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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
That was perhaps the most contraversial part of the Oldcron lore: the Necrons were an Outside Context Problem in both quality and scale (FTL, no actual losses, perhaps raw numbers), hinted at becoming an enemy an order of magnitude more dangerous than any other foe for the Imperium (with the possible exception of Tyranids). At the "present" time of the codex, the Imperium was sending their soldiers and superhuman marines to fight while the Necrons were sending their farmers with varmint guns.

For understandable reasons, people who thought Chaos or Orks should have been an existential threat were peeved at their armies' place-putting. Now GW is catering to them, and my opinion of the current fluff is that it's horrible.

IDK, even in the old lore the tyranids were a comparable threat, because it was strongly hinted that the hive fleets previously encountered (even the one that wrecked Macragge) were "scouting fleets", and were nothing next to the full force of the tyranid hive about to descend on the galaxy from extragalactic space. It was also strongly hinted that the tyranids had devoured at least one other galaxy of all life and were now in a mass migration towards ours.

The orks were being united in a way they haven't been since the beast during the great crusade, under the banner of Ghazghkull. This signaled a return to power of the orks and a possible rebirth of the krork empire, one that was supposedly powerful enough to fight toe-to-toe with the necrons at the height of their power (even though they eventually lost). They are the perfect bioweapon, some might even say the perfect organic life-form, arguably even comparable to the tyranids.

Chaos has always been terrifying... extradimensional daemons that touch the mind of every sentient living thing except blanks. Chaos corrupts everything it touches, including supposedly the necrons who feared it so much they tried to cut off the warp from realspace permanently. Chaos was the Old One's final and most terrifying weapon unleashed against the necrons during the war in heaven as an act of desperation.

The necrons aren't at the height of their power anymore. The eons have dulled them. Enough for the other factions to beat them? Who knows? I fail to see how the other factions were feeling small next to the necrons even in the old lore. Every xeno faction was 11/10 on the "oh fething hell" chart except possibly the Eldar (both flavors) who were on the decline, and the T'au who were very young as an empire.

w1zard wrote:

Merkabah wrote:
I chose newcrons because it has more potential than a gang of rampaging killbots.

Rampaging, hyperintelligent, super-efficient killbots, filled with a hatred of all other forms of life that would put a dalek to shame, with the patronage of cthulu-esque monsters that make the chaos gods look like gretchin in comparison. Yea I really miss the old lore.

There was a tomb world in the old lore who's protocols were so predictable that the local guard regiment used them for drills.

I know it's very easy to get lost in the nostalgia but the original lore was just as capable of putting together stupid ideas that make the Necrons look bad as the new.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

w1zard wrote:

Merkabah wrote:
I chose newcrons because it has more potential than a gang of rampaging killbots.

Rampaging, hyperintelligent, super-efficient killbots, filled with a hatred of all other forms of life that would put a dalek to shame, with the patronage of cthulu-esque monsters that make the chaos gods look like gretchin in comparison. Yea I really miss the old lore.

There was a tomb world in the old lore who's protocols were so predictable that the local guard regiment used them for drills.

I know it's very easy to get lost in the nostalgia but the original lore was just as capable of putting together stupid ideas that make the Necrons look bad as the new.

That was due to a AI error that caused the necrons to repeat their raiding protocols.
It captured the idea of alien machines better and was a lot less dumb than Don Quixote in space.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

w1zard wrote:

Merkabah wrote:
I chose newcrons because it has more potential than a gang of rampaging killbots.

Rampaging, hyperintelligent, super-efficient killbots, filled with a hatred of all other forms of life that would put a dalek to shame, with the patronage of cthulu-esque monsters that make the chaos gods look like gretchin in comparison. Yea I really miss the old lore.

There was a tomb world in the old lore who's protocols were so predictable that the local guard regiment used them for drills.

I know it's very easy to get lost in the nostalgia but the original lore was just as capable of putting together stupid ideas that make the Necrons look bad as the new.

That's actually from the 5th ed Wardcron des.

 Blndmage wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

w1zard wrote:

Merkabah wrote:
I chose newcrons because it has more potential than a gang of rampaging killbots.

Rampaging, hyperintelligent, super-efficient killbots, filled with a hatred of all other forms of life that would put a dalek to shame, with the patronage of cthulu-esque monsters that make the chaos gods look like gretchin in comparison. Yea I really miss the old lore.

There was a tomb world in the old lore who's protocols were so predictable that the local guard regiment used them for drills.

I know it's very easy to get lost in the nostalgia but the original lore was just as capable of putting together stupid ideas that make the Necrons look bad as the new.

That's actually from the 5th ed Wardcron des.

Wasn't it from the 5th ed BRB, before the codex was released? I could have sworn I read it there first.

I have mixed feelings. I liked the Pariahs and the "mysterious incrutable aliens / terminator" vibe of the old style Necrons. But I despised the C'tan and am glad they got ripped to bits in the plot. Also current cannon seems to suggest the Necrons are the ultimate loser race who never ruled the galaxy and were almost always getting beat up by someone...

Cheeslord wrote:
I have mixed feelings. I liked the Pariahs and the "mysterious incrutable aliens / terminator" vibe of the old style Necrons. But I despised the C'tan and am glad they got ripped to bits in the plot. Also current cannon seems to suggest the Necrons are the ultimate loser race who never ruled the galaxy and were almost always getting beat up by someone...

Its not clear, but I think they did rule the galaxy for a bit. Not for long though.
The new fluff isn't well written, so it may seem like they fought the C'tan right after beating the Old Ones, whereas you'd think they would spend some time preparing first.

Oldcrons were my first army, when they were released. I loved the stories, and I loved the rules, But I hated Phase out (for you younglings, "Phase Out" was a rule that meant when you were reduced to 25% of your models, the army just disappeared and the opponent won. it sucked.)

The old fluff was exceptional, I felt. The necrons were sleeping under the planets that humans built their empire on. Then they woke up, and started murdering everyone. if you killed them, they just teleported home to be fixed, then came back. their guns would strip you one layer at a time, until there was nothing left, feeding your matter back to the gun to power itself. flayed ones were corrupt, and draped themselves in skin to try and regain their mortality. The imperium didn't know anything about them, only that when they turned up, everyone died. it was so much more sinister than the tyranids, and was a much needed horror for the game, beyond chaos, which was more entertaining horror.

Now they fly around on croissants, use lightning guns and, apparently, talk. sinisterness out of the window. now just a race of robot space aliens.

I guess I am nearly the only one who liked the idea of the C'Tan in the old fluff? That the Necrontyr basically made a deal with the devil just to overcome their mortal limitations, rather than the Deceiver coming to the Silent King?

I like what they were trying to do with the new fluff, but it really makes Necrons too much of cookie-cutter villains, as many people here have already alluded to. The Silent King and Triarch stuff just feels like bad fluff feeding bad rules and then vice-versa.

If I was actually a talented writer, I'd attempt to bridge the gap and try to make new fluff that captures the essence of the old, with the more "personable" ideal of the new ,but it would also be a waste of time.

For the sake of an earlier request, I started Necrons in 4th edition, after getting into the miniatures game post-Dawn of War.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Cheeslord wrote:
I have mixed feelings. I liked the Pariahs and the "mysterious incrutable aliens / terminator" vibe of the old style Necrons. But I despised the C'tan and am glad they got ripped to bits in the plot. Also current cannon seems to suggest the Necrons are the ultimate loser race who never ruled the galaxy and were almost always getting beat up by someone...

Its not clear, but I think they did rule the galaxy for a bit. Not for long though.
The new fluff isn't well written, so it may seem like they fought the C'tan right after beating the Old Ones, whereas you'd think they would spend some time preparing first.

My understanding was that the Necrons turned on the C'tan immediately after defeating the Old Ones, since that final epic battle would have been when the C'tan were at their weakest.

Of course, this in turn required the Necrons to blow their wad completely and put them in a position where they couldn't compete with the Eldar.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Cheeslord wrote:
I have mixed feelings. I liked the Pariahs and the "mysterious incrutable aliens / terminator" vibe of the old style Necrons. But I despised the C'tan and am glad they got ripped to bits in the plot. Also current cannon seems to suggest the Necrons are the ultimate loser race who never ruled the galaxy and were almost always getting beat up by someone...

Its not clear, but I think they did rule the galaxy for a bit. Not for long though.
The new fluff isn't well written, so it may seem like they fought the C'tan right after beating the Old Ones, whereas you'd think they would spend some time preparing first.

My understanding was that the Necrons turned on the C'tan immediately after defeating the Old Ones, since that final epic battle would have been when the C'tan were at their weakest.

Of course, this in turn required the Necrons to blow their wad completely and put them in a position where they couldn't compete with the Eldar.

They could, but the Silent King thought it would be rather pyrrhic. Since time was now on THEIR side, he thought he'd give them time to self-destruct, and they rather did. Unfortunately, a rather upstart race came along in the meanwhile that seems to owe some patronage to both Old One and C'tan.

Newcrons are better. I liked the old fluff, but the new fluff is infinitely better regarding forging a narrative with your army. I have a full court of characters i've named. Court politicking, actual honest-to-god goals that are more than smoke and mirrors.

They are now capable of being protagonists in their own story, rather than just an adversary for the other factions to shoot at.

That being said, I also liked the tomb kings lore.

Newcrons have Trazin, that makes them infinitely better.

 Charistoph wrote:
They could, but the Silent King thought it would be rather pyrrhic. Since time was now on THEIR side, he thought he'd give them time to self-destruct, and they rather did. Unfortunately, a rather upstart race came along in the meanwhile that seems to owe some patronage to both Old One and C'tan.

If you are talking about humans, I don't think humans have ever been linked to the old ones in any way, considering that they disappeared 40 million years ago, way before human life was even in a recognizable form on earth.

Humans are also enemies of the C'Tan outside of a few mechanicus worshipers, considering the Emperor dueled with the void dragon and imprisoned him on mars.

Tyran wrote:
Newcrons have Trazin, that makes them infinitely better.

Trazyn was possible in the old lore too, considering that even in the old lore it stated that the lords were the only ones who had any kind of personality. Sadly instead of working with the old lore they overhauled it to be tomb kings in space.

Yeah, I like tomb kings in space. Especially since they were squatted in fantasy.

w1zard wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:
They could, but the Silent King thought it would be rather pyrrhic. Since time was now on THEIR side, he thought he'd give them time to self-destruct, and they rather did. Unfortunately, a rather upstart race came along in the meanwhile that seems to owe some patronage to both Old One and C'tan.

If you are talking about humans, I don't think humans have ever been linked to the old ones in any way, considering that they disappeared 40 million years ago, way before human life was even in a recognizable form on earth.

Humans are also enemies of the C'Tan outside of a few mechanicus worshipers, considering the Emperor dueled with the void dragon and imprisoned him on mars.

"Some" being the defining word. I never really stated how extensive it was.

Consider it either an Old One in hiding, or more likely, the initiation of the life process which ended up being human. Either way, some patronage there.

The imprisoning of the Void Dragon is what led to much of the Imperium's tech, so some patronage there. There are also some indications that a shard of the Deceiver started implementing the "Blank" or "Pariah" gene in to humanity at some point. Though, with the Deceiver, you can never really tell.

Newcrons by a country mile.

Prior to this, they themselves had no character. And the tabletop rules for C'Tan made them seem daft.

The Newcrons however have agency all their own.

And the best bit? Absolutely the best bit? None of the Newcron background actually erases the original. Not when you consider The Deceiver could have quite easily programmed in a 'we killed the C'Tan' fantasy into each and every one of the Necrons during bio-transference.

I like the newcrons.

The added depth to their story I quite like. I didn't like how the old necrons seemed to have no purpose besides mindless slaves. I think GW needs to make more of an emphasis to show how they have changed to conquer and enslave races to add to their ranks. Like the Borg they need to kill to add a slave caste to their ranks. That would be a terrifying way to increase their importance on the story of the game.

I miss the lovecraftian vibe that oldcrons had. That's missing now from Warhammer 40k.

And before anyone says "BUT MUH TYRANIDS": They're not really lovecraftian. The whole point of lovecraft was madness and cosmic horror from beings that could barely perceive you. The Tyranids absolutely perceive you (including getting shot off your world in some cases), don't really cause madness (GSC can break social order, but studying the Tyranids doesn't drive individual academics off the deep end), and are basically just hive-mind predators. Not really a "cosmic horror."

Meanwhile, the Old C'tan barely perceived humans as different from eldar, orks, whatever. They were all food, like motes of dust to be hoovered up for sustenance. The Nightbringer was the cause of the "Grim Reaper" in the minds of the living races, Death with his Scythe, implying a great horror from beyond the stars that could be worshipped as a god. Studying the Necrons drove Imperial historians and philosophers to madness; the former Imperial archaeologist "Thomas" in Dawn of War: Dark Crusade becomes what is essentially a lovecraftian cultist after being driven mad from unearthing a tomb. The Necrons, obligingly, turn them into a pariah to serve them.

Then there was the old Lovecraftian themes like the poems and prophecies of the Eldar, that talked of the return of "The Outsider" and "Vaul-Moons" and other cryptic things, much in the way Cassilda's Song speaks cryptically of the King in Yellow...

.... bah. We need more lovecraft in 40k, and changing necrons utterly killed it.

I want to build a King in Yellow army now. And I can't.

The thing I miss about the old C'tan was that they were the anti-thesis to Chaos.

On one hand, you have the Chaos Gods, who are metaphysical representations of raw emotion and change.

On the other hand, you have the C'tan, who are physical incarnations of the very forces of the material world.

Both of which are cruel, uncaring entities who drive any mortal they meet to madness, but they represent two entirely different concepts and forces.

If the chaos gods are Chaotic Evil, then the C'tan are Lawful Evil. I miss that dichotomy between the Oldcrons and Chaos. You don't really have it now. Oh, they say that the Necrons are still orderly, but they don't act like it.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I miss the lovecraftian vibe that oldcrons had. That's missing now from Warhammer 40k.

And before anyone says "BUT MUH TYRANIDS": They're not really lovecraftian. The whole point of lovecraft was madness and cosmic horror from beings that could barely perceive you. The Tyranids absolutely perceive you (including getting shot off your world in some cases), don't really cause madness (GSC can break social order, but studying the Tyranids doesn't drive individual academics off the deep end), and are basically just hive-mind predators. Not really a "cosmic horror."

Meanwhile, the Old C'tan barely perceived humans as different from eldar, orks, whatever. They were all food, like motes of dust to be hoovered up for sustenance. The Nightbringer was the cause of the "Grim Reaper" in the minds of the living races, Death with his Scythe, implying a great horror from beyond the stars that could be worshipped as a god. Studying the Necrons drove Imperial historians and philosophers to madness; the former Imperial archaeologist "Thomas" in Dawn of War: Dark Crusade becomes what is essentially a lovecraftian cultist after being driven mad from unearthing a tomb. The Necrons, obligingly, turn them into a pariah to serve them.

Then there was the old Lovecraftian themes like the poems and prophecies of the Eldar, that talked of the return of "The Outsider" and "Vaul-Moons" and other cryptic things, much in the way Cassilda's Song speaks cryptically of the King in Yellow...

.... bah. We need more lovecraft in 40k, and changing necrons utterly killed it.

I want to build a King in Yellow army now. And I can't.

Well said.

I disliked some of the shoehorning of the C'tan into the background, but damn were they awesome villains. Plus the idea that the Necrons only served as a conduit for the C'tan to feed on the "life-force" of intelligent life was epic. Despite the fact that, yes, technically you can still field Necrons who worship the C'tan, the gravitas behind it has been greatly reduced.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I miss the lovecraftian vibe that oldcrons had. That's missing now from Warhammer 40k.

And before anyone says "BUT MUH TYRANIDS": They're not really lovecraftian. The whole point of lovecraft was madness and cosmic horror from beings that could barely perceive you. The Tyranids absolutely perceive you (including getting shot off your world in some cases), don't really cause madness (GSC can break social order, but studying the Tyranids doesn't drive individual academics off the deep end), and are basically just hive-mind predators. Not really a "cosmic horror."

Meanwhile, the Old C'tan barely perceived humans as different from eldar, orks, whatever. They were all food, like motes of dust to be hoovered up for sustenance. The Nightbringer was the cause of the "Grim Reaper" in the minds of the living races, Death with his Scythe, implying a great horror from beyond the stars that could be worshipped as a god. Studying the Necrons drove Imperial historians and philosophers to madness; the former Imperial archaeologist "Thomas" in Dawn of War: Dark Crusade becomes what is essentially a lovecraftian cultist after being driven mad from unearthing a tomb. The Necrons, obligingly, turn them into a pariah to serve them.

Then there was the old Lovecraftian themes like the poems and prophecies of the Eldar, that talked of the return of "The Outsider" and "Vaul-Moons" and other cryptic things, much in the way Cassilda's Song speaks cryptically of the King in Yellow...

.... bah. We need more lovecraft in 40k, and changing necrons utterly killed it.

I want to build a King in Yellow army now. And I can't.

Well said.

I disliked some of the shoehorning of the C'tan into the background, but damn were they awesome villains. Plus the idea that the Necrons only served as a conduit for the C'tan to feed on the "life-force" of intelligent life was epic. Despite the fact that, yes, technically you can still field Necrons who worship the C'tan, the gravitas behind it has been greatly reduced.

You know, people keep saying you can still have old style necrons and C'tan worshippers, but you never see it. Its barely mentioned in the fluff and no trait supports that. Where's my "Empire of the Severed" trait? Where's my "Cult of the Void Dragon" trait?
The only traits and relics on display are the "triarch" dynasties.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
The thing I miss about the old C'tan was that they were the anti-thesis to Chaos.

On one hand, you have the Chaos Gods, who are metaphysical representations of raw emotion and change.

On the other hand, you have the C'tan, who are physical incarnations of the very forces of the material world.

Both of which are cruel, uncaring entities who drive any mortal they meet to madness, but they represent two entirely different concepts and forces.

If the chaos gods are Chaotic Evil, then the C'tan are Lawful Evil. I miss that dichotomy between the Oldcrons and Chaos. You don't really have it now.

Also agree with this wholeheartedly. Chaos gods were still stuck in the Warp, too. The C'tan were, practically speaking, actual gods existing in the material plane.

I also really miss the Necron specialty of having weapons that ignore invulnerable saves. Seems like everyone else is better at producing Mortal Wounds now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I miss the lovecraftian vibe that oldcrons had. That's missing now from Warhammer 40k.

And before anyone says "BUT MUH TYRANIDS": They're not really lovecraftian. The whole point of lovecraft was madness and cosmic horror from beings that could barely perceive you. The Tyranids absolutely perceive you (including getting shot off your world in some cases), don't really cause madness (GSC can break social order, but studying the Tyranids doesn't drive individual academics off the deep end), and are basically just hive-mind predators. Not really a "cosmic horror."

Meanwhile, the Old C'tan barely perceived humans as different from eldar, orks, whatever. They were all food, like motes of dust to be hoovered up for sustenance. The Nightbringer was the cause of the "Grim Reaper" in the minds of the living races, Death with his Scythe, implying a great horror from beyond the stars that could be worshipped as a god. Studying the Necrons drove Imperial historians and philosophers to madness; the former Imperial archaeologist "Thomas" in Dawn of War: Dark Crusade becomes what is essentially a lovecraftian cultist after being driven mad from unearthing a tomb. The Necrons, obligingly, turn them into a pariah to serve them.

Then there was the old Lovecraftian themes like the poems and prophecies of the Eldar, that talked of the return of "The Outsider" and "Vaul-Moons" and other cryptic things, much in the way Cassilda's Song speaks cryptically of the King in Yellow...

.... bah. We need more lovecraft in 40k, and changing necrons utterly killed it.

I want to build a King in Yellow army now. And I can't.

Well said.

I disliked some of the shoehorning of the C'tan into the background, but damn were they awesome villains. Plus the idea that the Necrons only served as a conduit for the C'tan to feed on the "life-force" of intelligent life was epic. Despite the fact that, yes, technically you can still field Necrons who worship the C'tan, the gravitas behind it has been greatly reduced.

You know, people keep saying you can still have old style necrons and C'tan worshippers, but you never see it. Its barely mentioned in the fluff and no trait supports that. Where's my "Empire of the Severed" trait? Where's my "Cult of the Void Dragon" trait?
The only traits and relics on display are the "triarch" dynasties.

Right? That's why I say "technically".

It would go a long way for some of us if GW released some more material to reinforce that idea.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Newcrons by a country mile.

Prior to this, they themselves had no character. And the tabletop rules for C'Tan made them seem daft.

The Newcrons however have agency all their own.

And the best bit? Absolutely the best bit? None of the Newcron background actually erases the original. Not when you consider The Deceiver could have quite easily programmed in a 'we killed the C'Tan' fantasy into each and every one of the Necrons during bio-transference.

That's my head canon.

However, the nerfing of Necron FTl, spatial scope and industrial might bothers me quite a bit.

I have very strong feeling on this. To the point that I quit the hobby entirely when the 5th edition codex came out. We waited a decade for Matt Ward to take a gak down our throats and tell us it's chocolate.

I came back shortly before 8th released but I'm still not happy, I just choose to ignore the new fluff and pretend the models I hate simply don't exist. The first codex was brilliant because it was told from the perspective of the Imperium. It was a masterpeice of terror and dread and the artwork and rules reflected that. I know a lot of people liked Necrons for their goofyness, the terminator references etc. I like them because of the existential horror.

No other faction has been so heavily retconned. It's really sad. The alteration to the war in heaven fluff actually makes me angry. The C'tan were handled badly, the Lord characters are unnecessary and dumb, they removed Pariahs entirely (the only unit in modern 40k to ever be deleted?) which is such a shame because the fluff potential their was massive. Yes Necrons needed to be fleshed out, but they went in completely the wrong direction

Model-wise they utterly fethed up with the Ward codex. The Arks, the Barges, the named characters all look ridiculous. The rest of the stuff is hit and miss and they managed to give flayed ones gak new sculpts as well as cast them in resin - double feth up, wow! The only thing I like about newcrons are the Canoptek units. The Spiders, centipedes and Wraiths models look great and the AI servitor drone fluff works, because it was already there from the old codex.

/rant

Cynista wrote:
I have very strong feeling on this. To the point that I quit the hobby entirely when the 5th edition codex came out. We waited a decade for Matt Ward to take a gak down our throats and tell us it's chocolate.

I came back shortly before 8th released but I'm still not happy, I just choose to ignore the new fluff and pretend the models I hate simply don't exist. The first codex was brilliant because it was told from the perspective of the Imperium. It was a masterpeice of terror and dread and the artwork and rules reflected that. I know a lot of people liked Necrons for their goofyness, the terminator references etc. I like them because of the existential horror.

No other faction has been so heavily retconned. It's really sad. The alteration to the war in heaven fluff actually makes me angry. The C'tan were handled badly, the Lord characters are unnecessary and dumb, they removed Pariahs entirely (the only unit in modern 40k to ever be deleted?) which is such a shame because the fluff potential their was massive.

/rant

Original 40k had imperial suicide bombers, human bombs, who fit the imperial background and fluff quite nicely. They were deleted totally for political reasons, I've heard. Peolle thought it was a tribute to real world suicide bombers. So they we're forced to drop them. Which is a pity, frankly as horrible as life n the imperium is i'm surprised they don't have billions of peolle willing to buy a ticket out of it so the idea of fanatical suicide bombers attacking in waves is sure in line with the fluff.

Here's a link to an article showing the old stats for human bombs, now vastly out of date.

https://www.dicesaloon.com/articles/oldhammer-40-tales-of-old-lead-and-childhood-dreams

 Techpriestsupport wrote:

Cynista wrote:
I have very strong feeling on this. To the point that I quit the hobby entirely when the 5th edition codex came out. We waited a decade for Matt Ward to take a gak down our throats and tell us it's chocolate.

I came back shortly before 8th released but I'm still not happy, I just choose to ignore the new fluff and pretend the models I hate simply don't exist. The first codex was brilliant because it was told from the perspective of the Imperium. It was a masterpeice of terror and dread and the artwork and rules reflected that. I know a lot of people liked Necrons for their goofyness, the terminator references etc. I like them because of the existential horror.

No other faction has been so heavily retconned. It's really sad. The alteration to the war in heaven fluff actually makes me angry. The C'tan were handled badly, the Lord characters are unnecessary and dumb, they removed Pariahs entirely (the only unit in modern 40k to ever be deleted?) which is such a shame because the fluff potential their was massive.

/rant

Original 40k had imperial suicide bombers, human bombs, who fit the imperial background and fluff quite nicely. They were deleted totally for political reasons, I've heard. Peolle thought it was a tribute to real world suicide bombers. So they we're forced to drop them. Which is a pity, frankly as horrible as life n the imperium is i'm surprised they don't have billions of peolle willing to buy a ticket out of it so the idea of fanatical suicide bombers attacking in waves is sure in line with the fluff.

Here's a link to an article showing the old stats for human bombs, now vastly out of date.

https://www.dicesaloon.com/articles/oldhammer-40-tales-of-old-lead-and-childhood-dreams

So Necrons were retconned because of a real fear of a Cthulu-robot takeover?

I don't really understand the post.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Techpriestsupport wrote:

Cynista wrote:
I have very strong feeling on this. To the point that I quit the hobby entirely when the 5th edition codex came out. We waited a decade for Matt Ward to take a gak down our throats and tell us it's chocolate.

I came back shortly before 8th released but I'm still not happy, I just choose to ignore the new fluff and pretend the models I hate simply don't exist. The first codex was brilliant because it was told from the perspective of the Imperium. It was a masterpeice of terror and dread and the artwork and rules reflected that. I know a lot of people liked Necrons for their goofyness, the terminator references etc. I like them because of the existential horror.

No other faction has been so heavily retconned. It's really sad. The alteration to the war in heaven fluff actually makes me angry. The C'tan were handled badly, the Lord characters are unnecessary and dumb, they removed Pariahs entirely (the only unit in modern 40k to ever be deleted?) which is such a shame because the fluff potential their was massive.

/rant

Original 40k had imperial suicide bombers, human bombs, who fit the imperial background and fluff quite nicely. They were deleted totally for political reasons, I've heard. Peolle thought it was a tribute to real world suicide bombers. So they we're forced to drop them. Which is a pity, frankly as horrible as life n the imperium is i'm surprised they don't have billions of peolle willing to buy a ticket out of it so the idea of fanatical suicide bombers attacking in waves is sure in line with the fluff.

Here's a link to an article showing the old stats for human bombs, now vastly out of date.

https://www.dicesaloon.com/articles/oldhammer-40-tales-of-old-lead-and-childhood-dreams

So Necrons were retconned because of a real fear of a Cthulu-robot takeover?

I don't really understand the post.

I think he's responding to the claim that Necrons were the only faction that was heavily retconned.
The problem with his example is that that was just one aspect that was removed from the Imperial fluff. It ultimately didn't change anything. Its not as if it completely altered the feel and history of the faction, like what happened with necrons.

In a sense the necrons now are in a state of horror. They know they've been screwed badly, and are "soulless machines" but still retain some emotions and the sense of loss they we're stuck with.

I get what they were going for with the NewCron fluff. They wanted to give them more personality than "mindless machines EXTERMINATE" and that's fair enough. I have a soft spot for them actually having Lords who are affable and not just up for killing everything just because.

On the other hand, they almost come across as a bit too human. Worse than that, they're too obviously Tomb Kings... IN SPACE! 40k has it's caricatures of cultures, but that's mostly kept to the Imperium - where it 'kind of' fits - but it just feels a bit too blatant with the NewCrons.