DG now, but even trying to keep 2 LoC (2+/4++/5+++/T5/6W/LoS!) alive has proven nigh impossible. If people want stuff to die, they will kill it and giving up 15 VP is no joke.

Interesting. Yeah there are probably ways you could easily maximize it but it would cripple your army (strategic reserves and have them show up turn 5.. I believe only the other stuff has the end of turn 3 restriction). The interesting thing will be if there are models that can count (as they have to be expensive), and can stay out of LoS. Maybe it's not really an Ork thing.

Ilgoth wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:


You have basically no firepower and no staying power. I don´t know how hard is your meta, but this list achieve nothing , I´m sorry.
If you aim into taking the board by mass, you lack the numbers and the staying power of multiple boyz units backed by at least 2 KFF and a painboy.
If you aim into being fast, buggies are better.
If you aim into having transports, you need more

I am interested in hearing how you would improve, lets say the staying power of the list?

That all depends on what is your theme.
Mech based list? Morkanaut with KFF or wazbomb with KFF.
Infantry based list? Than at list a walking KFF, not the slow dude, if not 2.
Mixed, than mixed KFF
This is just a tip not altering the list, which again has a fault that i´m gonna describe here:

Target saturation is a thing, If you have 1/3 soft targets (boyz and nobz are T4 tissue paper save), 1/3 medium target (bikes) and 1/3 hard target (veichle), you are giving your opponent a buck for ALL his guns. Normally it is important to pick a theme and stick to it, with orks even more since our saves are so gakky.

Rushing your opponent in the corner with orks, ATM is not possible , since we lack the punch. Weirdly enough Orks are a shooting army more than CC army nowadays.

tulun wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:


Damn they are trying to sell those buggies .... I think some buggies are good, but still expensive for their points and their ridicolously large base makes it impossible to fit into a KFF range.
Why the Wartrike?
The list is a good start, but I think you need at least 2 planes .

I´m playing a DS batt

Big Mek KFF
Warboss Biggest Boss+Relic klaw
Warphead Weirdboy
10x2 Grots
30 Boyz (18 shoota+9choppa+rokkit+Saw nob)
2x4 MANz (3 PK+ DoubleSaw)
2 SJD with kustom job
Morka KFF with +1BS
6 smasha
2 bombers.

I think is a good list but it needs polishing. Maybe a Gunwagon and +1 MANz instead of the SJD or maybe more buggies. However Obj sec is huge this edition. Trukk boyz spam might not be a bad idea after all.

Yeah, I have a similar one without trukks:

Wartrike 125
Warboss 110
9 boys, nob w/ BC 85
2x Grots 100
5 MANz, Saws 200
2x KBB 180
2x Dragsta 220
Battlewagon w/ Rolla 155
Gunwagon w/ Kannon 175
Morkanaut 340
Burna Bomber x2 310

The reason for the wartrike is just having an HQ that provides some anti tank, has some chaff clearing (Gork's roar), can potentially help with charges (Mork or battle wagon) and isn't totally deadweight if he needs to get into combat. With a list as mechanized as this, I don't know what else I'd take. All our other HQs are slogging. The gunwagon is probably camping the backfield. I could toss something in the Morkanaut I guess and have it pop out if it gets close to something.

And yeah, fair on Ghaz. I'm just spit balling. These secondaries just require a lot of rethinking of lists. Heck, I can even almost understand why stormboyz are 12 ppm. You could easily get several squads of them on pretty much any objective if you went first to plant a bunch of banners on most of the missions it looks like. Planting 3 turn 1/2 I think maxing out the secondary?

You know what, that list is not bad, I feel the wartike is lacking punch somewhat but still i like the list. In almost 2 years of ITC I never play to max out secondaries first, I like to play the long game and focus on board control from T2 onward. I m lucky I played so much ITC because it thought me so much about reading the scoring during the game. Rushing is 9/10 a bad option. You should rush and take out the big target only when you know that your opponent WILL squash you if you let him.
But now is pretty different secondaries, so I´m gonna spend the next 10 games only focusing on undeerstanding which secondary I need vs which army, and which secondary is good for us and/or my list.

 Emicrania wrote:


You know what, that list is not bad, I feel the wartike is lacking punch somewhat but still i like the list. In almost 2 years of ITC I never play to max out secondaries first, I like to play the long game and focus on board control from T2 onward. I m lucky I played so much ITC because it thought me so much about reading the scoring during the game. Rushing is 9/10 a bad option. You should rush and take out the big target only when you know that your opponent WILL squash you if you let him.
But now is pretty different secondaries, so I´m gonna spend the next 10 games only focusing on undeerstanding which secondary I need vs which army, and which secondary is good for us and/or my list.

Yeah definitely loop us in on secondary findings. I feel like knowing what secondaries to choose is going to be the art form in 9th and will probably be very dynamic. You'll have to really understand your list and your opponent's list.

My personal pet theory on lists -- In your sort of style of list (hybrid / more infantry based), I think bat / patrol (or patrolx2) lists are going to emerge as more optimal. Trading 2 CP to say... get Makari for planting flags (maybe Ghaz too), +1 to charge for your Nob / MANz squads out of deep strike, are going to be worth losing 2 CP to. Mech lists basically have to go mono detachment just to minimize what you spend on troops and because you're gonna be spending so much pregame on Kustom Jobs.

I am also very curious if Freebootas will actually turn out to be a powerhouse simply because people are going to be spamming MSU. If you can start triggering +1 to hit regularly, all of a sudden that Flash git price increase might actually make sense.

Ghaz can't plant flags because most actions are limited to infantry...

But I like that list as well, but on Sunday I will be running all goff orks to give Ghaz a proper first game

I still haven´t wrote off the FG neither, I fething LOVE the models and I like the way freeboterz lists play around; they forces you to be mindful about target priority and positioning.
Kind of unforgiving but extremly powerful. I mean you can boost a DJ or a Naut with KJ to 3+. That is I N S A N E.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
Ghaz can't plant flags because most actions are limited to infantry...

But I like that list as well, but on Sunday I will be running all goff orks to give Ghaz a proper first game

Ghaz is like that guy that arrives second at every race and nobody remembers him. He´s missing so many things with that idiotic Monster keyword....

An infantry spam Goff list is nothing to laught about.

 Jidmah wrote:
Ghaz can't plant flags because most actions are limited to infantry...

But I like that list as well, but on Sunday I will be running all goff orks to give Ghaz a proper first game

Ohh, yeah, I know. Just that a Goff patrol enables him to keep his clan trait without being your warlord (He'll likely get Supreme Commander). Plus a Goff patrol can allow you a painboy to keep ol Ghaz healthy. Plus you can always mitigate the patrol cost with Follow Me Lads! I think there will be some strong lists that lean into it.

Emicrania wrote:
I still haven´t wrote off the FG neither, I fething LOVE the models and I like the way freeboterz lists play around; they forces you to be mindful about target priority and positioning.
Kind of unforgiving but extremly powerful. I mean you can boost a DJ or a Naut with KJ to 3+. That is I N S A N E.

Dakka Jet sadly is capped at 4+ to hit, because both are hit modifiers, not BS modifiers. Fun fact, this edition, it could hit on a 2+ if firing at a flying unit. The SJD could hit on a 2+, though (as its gun fires at BS3+), and yeah, the Mork / Gork could be shooting at 3+.

I could easily see a list utilizing like 10 Mek Guns, 1-3 squads of Flash Gits mounted (maybe you just go for a Spearhead and take follow me lads?), Baddruk, then just as many buggies / dreads / Mork (MSU units) as you can fit in to trigger the +hit and blow them off the board. You wouldn't even necessarily be bad at board control, because the majority of that army can be mobile pushing the centre while doing this strat.

Ghaz is like that guy that arrives second at every race and nobody remembers him. He´s missing so many things with that idiotic Monster keyword....

An infantry spam Goff list is nothing to laught about.

I dunno. Wouldn't this still be better as Ghaz leading an army of Evil Suns? More DS shenanigans.

Got to play Ghaz and Makari. Figure will need to go live in the mission scoring pages for awhile to perfect as I'm not sure it has any chance to win apart from points. Been tryin mixing clans, but I dont like the exclusions the clan racism gives. Kept boys at 10 so blast isnt maxed 2 per wagon. Can mob up after the bail out if needed. Forktress wagon can operate more independently of the KFF. Really miss KFF on bike =(

For those that have used the Mork much...

If you say, faced down 9 Eradicators, would you put the Mork in the porta? Are there enemy army comps where you would rather it disappear for at least 1 turn so it has a chance to shoot before getting melted?

tulun wrote:
For those that have used the Mork much...

If you say, faced down 9 Eradicators, would you put the Mork in the porta? Are there enemy army comps where you would rather it disappear for at least 1 turn so it has a chance to shoot before getting melted?

If those eradicators aren't melting the mork, they are melting buggies left and right. Honestly, I'd rather have it right there on the board and hope they shoot the mork because they only wound it on 4+ and it has a 5++ for a chance of survival. In addition, the kustom mega zappa is probably your best bet for melting an entire unit at once, and it has 36" range, so in theory it can stay out of their range, or at least outside of melta-range.

tulun wrote:
For those that have used the Mork much...

If you say, faced down 9 Eradicators, would you put the Mork in the porta? Are there enemy army comps where you would rather it disappear for at least 1 turn so it has a chance to shoot before getting melted?

Target saturation is the key and the Morkanaut can soak a lot of firepower. I'm playing with Mork, BW forktress, Da Boomer, 3 Buggies and If those eradicators melt the Naut I'd have 3 buggies, Da Boomer and a vehicle full of angry orks that can run over primaris itself to play in my turn. So yeah, I wish my naut survives turn 1 but even if it goes down and all the other amored stuff survives it's no big deal. Losing all 3 T8 models turn 1 would be a disaster but honestly I don't think it would be even possible.

I'd probably bait anti tank dudes with the buggies since they could make them waste a lot of shots (once deployed they're single units and SM player can't split fire with eradicators) but also the forktress is a good distraction as it's actually as tough as the Morkanaut (just 2W of difference, both T8 5++) but worths and actually costs half the points and the footslogging Manz can always be jumped by the Weirdboy if their transport is wrecked.

How are we feeling about secondaries? Been listening to some interesting stuff.

For our own choice of secondaries:

1) Repair teleport homer. Quite interesting, given we can deep strike cheap infantry units behind enemy lines (Kommandos for 55, storm boyz for 60). 5 VPs if they can last the turn, and also pull them away from the centre.

2) Abhor the witch. If we forego weirdboys (which would be sad), we can potentially score 15 easy VPs just by killing characters we wanna kill anyway. Also comboable with Assassinate making every psyker we kill worth 8 VP for the first 3.

3) Linebreaker / engagement on all fronts. Something Orks are generally good at is getting units into areas of the board.

Ones that seem to be bad for us:
1) Bring it down. The vehicle list we love basically gives up an automatically 15 VP for the enemy. 6 from Burna Bombers alone. This might be a real negative towards the vehicle lists we're exploring.

2) Abhor the witch / assassinate. Our characters are squishy, especially the weirdboys. Can potentially be very easy VPs for our opponent.

3) Attrition. If we go vehicle spam, we are also very likely to give up this objective.


The secondary game is a real headache. I wonder if the real best route, regardless of list, will be to go with the board control heavy ones, and possibly start avoiding psykers just so we can potentially take Abhor the witch.

There are a few secondary objectives that are situationally really good, depending on what you face.
- If you don't have any psykers and are facing GK or TS (or potentially craftworlds, daemons etc) the Abhor the Witch is fantastic.
- If you're facing Knights (or just a single super heavy in an army that's tough to score against) then Titan Hunter is great. It's slightly changed in the GT pack though as it's now 10/12/15 VP per 1,2 and 3 titans killed respectively.
- If you're facing some sort of vehicle/monster spam then Bring it Down is probably still your best bet.
- When facing something like GSC Assassinate could be a good choice. Even though Orks aren't character killers as such almost all their HQs and Elites are squishy.
- If you're facing a very elite army/ one that's lacking some shooting then I'd consider Linebreaker. That one also depends if you have enough mobility to get there and units to spare on other fronts obviously.
- If you have a infantry, board control heavy army the Raise the Banners High is a pretty good bet. Merely being shot off the objectives doesn't "cancel" the flags so it's a fairly steady stream of points.
- A safe bet for a secondary is Engage on all Fronts IMO. It's tough to max out but if Linebreaker doesn't seem worth the hassle then it's your best bet in that category. I personally don't think Domination is valued high enough in regards to VP.


- I think the Teleport Homer is tough since actions are automatically interrupted if you engage the unit in CC (IIRC) and also it's only worth 4 VP in the GT and not 5. Doing that for 4 turns seem like a big ask to me.

- Attrition is gone in the GT pack and replaced by Grind Them Down. It's the same thing although it's worth 1 less point per successful turn. So someone would have to kill more units than you every single round to max it out. It's still potentially rough for us, but not as obvious that you'll get the max 15 now.
- Bring it Down is almost a guaranteed 15 VPs for the opponent when facing a lot of Ork lists. If your army already gives up like 18 potential VPs for that secondary, I'd either scale it back down to 10-12 or ramp it way up so it creates a skew list.
- Thin Their Ranks could potentially be trouble if you're going full horde list or horde-ish supported by stuff like trukks.

As a general note, none of the secondaries are good against "spamming" stuff like MANZ, they only give up one point each in Thin Their Ranks, they're difficult to get Grind Them Down points from. They can do Actions, get all the benefit from terrain etc. I'm not sure how viable it it trying to create a list that's tough to score against (how much you give up to get there, how many other secondaries are still highly doable etc). But stuff like tough infantry currently doesn't have any secondaries targeting them.

tulun wrote:
How are we feeling about secondaries? Been listening to some interesting stuff.

For our own choice of secondaries:

1) Repair teleport homer. Quite interesting, given we can deep strike cheap infantry units behind enemy lines (Kommandos for 55, storm boyz for 60). 5 VPs if they can last the turn, and also pull them away from the centre.

I don't think either of those units has the staying power to survive until your command phase. Hull mounted guns like stubbers and heavy bolters can easily wipe them out without any further commitment from your opponent.
A unit that could be doing really well at this one would be trukk boyz. At 12 they are sufficiently strong to survive some shooting and their trukk can block LoS and movement towards them.

2) Abhor the witch. If we forego weirdboys (which would be sad), we can potentially score 15 easy VPs just by killing characters we wanna kill anyway. Also comboable with Assassinate making every psyker we kill worth 8 VP for the first 3.

With the HQ slots now being limited, I would drop weirdboyz in vehicle lists anyways. He can't keep up and there are few units that can protect him, and most powers are pretty unreliable without the cast bonus.
For an infantry list, this objective isn't worth losing denies and da jump, warpath, fists, visions or seizures. It will be a free 15 VP against a few armies, but most also have their psykers compete with other HQ slots now, so even an army like eldar might only be bringing two psykers against space marines or guard you are most likely looking at no psykers, while tau, ad mech, knights or necrons never had any to begin with.

3) Linebreaker / engagement on all fronts. Something Orks are generally good at is getting units into areas of the board.

I'm not very fond of these since it's extremely unlikely that you can max these out.
You usually can't score linebreaker during T1 and from my experience, it's likely that you can't score it during T5 either because your army is gone. If your opponent manges to deny this for just one turn, it could be a winning move.
Engage on all fronts is quite easy score every turn, but normally it only rewards 2 VP. Also keep in mind that the primary objectives tend to be in the middle or very close to it, so a good portion of your units won't qualify for it.

Ones that seem to be bad for us:
1) Bring it down. The vehicle list we love basically gives up an automatically 15 VP for the enemy. 6 from Burna Bombers alone. This might be a real negative towards the vehicle lists we're exploring.

Is it though?
My list would be 6 from bommers, 3 from the naut, 3 from da boomer and 2 for each of 5 buggies. Assuming my opponent keep ignoring da boomer, they would have to kill the naut and 3 buggies to gain they full amount of VP. A lucky streak of KFF saves can easily ruin that perfect 15 VP.
It's not hard to give up those points, but by no means "automatic", I've finished games with a lot less casualties than required to max this, and I expect lethality to go down for 9th, not up.

2) Abhor the witch / assassinate. Our characters are squishy, especially the weirdboys. Can potentially be very easy VPs for our opponent.

Two weird boyz are just 10 VP though. Assuming you actually bring two, and not just one for da jump.

3) Attrition. If we go vehicle spam, we are also very likely to give up this objective.

I disagree. If they try to down a bommer or naut or battlewagon, that's probably going to be most of their shooting. Killing two units in return isn't hard - especially if you hit a character with the 'eadbut.

That said, it will be quite a bit of trial and error until we find our perfect mix. Personally, I'm happy to toy around with an edition again that hasn't been "solved" yet.

Looks like KFF mek is 80 points for sure doh

Bigdoza wrote:
Looks like KFF mek is 80 points for sure doh

Why? RAW he doesn't have the wargear item, so he doesn't need to pay for it.

Seen screen of the page, it is under a section with
" *Excludes Wargear"

Bigdoza wrote:
Seen screen of the page, it is under a section with
" *Excludes Wargear"

The KFF mek's wargear is slugga, choppa and stikkbombs, nothing else.

He can only have an Oiler as wargear so it's a 60 or 65 model.

Ah I see.

New Mek datasheet from the book I didnt buy lol.

Pretty poor consistency, wargear for some, but not for others.