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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 11:14:51
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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H.B.M.C. wrote: Yodhrin wrote:They're being less abrupt than they were with WHF, but in the end the ultimatum to existing fans is the same; get on board or get lost.
So how long 'til they do a 'world shattering' event where the repository of Space Marine Geneseed on Terra is lost and, combined with the massive grind of war, the various Chapters now find it impossible to create new Marines, leaving only Cawl's Primaris Marines as replaceable. 
About 9-10 months, only it won't be as well written as your explanation.
As for there unwritten ultimatum I can only hope that Age of Gulliman is as "successful" as AoS was at launch.
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Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 11:45:33
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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IIRC Uriel Ventris made the Primaris transition last year in one of the event only book.
edit :
see :
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353551-primarchs-scion-of-the-emperor-anthology/page-3
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 12:46:57
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Sword-Wielding Bloodletter of Khorne
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Why do some players want Oldmarines to be gone so badly?
Given the different aesthetics and battlefield roles, I think there is space for both Oldmarines and Primaris to co-exist.
The whole debate sounds more like a case of 'I told you that evil GeeDubz is screwing you over', than actually support for either of the marines.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 12:56:36
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Mighty Vampire Count
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Darkseid wrote:Why do some players want Oldmarines to be gone so badly?
Given the different aesthetics and battlefield roles, I think there is space for both Oldmarines and Primaris to co-exist.
The whole debate sounds more like a case of 'I told you that evil GeeDubz is screwing you over', than actually support for either of the marines.
What I don't want is for GWs resources to be split between Marine and Bigger marines (as well as all the FW Marines) rather than continue to support other lines which they have done more of over the last few years.
We have a huge bloated range for Marines already - the base range has everything it will ever need - unlike almost every other faction.....
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I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page
A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 12:57:20
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Dakka Veteran
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Darkseid wrote:Why do some players want Oldmarines to be gone so badly?
Given the different aesthetics and battlefield roles, I think there is space for both Oldmarines and Primaris to co-exist.
The whole debate sounds more like a case of 'I told you that evil GeeDubz is screwing you over', than actually support for either of the marines.
I want it because I find deluded ramblings about manlets staying around forever, or Japanese blind boxes showing the range is in rude heath tedious. Also, the quicker they make the transition the less the lore will suffer. I'm not too bothered by the Primaris lore myself, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't have preferred them being introduced as the new, upscaled SM range. Ultimately this happened after Rogue Trader, it happened after 2nd edition and who still plays with 3rd edition tactical squads? Just use your old army for historical wars (Badab) and buy a new army for "current" ones. Everyone has done it multiple times before after all.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/10 12:58:47
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 14:50:29
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
Ottawa
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Mr Morden wrote: Darkseid wrote:Why do some players want Oldmarines to be gone so badly?
Given the different aesthetics and battlefield roles, I think there is space for both Oldmarines and Primaris to co-exist.
The whole debate sounds more like a case of 'I told you that evil GeeDubz is screwing you over', than actually support for either of the marines.
What I don't want is for GWs resources to be split between Marine and Bigger marines (as well as all the FW Marines) rather than continue to support other lines which they have done more of over the last few years.
We have a huge bloated range for Marines already - the base range has everything it will ever need - unlike almost every other faction.....
I don't follow. If the Old Marine range has everything it will ever need, then how would resources be split between Old Marines and Primaris?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 14:57:00
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Mighty Vampire Count
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Lemondish wrote: Mr Morden wrote: Darkseid wrote:Why do some players want Oldmarines to be gone so badly?
Given the different aesthetics and battlefield roles, I think there is space for both Oldmarines and Primaris to co-exist.
The whole debate sounds more like a case of 'I told you that evil GeeDubz is screwing you over', than actually support for either of the marines.
What I don't want is for GWs resources to be split between Marine and Bigger marines (as well as all the FW Marines) rather than continue to support other lines which they have done more of over the last few years.
We have a huge bloated range for Marines already - the base range has everything it will ever need - unlike almost every other faction.....
I don't follow. If the Old Marine range has everything it will ever need, then how would resources be split between Old Marines and Primaris?
Because they keep remaking the same stuff - have done for years - how many Tac/Assault/ Dev Marines have they done and then again for different Chapter and stupid flanderisation like naything over the last few years for the Wolves.
I was delighted to see a Sniper unit - that was the sort of thing that they could have done years ago rather than Wolfy Wolf Wulf Wulves. The Sniper unit could work for all Chapters...
Hell do Chapter Thrall/Helots/Serfs as a unit. New stuff is fine but IMO not Flander specials or just remaking the same old units for the Same old Chapters.
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I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page
A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 15:15:13
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Posts with Authority
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This entire set is a buy for me.
Certainly hoping to see the Primaris folded into Deathwatch, as well as Kill-Team. I'm a big fan of the entire 'tactical' aesthetic they're going with on these dudes. I'm very curious about everything else in the box, and hope it's not entirely an easy-to-build kit. Monopose kits are great unless you're a huge fan of kitbashing and customizing things.
Also hoping a CSM kit means a new CSM ruleset for Kill Team. The limitations for them are currently outright pathetic.
I personally think the old Marines are going to be phased out, and 'Primaris' will be the only types- you'll be able to use your old marines as a valid model, and Primaris marines will have all the options that the old ones had- they'll just be "Space Marines".
And yet, the stupidest thing I've heard so far about this inevitable phase-out of the old models is "I prefer my old Space Marines, how are they going to look up against big Primaris Marines". You'd think that after literal decades of the models being updated from "weird hunchbacked bowlegged jet-face dudes" to the more recent models, you'd have learned to get over it and deal with it somehow, but I suppose gamers are gonna be gamers. Otherwise all the griping I seem to hear is about what some other people seem to enjoy, which is exactly why online 40k communities tend to be regarded as cesspits of grognards that just can't let go, or perpetual whiners looking for attention.
And I realize there's wailing and gnashing of teeth. But this is Warhammer 40k. A massive amount of the player base does nothing but whine and cry, no matter what gets released. You can't please everyone, and one of the unfortunate side-effects of the internet is that it is a soapbox for anyone who wants to piss and moan about something.
But hey, for all the negative people seem to say about the new Primaris stuff, it certainly seems successful enough for them to keep running with it.
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Mob Rule is not a rule. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 16:14:42
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Committed Chaos Cult Marine
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Adeptus Doritos wrote:This entire set is a buy for me.
Certainly hoping to see the Primaris folded into Deathwatch, as well as Kill-Team. I'm a big fan of the entire 'tactical' aesthetic they're going with on these dudes. I'm very curious about everything else in the box, and hope it's not entirely an easy-to-build kit. Monopose kits are great unless you're a huge fan of kitbashing and customizing things.
Also hoping a CSM kit means a new CSM ruleset for Kill Team. The limitations for them are currently outright pathetic.
Me too.
I am sure that the new Primaris units will get a Kill Team mention. They seem designed for small covert operations. The librarian will likely be for commanders, but I think it would have been awesome if Kill Team broke 40k rules and basically made him am Adeptus Astartes only Aspiring Sorcerer like data sheet maybe with the drawback of must be Leader of the team (no hiding for you!). On a personal note, it feels kinda too bad that I just finished my Kill Team scout squad before hearing about these guys. They look so good. However, the scouts will likely still be the cheap option so I am not too broken up about it. I am just looking forward to painting the new stuff in Raptor colors.
I don't do much kit bashing nor customizing anyways, so monopose doesn't bother me. I can't see how the cloaked units can be anything but that. The Chaos Space Marines look like they could have the usual poseability mostly in the arms and head. They might not have it at the waist, which really, which isn't that big of loss to me anyways.
I kinda doubt that the new Chaos Space Marines mean a whole lot of new stuff in Kill Team. The best I think I can hope for from the preview so additional options (like chain axes) that could be added. I think CSM kill team could use an additional data sheet. I personally would like Chosen to be added in Kill Team, but I don't know how disruptive that would be given how greatly that increases the faction's special weapon limit for basically an extra point of two. Between Chosen and regular CSM, the whole kill team could probably be outfitted with special weapons. Seems like too much.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 18:35:42
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Dakka Veteran
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I predict the full contents of the box will be..
Chaos -
Sorcerer guy
5 chaos space marines
5 possessed
2 oblits
Venom crawler
Marines -
Librarian
5 scout Primaris as.seen in the artwork
3 to 5 snipers
3 Imperial bike things with heavy weapons options
Think bikes/speeders for the marines would match up with the scout style and would give much needed firepower to the vanguard marines
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 18:50:39
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Dakka Veteran
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if obliterators are to get buffed stats ... I still hope they come in units of 3
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 18:55:02
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
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Rogerio134134 wrote:I predict the full contents of the box will be..
Chaos -
Sorcerer guy
5 chaos space marines
5 possessed
2 oblits
Venom crawler
Marines -
Librarian
5 scout Primaris as.seen in the artwork
3 to 5 snipers
3 Imperial bike things with heavy weapons options
Think bikes/speeders for the marines would match up with the scout style and would give much needed firepower to the vanguard marines
I’m thinking both the bearded captain and the lieutenant shown in the artwork will have to be in the box too. Showing them so prominently and then not including them would be a major departure for how they’ve done artwork for these boxes in the past. Similarly, I would expect any bikes to actually show up in the art if they’re in the box.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 19:37:34
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Cause at the primaris scale, they look MUCH better.
Hopefully once enough primaris stuff is out there, and the primaris scaled chaos stuff, other factions like GK, etc all get released, then the will just get rid of this primaris from fluff, and just make them the standard marines as it should be.
Darkseid wrote:Why do some players want Oldmarines to be gone so badly?
Given the different aesthetics and battlefield roles, I think there is space for both Oldmarines and Primaris to co-exist.
The whole debate sounds more like a case of 'I told you that evil GeeDubz is screwing you over', than actually support for either of the marines.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 19:58:39
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Sword-Wielding Bloodletter of Khorne
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StarFyre wrote:Cause at the primaris scale, they look MUCH better.
Hopefully once enough primaris stuff is out there, and the primaris scaled chaos stuff, other factions like GK, etc all get released, then the will just get rid of this primaris from fluff, and just make them the standard marines as it should be.
I agree on that; Primaris are GWs answer to years of 'truescale' marines people have been building on their own.
Still Primaris are not 1:1 comparable to Oldmarines, and therefore not a replacement. In portrail and aesthetics Primaris are a military task force, or Reasonable Marines as some internet denizens would call them. Their clean futuristic looks charter to people who like traditional Scifi settings, where as Oldmarines still embody the mediaeval-scifi look. This in my opinion is one of the reasons that there is room for them to co-exsist.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 19:59:26
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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StarFyre wrote:Cause at the primaris scale, they look MUCH better.
Hopefully once enough primaris stuff is out there, and the primaris scaled chaos stuff, other factions like GK, etc all get released, then the will just get rid of this primaris from fluff, and just make them the standard marines as it should be.
Problem is they are too big for space marines. Removing old marines would be bad news also for HH players. Primaris models CANNOT be used there. They are head too big for SPACE MARINES.
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2024 painted/bought: 109/109 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 20:17:10
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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tneva82 wrote:
Problem is they are too big for space marines. Removing old marines would be bad news also for HH players. Primaris models CANNOT be used there. They are head too big for SPACE MARINES.
Could you stop repeating this nonsense? Compared to GWs normal humans, the Primaris are about seven and half feet tall, which is roughly how tall the Space Marines are supposed to be.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 20:27:52
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
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Crimson wrote:tneva82 wrote:
Problem is they are too big for space marines. Removing old marines would be bad news also for HH players. Primaris models CANNOT be used there. They are head too big for SPACE MARINES.
Could you stop repeating this nonsense? Compared to GWs normal humans, the Primaris are about seven and half feet tall, which is roughly how tall the Space Marines are supposed to be.
More importantly than scale ( imo), they also have actually somewhat reasonable proportions. They are not flawless, but ever since their introduction I just can't use normal marines anymore. They look so silly.
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I should think of a new signature... In the meantime, have a |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 20:28:18
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Posts with Authority
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tneva82 wrote:Problem is they are too big for space marines. Removing old marines would be bad news also for HH players. Primaris models CANNOT be used there. They are head too big for SPACE MARINES.
So what you're saying is that the average guardsman, eldar wych, rogue trader, and Tau is about 7 feet tall...?
And HH players might need to accept the fact that HH isn't going to be around much longer.
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Mob Rule is not a rule. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 20:28:58
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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Ashiraya wrote:
More importantly than scale ( imo), they also have actually somewhat reasonable proportions. They are not flawless, but ever since their introduction I just can't use normal marines anymore. They look so silly.
Yep.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 20:29:35
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Elite Tyranid Warrior
France
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I also think that Primaris are just better looking than old marines. But the real problem is that they are also way more streamlined, so much that they have very little diversity in gear option. I'm shocked at the complete poverty of primaris kit compared to old marine kits.
Putting that aside, I'm sure to buy the new box. Those miniatures are absolutly gorgeous, especially that sneaky librarian.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 20:29:42
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Mighty Vampire Count
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Adeptus Doritos wrote:tneva82 wrote:Problem is they are too big for space marines. Removing old marines would be bad news also for HH players. Primaris models CANNOT be used there. They are head too big for SPACE MARINES.
So what you're saying is that the average guardsman, eldar wych, rogue trader, and Tau is about 7 feet tall...?
And HH players might need to accept the fact that HH isn't going to be around much longer.
I have Marines from all editions - happy to mix and match - not all Marines are the same size of shape imo....
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I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page
A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 20:57:30
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I wouldn't be surprised if GW see the HH setting as a way to keep selling non Primaris kits. Especially if it gets to the siege of Terra and moves into the scouring where mk7 became available.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 21:25:35
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Dakka Veteran
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Ashiraya wrote: Crimson wrote:tneva82 wrote:
Problem is they are too big for space marines. Removing old marines would be bad news also for HH players. Primaris models CANNOT be used there. They are head too big for SPACE MARINES.
Could you stop repeating this nonsense? Compared to GWs normal humans, the Primaris are about seven and half feet tall, which is roughly how tall the Space Marines are supposed to be.
More importantly than scale ( imo), they also have actually somewhat reasonable proportions. They are not flawless, but ever since their introduction I just can't use normal marines anymore. They look so silly.
In the first voxcast Jes says exactly this. Primaris are the same "scale", they've just been reproportioned. Basically he gave them hips.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 21:56:52
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets
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He also strongly hinted that the Oldmarine range is ”done”, and from now on every new release will be Primaris. Which is quite significant.
I wonder if the same will be true for, say, Eldar? Craftworlds are ”done”, and everything new from now on will be Ynnari. Would let them avoid updating the Aspects indefinitely.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 22:01:52
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Mighty Vampire Count
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Oguhmek wrote:He also strongly hinted that the Oldmarine range is ”done”, and from now on every new release will be Primaris. Which is quite significant.
I wonder if the same will be true for, say, Eldar? Craftworlds are ”done”, and everything new from now on will be Ynnari. Would let them avoid updating the Aspects indefinitely.
To be fair the Marine range is more than done - Eldar and many other factions are still missing alot of untis and models.
I would like to see Serfs/Thralls/Helots.
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I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page
A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 22:13:24
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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As long as GW continues selling Oldmarine kits, I really just don't see the problem.
Personally, I have been phasing them out of my army anyway. I am down to about 500 pts in my 2000 pt list being Oldmarines. Primaris just look better. If they give me a Primaris Pedro Kantor, I will be down to just one squad of Devastators (that aren't going anywhere) and two Whirlwinds.
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5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 22:15:28
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Ship's Officer
London
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I have to agree that, now I’ve seen primaris marines, old marines just look bad in comparison. This kind of hurts, as I’ve got a 30k 7th legion army that I spent serious amounts of time and money on.
I haven’t played 30k since 8th edition and primaris marines appeared. Why would you play a worse game with worse models?
I’ve done some conversions where necessary. I’m quite pleased with my scout squad made from reivers (not least because it gave me something to do with reivers).
My take is that primaris marines are what marines always should have been. They have the right scale and the right stats. GW just messed up by not simply calling them “space marines”, meaning that now you have this bizarre mess with the fluff and rules.
And bizarrely they are now going to release new mini chaos marines, still with the old stats. If they’d just done the obvious thing and given all marines 2 wounds and attacks from the beginning of 8th, they could now bring out great new chaos marines at the proper scale. So far nothing I’ve seen gives me any reason to think we’ll start to see actual chaos space marines in chaos space marine armies.
I’ll almost certainly get the set though. The new librarian looks awesome sand is very likely to find his way into my Crimson Fist army. I’ve already got an urban camp scheme I like, from my scouts. Might do a second squad of scouts in the meantime, with bolt guns, as my original squad has shotguns.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/10 22:35:49
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Sword-Wielding Bloodletter of Khorne
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One prospect that I'm actually enamoured with, is that if at some point Oldmarines and their units cease to exist the Chaos Marines will truly be unique. They would sporting gear that was lost 10'000 years a go and maybe one or the other Oldmarine classic would be retconed into their arsenal.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/11 00:17:48
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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At least Mk3-5 still look good and that's all that matters, right?
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/11 00:36:43
Subject: Shadow Spear - guest appearance by Abaddon!
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
Vigo. Spain.
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Old armours are very cool. I don't think nobody has a problem with those. The problem is the proportions they come paired with.
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Crimson Devil wrote:
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote:Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
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