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mrtomski wrote:
I've seen some of the rumoured numbers now. One has terminators at 23 points.

I really like the models but cant really figure out how to make them work, shooting wise they seem outgunned by oblits and assault there is the issue of a 9 inc charge:-/

Assuming they do get a bit cheaper, any bright ideas on what could be done with them?

World Eaters Termies can get +1 to charge if within 6" of warlord if thats worth anything. Might as well make them Red Butchers while you're at it..

Niiru wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:
Obliterators at 95ppm seems pretty solid to me. Also EC have some good options for charging, like the "guaranteed roll of 6" thing so 23 point termies popping in, shooting twice and then charging in and only needing to roll a 3 on one dice might do some good work.

Where have you seen 95pt oblits? I've not seen any reported changes for those

I stumbled across that, too, on reddit, posted by FearfireTheWin. No idea how reliable this is:


But with a 20-point drop, and coupled with the new strats from F&F for protecting them, Oblits will be back to their role of annoying the hell out of my gaming buddies

6shots oblits for 95 pts.

That is impressive

8pt Tzaangor seems a bit steep, that’s more than like a Howling Banshee or Harlequin. Elite ninjas shouldn’t be out-hordeing literal herds

 lindsay40k wrote:
8pt Tzaangor seems a bit steep, that’s more than like a Howling Banshee or Harlequin. Elite ninjas shouldn’t be out-hordeing literal herds

Ha, you know whats funny, the worse cultists from r&h cost still 5 pts .

From what I've seen, nothing from FW was touched at all other than the custards.

I'd say, until FW gets new management-assume nothing will happen with anything they make.

So I'm guessing the Rule of Three for Daemon Princes is dead now?

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
So I'm guessing the Rule of Three for Daemon Princes is dead now?

Not quite. The FAQ is still valid limiting you to only 3 DP regardless of Codex. But I agree that needs to die.

-

Just realised a dual scourge world eaters helbrute now kicks out 12 s8 -2 2dmg attacks on the charge for 110pts lol.

 Latro_ wrote:
Just realised a dual scourge world eaters helbrute now kicks out 12 s8 -2 2dmg attacks on the charge for 110pts lol.

Threat saturation tool, allbeit hellbrutes aren't durable

Also what we thinking about oblits now they got a drop.

I'm considering a full spam with a mop.
Master of possession <warlord> 88
3 Obilterators 285
3 Obilterators 285
3 Obilterators 285

Iron warriors.
Give the mop the 2 hits on a 6 to hit warlord trait
Obv cursed earth for 4++
Infernal power for reroll 1 to hit and wound.

Sprinkle in slannesh fire twice, refill gun stats and votlw...

Lot of points but could be terriflying

Just had an apocalypse match with normal rules. I’ve always felt that oblits at 345p was way too much but after this match and if they get the reduced cost just o wow!

Used as Alpha legion and used the “conceal” stratagem so one unit was untargeteble as I had letters coming in and some nurglings here and there. They wiped 3 units of 5man primaris first turn. And then 3 more normal marines next turn. he had too deal with all letters so could not kill a single oblits and then the game was more or less over.

Only with the new stratagem to hide them makes them good but with a points drop, I will add two units in a lot of my lists again.


Edit:
As above wrote. I used this tactic at the start of 8th Ed with CD Tzeentch warlord trait Daemonspark on a DP for reroll 1son hit and wound. It’s a powerful tool with the MoP and have them as Slaanesh as well.

My emperor's children list gained 240pts with chapter approved which is just amazing

My 1750 points army gained something like 247 points. I can almost play it at 1500 now.

Where are you guys getting the full list if points drops for chaos?

Videos.youtube.

Nurgle AL chaos lord on bike with clandestine, powersword replaced by shadeblade, miasma of pestilence, and benediction of darkness is -5 to hit for ranged weapons at 12"+ And -3 in melee

Lord of Skulls is now only 400 points, definitely going to be worth it in a lot of lists now.

Wait, LoS is CHEAPER than the Kytan now?

 p5freak wrote:
Nurgle AL chaos lord on bike with clandestine, powersword replaced by shadeblade, miasma of pestilence, and benediction of darkness is -5 to hit for ranged weapons at 12"+ And -3 in melee

IT IS INVINCIBLE !!!!!
Except for orks, nobody can outsmart orkz, because orkz rely on bullets to outsmart everything.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Intercessor wrote:
Lord of Skulls is now only 400 points, definitely going to be worth it in a lot of lists now.

That thing is so ugly that it ain't worth it for everyone that respects his collection atleast somewhat.

Hmm. What strats can LoS benefit from? Let’s consider

General:
- Daemonforge: absolute no-brainer, budget at least 3CP for this IMO if you’re not going to have EC and Kharn/Abby accompany it
- Infernal Engines: crap, you don’t want to forego shooting
- Daemonforge Overdrive: crap, there are zero situations where a furiously damaged LoS would rather revert its profile over popping DF to mitigate the lower strength
BL:
- World Killers: ultra niche and situational, but never forget it exists - you’ll win a game by remembering to use this
- Tip of the Spear: by using this, you can pop Daemonforge on another unit, say a Las Defiler, though it’s probably better to get the full rerolls on the LoS’s sheer volume of shots
WB:
- Vengeance for Monarchia: it’s an alt Daemonforge, which is awesome if you’re doing a DE jamboree
NL:
- Vox Scream: if you’re Warptiming the thing into a T1 charge, keep this in mind to disable a backfield support character
- Prey on the Weak: AFAICT, this works with the NL Legion Trait, which will be helpful when you absolutely have to Slash a full sized Intercessor squad to avoid a thunder hammering
- Hit and Run: usually not worth it, as you can shoot when you’re locked in Combat, but you can’t shoot when you fall back. But if there’s a Knight 18 inches away and you’re dancing with a guardsman, it’s absolutely worth walking away to Smash the big guy
- Flay them Alive: I can see this being ok when you’ve Warptimed a T1 charge and picked your shooting targets appropriately, or when you’ve been joined by a Host Raptorial
AL:
- Ambush: absolutely keep this in mind, one of the better units to use it on
- Feigned Retreat: there’s very few situations where this is worth it, you can shoot in melee anyway. If you’re heavily damaged and locked in Combat with a KoS or other firststriking beatstick, it can be wise to get away
- Scrambled Coordinates: worth bearing in mind if your opponent has a plasma or melta DS force
IW:
- Iron Within, Iron Without: one of the best candidates for this strat
- Methodical Annihilation: definitely worth it you’re firing a Skullhurler at a large Intercessor or Terminator squad
- Dour Duty: again, one of the best candidates for this strat. If you are in a situation where Salamanders Aggressors need to be charged and their flamers are benefitting from doctrines, this is probably the best thing that’s not a Warp Talon
- Unholy Vigour: great stuff, just bear in mind your damage tiers
- Tank Hunters: it’s decent, but you’ll probably want to use Daemonforge instead
- Bitter Enmity: it’s an alt Daemonforge, which is awesome if you’re doing a DE jamboree
WE:
- Scorn of Sorcery: you’re already using this all the time
- Kill! Maim! Burn!: worth bearing in mind, especially when you’ve charged a gunline
- Wild Fury: makes Slashing Intercessors much easier
- Blood for the Blood God!: helps overcome the fragility of Berzerkers, worth bearing in mind if a Counter Offensive means a bunch of Power Fist Champions are guaranteed to run away
BB:
- Burning Daemonheart: pretty good, especially if a difficult to hit model is trolling you

Here's what I'm thinking.

Alpha Legion Bezerker horde.
Night Lord Heldrakes

Step 1: Use FORWARD OPERATIVES on the bezerkers. (+9")

Step 2: Heldrakes zoom up and hopefully at least one gets a charge off. You then use WE HAVE COME FOR YOU to lock it there. (Advance your bezerkers, 6+d6")

Step 3: Use CONCEAL on your bezerkers, they will be untargetable, so long as the heldrakes are closer. Specifically the one in combat guarantees their safety.

Step 4: Repeat 2 and 3 as needed. Sprinkle in VOX SCREAMand HIT AND RUN to taste.

Alternatively, you could also use RENASCENT INFILTRATION on your bezerkers instead of FORWARD OPERATIVES if it will get them in range faster.

WE (World Eaters) HAVE COME FOR YOU

…WHCFY won’t work on a Heldrake - it can’t be used on a Vehicle

Warptiming a unit of like bikers or jump packers is about the best way to pull that manoeuvre off

Could also Advance some NL Warp Talons (or a WB JP Possessed Axe Lord, or some Fiends of Slaanesh) in a Daemonkin list


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Could also WT a double-Advancing NL Possessed unit if you’re doing the DK thing

 lindsay40k wrote:
WE (World Eaters) HAVE COME FOR YOU

…WHCFY won’t work on a Heldrake - it can’t be used on a Vehicle

Warptiming a unit of like bikers or jump packers is about the best way to pull that manoeuvre off

Could also Advance some NL Warp Talons (or a WB JP Possessed Axe Lord, or some Fiends of Slaanesh) in a Daemonkin list


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Could also WT a double-Advancing NL Possessed unit if you’re doing the DK thing

Oh bummer, you're right. Well there goes my latest scheme. NL Raptors/Bikers are probably the best way forward then, yeah.

They must have put that clause in specifically for hellturkeys

Are terminators playable yet? And now I feel pressure to finish my sonic dreadnought conversion... and dirt cheap havocs and chosen and space marines make me happy that I can put power armor in my list of most flavors and have a fighting chance. That they are playable because they are cheaper crappier marines makes me sad... so out of curiosity what books am I going to need now to effectively play a black legion, word bearers or emperor’s children legion list? Vigilus ablaze, the applicable PA, core rule book, codex, and chapter approved? All 5 of those darn books? Am I missing any?

macluvin wrote:
Are terminators playable yet? And now I feel pressure to finish my sonic dreadnought conversion... and dirt cheap havocs and chosen and space marines make me happy that I can put power armor in my list of most flavors and have a fighting chance. That they are playable because they are cheaper crappier marines makes me sad... so out of curiosity what books am I going to need now to effectively play a black legion, word bearers or emperor’s children legion list? Vigilus ablaze, the applicable PA, core rule book, codex, and chapter approved? All 5 of those darn books? Am I missing any?

BL vigilus,also for Legion shenanigans for Recycling marines.

WB and Ec are in pa2.

Termites,ours,will be the cheapest on the Block and handy ones at that.

Not Online!!! wrote:

macluvin wrote:
Are terminators playable yet? And now I feel pressure to finish my sonic dreadnought conversion... and dirt cheap havocs and chosen and space marines make me happy that I can put power armor in my list of most flavors and have a fighting chance. That they are playable because they are cheaper crappier marines makes me sad... so out of curiosity what books am I going to need now to effectively play a black legion, word bearers or emperor’s children legion list? Vigilus ablaze, the applicable PA, core rule book, codex, and chapter approved? All 5 of those darn books? Am I missing any?

BL vigilus,also for Legion shenanigans for Recycling marines.

WB and Ec are in pa2.

Termites,ours,will be the cheapest on the Block and handy ones at that.

Will those books contain all the rules in codex csm as well? The stratagems and what not?

macluvin wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

macluvin wrote:
Are terminators playable yet? And now I feel pressure to finish my sonic dreadnought conversion... and dirt cheap havocs and chosen and space marines make me happy that I can put power armor in my list of most flavors and have a fighting chance. That they are playable because they are cheaper crappier marines makes me sad... so out of curiosity what books am I going to need now to effectively play a black legion, word bearers or emperor’s children legion list? Vigilus ablaze, the applicable PA, core rule book, codex, and chapter approved? All 5 of those darn books? Am I missing any?

BL vigilus,also for Legion shenanigans for Recycling marines.

WB and Ec are in pa2.

Termites,ours,will be the cheapest on the Block and handy ones at that.

Will those books contain all the rules in codex csm as well? The stratagems and what not?

Nope,you still need the dex.

macluvin wrote:
Are terminators playable yet?

You can keep them "cheap" with combibolter and chainaxe. Use 10 slaanesh termis with a JP sorcerer and prescience, votlw and endless cacophony. Add a JP chaos lord to re-roll 1s to hit. Thats 80 shots hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s, +1 to wound. Or go with combiplasma and the same two HQs, thats 40 overcharged plasma shots, hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s, +1 to wound.

 p5freak wrote:

macluvin wrote:
Are terminators playable yet?

You can keep them "cheap" with combibolter and chainaxe. Use 10 slaanesh termis with a JP sorcerer and prescience, votlw and endless cacophony. Add a JP chaos lord to re-roll 1s to hit. Thats 80 shots hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s, +1 to wound. Or go with combiplasma and the same two HQs, thats 40 overcharged plasma shots, hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s, +1 to wound.

Emperor's Children Terminators could be scary from deep strike praise the prince stratagem is really strong, though I'm kind of hyped for host Raptorial emperor's children warp talons, they have a guaranteed 9 inch charge out of deep strike which puts them in direct competition with the terminators.