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So quick scenario: 20 strong alpha legion possessed unit, starts off the game with a nurgle tree by them. 40 wounds guarded by -1 to hit 1+ saves. Even if you lose first turn that will be hard to shift. Starting on your turn give them another -1 to be hit from a nurgle spell, -1 to be hit from dark apostate....now they are immune to 4+ shooting and 3+ shooting hits them on 6s....

So now you have what makes all of the rest of it make sense: a walking wall of nearly invincible meat. Now you can foot slog all of those support characters behind them.

drakerocket wrote:
So quick scenario: 20 strong alpha legion possessed unit, starts off the game with a nurgle tree by them. 40 wounds guarded by -1 to hit 1+ saves. Even if you lose first turn that will be hard to shift. Starting on your turn give them another -1 to be hit from a nurgle spell, -1 to be hit from dark apostate....now they are immune to 4+ shooting and 3+ shooting hits them on 6s....

So now you have what makes all of the rest of it make sense: a walking wall of nearly invincible meat. Now you can foot slog all of those support characters behind them.

Well you can also spend some cp to move them up, get yourself also warptime and try to explain to your opponent wtf is going on.

Is this why all the CSM units feel so lackluster on their own? Because the playtesters looked at the theoretical power scaling with all the possible buffs stacked on a single unit and just designed every unit with the assumption that we will be buffing them to oblivion?

"Of course the Forgefiend has BS 4+ and doesn't ignore moving and shooting heavy weapons penalty, who isn't going to cast prescience and daemonforge on them and have abaddon babysitting them at all times?"

 Continuity wrote:
Is this why all the CSM units feel so lackluster on their own? Because the playtesters looked at the theoretical power scaling with all the possible buffs stacked on a single unit and just designed every unit with the assumption that we will be buffing them to oblivion?

"Of course the Forgefiend has BS 4+ and doesn't ignore moving and shooting heavy weapons penalty, who isn't going to cast prescience and daemonforge on them and have abaddon babysitting them at all times?"

Probably and we are not alone in that, loyalists suffer from the same with gman and callgar.
It's why equipment for us is atleast Partly so expensive.

 Continuity wrote:
Is this why all the CSM units feel so lackluster on their own? Because the playtesters looked at the theoretical power scaling with all the possible buffs stacked on a single unit and just designed every unit with the assumption that we will be buffing them to oblivion?

"Of course the Forgefiend has BS 4+ and doesn't ignore moving and shooting heavy weapons penalty, who isn't going to cast prescience and daemonforge on them and have abaddon babysitting them at all times?"

Bingo. Most other armies were priced on their own unit merits.

Not Online!!! wrote:

drakerocket wrote:


In other news Dark Apostate just became one of our best HQs if he stays reasonably priced.

-1 to hit prayer.

+ miasma

+ al trait = -3 to hit marines.

(I excluded cultists mostly due to Mere Mortals)

Two at -2 isn't bad either.

Not Online!!! wrote:

drakerocket wrote:


In other news Dark Apostate just became one of our best HQs if he stays reasonably priced.

-1 to hit prayer.

+ miasma

+ al trait = -3 to hit marines.

(I excluded cultists mostly due to Mere Mortals)

Don't forget The Voice of Lorgar or the one Cloak relic

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

drakerocket wrote:


In other news Dark Apostate just became one of our best HQs if he stays reasonably priced.

-1 to hit prayer.

+ miasma

+ al trait = -3 to hit marines.

(I excluded cultists mostly due to Mere Mortals)

Two at -2 isn't bad either.

I mean yep, one can only imagine how ridicoulus plague marines would get though.


-3 to hit, t5 5+FNP.

So, I never believed I would ever say this... but has GW actually managed to make possessed viable now?

Or better when Al still can give cultists their trait.
-3 to hit cultists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
So, I never believed I would ever say this... but has GW actually managed to make possessed viable now?

But only if you soup in a daemon detachment.

Meeh.
I guess in a way yes but there are still other, better options imo.

err, why would we even need to soup in a daemon detachment? Misama of pestilence is spell that any Nurgle sorceror can get. And any CSM army can run Dark Apostles. And after facing all the shenanigons that Imperium soup dishes out, souping in daemons would not faze me in the slightest.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
err, why would we even need to soup in a daemon detachment? Misama of pestilence is spell that any Nurgle sorceror can get. And any CSM army can run Dark Apostles. And after facing all the shenanigons that Imperium soup dishes out, souping in daemons would not faze me in the slightest.

Mostly because the suggestion before was with the tree.

I am intrigued by your position, not considering Fw but beeing perfectly fine with soup.

Also not any nurgle sorcerer can get the miasma, only sorceres with the correct discipline can get them, MoP can't.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
err, why would we even need to soup in a daemon detachment? Misama of pestilence is spell that any Nurgle sorceror can get. And any CSM army can run Dark Apostles. And after facing all the shenanigons that Imperium soup dishes out, souping in daemons would not faze me in the slightest.

Mostly because the suggestion before was with the tree.

I am intrigued by your position, not considering Fw but beeing perfectly fine with soup.

Also not any nurgle sorcerer can get the miasma, only sorceres with the correct discipline can get them, MoP can't.

You should be able to give MoP miasma if you give him mark of nurgle and use chaos familiar strat unless Im missing something

Edit: Just read through the book, you seem to be right. The mark spells doesn't seem to be a part of any discipline even if they exist in other disciplines.

Gidun wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
err, why would we even need to soup in a daemon detachment? Misama of pestilence is spell that any Nurgle sorceror can get. And any CSM army can run Dark Apostles. And after facing all the shenanigons that Imperium soup dishes out, souping in daemons would not faze me in the slightest.

Mostly because the suggestion before was with the tree.

I am intrigued by your position, not considering Fw but beeing perfectly fine with soup.

Also not any nurgle sorcerer can get the miasma, only sorceres with the correct discipline can get them, MoP can't.

You should be able to give MoP miasma if you give him mark of nurgle and use chaos familiar strat unless Im missing something

Edit: Just read through the book, you seem to be right. The mark spells doesn't seem to be a part of any discipline even if they exist in other disciplines.

No the mark spells are part of the regular csm discipline, just having an additional condition.
The MoP so far we know has no access to this discipline making it impossible for him to be taken.
Also 1 sorc 1 MoP alone for 1 squad to make it useable is quite the steep requirement imo.

Lol where's that bloke who was complaining about DAs being nerfed. Undeniable, first-turn agnostic -1 to hit on friendly units within 6? Yes please.

Only downside is how do I choose which HQs to bring!

Not Online!!! wrote:

Gidun wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
err, why would we even need to soup in a daemon detachment? Misama of pestilence is spell that any Nurgle sorceror can get. And any CSM army can run Dark Apostles. And after facing all the shenanigons that Imperium soup dishes out, souping in daemons would not faze me in the slightest.

Mostly because the suggestion before was with the tree.

I am intrigued by your position, not considering Fw but beeing perfectly fine with soup.

Also not any nurgle sorcerer can get the miasma, only sorceres with the correct discipline can get them, MoP can't.

You should be able to give MoP miasma if you give him mark of nurgle and use chaos familiar strat unless Im missing something

Edit: Just read through the book, you seem to be right. The mark spells doesn't seem to be a part of any discipline even if they exist in other disciplines.

No the mark spells are part of the regular csm discipline, just having an additional condition.
The MoP so far we know has no access to this discipline making it impossible for him to be taken.
Also 1 sorc 1 MoP alone for 1 squad to make it useable is quite the steep requirement imo.

By this manner the MoP absolutely has access to the dark hereticus discipline.
And by the wording of mark of chaos power it doesn't seem to be a part of the dark hereticus discipline, I can't tell if people play it this way though, since I didn't even think they might not be part of the dark hereticus discipline before reading the wording.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
err, why would we even need to soup in a daemon detachment? Misama of pestilence is spell that any Nurgle sorceror can get. And any CSM army can run Dark Apostles. And after facing all the shenanigons that Imperium soup dishes out, souping in daemons would not faze me in the slightest.

Mostly because the suggestion before was with the tree.

I am intrigued by your position, not considering Fw but beeing perfectly fine with soup.

Also not any nurgle sorcerer can get the miasma, only sorceres with the correct discipline can get them, MoP can't.

Well, true... But its not like if you bring a MOP and a Sorceror, they are wasted space. they are good for a lot more things than just one psychic each. My position on FW is simply because all the people I do play with don't use forgeworld. And previously, I also discovered that forgeworld likes to use resin while I vastly preferred plastic. That's all really. I could use FW, but why give my friends the excuse to say I won simply because I was using forgeworld while they weren't? Besides, I am not sure even if I did resort to forgeworld models, I would suddenly be able to beat them all the time.

saint_red wrote:
Lol where's that bloke who was complaining about DAs being nerfed. Undeniable, first-turn agnostic -1 to hit on friendly units within 6? Yes please.

Only downside is how do I choose which HQs to bring!

Well the pricetag decides imo, and the two dudes also cost probably pts so 2/3rd chance only that said the supreme command detachment does exist.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldenfirefly wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
err, why would we even need to soup in a daemon detachment? Misama of pestilence is spell that any Nurgle sorceror can get. And any CSM army can run Dark Apostles. And after facing all the shenanigons that Imperium soup dishes out, souping in daemons would not faze me in the slightest.

Mostly because the suggestion before was with the tree.

I am intrigued by your position, not considering Fw but beeing perfectly fine with soup.

Also not any nurgle sorcerer can get the miasma, only sorceres with the correct discipline can get them, MoP can't.

Well, true... But its not like if you bring a MOP and a Sorceror, they are wasted space. they are good for a lot more things than just one psychic each. My position on FW is simply because all the people I do play with don't use forgeworld. And previously, I also discovered that forgeworld likes to use resin while I vastly preferred plastic. That's all really. I could use FW, but why give my friends the excuse to say I won simply because I was using forgeworld while they weren't? Besides, I am not sure even if I did resort to forgeworld models, I would suddenly be able to beat them all the time.

You wouldn't fw Chaos stuff beyond some dreads is on the price point effectiveness scale of Meeh rather then neutral.

Not Online!!! wrote:

saint_red wrote:
You wouldn't fw Chaos stuff beyond some dreads is on the price point effectiveness scale of Meeh rather then neutral.

Exactly! So, why give them the satisfaction. lol

Gidun wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Gidun wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
err, why would we even need to soup in a daemon detachment? Misama of pestilence is spell that any Nurgle sorceror can get. And any CSM army can run Dark Apostles. And after facing all the shenanigons that Imperium soup dishes out, souping in daemons would not faze me in the slightest.

Mostly because the suggestion before was with the tree.

I am intrigued by your position, not considering Fw but beeing perfectly fine with soup.

Also not any nurgle sorcerer can get the miasma, only sorceres with the correct discipline can get them, MoP can't.

You should be able to give MoP miasma if you give him mark of nurgle and use chaos familiar strat unless Im missing something

Edit: Just read through the book, you seem to be right. The mark spells doesn't seem to be a part of any discipline even if they exist in other disciplines.

No the mark spells are part of the regular csm discipline, just having an additional condition.
The MoP so far we know has no access to this discipline making it impossible for him to be taken.
Also 1 sorc 1 MoP alone for 1 squad to make it useable is quite the steep requirement imo.

By this manner the MoP absolutely has access to the dark hereticus discipline.
And by the wording of mark of chaos power it doesn't seem to be a part of the dark hereticus discipline, I can't tell if people play it this way though, since I didn't even think they might not be part of the dark hereticus discipline before reading the wording.

That's a bit roundabout but it looks legal to me. What says you, BCB?

It does... though I am not sure why we want to do this. At this stage, we got so many nice psychic spells I don't see why we wouldn't want to go with a MOP and a sorceror unless we really absolutely have to. I have to admit though, our characters aren't cheap so we could end up spending too much on HQ choices.


BTW, stacking all these nurgle and -1 to hit stuff on Alpha legion Obliterators sound OP as well. The only thing is you sacrifice the chance to use cacophony. If you don't go nurgle and just stick to slanaash. You can still get the following on Obliterators.

1) Alpha legion -1 to hit
2) Dark Apostle prayer (-1 to hit) (Who else says he isn't good now)
3) In cover, +1 to save for a 1+ save.
4) MOP cursed earth for a 4++
5) 5+ FNP (because of delightful agonies)
6) T5 ... lol

And yes, on this you can spam cacophony every turn until they beg for mercy. lol

On the other hand, nurgle strategem can spend 2 CP to heal a nurgle unit d3 HP. Imagine after spending tons of effort to bring a 4W Obliterator down to 1W, and then you use 2 CP to heal it back to full health again... lol At that point, I think your opponent will refuse to play you anymore... lol And now we get to use even more CP! Luckily we can +3 CP from the spiky 17 now.

A little bit unrelated. For those of you fearing snipers and Vindicare. The Lord of skulls is a big model that is very good for blocking line of sight because its quite tall as well and its solid at the bottom too, unlike knights. So you can charge it up the field and have your master of possession follow behind safely tucked out of sight behind the huge bulk of the LOS, but still being able to cast the psychic cursed earth and infernal power. Plus LOS itself also benefits from those two spells.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
It does... though I am not sure why we want to do this. At this stage, we got so many nice psychic spells I don't see why we wouldn't want to go with a MOP and a sorceror unless we really absolutely have to. I have to admit though, our characters aren't cheap so we could end up spending too much on HQ choices.


BTW, stacking all these nurgle and -1 to hit stuff on Alpha legion Obliterators sound OP as well. The only thing is you sacrifice the chance to use cacophony. If you don't go nurgle and just stick to slanaash. You can still get the following on Obliterators.

1) Alpha legion -1 to hit
2) Dark Apostle prayer (-1 to hit) (Who else says he isn't good now)
3) In cover, +1 to save for a 1+ save.
4) MOP cursed earth for a 4++
5) 5+ FNP (because of delightful agonies)
6) T5 ... lol

And yes, on this you can spam cacophony every turn until they beg for mercy. lol

On the other hand, nurgle strategem can spend 2 CP to heal a nurgle unit d3 HP. Imagine after spending tons of effort to bring a 4W Obliterator down to 1W, and then you use 2 CP to heal it back to full health again... lol At that point, I think your opponent will refuse to play you anymore... lol And now we get to use even more CP! Luckily we can +3 CP from the spiky 17 now.

A little bit unrelated. For those of you fearing snipers and Vindicare. The Lord of skulls is a big model that is very good for blocking line of sight because its quite tall as well and its solid at the bottom too, unlike knights. So you can charge it up the field and have your master of possession follow behind safely tucked out of sight behind the huge bulk of the LOS, but still being able to cast the psychic cursed earth and infernal power. Plus LOS itself also benefits from those two spells.

You can also stick an infernal enrapturess near them, she can also deep strike, offer psychic protection and has a weapon with the same range that can prey upon the same targets as them. In addition she can also on a 6 revive an Obliterator which would be hilarious.

Not Online!!! wrote:

drakerocket wrote:


In other news Dark Apostate just became one of our best HQs if he stays reasonably priced.

-1 to hit prayer.

+ miasma

+ al trait = -3 to hit marines.

(I excluded cultists mostly due to Mere Mortals)

What is the source of the -1 to hit prayer ?? Maybe I missed it on WH community...

There is a picture I saw somewhere. It looks pretty legit though. It was the top card for a stack of cards of the new prayers.

I really do like all the optimism, but do we actually have any concrete evidence yet? That -1 to hit is nice, sure, but i still haven't found a picture of it anywhere.

Also keep in mind that if GW keeps pricing units based on possible synergy, the price tag for the DA is very unlikely to stay the same.

 VyRa wrote:
I really do like all the optimism, but do we actually have any concrete evidence yet? That -1 to hit is nice, sure, but i still haven't found a picture of it anywhere.

Also keep in mind that if GW keeps pricing units based on possible synergy, the price tag for the DA is very unlikely to stay the same.

Fully confirmed, it was posted in the N&R thread:

Unfluffy as it may be, Alpha Legion possessed with an DA and MoP are starting to look kinda sexy with this.

Thank you for the hint.

At that point you're reaching Aeldari levels of critical mass "cannot target this unit". Problem with it is that the unit needs to be Nurgle to get all of the bonuses, and I'm not sure if we have a unit worth dumping that much into that isn't Slaaneshi.

You wouldn't fw Chaos stuff beyond some dreads is on the price point effectiveness scale of Meeh rather then neutral.

Exactly! So, why give them the satisfaction. lol

Because you get exclusive Gloating rights if you win with a pure FW index army.

Yes i am petty, (not really, but when you literally pull a victory out of your may or may not mutated backside everytime you win it is rewawrding.)




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 VyRa wrote:
Unfluffy as it may be, Alpha Legion possessed with an DA and MoP are starting to look kinda sexy with this.

Thank you for the hint.

your average marine Squad looks kinda sexy with this, your average Khorne berzerker looks sexy with this. Basically all units that can be taken in big squads look sexy with this.

Also i feel like -3 is still quite insane, i do hope they rein that in personally, i don't want to see another nerf for AL.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Also i feel like -3 is still quite insane, i do hope they rein that in personally, i don't want to see another nerf for AL.

I feel like the nerf was more about denying a big alpha strike. If they're going to start nerfing -to hit modifiers they need to start with Aliatoc flyers that are -2 with no psychic or stratergems!