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Dredd 2012 also has a better character study of Justice Department, and indeed Judge Dredd.

Consider. Anderson was a wash out. She'd failed. Dredd took her out, and ultimately, she should've been a failure. Worse, she's a mutie.

But, we see Dredd discover what the Chief Judge was angling at. Had it not been for Anderson's presence in Peach Trees, they never would've caught Mama in time. Remember, Mama was looking to start pedalling her filth in other blocks - and Slo-Mo was already becoming a threat to the city.

I'd argue it's a better intro to the unaware than Judge Dredd. It's about Justice Department, and Dredd being the living embodiment of it's absolute ruthlessness. He's controlled. He's precise, and yes, he's vindictive.

Throwing Mama off the balcony is one. Throwing her henchmen is another. But even so - he's still less sadistic than those he's up against. He didn't skin either of them before throwing them. Mama left him no choice on her count. Yes it was a risk with the detonator, but the only other choice is unconscionable. Letting Mama live. What sort of a message does that send to other Citizens? Especially when it's Dredd being seen to compromise.

The difference between the two? When Urban's Dredd says that immortal line 'I am, The Law' - he really, really means it. He is an avatar of The Law. At all times.

Quite a good point, MDG. The law really is vindictive, in the literal sense.

I think to some degree dredd did care about people in some ways. Just in a kind of distant way.

When he saw the massacre mama committed to take him and the gang member out, I think it bothered him to see so many peopel massacred so casually. Throwing mama's boy down the shaft in front of her was his declaration of war, as in "Yeah, you're gonna pay for this."

BTW, was it kinda cold of me to sing the line "It's raining men! " when mama's gang tossed the guys off the balcony?

One point: Anderson didn't fail her assessment because she lost her primary weapon. She never lost her psi power, and that was her primary weapon. Lawgiver pistols roll off assembly lines. Her psi powers don't.

Exactly.

Anderon's use to Justice Department goes beyond The Slab. She can crack people that would resist standard interrogation. And often does in the comics.

Justice Department is a fascistic organisation. It's downright cruel to it's Citizens. They don't like something? They'll make it illegal, and come after you.

I think the main flaw for me in Dredd is that it could've spent a bit more time explaining why Justice Department is the way it is. You get Dredd's monologue at the beginning, and his primer to Anderson about 'we can respond to X%, your show, Rookie'. But we didn't really see the sorts of crimes they're up against in MC-1.

And finally, a fave. Because Anderson is ace!

If you want to see how dark and serious dredd comics have got, try "day of chaos fallout" and especially the story 'the pits".

Also, Dredd doesn't care for people. That's not his training. That's not his (literal) breeding. He cares for the city. That is his charge. That is his duty.

Not entirely true. He’s not being sarcastic when he assesses Anderson’s sentiments as admirable.

Admirable, but not necessarily shared.

Though comics wise, he really starts to develop as a character when he starts doubting things. His former Mentor, Judge Minty advises it's normal, and to start wearing boots one size too small. The pinching takes your mind off it.

They are putting out prequel novels that delve into how the system came into being. Also one or two prequel strips following the first proto judges around a crappy America as it shambles towards the nuclear war that will ruin everything.

And Dredd does change over time, even pushing through laws that improve things for some or revising his views on things like say, democracy.

The first time there was a march for democracy he thoroughly sabotaged it with the Wally squad sowing dissent, but the second time around, post-America IIRC, he just let them have their march followed by a vote to see if the Judges should remain in power and they did, because he knew that the majority of people just couldn't care enough about it.

 BrookM wrote:
...the second time around, post-America IIRC, he just let them have their march followed by a vote to see if the Judges should remain in power and they did, because he knew that the majority of people just couldn't care enough about it.

Even that was twenty years ago now though, and he is still hard-line though. Arguably because of circumstances, of course.

I can highly recommend ‘Origins’.

It’s surprising in many aspects...

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
This is the one that copies The Raid?

That is totally incorrect. The Raid straight up ripped off Dredd; Dredd was in development before The Raid and when The Raid creators realized their movie was a complete clone of the Dredd film that was in-development, they rushed it to get it released first.
timeline: Dredd film announced 2008, and a complete draft of the script was leaked in 2010. The Raid began production in March of 2011.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:
Not at all. The Raid is not a Judge Dredd movie. You keep harping on The Raid but the fact that both movies used a similar structure for similar reasons (budget constraints) is the only relevant point. No one who likes Dredd because it’s a Judge Dredd movie is ever going to consider The Raid a preferable alternative because it’s not a Judge Dredd movie.

Especially because The Raid is not a very good film.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Luciferian wrote:
Dredd 2012 has way more of a sense of humor than people are giving it credit for, it's just in the details.

This is correct. Tonally, Dredd is far more accurate to all eras of the comics. While big colors and lumpy city-blocks make the JD95 film seem "more accurate", there is nothing even remotely similar in that film compared to the comics, except for some character names.

Wow, hot takes.

In the spirit of reconciliation, and appreciation that Dredd, after over 40 years of consecutive stories means different things to different people?

I’d like to dedicate this to Judge Joseph Dredd. Because when that Man comes around? You know it’s serial.




If I had Skillz, I’d do a video edit of both movies to this track.

Dredd has definitely evolved over time with lots of stylistic and tonal changes, and I dont think either flick encompasses the totality of that, nor could they really, and thats fine. That said, the 2012 flick really did it for me, I don't have much against it. Though someone else said the 95 movie captured MC1 better, and in some ways, especially the earlier stories, thats true.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


The difference between the two? When Urban's Dredd says that immortal line 'I am, The Law' - he really, really means it. He is an avatar of The Law. At all times.

^^^^

Urban's Dredd calmly, almost whispering "I am the law" as a simple statement of fact was an order of magnitude more threatening and impressive than Stallone's Dredd blustering out that line as a defense against a criminal charge.

I had minor issues with dredd but they were MINOR.

The "incendiary" scene. I jsut find it impossible that a shot the size of a 9mm bullet could produce a burst of flaming fragments that could immolate a pretty large area and set over a dozen spread out people on fire. It was a nicely done scene but it was just impossible to believe.

Also who wants to start a fire that large in a densely populated area?


If dredd had pulled something off his belt like the save of an egg or something smiliar, clipped it to his barrel and then fired i could have bought that. But it was minor.

Also dredd hitting mama with slomo just seemed wrong. Slomo is illegal, y'know, tho I wonder why since it's users seemed pretty placid while under it.

but those were minor.

Ahhhhhh! On the Slo-mo charge?

What did Mama do at the start? Did Dredd meet her level of cruelty, or dispense Justice?

Clearly, it’s the latter. Near Biblical Judgement. Do unto others and so on. Even when Mama’s demise is entirely upon her own shoulders, Dredd does not match her blow for blow. No skinning. Just a shot of her own poison, and a long, slow drop.*

As for the phosphor shot? Somewhere as cramped as MC-1 (and I accept the external shots didn’t really get that across), a starburst phosphor flare is possibly the very dab?


*Did anyone else get a visceral thrill when seeing how the CGI effect had her face properly split on impact? I did. Not in a kinky way, just an ‘actually, yeah. The body would do that’ way.

Slo-mo is illegal, sure. So is murder.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Ahhhhhh! On the Slo-mo charge?

What did Mama do at the start? Did Dredd meet her level of cruelty, or dispense Justice?

Clearly, it’s the latter. Near Biblical Judgement. Do unto others and so on. Even when Mama’s demise is entirely upon her own shoulders, Dredd does not match her blow for blow. No skinning. Just a shot of her own poison, and a long, slow drop.*

As for the phosphor shot? Somewhere as cramped as MC-1 (and I accept the external shots didn’t really get that across), a starburst phosphor flare is possibly the very dab?


*Did anyone else get a visceral thrill when seeing how the CGI effect had her face properly split on impact? I did. Not in a kinky way, just an ‘actually, yeah. The body would do that’ way.

I have ZERO problem with dredd tossing her off the balcony. That was about saving the people in the block from her FU bombs. That was actually explained in the movie. That wasn't a crimes that was a necessity created by mama herself.

The slomo was unnecessary and use of an illegal drug. Did dredd think it might keep heartbeat even during the fall? Well, ok. But if he did it to make her suffer I think it mega failed. The whole falling scene suggested she accepted her death and kind of enjoyed the fall. And earlier she'd said she always knew death was part of the life she was in.

Nows trying to translate English to American, i'm assuming your phrase "possibly the very dab" means in American "it was no big deal". Well, normally in a very dense high population area a fire is a bit of a big deal as fire has a tendency to spread when given a chance. . Maybe MC1 architecture focuses on making fire spread less likely.

One of the high-level themes of the film is, who decides what order means? Mama runs Peach Trees as her own empire in a city where, as we learn, only a tiny fraction of the vast amount of crime can even be contemplated by the “legitimate” government. The audience is asked to consider, is Mama’s reign any worse, or put it another way, any less legitimate than the Justice Department’s? And moreover, doesn’t the inability of the Justice Department to actually govern Mega City One sort of justify the ambitions of smart, ruthless gangsters like Mama?

The movie depicts three visions of justice. The first and most pragmatic is that might makes right. This is Mama’s theory, except she doens’t really care what is “right” in any idealistic sense. She was used and abused and has built up her power mostly as a way to make sure she never gets used and abused again, which means she will be the one using and abusing from here out. For her, power is about never being the victim again because you are the highest on the food chain. The second vision holds that the law itself is sacrosanct and violators deserve the harshest punishment. Judge Dredd himself is the symbol of this philosophy. Lastly, there is the notion that laws exist to protect the weak from the predations of the strong, which is Cass Anderson’s idealistic POV.

The movie doesn’t tell us which is correct; it just asks us to think about these theories and their strong points as well as their flaws.

You can perfectly well consider that Dredd uses the slo-mo on Mama because he really is just a fascistic, sadistic bully boy. Or you can consider that Mama’s punishment fits the crime (lex talionis), as MDS argued above. Or you can guess that the slo-mo had something to do with Dredd saving Peach Trees.

The ambiguity is only reinforced by Dredd’s decision to pass Anderson even considering that Anderson herself thinks she has failed. Both Dredd and Anderson, like the audience, have occasion to reconsider the views they begin the movie with — and I like to think that right before she hits, Mama does some rethinking, too.

Dredd had a minor change, he realized that despite "duh roolz" saying Anderson wasn't fit to be a judge, she was.

Anderson changed a little. Early on dredd had to push her to execute a wounded perp on his knees. Near the end she headshot a wounded man without a millisecond hesitation or even a side long glance.


I just watched dredd again, and noted everything in MC1 had a very heavy duty, durable, built to last look. Speakers had heavy steel mesh cages over them, cable connections looked old fashioned and made to last. So did keyboards, etc.

The meme seemed to me that in MC1 the idea of stuff being cheap and disposable was no longer in vouge. Things were meant to last as long as possible. They were built big, durable, simple to use, not like a lot of stuff meant to wear out in couple years like today. MC1 could not support that level of waste like we have today.

That’s a very insightful point. I think it visually supports the thematic suggestion that, by and large, citizens are mostly on their own because there is no way the Justice Department, or any aspect of society, can keep up with the burgeoning population and by extension the depredations of human nature.

Heh heh, thank you. looking at the movie it seemed that peopel were the only thing easily disposable and recyclable. Hardware mattered more.

I was reminded of the 40k mentality that a guardsman is easier and cheaper to replace than his gear.

Seeing it for £3.99 on Prime, got a digital copy of the Stallone one.

You know, it’s not as bad as I remember. Plot wise it’s a hitch potch of various Dredd Epics. And I still stand by the argument it got the look of MC-1 absolutely spot on.

But man. There are still so, so many flaws with it. No Eagles on anyone but Dredd. Bent Judges going to Aspen. Dredd and Rico not being identical. Dredd’s ‘I knew you’d say that’ thing.

Dredd is still the better movie and representation of the man himself. But Judge Dredd still has stuff to enjoy.

My favorite thing about Stallone Dredd is that you get to see Cursed Earth and the Angel Gang, both of which feature prominently in the comics. It's fun, even if they're just a symptom of the filmmakers trying to pack in as many of the iconic visual elements of the comics as they could.

Dredd is much more a "day in the life" film that gives you a glimpse into an average day in MC1, with a "minor" villain and self-contained storyline. As such, it's more like a single issue of the comic rather than being a conglomeration of lots of representative imagery and ideas from across the whole series. I'm glad they both exist because both approaches still have their merits, but I still think Dredd 2012 is a better film and a better representation of what reading the comics is like.

It should come as no surprise I am a bit of a fan of Dredd (I do like the rurus after all). While I didn't enjoy the Stallone Movie when it came out, it spurred me to find out about the (obviously better) source material.

Dredd 2012 actually succeeds at being a Dredd film, while the Stallone movie is nothing but a thin paintjob over a generic action flick.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:


I think budget concerns is why MC looks a tad dull, no point splashing money for the brief opening prior to getting stuck in Peach Trees (which should have had a british celeb name, but global audience I guess)

still a great movie mind

IIRC, "Peach Trees" is the name of the restaurant where the director first met with the IP holders to discuss the project.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Seeing it for £3.99 on Prime, got a digital copy of the Stallone one.

You know, it’s not as bad as I remember. Plot wise it’s a hitch potch of various Dredd Epics. And I still stand by the argument it got the look of MC-1 absolutely spot on.

But man. There are still so, so many flaws with it. No Eagles on anyone but Dredd. Bent Judges going to Aspen. Dredd and Rico not being identical. Dredd’s ‘I knew you’d say that’ thing.

Dredd is still the better movie and representation of the man himself. But Judge Dredd still has stuff to enjoy.

Fun fact about the eagle and Stallone's costume in general is that he pushed for that himself. He actually went behind the producers back to the costume department and told them to make his costume as comic accurate as possible. Sly did respect the source material a lot and I do remember him talking about being very peeved at the fact that he was made to remove his helmet in the movie.

According to my sources, he didn't really know Dredd at all, and did the opposite?

I mean, a lovey dovey scene with Hershey? Puhlease.

I didn't like the Stallone Dredd because they tried to carm it full of every story arc out of the comics. Too much bloat. Just stick to one story arc and make it interesting. If you gonna visit the cursed eart, make the movie about cursed earth. Not just a stupid short hop into it and back again...

They used just about every major arc in the movie as a cameo, exept maybe Judge Death... Bleargh.

I liked the 2012 Dredd much more. Nice tight story. No world shattering stuff, but just a day in a Judges life.

Raid was kind of fun at the start, but the constant action grew old pretty fast. I very much prefer the original (Dredd) over the copy (Raid).