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Would this make for a decent armylist for friendly games?


Total Points: 2000


The Chaos Lord would be used to babysit the Plasma wielding squads of CSM while the Dark Apostle will be used to give the three Helbrutes some added defense.
I'm unsure whether or not I should let the Terminator Sorcerer teleport in with the Terminator Squad and the Terminator Lord or if it would be better to keep him on the table from round one.
The Obliterators are probably going to be teleported into the game, either to hold an objective or to aide the plasma onslaught from the terminators.
The CSM squads will be used to hold down objectives.
The Helbrutes are primarily there to look good and draw fire. If they manage to kill something along the way it would make for a nice bonus.
Does this seem like a prudent use of my army or would it better utilised in some other way and/or with other units in it?

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:


1. I mean WE cuts you out from the most powerfull stuff CSM have. It can work, it just needs alot of mobility options. Also a battalion filled out of what?

Khorne Berzerkers armed only with chain swords and chain axes, a chaos lord or two, either a Helbrute with heavy bolters or lascannons and a powerfist, or a Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought with butcher cannons or soul burners (not sure which I want to place with which battalion; Khorne, Tzeentch, or Nurgle), and good ol' Kharn. Instead of the daemons, I think I'll have a Tzeentch battalion with Tzaangors (regular, Enlightened, Skyfires, and a Shaman), possibly a Lord of Change and an exalted sorcerer (converted Gaunt Summoner on foot).

2.DG are good imo, they will give you the needed durability.

I thought they would. Ideally, I would have plague marines, Typhus, a malignant plaguecaster, and a lord of contagion or daemon prince (a regular daemon prince with Nurgle mark and DG allegiance, not the nut sack chin guy).

3. How much points, remember that this can make or break your army.

I haven't calculated them yet, which I know is crucial. I'll probably have to say goodbye to a Tzeentch and/or Nurgle HQ unit (I really want to keep Kharn, Typhus, the sorcerer, and one lord [I'll be converting an AoS Skullgrinder to a WE Chaos Lord armed, with the swinging hammer as a thunder hammer and a plasma pistol on his hip]).

the concept can work, altough i doubt WE would be good for it.

What about with berzerkers as the main troops? They're vicious up close, especially when armed with two chain weapons.

The problem is not that Berzerkers aren't good, the problem is with their Mobility, which is bad. Rhinos might help but that is also more points. If you can cast warptime, the things allready changing but again WE can't have psykers.
Also berzerkers are not particular sturdy.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

tinidiablo wrote:
Would this make for a decent armylist for friendly games?

Spoiler:

Battalion Detachment
Legion: Black Legion

Chaos Lord: Chainaxe, Combi-bolter, Mark of Slaanesh

Dark Apostle:Trusted War-leader, Council of Traitors, Illusory Supplication, Mark of Slaanesh, Dark Disciples

5x Chaos Space Marines: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

5x Chaos Space Marines: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

20x Chaos Space Marines: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Combi-bolter
. 17x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Reaper chaincannon
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Reaper chaincannon

Vanguard Detachment
Legion: Black Legion

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour: Black-clad Brute, Combi-melta, Mark of Slaanesh, Power sword, Spineshiver Blade, Warlord

Sorcerer in Terminator Armour: Indomitable, Combi-bolter, Council of Traitors, Delightful Agonies, Force stave, Mark of Slaanesh, Prescience

10x Terminators: Mark of Slaanesh, Chainaxe, Combi-plasma

Helbrute: Mark of Slaanesh, Missile launcher, Twin lascannon

Helbrute: Mark of Slaanesh, Missile launcher, Twin lascannon

Helbrute: Mark of Slaanesh, Missile launcher, Twin lascannon

3x Obliterator: Mark of Slaanesh

Total Points: 2000


The Chaos Lord would be used to babysit the Plasma wielding squads of CSM while the Dark Apostle will be used to give the three Helbrutes some added defense.
I'm unsure whether or not I should let the Terminator Sorcerer teleport in with the Terminator Squad and the Terminator Lord or if it would be better to keep him on the table from round one.
The Obliterators are probably going to be teleported into the game, either to hold an objective or to aide the plasma onslaught from the terminators.
The CSM squads will be used to hold down objectives.
The Helbrutes are primarily there to look good and draw fire. If they manage to kill something along the way it would make for a nice bonus.
Does this seem like a prudent use of my army or would it better utilised in some other way and/or with other units in it?

Correct me if i am wrong, but shouldn't the first battalion be RC?
Else the 20 man blob does not make sense and you'd be better off with more MSU.

Not Online!!! wrote:


Correct me if i am wrong, but shouldn't the first battalion be RC?
Else the 20 man blob does not make sense and you'd be better off with more MSU.

RC is short for Red Corsairs right? If so the reason for me keeping both detachments as Black Legion is just for fluff. I guess Red Corsairs is the better pick for such a large CSM unit due to More Where They Came From.

I was under the impression that it's good to have atleast one unit with some body count to it. That's the main reason why I made it so big. Would it be better to decrease it to 10 models so that I can keep the two Chaincannons or should I just drop it down to 5 models and 1 Chaincannon or just scrap it completely for a third minimum sized plasma squad?
The latter option would give me 202 point left over to spend. Would it be a good idea to put them into a Chaincannon-wielding Havoc unit with a combi-bolter on the champion? The leftover 50 points could then be invested in a pair of Spawns or something more prudent.

tinidiablo wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:


Correct me if i am wrong, but shouldn't the first battalion be RC?
Else the 20 man blob does not make sense and you'd be better off with more MSU.

RC is short for Red Corsairs right? If so the reason for me keeping both detachments as Black Legion is just for fluff. I guess Red Corsairs is the better pick for such a large CSM unit due to More Where They Came From.

I was under the impression that it's good to have atleast one unit with some body count to it. That's the main reason why I made it so big. Would it be better to decrease it to 10 models so that I can keep the two Chaincannons or should I just drop it down to 5 models and 1 Chaincannon or just scrap it completely for a third minimum sized plasma squad?
The latter option would give me 202 point left over to spend. Would it be a good idea to put them into a Chaincannon-wielding Havoc unit with a combi-bolter on the champion? The leftover 50 points could then be invested in a pair of Spawns or something more prudent.

No the actual rules favour morale immune blobs (the later the csm of the bl aren't) or msu.

RC can run such units as you said because of the recycling stratagem. That said 10 man squad can work, 5 man still better for csm.

Not Online!!! wrote:

No the actual rules favour morale immune blobs (the later the csm of the bl aren't) or msu.

RC can run such units as you said because of the recycling stratagem. That said 10 man squad can work, 5 man still better for csm.

I see, thanks for putting me straight! I think I'll scrap the large unit in favour of a third minimum sized plasma squad and use the leftover points for a squad of Chaincannon Havocs then.

tinidiablo wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

No the actual rules favour morale immune blobs (the later the csm of the bl aren't) or msu.

RC can run such units as you said because of the recycling stratagem. That said 10 man squad can work, 5 man still better for csm.

I see, thanks for putting me straight! I think I'll scrap the large unit in favour of a third minimum sized plasma squad and use the leftover points for a squad of Chaincannon Havocs then.

That should work.
Friendly list can also however easily run 10 man squads in csm.
So meh, chose to your liking.

My verdict on venomcrawlers ...

I tried out 2 venomcrawlers along with 2 Lord DIsordants in a game yesterday. They look cool, but honestly, they are a little bit too fragile. They are literally Rhinos with a 5++ save. And if you think that is good, I was facing a mixed imperium army of sisters, blood angels and AM and their sisters Rhino had a 4++ save!

It was a full daemon engine list btw, but suffered because the venomcrawlers were too fragile. In the same vein, LDs are too fragile as well. Unless you give them the indomitable warlord trait that halves their damage received.

You might as well compare a full daemon engine list to a full knight list (with some obligatory troop choices for objectives). Its the same thing. And I think while the daemon engine list is really fluffy, the full knight list would do better. Its like a whole army of T8 compared to a whole army of mostly T6 and T7.

And the other list I tried around the Daemon Engine theme worked out much better because it had a Khorne Lord of skulls in it, which was a lot harder to bring down compared to venom crawlers and a lord discordant. ( I basically switched out my LOS for more daemon engines).

BTW, a Khorne Lord of skulls with a Lord Discordant and Master of Possession to buff it is an absolute beast. Hits on a 2+, rerolls 1 to hit and wound (from infernal power) and has a 4++ (from cursed earth). Absolutely rocks. I lost the game I tried him out because I was a bit too late trying to go for the end game objectives, but my opponent was forced to sacrifice literally his entire army to my LOS.

The LOS took down, with some help from other heavy support, 2 Rhinos, 2 Armigers, a Basilisk, Celestine (had to kill her twice!), enemy warlord, troops. And the highlight was when it hacked apart a Crusader knight over 2 rounds of combat with its Great Cleaver of Khorne. My opponent won the game by objectives in the end, but only had two models left standing lol.

Not Online!!! wrote:

tinidiablo wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

No the actual rules favour morale immune blobs (the later the csm of the bl aren't) or msu.

RC can run such units as you said because of the recycling stratagem. That said 10 man squad can work, 5 man still better for csm.

I see, thanks for putting me straight! I think I'll scrap the large unit in favour of a third minimum sized plasma squad and use the leftover points for a squad of Chaincannon Havocs then.

That should work.
Friendly list can also however easily run 10 man squads in csm.
So meh, chose to your liking.

Well, when you put it like that it makes me want to try out the 10 man chaincannon squad. I got some thinking to do. Thanks for your input, buddy!

Eldenfirefly wrote:


BTW, a Khorne Lord of skulls with a Lord Discordant and Master of Possession to buff it is an absolute beast. Hits on a 2+, rerolls 1 to hit and wound (from infernal power) and has a 4++ (from cursed earth). Absolutely rocks. I lost the game I tried him out because I was a bit too late trying to go for the end game objectives, but my opponent was forced to sacrifice literally his entire army to my LOS.

Lord of Skulls is so hard to implement.
To keep his cost decent I usually give him gorestorm and Skullhurler, but his effectiveness is ultimately dependent on good number of shots rolls.
I even tried to bring 1k sons DP with Gaze of Fate reroll, but still frequently LOS shots as couple lascannons for 552 points.

And many opponents are just so good at killing him.
I usually win against Imperial Guard tanks, but with LOS it becomes a roulette.

I even considered trying separate supreme command detachment with Iron Warriors legion trait:
LOS, dark apostle, discordant and MoP - just to increase his survivability a little bit.

Yet to fragile. May be with new Chaos Knights codex it will be possible to provide target saturation.

Nice synergy with bloodletter bomb though, several times the bonus shots from Crimson Crown were crucial.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
My verdict on venomcrawlers ...

I tried out 2 venomcrawlers along with 2 Lord DIsordants in a game yesterday. They look cool, but honestly, they are a little bit too fragile. They are literally Rhinos with a 5++ save. And if you think that is good, I was facing a mixed imperium army of sisters, blood angels and AM and their sisters Rhino had a 4++ save!

It was a full daemon engine list btw, but suffered because the venomcrawlers were too fragile. In the same vein, LDs are too fragile as well. Unless you give them the indomitable warlord trait that halves their damage received.

You might as well compare a full daemon engine list to a full knight list (with some obligatory troop choices for objectives). Its the same thing. And I think while the daemon engine list is really fluffy, the full knight list would do better. Its like a whole army of T8 compared to a whole army of mostly T6 and T7.

And the other list I tried around the Daemon Engine theme worked out much better because it had a Khorne Lord of skulls in it, which was a lot harder to bring down compared to venom crawlers and a lord discordant. ( I basically switched out my LOS for more daemon engines).

BTW, a Khorne Lord of skulls with a Lord Discordant and Master of Possession to buff it is an absolute beast. Hits on a 2+, rerolls 1 to hit and wound (from infernal power) and has a 4++ (from cursed earth). Absolutely rocks. I lost the game I tried him out because I was a bit too late trying to go for the end game objectives, but my opponent was forced to sacrifice literally his entire army to my LOS.

The LOS took down, with some help from other heavy support, 2 Rhinos, 2 Armigers, a Basilisk, Celestine (had to kill her twice!), enemy warlord, troops. And the highlight was when it hacked apart a Crusader knight over 2 rounds of combat with its Great Cleaver of Khorne. My opponent won the game by objectives in the end, but only had two models left standing lol.

So as suspected venomcrawlers are overpriced rhinos.
?

Mine do well. I have also run full demon engines and you have to be careful where you place models but it does well.

I definitely think your better off running a battalion at least as well though.

Near the lord discordant they are hitting on 3's while on the move and they still have some punch in melee. The fact that they heal in both assault phases and start of turn means they can be surprisingly resilient. They are nothing amazing but they are far from bad as well.

Calling them overpriced rhinos is a bit dramatic.

They hit a lot more than a Rhino for sure, but sigh, so fragile. Infernal regen is great, if your opponent spread out his wounds across all your engines. But mine typically focus fire everything on one engine at a time, so it doesn't count for as much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fan67 wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:


BTW, a Khorne Lord of skulls with a Lord Discordant and Master of Possession to buff it is an absolute beast. Hits on a 2+, rerolls 1 to hit and wound (from infernal power) and has a 4++ (from cursed earth). Absolutely rocks. I lost the game I tried him out because I was a bit too late trying to go for the end game objectives, but my opponent was forced to sacrifice literally his entire army to my LOS.

Lord of Skulls is so hard to implement.
To keep his cost decent I usually give him gorestorm and Skullhurler, but his effectiveness is ultimately dependent on good number of shots rolls.
I even tried to bring 1k sons DP with Gaze of Fate reroll, but still frequently LOS shots as couple lascannons for 552 points.

And many opponents are just so good at killing him.
I usually win against Imperial Guard tanks, but with LOS it becomes a roulette.

I even considered trying separate supreme command detachment with Iron Warriors legion trait:
LOS, dark apostle, discordant and MoP - just to increase his survivability a little bit.

Yet to fragile. May be with new Chaos Knights codex it will be possible to provide target saturation.

Nice synergy with bloodletter bomb though, several times the bonus shots from Crimson Crown were crucial.

The Hades autocannon is overpriced but the LOS is just so much better with that weapon than with the Ichor Cannon. 12 shots compared to d6 every turn. Yes it breaks your LOS above 600 points but you will be deleting entire units with that gun each round.

Agreed. Also go for the full on lols with this bad boy, a deamon herald of khorne standing behind him with the crown means all 6's to wound pop additional hits. Run him and some khorne venomcrawlers and a forgefiend with hades autocannons and make it a moving khorne castle. Add a master of possession, a dark apostle, and a lord discordant for maximum lols (i run mine as black legion).

Sample list :



I ran a variation of this list at a local tournament just before the discordant came out and it did amazingly well. The trick was to play super aggressive and go right for the enemies speed. Since then adding the discordant in has made it even better. I mean the lord of skulls at -1 to hit sitting on a 4++ save, no one wants to shoot it, but the venom crawlers / forgefiend also have a 4++ so are not better targets really. Add in hitting on 2's rerolling 1's for the lord and his friends (forgefiend hits on 3's but is still super effective here) and you always have demonforge if you need to make sure something hits properly.

And with the master of possession using that poor warpsmith as a wound healer they can keep almost anything alive. Just keep moving forwards, making life miserable for your opponent, and when you finally get within charge range go to town.

Had a blast with reaper chaincannon havocs killing necrons. With VOTLW, prescience, and EC, a chaos lord nearby, they deleted 560 points of infantry. 32*2 shots, hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s, wounding on 2s with AP-1 is insane My opponent surrendered

Azuza001 wrote:
Agreed. Also go for the full on lols with this bad boy, a deamon herald of khorne standing behind him with the crown means all 6's to wound pop additional hits. Run him and some khorne venomcrawlers and a forgefiend with hades autocannons and make it a moving khorne castle. Add a master of possession, a dark apostle, and a lord discordant for maximum lols (i run mine as black legion).

Sample list :

Spoiler:

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [51 PL, 1,010pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dark Disciples [1 PL, 10pts]: 2x Dark Disciple

Legion: Black Legion

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour [6 PL, 98pts]: Angelsbane, Chainaxe, Combi-bolter, Mark of Khorne

Dark Apostle [5 PL, 100pts]: Benediction of Darkness, Mark of Khorne, Wrathful Entreaty

Lord Discordant on Helstalker [9 PL, 180pts]: 2. Indomitable, Baleflamer, Mark of Khorne, Warlord
. Helstalker: Techno-virus injector

+ Lord of War +

Khorne Lord of Skulls [30 PL, 622pts]: Hades gatling cannon, Ichor cannon

++ Patrol Detachment (Chaos - Daemons) [10 PL, -1CP, 175pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Khorne

Rewards of Chaos (1 Relic) [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Blood Throne [6 PL, 105pts]: The Crimson Crown

+ Troops +

Bloodletters [4 PL, 70pts]: 9x Bloodletter, Bloodreaper

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [43 PL, 811pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Black Legion

+ HQ +

Master of Possession [5 PL, 98pts]: Cursed Earth, Force stave, No Chaos Mark, Sacrifice

Warpsmith [4 PL, 60pts]: Bolt pistol, Flamer, Meltagun, No Chaos Mark, Power axe

+ Troops +

Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 85pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Reaper chaincannon

Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 85pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Reaper chaincannon

Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 75pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Heavy bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Forgefiend [8 PL, 148pts]: 2x Hades autocannons, Daemon jaws, Mark of Khorne

Venomcrawler [7 PL, 130pts]: Mark of Khorne

Venomcrawler [7 PL, 130pts]: Mark of Khorne

++ Total: [104 PL, -1CP, 1,996pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I ran a variation of this list at a local tournament just before the discordant came out and it did amazingly well. The trick was to play super aggressive and go right for the enemies speed. Since then adding the discordant in has made it even better. I mean the lord of skulls at -1 to hit sitting on a 4++ save, no one wants to shoot it, but the venom crawlers / forgefiend also have a 4++ so are not better targets really. Add in hitting on 2's rerolling 1's for the lord and his friends (forgefiend hits on 3's but is still super effective here) and you always have demonforge if you need to make sure something hits properly.

And with the master of possession using that poor warpsmith as a wound healer they can keep almost anything alive. Just keep moving forwards, making life miserable for your opponent, and when you finally get within charge range go to town.

Wow, you do have very good ideas! Now I want to try out your list too! (Its a variant of my list). Venomcrawlers might actually pull their weight in your list because of all the buffs they get from the Blood Throne, Crown, LD, MOP. lol I might go autocannon on my LD instead of baleflamer though. Having the baleflamer roll 1 shot when it cost 20 points more wrecks my heart. I might actually consider putting the -1 to hit on my LD instead of LOS (depending on the matchup). The warlord LD is a favoured target because it "appears" to be the squishiest Daemon engine at T6 and opponent gets warlord point objective if they kill it. Usually, unless you are facing a list that has enough fire power, the LOS will be fine with just a 4++, at least in turn 1. And based on your list, you will have the means to heal it up anyway. Oh, so I asume you don't use infernal power for your psychic but instead, take the one that heals an engine?

Anyway, please post more experiences you have and what you have learnt using daemon engine lists such as the one you posted. I absolutely love the theme, because I love the LOS as a model. And I have all the models you listed in your list too.

Just to share, my list was


Black Legion superheavy detachment.
1 Lord of skulls

Black legion Batallion detachment
1 LD (warlord trait indomitable)
1 MOP.
3 squads of CSM
2 Defilers (lascannon and havoc launchers).

Deathguard Spearhead
1 Chaos Lord with power fist.
3 Plague Burst Crawlers (2 with plague splitters and 1 with entropy cannon loadout).

I built my castle to stand back and shoot, unlike yours. It was only supposed to start moving forward after maybe 2 rounds of shooting. And I didn't buff it up with as much as what you did. But now I would love to try out yours too.

They hit a lot more than a Rhino for sure, but sigh, so fragile. Infernal regen is great, if your opponent spread out his wounds across all your engines. But mine typically focus fire everything on one engine at a time, so it doesn't count for as much.

I mean against any daemon engine, Focus firing is the answer.

Azuza001 wrote:
Agreed. Also go for the full on lols with this bad boy, a deamon herald of khorne standing behind him with the crown means all 6's to wound pop additional hits. Run him and some khorne venomcrawlers and a forgefiend with hades autocannons and make it a moving khorne castle. Add a master of possession, a dark apostle, and a lord discordant for maximum lols (i run mine as black legion).

Sample list :

Spoiler:

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [51 PL, 1,010pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dark Disciples [1 PL, 10pts]: 2x Dark Disciple

Legion: Black Legion

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour [6 PL, 98pts]: Angelsbane, Chainaxe, Combi-bolter, Mark of Khorne

Dark Apostle [5 PL, 100pts]: Benediction of Darkness, Mark of Khorne, Wrathful Entreaty

Lord Discordant on Helstalker [9 PL, 180pts]: 2. Indomitable, Baleflamer, Mark of Khorne, Warlord
. Helstalker: Techno-virus injector

+ Lord of War +

Khorne Lord of Skulls [30 PL, 622pts]: Hades gatling cannon, Ichor cannon

++ Patrol Detachment (Chaos - Daemons) [10 PL, -1CP, 175pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Khorne

Rewards of Chaos (1 Relic) [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Blood Throne [6 PL, 105pts]: The Crimson Crown

+ Troops +

Bloodletters [4 PL, 70pts]: 9x Bloodletter, Bloodreaper

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [43 PL, 811pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Black Legion

+ HQ +

Master of Possession [5 PL, 98pts]: Cursed Earth, Force stave, No Chaos Mark, Sacrifice

Warpsmith [4 PL, 60pts]: Bolt pistol, Flamer, Meltagun, No Chaos Mark, Power axe

+ Troops +

Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 85pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Reaper chaincannon

Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 85pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Reaper chaincannon

Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 75pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Heavy bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Forgefiend [8 PL, 148pts]: 2x Hades autocannons, Daemon jaws, Mark of Khorne

Venomcrawler [7 PL, 130pts]: Mark of Khorne

Venomcrawler [7 PL, 130pts]: Mark of Khorne

++ Total: [104 PL, -1CP, 1,996pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I ran a variation of this list at a local tournament just before the discordant came out and it did amazingly well. The trick was to play super aggressive and go right for the enemies speed. Since then adding the discordant in has made it even better. I mean the lord of skulls at -1 to hit sitting on a 4++ save, no one wants to shoot it, but the venom crawlers / forgefiend also have a 4++ so are not better targets really. Add in hitting on 2's rerolling 1's for the lord and his friends (forgefiend hits on 3's but is still super effective here) and you always have demonforge if you need to make sure something hits properly.

And with the master of possession using that poor warpsmith as a wound healer they can keep almost anything alive. Just keep moving forwards, making life miserable for your opponent, and when you finally get within charge range go to town.

Did you make anything into a Soulforged Pack?

I do not, the warlord trait isnt worth it to me because i plan on using my warpsmith as a sacrificial healer in the games plus the number of cp this list has isnt too great. Spending more for the option to potentially spend more, it doesn't work for me.

Azuza001 wrote:
I do not, the warlord trait isnt worth it to me because i plan on using my warpsmith as a sacrificial healer in the games plus the number of cp this list has isnt too great. Spending more for the option to potentially spend more, it doesn't work for me.

His list is designed to shoot first, fight second. Not to say it cannot fight in melee, but it doesn't need to get into melee on round 1. So it doesn't need that +2 movement. If anything, it wants to move together in one huge death ball. The Blood Throne holding the crimson crown, the MOP, the chaos lord that give reroll 1s to hit, these are all moving base 6 inches only. Even with advance, they may not be able to keep up if the daemon engines charge forward too much, so the soulforge pack is kinda unnecessary.

I have to say though, Venomcrawlers who pump out 2d6 str 9 shots because they are buffed by the blood throne isn't something I considered. Thats like lascannon strength shooting lol. And the crimson crown's multiplier effect is applied to all with the demon keyword shooting within 6 inches of the blood throne. So, its that entire deathball of shooting, including the Lord Discordant ... Nasty!

I find that Chaos actually have some very cool rules, relics, strategems and such. But half the time, people just straight up forget about them. (Like death to the false emperor!). lol

Tried a Khorne Daemonkin list over the weekend. Karanak, CC Skullmaster, and Bloodreavers DP marching up the field with a Soulforged Pack, Darkness DA, and Cultist screen, with a Raptorial Host of Murder Swlord, 2x5 Warp Talons, and Melta Raptors.

Mission was a CA18 one where three characters on each side have “Intel” that generates VPs and also makes them the sole scoring units for a central objective. Lengthwise deployment.

Facing a Long Fangs firebase with Whirlwind, advancing force of Intercessors screening Bjorn and Phobos Rune Priest with speed bump spell and Relic armour that forces a unit to strike last, with Phobos Infiltrators on one flank and a Gunship carrying Grey Hunters down the other, and a rearguard screen of Wolves.

Lost a Daemon Engine every turn to Long Fangs using an ignore hit modifiers strat. Infiltrators seemed overcosted but totally shut down Warp Talons on their flank. Easily took the objective with my central charge and arriving Talons overwhelming the ability of the priest to shut down a single nasty unit, but I didn’t manage to tripoint anyone and the retaliatory firepower was overwhelming. When the smoke cleared, the only VP generator left on the board was the Wolf Lord hanging with the Long Fangs, and I conceded.

In hindsight, I could have won with more careful piling in, but it was a complicated ruin with a lot of wobbly model syndrome going on and I didn’t want to spend ten minutes on each unit. A better strategy would have been to hold back - way back - and force her to move upfield to get within Las & Plas range and enable my deep strikers to punish a mistake.

Venomcrawlers who pump out 2d6 str 9 shots

Point of order - it’s 2D3 shots

Opps, yes my bad. 2d3 shots. Not 2d6 shots Its still great though. You would get 4 shots on average. That's almost like having a squad of Lascannon Havocs already.

Question: How you getting S9? I only see S8 at full wounds. What are you using to buff its Strength score?

And S9 AP-2 Dd3 does not a Lascannon make.

The Blood Throne is a Herald, so it buffs KHORNE DAEMON stuff just like a KHORNE LEGION DAEMON Greater Possessed

Stack the two and it’s S10, for your niche T5/9/10 targets

 JNAProductions wrote:
Question: How you getting S9? I only see S8 at full wounds. What are you using to buff its Strength score?

And S9 AP-2 Dd3 does not a Lascannon make.

He said : "I have to say though, Venomcrawlers who pump out 2d6 str 9 shots because they are buffed by the blood throne isn't something I considered."

If T6 is the problem, throw in Diabolic Strength and it’s S12

Hi Chaps,

What do people think is better, venom crawler or 2 butcher cannon decimator?

Would a +1 str buff swing it in the venom's favour?

My gut says Decimators are stronger there. Not sure on how the math works out.

Can anybody give me some advice on how to get the best out of a chaos land raider?

I know that they are considered to be a sub-par choice, but I've loved the model ever since it came out and would love to be able to field one in one of my CSM armies without feeling that I'm handicapping myself.

Would the best way to utilise it be to advance for a couple of turns then unleash it's deadly contents?

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
Can anybody give me some advice on how to get the best out of a chaos land raider?

I know that they are considered to be a sub-par choice, but I've loved the model ever since it came out and would love to be able to field one in one of my CSM armies without feeling that I'm handicapping myself.

Would the best way to utilise it be to advance for a couple of turns then unleash it's deadly contents?

I wouldn’t want to pay for four Lascannons and then hold off on shooting with them until turn three. I also wouldn’t want to spend two turns covering 20” of ground with a deathstar’s transport whilst Warptime is a thing. Double-drive it forwards, with a mobile source of refills to hit - if you’re not WE, a Slaanesh DP can keep the pace and even join a cheeky opportunity charge with a Slaaneshi Daemon providing aura support.

An endurance spell or prayer could also be welcome. Maybe. A pricey unit can make that kind of thing worth it. Main problem is making sure that it doesn’t get bogged down by chaff and unable to shoot or disembark - I prefer to take my LR as the FW version (it’s a gribbly conversion of unclear origin) so it can overwatch with twin heavy flamers.

A single raider is a hard sell, but it can be protected by an apostle or sorcerer t1 to help it. Get t1? Put -1 to hit from nurgle sorcerer and from the prayer. Move up full speed, advance, pop smoke, bam. Thats -3 to hit and pretty much garunteed to get its cargo to its location safe. Personally i think thats a bit much, you could probably get away with -2 and let it get some shots off.

Dont get the first turn? Still put it -1 to hit, then put it in cover with a 1+ save. It should survive long enough to get the job done.

Personally i had a lot of luck in a game recently with 2 raiders and abaddon vs a guard player. Each raider was at -1 to hit (dark apostle on one sorcerer on the other) and abaddon in between giving them rerolls. The group just walked up the table and was able to nullify the guard player in short order. Remember, you do not have to kill an enemy tank to make it useless, even a cadian tank hitting on 6's rerolling everything but 5's is pretty much nullified. Ran the rest of the army with black legion marines and used them to do what they do best, light anti infanty removal.



Obviously you can change this list however you like to whatever Legion you play. I just like using a baton. The alpha Legion would be incredibly nasty with that trick as well.