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What are the thoughts on the Venomcrawler?

At 130p he is quite cheap(ish).

With all the new Chaos releases and Primaris coming I think we'll see Codex CSM and Codex SM 2.0 this year. Maybe even relatively soon...?

Waaaghbert wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I don't know defilers hitting on 3+ and maulers seem very nice.
To bad dakka versions didn't get anything out of it.

Am I reading this wrong? The +1 to hit rolls counts for shooting as well, doesn't it?

My bad i read it wrong.

We might see dakka daemon engines becoming usefull!?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Causalis wrote:
What are the thoughts on the Venomcrawler?

At 130p he is quite cheap(ish).

With all the new Chaos releases and Primaris coming I think we'll see Codex CSM and Codex SM 2.0 this year. Maybe even relatively soon...?

Get a defiler instead?
Not much more expensive but overall alot tougher and more guns /.attacks no?

Waaaghbert wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I don't know defilers hitting on 3+ and maulers seem very nice.
To bad dakka versions didn't get anything out of it.

Am I reading this wrong? The +1 to hit rolls counts for shooting as well, doesn't it?

Looks like.
The new guy is probably pointed for combat so hanging back will be unappetizing.. but could get an enhanced round of shooting off.

Not Online!!! wrote:
We might see dakka daemon engines becoming usefull!?

Maybe, if this guy has 9 wounds and not 10... Otherwise he'll get targeted first and the whole "daemon engines" list concept once again crumbles...

 Nym wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
We might see dakka daemon engines becoming usefull!?

Maybe, if this guy has 9 wounds and not 10... Otherwise he'll get targeted first and the whole "daemon engines" list concept once again crumbles...

He is based supposedly upon a Maulerfiend.

I'm really pumped about this guy, I've been waiting for a proper daemon engine HQ for so long.
Size wise, he's definitely smaller than a mauler, so I sure hope he's sub 10wounds.

Bumping venom crawlers up to BS3 while they can move and shoot their assault guns makes them a lot more appealing as moving fire-support. They also explode easier, which is fun for cramming them into combat!
Defilers are still better point-for-point, but their guns are mostly afterthoughts. I'll take both though.

 McGibs wrote:
I'm really pumped about this guy, I've been waiting for a proper daemon engine HQ for so long.
Size wise, he's definitely smaller than a mauler, so I sure hope he's sub 10wounds.

Bumping venom crawlers up to BS3 while they can move and shoot their assault guns makes them a lot more appealing as moving fire-support. They also explode easier, which is fun for cramming them into combat!
Defilers are still better point-for-point, but their guns are mostly afterthoughts. I'll take both though.

Maybee the WB trait will become the new daemon engine trait?
Double that aura and you can cover a big radious for them.

I’m quite excited to try a new variation on a dark mechanicus with all these options. Its been a favorite theme of mine for chaos armies for a while. The new HQ in particular has caught my interest, as it seems to have the sort of abilities lists are built around, though if it crosses the 10 wound threshold it’ll likely end up sitting in my shelf.

Obliterators are also now reaching the point I don’t feel as if they underperform compared to terminator deepstrikes, and I’m curious if anyone will use the single oblit option this edition, given the reasons for doing so in the last have largely been eliminated.

I am also unsure what the Venomcrawler offers that other daemon engines don’t. The ability to shoot and move with taking an Accuracy hit I suppose, but maulerfiends seem to simply be better once they get in melee, which is where you seem want both to eventually end up. Depends on the pricing for the total package I suppose, if some of the rumored costs include the price of both guns I can definitely see way more uses, but I’ve yet to actually see a source on those.

All the online reviews seem to indicate that the crawlers are 130pts, weapons included.
I think they'll hit a good middleground between mauler and forgefiend. Everything is a bit of a tradeoff between all the engines:
Defilers: Durable as hell, and hits like a truck, but lackluster shooting (also expensive by an inch)
Maulers: Good anti-horde/elite, and speed, but degrades in pretty terrible ways (speed and strength). Can easily get caught out of position with nothing to do.
Forgefiends: Decent shooting (now, with some buffs) but not mobile or choppy.
Heldrakes: Fast as hell, but weak damage output.
Venom Crawler: Smack dab in the middleground. It's fast, it's choppy and shooty enough (and can move and shoot accuratly), it's still got decent durability (more than dreads), and it's got some extra special gimicks (summoning, better exploding, extra healing).
Comparitivly, I think the crawler is a nice jack of all trades soldier. It's not a specialist, but it's also not any more expensive, and it's damage output seems perfectly capable of tackling most targets (unlike something like a heldrake).

Captyn_Bob wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I don't know defilers hitting on 3+ and maulers seem very nice.
To bad dakka versions didn't get anything out of it.

Am I reading this wrong? The +1 to hit rolls counts for shooting as well, doesn't it?

Looks like.
The new guy is probably pointed for combat so hanging back will be unappetizing.. but could get an enhanced round of shooting off.

If his CC stats are decent he'll make a good counter charge unit if somebody tries to get close and tie up your engines in close combat.

Daemon Engine shooting could actually be good now. Daemonforge + the buff from this guy will be very nice. Don't have my book in front of me but can a Slaanesh-marked Daemon Engine use Endless Cacophony, or is that infantry and bikes only?

 Nym wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
We might see dakka daemon engines becoming usefull!?

Maybe, if this guy has 9 wounds and not 10... Otherwise he'll get targeted first and the whole "daemon engines" list concept once again crumbles...

He'll have an Invul and if we are that concerned, there's Slaanesh + Agonies.

It'll be about threat saturation though. I posted this in the rumors thread, but I'm thinking:
1. Alpha Battalion with this new dude, Biker Lord, and 3 Maulerfiends and/or Blood Slaughterers
2. Spearhead with either just Abigail or one of the new guys + a Lord (or still Abigail) backing up 3 Forgefiends and/or Decimators

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I don't know defilers hitting on 3+ and maulers seem very nice.
To bad dakka versions didn't get anything out of it.

Am I reading this wrong? The +1 to hit rolls counts for shooting as well, doesn't it?

Looks like.
The new guy is probably pointed for combat so hanging back will be unappetizing.. but could get an enhanced round of shooting off.

If his CC stats are decent he'll make a good counter charge unit if somebody tries to get close and tie up your engines in close combat.

Daemon Engine shooting could actually be good now. Daemonforge + the buff from this guy will be very nice. Don't have my book in front of me but can a Slaanesh-marked Daemon Engine use Endless Cacophony, or is that infantry and bikes only?

Infantry only


The viability of the new guy is completely dependent on his wounds count. Under ten, and he’s great. Ten or more, he’s pointless.

New guy would be viable if over ten wounds, but can pass hits/wounds off to Daemon Engines.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
New guy would be viable if over ten wounds, but can pass hits/wounds off to Daemon Engines.

No he wouldn't then, because hurt daemonengines are like daemon engines without his aura.


On the other hand i just realized that decimators would gain bs 2+

He's fine at over 10 wounds depending on cost and his durability. It's silly to say otherwise. Plenty of things in my army are amazing and can be targeted.

If he is under 10 wounds he's going to questionable stats. That's a 5 wounds HQ on a DE back, so you guys think that DE is a 4 wound model? Besides there is already a winged demon prince for that.

I personally think it's plain lazy design and silly seeing monstrous or vehicle classed models that can not be targeted. I'd be fine with a more durable model.

None of his auras are that amazing so far, so if he has a decent invuln and probably regenerates then I honestly don't care if he attracts fire. They have to shoot something, sometimes it's better saturating them with targets.

It's hard to see this dude replacing a DA and Exalted champ for buffing combat engines anyway. Honestly his +1 to hit is kind of meh. Butcher canon contemptors are already cheaper then decimators lol, why would you spend even more to make a decimator shoot like an already cheaper contemptor? It's even worse on a forge fiend who at this point needs a total rewrite. Hades auto canons had better bump up to heavy 6 in the next codex because that thing is a mess.

The model he has the most synergy with is the new venom crawler, which shouldn't be a surprise.

Well I don't play forgeworld so I don't have certain daemon engine options. I do have a forgefiend I havent used for the longest time and I would love it if it could be usable again.

The aura makes a forgefiend 3+ BS and that is great. i don't see how it doesn't help a forgefiend.

 Red Corsair wrote:
He's fine at over 10 wounds depending on cost and his durability. It's silly to say otherwise. Plenty of things in my army are amazing and can be targeted.

If he is under 10 wounds he's going to questionable stats. That's a 5 wounds HQ on a DE back, so you guys think that DE is a 4 wound model? Besides there is already a winged demon prince for that.

I personally think it's plain lazy design and silly seeing monstrous or vehicle classed models that can not be targeted. I'd be fine with a more durable model.

None of his auras are that amazing so far, so if he has a decent invuln and probably regenerates then I honestly don't care if he attracts fire. They have to shoot something, sometimes it's better saturating them with targets.

It's hard to see this dude replacing a DA and Exalted champ for buffing combat engines anyway. Honestly his +1 to hit is kind of meh. Butcher canon contemptors are already cheaper then decimators lol, why would you spend even more to make a decimator shoot like an already cheaper contemptor? It's even worse on a forge fiend who at this point needs a total rewrite. Hades auto canons had better bump up to heavy 6 in the next codex because that thing is a mess.

The model he has the most synergy with is the new venom crawler, which shouldn't be a surprise.

Two things to keep in mind:
1. His aura is strictly better than the Lord's, so the two in tandem makes sense
2. Dark Apostles and Champs can't actually keep up with the melee Engines, and obviously they're useless for the shooting ones.

The base of that new Lord of Discordant looks quite large. We could fit a fair number of daemon engines within a 6 inch bubble due to its large base if you ask me. It even comes with a possibility of using an autocannon if you plan to sit it with ranged shooting daemon engines.

Combine it with a master of possession and a warp smith, and you get a HQ centre giving out potentially:

1) Reroll 1 to hit and to wound (MOP psychic)
2) 4+ invul (MOP psychic cursed earth)
3) warp smith can can repair. (and a psychic from MOP can heal 3 at the cost of 1 hp to the warpsmith)
4) The Lord of DIscordant giving +1 to hit

So shooty daemon Engines (non forgeworld) include lascannon Defiler with havoc launchers, forgefiend and lord of skulls.

So, put surround that HQ core with 3 forgefiends in front, 3 defilers at the back, and a lord of skulls. It won't be the shootiest army out there, but it will shoot enough. More importantly, its a pretty resilient army, and if anything gets injured, you have the warpsmith and infernal regeneration and even that psychic to heal in a pinch.

And stuff that tries to get into melee with this mass shooty daemon engine death ball won't have a very good time... not just because the lord of discordant looks to be swinging a mean weapon. But three defilers, and a lord of skulls are enough to give even a knight gallant problems.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
The base of that new Lord of Discordant looks quite large. We could fit a fair number of daemon engines within a 6 inch bubble due to its large base if you ask me. It even comes with a possibility of using an autocannon if you plan to sit it with ranged shooting daemon engines.

Combine it with a master of possession and a warp smith, and you get a HQ centre giving out potentially:

1) Reroll 1 to hit and to wound (MOP psychic)
2) 4+ invul (MOP psychic cursed earth)
3) warp smith can can repair. (and a psychic from MOP can heal 3 at the cost of 1 hp to the warpsmith)
4) The Lord of DIscordant giving +1 to hit

So shooty daemon Engines (non forgeworld) include lascannon Defiler with havoc launchers, forgefiend and lord of skulls.

So, put surround that HQ core with 3 forgefiends in front, 3 defilers at the back, and a lord of skulls. It won't be the shootiest army out there, but it will shoot enough. More importantly, its a pretty resilient army, and if anything gets injured, you have the warpsmith and infernal regeneration and even that psychic to heal in a pinch.

And stuff that tries to get into melee with this mass shooty daemon engine death ball won't have a very good time... not just because the lord of discordant looks to be swinging a mean weapon. But three defilers, and a lord of skulls are enough to give even a knight gallant problems.

i'd personally replace the Warpsmith with a regular lord in case you roll badly on the MoP, but yes that could work.

Warpsmiths are super cheap though. You can probably manage to squeeze one in without losing anything.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Warpsmiths are super cheap though. You can probably manage to squeeze one in without losing anything.

also true and potentially feed from him for the heal power, for double heals.
That said hitting on 3's and rerolling 1's makes this quite a fun little deathball.
IF the price is right for the new spiderrider

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
He's fine at over 10 wounds depending on cost and his durability. It's silly to say otherwise. Plenty of things in my army are amazing and can be targeted.

If he is under 10 wounds he's going to questionable stats. That's a 5 wounds HQ on a DE back, so you guys think that DE is a 4 wound model? Besides there is already a winged demon prince for that.

I personally think it's plain lazy design and silly seeing monstrous or vehicle classed models that can not be targeted. I'd be fine with a more durable model.

None of his auras are that amazing so far, so if he has a decent invuln and probably regenerates then I honestly don't care if he attracts fire. They have to shoot something, sometimes it's better saturating them with targets.

It's hard to see this dude replacing a DA and Exalted champ for buffing combat engines anyway. Honestly his +1 to hit is kind of meh. Butcher canon contemptors are already cheaper then decimators lol, why would you spend even more to make a decimator shoot like an already cheaper contemptor? It's even worse on a forge fiend who at this point needs a total rewrite. Hades auto canons had better bump up to heavy 6 in the next codex because that thing is a mess.

The model he has the most synergy with is the new venom crawler, which shouldn't be a surprise.

Two things to keep in mind:
1. His aura is strictly better than the Lord's, so the two in tandem makes sense
2. Dark Apostles and Champs can't actually keep up with the melee Engines, and obviously they're useless for the shooting ones.

1. Sure, but that's a shed load of points to fix shooters, which was my point. He wants to move forward, so he should be with those engines. I just don't see the point in taking garbage ranged DE's over a cheaper contemptor when you need this guy to baby sit as well.

2. I still like DA and exalted champ better, I am having fun with termites though, so I understand why it's harder if your not, but it still isn't impossible. Start them nearly level and advance with them, the 6" range and massive length of the DE's base makes up a lot of difference, won't help if your using warp time on a mauler, but I think the whole point of this guy is to move up in unison anyway.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
The base of that new Lord of Discordant looks quite large. We could fit a fair number of daemon engines within a 6 inch bubble due to its large base if you ask me. It even comes with a possibility of using an autocannon if you plan to sit it with ranged shooting daemon engines.

Combine it with a master of possession and a warp smith, and you get a HQ centre giving out potentially:

1) Reroll 1 to hit and to wound (MOP psychic)
2) 4+ invul (MOP psychic cursed earth)
3) warp smith can can repair. (and a psychic from MOP can heal 3 at the cost of 1 hp to the warpsmith)
4) The Lord of DIscordant giving +1 to hit

So shooty daemon Engines (non forgeworld) include lascannon Defiler with havoc launchers, forgefiend and lord of skulls.

So, put surround that HQ core with 3 forgefiends in front, 3 defilers at the back, and a lord of skulls. It won't be the shootiest army out there, but it will shoot enough. More importantly, its a pretty resilient army, and if anything gets injured, you have the warpsmith and infernal regeneration and even that psychic to heal in a pinch.

And stuff that tries to get into melee with this mass shooty daemon engine death ball won't have a very good time... not just because the lord of discordant looks to be swinging a mean weapon. But three defilers, and a lord of skulls are enough to give even a knight gallant problems.

You would be using a 90pt psycher + this new guys (x)pts to try to band aid patch a 148pt forge fiend.

A contemptor with twin butcher canons is 138 and already hits on 2's and a 70pt lord gets him reroll 1's.

I love my forge fiend conversions but they need a rewrite because even with their current cost they just don't really cut it.

GW broke my heart with the Khorne mower price hike lol. That dude needed to go down not up. He doesn't fit around terrain so sadly you use his shooting more then combat and he just doesn't compete with knights in that department.

Eldenfirefly doesn't play fw, as he has said in another thread so no contemptors for him.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
He's fine at over 10 wounds depending on cost and his durability. It's silly to say otherwise. Plenty of things in my army are amazing and can be targeted.

If he is under 10 wounds he's going to questionable stats. That's a 5 wounds HQ on a DE back, so you guys think that DE is a 4 wound model? Besides there is already a winged demon prince for that.

I personally think it's plain lazy design and silly seeing monstrous or vehicle classed models that can not be targeted. I'd be fine with a more durable model.

None of his auras are that amazing so far, so if he has a decent invuln and probably regenerates then I honestly don't care if he attracts fire. They have to shoot something, sometimes it's better saturating them with targets.

It's hard to see this dude replacing a DA and Exalted champ for buffing combat engines anyway. Honestly his +1 to hit is kind of meh. Butcher canon contemptors are already cheaper then decimators lol, why would you spend even more to make a decimator shoot like an already cheaper contemptor? It's even worse on a forge fiend who at this point needs a total rewrite. Hades auto canons had better bump up to heavy 6 in the next codex because that thing is a mess.

The model he has the most synergy with is the new venom crawler, which shouldn't be a surprise.

Two things to keep in mind:
1. His aura is strictly better than the Lord's, so the two in tandem makes sense
2. Dark Apostles and Champs can't actually keep up with the melee Engines, and obviously they're useless for the shooting ones.

1. Sure, but that's a shed load of points to fix shooters, which was my point. He wants to move forward, so he should be with those engines. I just don't see the point in taking garbage ranged DE's over a cheaper contemptor when you need this guy to baby sit as well.

2. I still like DA and exalted champ better, I am having fun with termites though, so I understand why it's harder if your not, but it still isn't impossible. Start them nearly level and advance with them, the 6" range and massive length of the DE's base makes up a lot of difference, won't help if your using warp time on a mauler, but I think the whole point of this guy is to move up in unison anyway.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
The base of that new Lord of Discordant looks quite large. We could fit a fair number of daemon engines within a 6 inch bubble due to its large base if you ask me. It even comes with a possibility of using an autocannon if you plan to sit it with ranged shooting daemon engines.

Combine it with a master of possession and a warp smith, and you get a HQ centre giving out potentially:

1) Reroll 1 to hit and to wound (MOP psychic)
2) 4+ invul (MOP psychic cursed earth)
3) warp smith can can repair. (and a psychic from MOP can heal 3 at the cost of 1 hp to the warpsmith)
4) The Lord of DIscordant giving +1 to hit

So shooty daemon Engines (non forgeworld) include lascannon Defiler with havoc launchers, forgefiend and lord of skulls.

So, put surround that HQ core with 3 forgefiends in front, 3 defilers at the back, and a lord of skulls. It won't be the shootiest army out there, but it will shoot enough. More importantly, its a pretty resilient army, and if anything gets injured, you have the warpsmith and infernal regeneration and even that psychic to heal in a pinch.

And stuff that tries to get into melee with this mass shooty daemon engine death ball won't have a very good time... not just because the lord of discordant looks to be swinging a mean weapon. But three defilers, and a lord of skulls are enough to give even a knight gallant problems.

You would be using a 90pt psycher + this new guys (x)pts to try to band aid patch a 148pt forge fiend.

A contemptor with twin butcher canons is 138 and already hits on 2's and a 70pt lord gets him reroll 1's.

I love my forge fiend conversions but they need a rewrite because even with their current cost they just don't really cut it.

GW broke my heart with the Khorne mower price hike lol. That dude needed to go down not up. He doesn't fit around terrain so sadly you use his shooting more then combat and he just doesn't compete with knights in that department.

You're really suggesting using a 140 point model to transport those though, so that's more points on top of what's already an expensive list. Of course you can load it up with extra stuff, but at that point it isn't focused and it'll be relatively easy to take out. Meanwhile, the new dude and Biker Lord don't need any additional help.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Warpsmiths are super cheap though. You can probably manage to squeeze one in without losing anything.

also true and potentially feed from him for the heal power, for double heals.
That said hitting on 3's and rerolling 1's makes this quite a fun little deathball.
IF the price is right for the new spiderrider

Hmm, combo Iron Warriors relic to heal those taken off wounds?
Then Warlord Trait for Abigail-lite?

I actually would've taken WB for the trait, that would give a 12 inche aura for spiderrider if he is indeed 9 w.

That said an Abi lite with rechargable w is a great idea for a daemon dakka Castle and if you also field a cultist blob you get a surprise last Minute ob Grab.

I'd do Word Bearers if I were doing the summoning castle instead.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'd do Word Bearers if I were doing the summoning castle instead.

Well nothing stopping you in such a Castle to summon, considering that you will field a MoP and a warpsmith plus this one, i'd imagine you could summon one or the other Daemon no?
Also daemon engines do have marks right?

I like the Warlord trait don't get me wrong, but it still stings we can't get full rerolls like Black Templars can. It'll cost them a bunch of CP, but they make an effective castle.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I like the Warlord trait don't get me wrong, but it still stings we can't get full rerolls like Black Templars can. It'll cost them a bunch of CP, but they make an effective castle.

I would fully recommend IW though if GW pulls their Fingers out where the Sun don't shine and spread the traits/ give us traits for vehicles.

The Lord Discordant doesn't look much bigger than a lord on a Juggernaut and those guys are only 7 wounds so I can't imagine they're 10+.