New Primaris Range

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**Crimson**

Whilst I think that the Primaris fluff is dumb and Guilliman coming back is basically the worst idea GW ever had, I still don't think there is need to be super dogmatic about the fluff. The Primaris shaking up the squad structures of the Space Marines is a good thing. The developers really shouldn't be limited by some guy deciding decades ago that Space Marine company has these specific squads with this specific gear or that jet bikes are super rare. Changing those things really do not fundamentally alter the setting, they're just details and if the sculptors can make more interesting models if those details are changed, then that's what they should do.

In fact, in many ways I see the Primaris aesthetic as a return to the origins of the space marines. The normal guys are more plain like their Rogur Trader counterparts.

Also.

Rogue Trader era Inceptors:

Rogue Trader marines and their Repulsor:

And hopefully we will soon get a new version of the jet bike:

**fraser1191**

Rouge trader seemed to be a wild time to be alive.

**TwinPoleTheory**

fraser1191 wrote:
Rouge trader seemed to be a wild time to be alive.

**skchsan**

LOL. That "rogue trader era repulsor" you speak of is an example of scratch building models page from white dwarf, with that particular model being made out of a empty deodorant stick bottle.

**Valkyrie**

Reemule wrote:
Valkyrie wrote:

Implementing these would make most of the regular SM obsolete,

Ohh dear. Another one that doesn't know how the movie Titanic ends...

If this is a reference to something within the film I'm lost.

**Crimson**

skchsan wrote:
LOL. That "rogue trader era repulsor" you speak of is an example of scratch building models page from white dwarf, with that particular model being made out of a empty deodorant stick bottle.

Yes, everyone knows that. But Space Marines had grav tanks back then. And now they have again. Sure enough, they took their time with the official model, but it is finally here.

**Trickstick**

Valkyrie wrote:
Reemule wrote:
Valkyrie wrote:

Implementing these would make most of the regular SM obsolete,

Ohh dear. Another one that doesn't know how the movie Titanic ends...

If this is a reference to something within the film I'm lost.

I think the idea is that it is really obvious how the film ends, as it is the most famous thing about the ship. The general attitude towards Primaris is that they are meant as a complete replacement for regular marines, so regular marines disappearing is as inevitable as the Titanic sinking.

**Insectum7**

Crimson wrote:
skchsan wrote:
LOL. That "rogue trader era repulsor" you speak of is an example of scratch building models page from white dwarf, with that particular model being made out of a empty deodorant stick bottle.

Yes, everyone knows that. But Space Marines had grav tanks back then. And now they have again. Sure enough, they took their time with the official model, but it is finally here.

*Looks at Land Speeders

You could also make skimmer tanks using the vehicle design rules in 3rd-4th Ed. That beautiful time before "no-model-no-rules".

**AegisGrimm**

Aggressors are so insanely visually superior to Centurions, I'd like to see what could be done with weapon loadouts to make them the Nu-Terminators. Make an assault variant and give their fists big underslung Chainfists (or just lightning claws) and mount some sort of Inceptor-styled weapon on a back mount for ranged fire? Maybe each one could mount a Heavy Flamer instead of the grenade launchers?

Definitely some kind of entirely Heavy Flamer/Frag Cannon/Heavy Bolter armed close-in heavy support unit of Hellblasters.

Or simply give specialists to Intercessors so they are Tactical Squads.

**Gitdakka**

Gtlimg gunner intercessors. Just take that gun of the turrentgunner on the repulsor and give that to the whole squad.

**Crimson**

Gitdakka wrote:
Gtlimg gunner intercessors. Just take that gun of the turrentgunner on the repulsor and give that to the whole squad.

I actually would prefer if guys toting such heavy weapons would wear Gravis armour, it seems suited for carrying big guns. Just have them hold them with both hands. The Gravis armour actually is a good design, but the giant mittens that the Aggressors have are not the best.

**Thargrim**

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Hard pass on jet bikes or any more hover tanks. That's a 30k thing and represents the central theme of 40k, that the Horus Heresy was a tragic event that hobbled mankind. I'm so sick of all this lost tech coming back, it's robbing the setting of what makes it unique.

I agree, and id like to see more tradional imperial vehicles sized up for primaris. But the grav and hover stuff needs to be held in check. The changes to the setting are already very questionable.

**Crimson**

I want marine vehicles to go full grav. It sets them nicely apart from the IG vehicles.

**fraser1191**

Crimson wrote:
I want marine vehicles to go full grav. It sets them nicely apart from the IG vehicles.

I see your point. Though what sets marines apart from Xenos vehicles at that point?

It would create quite a separation, marines seeming almost alien in comparison to humans

**Crimson**

fraser1191 wrote:
Though what sets marines apart from Xenos vehicles at that point?

Mainly that they look very different. All imperial vehicles have that crude boxy look, Repulsor included, while no xenos (apart Orks who have no grav) have that.

**fraser1191**

Crimson wrote:
fraser1191 wrote:
Though what sets marines apart from Xenos vehicles at that point?

Mainly that they look very different. All imperial vehicles have that crude boxy look, Repulsor included, while no xenos (apart Orks who have no grav) have that.

Fair enough.

Has there been any mention on what the campaign after Vigilus is? I assume the second book will have a large chaos release as opposed to marines

**Kithail**

I want some sort of assault primaris squad, perhaps melee inceptors, or "assault intercessors", some sort of devastator aggressors, and some melta carrying squad. Having aggresors to be able to switch between bolters, flamers or melta covers the last. And perhaps heavy weapon intercessors? I'd like grav to be reworked. Not the STUPID OP thing of 7th, but having a workable niche.

**casvalremdeikun**

Crimson wrote:
I want marine vehicles to go full grav. It sets them nicely apart from the IG vehicles.

I could see that. There isn't a ton of difference when you sit a Rhino next to a Chimera. Plus, Grav means they will have fly, so they won't suffer as many of the issues of the Land Raider or other tracked Marine vehicles.

I just hope they don't use the Repulsor as the basis for all the eventual Primaris vehicles. It is way too big. I want something that is the size of a Rhino to form the basis for most other vehicles.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kithail wrote:
I want some sort of assault primaris squad, perhaps melee inceptors, or "assault intercessors", some sort of devastator aggressors, and some melta carrying squad. Having aggresors to be able to switch between bolters, flamers or melta covers the last. And perhaps heavy weapon intercessors? I'd like grav to be reworked. Not the STUPID OP thing of 7th, but having a workable niche.

Hellblasters essentially are Heavy Weapon Intercessors though.

**Stormonu**

Crimson wrote:
fraser1191 wrote:
Though what sets marines apart from Xenos vehicles at that point?

Mainly that they look very different. All imperial vehicles have that crude boxy look, Repulsor included, while no xenos (apart Orks who have no grav) have that.

Grav does seem more in line with the Marine's "lightning-fast strike force", meant to get in, terrorize the enemy and move on. The guard is the trundling force that crushes you underfoot with tracked vehicles and plodding machines.

And as mentioned, the imperium tends to have a crude look to their grav, whereas Eldar are "graceful" and the Tau seem to be sliding towards battlesuits and away from skimmers.

**kingheff**

A rhino replacement for primaris seems like the biggest problem for primaris at the moment, footslogging with units that want to get close isn't great, especially when you can't assault and shoot outside of a few weapon loadouts.
I like the idea of reiver quads, maybe in squads of 3-9. Give the quads a 12" movement, a twin carbine and the reivers their combat blades. Give them a fall back and shoot and/or charge ability and you've got a nice mobile anti chaff unit which should look pretty badass to boot.
Giving intercessors and reivers access to one plasma and combi plasma per squad would help out those units a great deal.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Bharring wrote:
"The amount of self-contradiction here is hilarious. You're deliberately acting like two different sub-units cant work together. That's the entire underlining theory about combined arms warfare."
A Fire Dragon and a Banshee can't work together the way a modern soldier with a Machine Gun and a Rifle can.

A Fire Dragon Shrine and a Banshee Shrine can - and do - work together the way a modern infantry unit and modern tank can. That's what "Swordwind" is all about.

The Aspects *do* go to war together, but they don't intermix units like modern soldiers or 40k Marines do.

Not intermixing is exactly why Aspect Warriors work, as they actually have specific jobs they need to do. Obviously the quality of the job has varied, but compare that to Marines where you get like 3 units for the same role but only one is good, or saying that you can take multiple weapons for flexibility, which would make sense if you picked the upgrades based on the army you were facing.

**Racerguy180**

casvalremdeikun wrote:I want a small squad transport, basically a Razorback. It doesn't even need to be a Grav tank. Make it a wheeled transport for all I care. Only give it some light weapons though. I would like to see something like a twin Plasma Incinerator or two on it. Don't go crazy with weapons like the Repulsor. It should be cheap (150 pts or less).

I wouldn't mind seeing new bikes. The current kit came out so long ago it is disgusting. No Grav bikes though. Give them bikes or an ATV/quad. But really, the purpose of bikes is taken up by Inceptors anyway. They would have to do something really unique to be remotely necessary.

Primaris Terminators are basically covered by Aggressors, though there needs to be a heavy weapon variant. Or perhaps even a Melta variant. What Primaris lack is man-portable anti-vehicle/heavy weapons. Hellblasters just don't cut it. I think Aggressors would be a great platform to put a Melta weapon on (their advance and shoot ability begs for a Melta weapon). Maybe even with an alternate backpack launcher (Krakstorm grenade launcher maybe?)

Lastly, a dedicated, power-weapon using close combat squad would be nice. Preferably with some mobility. Maybe just an Inceptor variant.

The thing is, for both Inceptors and Aggressors, these could be handled with a simple upgrade sprue. Both kits are already designed to fit two different weapons, just add a third or fourth one.

I would dig an atv/sxs wheeled vehicle for primaris. razorback equiv should be 100pts for chassis & "normal" primaris weapons a quad ironhail or something cool looking.

Crimson wrote:Whilst I think that the Primaris fluff is dumb and Guilliman coming back is basically the worst idea GW ever had, I still don't think there is need to be super dogmatic about the fluff. The Primaris shaking up the squad structures of the Space Marines is a good thing. The developers really shouldn't be limited by some guy deciding decades ago that Space Marine company has these specific squads with this specific gear or that jet bikes are super rare. Changing those things really do not fundamentally alter the setting, they're just details and if the sculptors can make more interesting models if those details are changed, then that's what they should do.

In fact, in many ways I see the Primaris aesthetic as a return to the origins of the space marines. The normal guys are more plain like their Rogur Trader counterparts.

Also.

Rogue Trader era Inceptors:

Rogue Trader marines and their Repulsor:

And hopefully we will soon get a new version of the jet bike:

hitting all the right memberberries.
it's like GW is doing this on purpose? retro is cool.

fraser1191 wrote:Rouge trader seemed to be a wild time to be alive.

vortex, tanglefoot & hallucinogen grenades were sooo much fun. you'd just show up to game store w whatever models you had and no one cared about anything but the bat-gak insanity on the table.

**Wyzilla**

Sterling191 wrote:
Bharring wrote:

A Fire Dragon and a Banshee can't work together the way a modern soldier with a Machine Gun and a Rifle can.

Best tell all the Craftworld warhosts to go home then, they're not allowed to fight together.

They can't. A Banshee and Fire Dragon squad are separate units, likely fielded in completely different "divisions" of the Eldar Warhost. They aren't part of the squad itself, able to provide support on the spot. Specialized units is a fething moronic concept that needs to die as it makes no sense. Giving everybody in a squad the same gun is asking for that squad to die the second combat isn't going their way. It'd be like outfitting a unit of (US) Marines purely with Gustavs. Sure they'll kill the gak out of tanks, but they only have a couple rounds of ammunition before they're completely vulnerable, have zero ability to participate in a prolonged fight, and are incredibly vulnerable of being overrun. This is even worse in 40k where you have to deal with hordes numbering in the millions which mindlessly charge into melee. Mono-loadouts are bad and make no sense at all when one looks at even early 20th century armies.

**Dovis**

Crimson wrote:
Gitdakka wrote:
Gtlimg gunner intercessors. Just take that gun of the turrentgunner on the repulsor and give that to the whole squad.

I actually would prefer if guys toting such heavy weapons would wear Gravis armour, it seems suited for carrying big guns. Just have them hold them with both hands. The Gravis armour actually is a good design, but the giant mittens that the Aggressors have are not the best.

I drop the mittens for the Assault Bolters from the Inceptor kit, looks way, way better overall

**Sterling191**

Wyzilla wrote:

They can't. A Banshee and Fire Dragon squad are separate units, likely fielded in completely different "divisions" of the Eldar Warhost.

Wrong.

It's really amusing how obsessed with transferring tabletop rules to fluff some folks are.

**Karol**

Dont they have like separate temples, that often hate each other like the s spears and dark reapers?

**Sterling191**

Karol wrote:
Dont they have like separate temples, that often hate each other like the s spears and dark reapers?

It's mostly analogous to inter-branch rivalry, mixed with emo space elf politics. Once a warhost is called it all gets set aside cause gak needs killing.

At the end of the day they're all war-priests to the same god.

**Wyzilla**

Sterling191 wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:

They can't. A Banshee and Fire Dragon squad are separate units, likely fielded in completely different "divisions" of the Eldar Warhost.

Wrong.

It's really amusing how obsessed with transferring tabletop rules to fluff some folks are.

No, I'm right. Per Eldar novels and organization according to the Codex fluff, they aren't fielded in mixed squads. An Aspect squad consists of a mono-aspect, headed by the exarch which heads the particular shrine of that squad. They fight alongside each other, but a Striking Scorpion unit consists purely of Striking Scorpions. They do not have a Dark Reaper to provide suppression or a Fire Dragon to supply anti-tank support in the squad itself.

**Karol**

I don't know I read a book about an eldar farseer from one of the craftworlds, who was an ex dark reaper herself and she hated the s spears, so much that she was sending anyone who runes told here could become an s spear in the future to their deaths. She even sold the s spear autarch to the eldar to multilate in the arena. along some non pro dark reaper farseers. Seems a bit more then inter-branch rivalry to me.

Maybe more like DEA and CIA trying to kill each other dudes in Honduras or something like that.

**Sterling191**

Wyzilla wrote:

No, I'm right. Per Eldar novels and organization according to the Codex fluff, they aren't fielded in mixed squads. An Aspect squad consists of a mono-aspect, headed by the exarch which heads the particular shrine of that squad. They fight alongside each other, but a Striking Scorpion unit consists purely of Striking Scorpions. They do not have a Dark Reaper to provide suppression or a Fire Dragon to supply anti-tank support in the squad itself.

Squads and battlefield units arent the same thing. That's the whole point of Autarchs: to unify and deploy a warhost into ad-hoc elements based on the tactical needs of the situation from available Aspect Warriors, Guardians and Wraith forces. Exarchs, Warlocks and Spiritseers serve as junior officers / NCOs to their respective folks and the end result is a rounded deployment comprised of specialists supported by basic infantry and war machines of various types.

The Craftworlds don't send a single team of a single Aspect to fight a battle.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karol wrote:
I don't know I read a book about an eldar farseer from one of the craftworlds, who was an ex dark reaper herself and she hated the s spears, so much that she was sending anyone who runes told here could become an s spear in the future to their deaths. She even sold the s spear autarch to the eldar to multilate in the arena. along some non pro dark reaper farseers. Seems a bit more then inter-branch rivalry to me.

Maybe more like DEA and CIA trying to kill each other dudes in Honduras or something like that.

That's not remotely the norm, anymore than say the Flesh Tearers and their assholery are the norm for Astartes.