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stormcraft wrote:
So, im thinking about the Idea of Running a Lord Discordant with some Decimators in a Soulforged Hunting Pack, but im rather worried about his surviability. 12w T6 2+/5++ will die to anti tank weapons very very quickly, so whats the best way to survive turn 1? Black Legion Half DMG trait sounds pretty great but then you loose the +2move trait, alternatively you could stack AL -1 with a DA -1 prayer to -2 to hit?
Im afraid he will be quite a fire magnet....

Play two. They're basically the new maulerfiends. Replace your maulerfiends with these new guys and you're good to go. Bring a couple of other big targets along.

Heck, bring all of them. Two lord discordants or three, two maulerfiends, a defiler with scourge, two decimators. Maybe two new-spider-things if they're Elite. Add a MoP for that double healing and 4++ saves. Make the whole thing Alpha legion.


I can never understand the argument "it's going to die turn 1" This applies to anything in the game. anything will die turn 1 if the opponent devotes 2000 pts of shooting at it.So what, does that mean you won't be bringing any army at all?

 lindsay40k wrote:
Havocs can take RAC now?

My bad, they can't. That's what happens when you do not double-check things you read on the internet... Reaper Autocannon Havocs would have been too good I guess... :(

5 man CSM units with a reaper chaincannon clock at 85 pts per unit. Fill a troop slot, hang on an objective, have 8 str 5 shots and 6 str 4 shots with the new bolter drill. Doesn't sound half bad. Make them into the new hotness (red corsairs), add two chaos smash lords to fill in the battalion. Pow. 2 smash lords, lots of anti ifantry shooting, ObSec and 8 CP for sub 500 pts.

Anyone that has his hands on the book can confirm if any of the renegade chapters has any chaos mark limitations?

For example, are slannesh scourged, or khorne flawless host a possibility?

Unless I am mistaken, the Lord Discordant isn't going to get a legion benefit, unless I am reading it wrong?

But yeah, in general people are too caught up focusing on him as a character. He's not a character, he's a daemon engine.

If someone said "Hey look, we're more or less doubling the offensive output of maulerfiends and raising them by 20 points" people would think that was amazing. They did that and people worry about it being shot off the board.

Also worth noting a lot of anti-tank weapons are actually not ap -4. Sure, las cannons are, but dissie cannons aren't, many tau weapons aren't, lootas aren't, autocannon aren't, etc. Anything like that is going to be on a better save because 2+ actually matters a good bit. Further, he's going to be pretty capable of turn 1 charges in most builds. And if you lose turn 1, then your army is going to be a pretty good candidate for fortified positions; at that point he is a 1+ save, meaning all of the AP -3 weapons are going to be against a 4+ save. And they really do have to kill him; his capacity to heal is not inconsiderable.

topaxygouroun i wrote:
5 man CSM units with a reaper chaincannon clock at 85 pts per unit. Fill a troop slot, hang on an objective, have 8 str 5 shots and 6 str 4 shots with the new bolter drill. Doesn't sound half bad. Make them into the new hotness (red corsairs), add two chaos smash lords to fill in the battalion. Pow. 2 smash lords, lots of anti ifantry shooting, ObSec and 8 CP for sub 500 pts.

I'm still not convinced with smash lords as a competitive thing. We already have a fast dangerous and tough beatstick in daemon princes. The Blood Angels smash captains work so well because of the ammount of shenanigans their stratergems allow. At the minute they're 100+ points for 4 attacks hitting on 3+.

Although 3x5 red cosair csm with a reaper chaincannin is definately going to be more useful than whag we had 6 months ago.

 small_gods wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
5 man CSM units with a reaper chaincannon clock at 85 pts per unit. Fill a troop slot, hang on an objective, have 8 str 5 shots and 6 str 4 shots with the new bolter drill. Doesn't sound half bad. Make them into the new hotness (red corsairs), add two chaos smash lords to fill in the battalion. Pow. 2 smash lords, lots of anti ifantry shooting, ObSec and 8 CP for sub 500 pts.

I'm still not convinced with smash lords as a competitive thing. We already have a fast dangerous and tough beatstick in daemon princes. The Blood Angels smash captains work so well because of the ammount of shenanigans their stratergems allow. At the minute they're 100+ points for 4 attacks hitting on 3+.

Although 3x5 red cosair csm with a reaper chaincannin is definately going to be more useful than whag we had 6 months ago.

I posted this question a page back. With the Khorne fight twice Strategem, exalted champion warlord traits you can make a pretty good smash captain. Flawless host has a lot of potential as well against imperium getting a bananas amount of attacks potentially.

I think the big thing our smash captains lack are stormshields. 3++ to 4++ is a pretty big difference. Also, they have to compete with an elixir/diabolic strength prince, not very easy to do. How do you get a chaos smash captain to anything like 9 strength 10 ap -2 2 damage attacks?

drakerocket wrote:
I think the big thing our smash captains lack are stormshields. 3++ to 4++ is a pretty big difference. Also, they have to compete with an elixir/diabolic strength prince, not very easy to do. How do you get a chaos smash captain to anything like 9 strength 10 ap -2 2 damage attacks?

By being 80 pts cheaper. Essentially by taking two of them for every DP you field.

Is it perfect? Nope. Is it way better than any other use of chaos lords we had before? You betcha. I mean, you don't even have to play them as smash captains. You can have them as normal lords buffing your units around like it's just Tuesday, until the point where you get the option to jump 12" ahead and punch something in the face.

But don't forget, this is chaos. Don't enjoy your smash lords? Play sorcerers! Or dark apostles with the new sweet prayers. Or warpsmiths and keep healing stuff! the world is your oyster!

Alpha Legion still have the old standby Blade of the Hydra Lord. 4+d3 attacks on a 93-point model is no joke. He won't be killing Imperial Knights or anything like that by himself, but he'll do some damage against other similar characters. He's a lot cheaper than the Thunderhammer guy is why I mention him.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Alpha Legion still have the old standby Blade of the Hydra Lord. 4+d3 attacks on a 93-point model is no joke. He won't be killing Imperial Knights or anything like that by himself, but he'll do some damage against other similar characters. He's a lot cheaper than the Thunderhammer guy is why I mention him.

I have been playing an exalted sorc on disc with seer's bane before. A smash lord will be about 30-40 pts cheaper. Won't have access to spells, but will be equally efficient in close combat against a larger assortment of targets.

Okay, based on some comments from above, someone poke holes in this list:

Red Corsair Battalion
Huron Blackheart
Warpsmith (Stock)
CSMs x5 (trip plasma)
CSMs x5 (trip plasma)
CSMs x20 (Trip plasma)

Black Legion Spearhead
Abaddon the Despoiler
Chaos Predator (Quad las)
Chaos Predator (Quad las)
Chaos Predator (Quad las)
Helbrute (ML/TL)
Helbrute (ML/TL)

Comes in at 1734, leaving 266 for the Fortification in a 2000 point game. Thoughts?

 Nym wrote:
While everyone is trying to find some crazy comboes with our new rules, I think some things fly under the radar...

What's your opponion on this unit :

- 5 Raptors, 2 Plasmaguns and 1 Combi-plasma, 108pts. For 2CP (special detachment and strat), you can drop these guys anywhere, fire 6 re-rollable OC plasma shots. Bring 2 squads and do that on turn 2 and turn 3.

my opinion is that really... you should just take the lord with jump pack (that is reallllly good!) and just drop him at the same time as the raptors, thus saving you 2 CP? I mean it was already possible to do what you're describing, and even with prescience, reroll and whatnot, it wasn't that OP. Just.... okay.

Now, having a bunch of warp talon dropping turn 2 with +2 to their charge, preventing overwatch on the rest of your army, seems pretty good. It's not cheap, but it will really shine against eldar, AM and Tau unit. You could almost make a case for possessed to be good with that!

 Octopoid wrote:
Okay, based on some comments from above, someone poke holes in this list:

Red Corsair Battalion
Huron Blackheart
Warpsmith (Stock)
CSMs x5 (trip plasma)
CSMs x5 (trip plasma)
CSMs x20 (Trip plasma)

Black Legion Spearhead
Abaddon the Despoiler
Chaos Predator (Quad las)
Chaos Predator (Quad las)
Chaos Predator (Quad las)
Helbrute (ML/TL)
Helbrute (ML/TL)

Comes in at 1734, leaving 266 for the Fortification in a 2000 point game. Thoughts?

How are you getting 3 trip plas in the 5 man squads? I am pretty sure you only get 2 unless your squad totals a size of 10 or more.

 Octopoid wrote:
Okay, based on some comments from above, someone poke holes in this list:

Red Corsair Battalion
Huron Blackheart
Warpsmith (Stock)
CSMs x5 (trip plasma)
CSMs x5 (trip plasma)
CSMs x20 (Trip plasma)

Black Legion Spearhead
Abaddon the Despoiler
Chaos Predator (Quad las)
Chaos Predator (Quad las)
Chaos Predator (Quad las)
Helbrute (ML/TL)
Helbrute (ML/TL)

Comes in at 1734, leaving 266 for the Fortification in a 2000 point game. Thoughts?

I think this is a typo, should only be able to do double plasma on 5 mans.

It seems alright, but very invested in a castle which falls short against certain things. Not sure I really am sold on the new terrain feature. Folks seem to want to use it to fix things like predators and hellbrutes, but those things are only just barely viable if even at all with their current price and chaining them to a 100 point piece of terrain just seems like a step to the side rather then a leap forward like they need.

A bit of food for thought regarding the Lord Discordand:

If you give him the "Soul Eater" WT (yes, the "Indomitable" trait that halves dmg is better, I know) he would regain D3 wound every time he kills a unit. If he kills a vehicle he would thus regain 2D3 wounds.

And after he killed that vehicle, you can use Chaos Boon. All of the results (except Daemonhood or Spawndom ofc) are a good benefit for him. +3" makes him really fast, +1S makes him and his mount S8 on the charge, +1A is always good, +1 to ALL saving throws would give him essentially a 1+/4++, +1T would take him to T7 (which isn't that great since most AT weapons still wound him on 3s) and +1W just makes him even beefier.

Azuza001 wrote:

 Octopoid wrote:
Okay, based on some comments from above, someone poke holes in this list:

Red Corsair Battalion
Huron Blackheart
Warpsmith (Stock)
CSMs x5 (trip plasma)
CSMs x5 (trip plasma)
CSMs x20 (Trip plasma)

Black Legion Spearhead
Abaddon the Despoiler
Chaos Predator (Quad las)
Chaos Predator (Quad las)
Chaos Predator (Quad las)
Helbrute (ML/TL)
Helbrute (ML/TL)

Comes in at 1734, leaving 266 for the Fortification in a 2000 point game. Thoughts?

How are you getting 3 trip plas in the 5 man squads? I am pretty sure you only get 2 unless your squad totals a size of 10 or more.

You're absolutely right. It would be double plas on the first two squads, trip plas on the third.

Also, the warpsmith is out - he only heals <LEGION> VEHICLES, so he can't do a blessed thing to the Black Legion stuff. I'll have to find a new HQ.

I'm not claiming this list will win any tournaments, but it sounds fun!

A warpsmith isn't bad though. The ability to repair is cool but I actually like him more for his offense at his cheap price point. In your list he could take the relic combi melta and just go on offense.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Octopoid wrote:
Okay, based on some comments from above, someone poke holes in this list:

Red Corsair Battalion
Huron Blackheart
Warpsmith (Stock)
CSMs x5 (trip plasma)
CSMs x5 (trip plasma)
CSMs x20 (Trip plasma)

Black Legion Spearhead
Abaddon the Despoiler
Chaos Predator (Quad las)
Chaos Predator (Quad las)
Chaos Predator (Quad las)
Helbrute (ML/TL)
Helbrute (ML/TL)

Comes in at 1734, leaving 266 for the Fortification in a 2000 point game. Thoughts?

I think this is a typo, should only be able to do double plasma on 5 mans.

It seems alright, but very invested in a castle which falls short against certain things. Not sure I really am sold on the new terrain feature. Folks seem to want to use it to fix things like predators and hellbrutes, but those things are only just barely viable if even at all with their current price and chaining them to a 100 point piece of terrain just seems like a step to the side rather then a leap forward like they need.

Did they say exactly how much the Noctilith (sp?) Crown ends up being? I'd say fill in the remaining points with cultists, so Abby can make them fearless chaff and use Tide of Traitors if they get low. Once, but still.

 Causalis wrote:
A bit of food for thought regarding the Lord Discordand:

If you give him the "Soul Eater" WT (yes, the "Indomitable" trait that halves dmg is better, I know) he would regain D3 wound every time he kills a unit. If he kills a vehicle he would thus regain 2D3 wounds.

And after he killed that vehicle, you can use Chaos Boon. All of the results (except Daemonhood or Spawndom ofc) are a good benefit for him. +3" makes him really fast, +1S makes him and his mount S8 on the charge, +1A is always good, +1 to ALL saving throws would give him essentially a 1+/4++, +1T would take him to T7 (which isn't that great since most AT weapons still wound him on 3s) and +1W just makes him even beefier.

I think I would be hesitant to run him as my WL to begin with. He's awesome and well worth taking, which means he is going to draw attention, not sure I want to reward my opponent further when he expires. Which is why odds are if I did run hm as my WL, it would be with the halving damage trait IF I am even running black legion. Otherwise he's going to just be a field commander so I can use the +2" move aura trait, but not be my actual WL.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Octopoid wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Octopoid wrote:
Okay, based on some comments from above, someone poke holes in this list:

Red Corsair Battalion
Huron Blackheart
Warpsmith (Stock)
CSMs x5 (trip plasma)
CSMs x5 (trip plasma)
CSMs x20 (Trip plasma)

Black Legion Spearhead
Abaddon the Despoiler
Chaos Predator (Quad las)
Chaos Predator (Quad las)
Chaos Predator (Quad las)
Helbrute (ML/TL)
Helbrute (ML/TL)

Comes in at 1734, leaving 266 for the Fortification in a 2000 point game. Thoughts?

I think this is a typo, should only be able to do double plasma on 5 mans.

It seems alright, but very invested in a castle which falls short against certain things. Not sure I really am sold on the new terrain feature. Folks seem to want to use it to fix things like predators and hellbrutes, but those things are only just barely viable if even at all with their current price and chaining them to a 100 point piece of terrain just seems like a step to the side rather then a leap forward like they need.

Did they say exactly how much the Noctilith (sp?) Crown ends up being? I'd say fill in the remaining points with cultists, so Abby can make them fearless chaff and use Tide of Traitors if they get low. Once, but still.

I believe it was said to cost 100 points. Which isn't enough to be bad by any means, but definitely something to make me hesitate a bit. I just don't like that it encourages a static play style, Your at the will of your deployment at that point.

You could take cultists, you could also flesh out a second marine unit and just tide them after you do it on the other. I'll be honest though, your list lacks AI in a pretty big way.

I dont see taking the structure worth it unless you plan on the dark apostle to already be using his boost as well. Otherwise there are some tricksy things you can do.

Like take a land raider. Apostle puts it to 5++ with his prayer. Use the tzeentch spell weaver of fates. This puts your land raider at a 4++. Enjoy the looks.

So I am looking at the fact that CSms can come in 20-man squads...

and I am looking at the fearless aura from the priest as well as the +1 to hit/5+ invuln/-1 to hit prayer depending what you need...

and I'm looking at that 3CP Red Corsair stratagem...

Did GW just make a space marine unit worth fielding even at 13PPM?

Take 3 miniguns (or 1 plasma 2 miniguns if you can't do 3 heavy weapons in 20 I don't remember) and a combi-bolter on the sarge, make them mark of slaanesh just in case you wind up in a good position for a double shoot.

300+ points of models that just pops back up like daisies when they get shot up seems pretty hilarious.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I believe it was said to cost 100 points. Which isn't enough to be bad by any means, but definitely something to make me hesitate a bit. I just don't like that it encourages a static play style, Your at the will of your deployment at that point.

You could take cultists, you could also flesh out a second marine unit and just tide them after you do it on the other. I'll be honest though, your list lacks AI in a pretty big way.

Well, if it's only 100 points, that leaves enough points to get a 20-man Cultist unit. Give them autoguns, and that's something. Also, swap the plasma on the CSMs for the new rotor cannons. They don't really need the plasma anyway, with the Lascannon backfield. Also, the Helbrutes' Missile Launchers can be directed to fire frag missiles, if there's no good vehicle or monster targets.

Let's see, that looks like:

Battalion - Red Corsairs
Huron
Warpsmith w/Combi-Melta
CSMs x5 w/Combi-Bolter, Chaincannon
CSMs x5 w/Combi-Bolter, Chaincannon
CSMs x20 w/Combi-Bolter, Chaincannon

Spearhead - Black Legion
Abaddon
Warpsmith (Stock)
CPred w/quad las, Combi-Bolter
CPred w/quad las, Combi-Bolter
CPred w/quad las
Helbrute (TL/ML)
Helbrute (TL/ML)
Chaos Cultists x28 (Autoguns)

Fortification Network:
Noctilith Crown (100)

Comes out to 2000 even. Added a little bit of anti-infantry, got a few good tricks, not a TAC list, but still fun!

How do noise marine (troops) compare to the new buffed chaos space marines ?

 Rydria wrote:
How do noise marine (troops) compare to the new buffed chaos space marines ?

What the heck do you mean buffed? Nothing buffed space marines. They just got adjacent buffs that every other unit in the codex can basically take, aside from a couple Red Corsairs things.

Noise Marines are fantastic, however I think they contend too much with Combi-Bolter chosen at this point. But they still pack a punch, and are a great Endless Cacophony target if you take a squad of 10 or more.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I think this is a typo, should only be able to do double plasma on 5 mans.

2 in the squad, 1 Combi-Plasma on the champion.

 Octopoid wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
I believe it was said to cost 100 points. Which isn't enough to be bad by any means, but definitely something to make me hesitate a bit. I just don't like that it encourages a static play style, Your at the will of your deployment at that point.

You could take cultists, you could also flesh out a second marine unit and just tide them after you do it on the other. I'll be honest though, your list lacks AI in a pretty big way.

Well, if it's only 100 points, that leaves enough points to get a 20-man Cultist unit. Give them autoguns, and that's something. Also, swap the plasma on the CSMs for the new rotor cannons. They don't really need the plasma anyway, with the Lascannon backfield. Also, the Helbrutes' Missile Launchers can be directed to fire frag missiles, if there's no good vehicle or monster targets.

Let's see, that looks like:

Battalion - Red Corsairs
Huron
Warpsmith w/Combi-Melta
CSMs x5 w/Combi-Bolter, Chaincannon
CSMs x5 w/Combi-Bolter, Chaincannon
CSMs x20 w/Combi-Bolter, Chaincannon

Spearhead - Black Legion
Abaddon
Warpsmith (Stock)
CPred w/quad las, Combi-Bolter
CPred w/quad las, Combi-Bolter
CPred w/quad las
Helbrute (TL/ML)
Helbrute (TL/ML)
Chaos Cultists x28 (Autoguns)

Fortification Network:
Noctilith Crown (100)

Comes out to 2000 even. Added a little bit of anti-infantry, got a few good tricks, not a TAC list, but still fun!

How do we think that daemon engines measure up in shooting vs Predators/helbrutes now? They come with the 5++, so you can save the Noctilith crown and run another DA, Sorc, or MoP instead. Swap out a helbrute for a Lord Discordant for +1 to hit. You could have a blob with the MoP giving them a 4++ from his power.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
I think this is a typo, should only be able to do double plasma on 5 mans.

2 in the squad, 1 Combi-Plasma on the champion.

Not in a five man unit. One in the squad, one on the champ. If the unit has ten models, two in the squad plus the champ can.

 vaklor4 wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
How do noise marine (troops) compare to the new buffed chaos space marines ?

What the heck do you mean buffed? Nothing buffed space marines. They just got adjacent buffs that every other unit in the codex can basically take, aside from a couple Red Corsairs things.

Noise Marines are fantastic, however I think they contend too much with Combi-Bolter chosen at this point. But they still pack a punch, and are a great Endless Cacophony target if you take a squad of 10 or more.

I was under the impression that the beta bolter rule became official (though noise marines can benefit from this also) and the chaincannon now exists.

Another question for you folks could a brass scorpion work with a lord of discordant? Is the new red corsair csm detachment actually worth running for the cp poinrs in such a list?