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 Galas wrote:
Old armours are very cool. I don't think nobody has a problem with those. The problem is the proportions they come paired with.

I don't understand all the fuss about the proportions- they look fine, and I like the style of the non-primaris.

Blastaar wrote:
I don't understand all the fuss about the proportions- they look fine, and I like the style of the non-primaris.

Unless you live in some part of the world where people have forearms as big as their thighs, they really aren't 'fine'.

Primaris look -too- human in proportion, the new proportions seen in Deathwatch, Space Marine Heroes and recent chaos releases look much more like an inhumanly broad Astartes.

You know how they say model makers dictate where it goes and what’s released.
Do you think they sculpted these and just said “Oh this is the next Mk armour, and by the way we did a bit more realistic proportions in line with our other models”
But then it moves to the background team, and they looked at the models and said No they are bigger, so therefore something new. And wrote Primaris fluff around it..

Oh please, the whole 'inhumanely wide' thing is a retroactive attempt at justifying the wonky proportions of the models, not some fundamental element of SM mythos.

Tall? Sure. Well built? Yes. Misshapen Frankenstein's monster knockoffs? No.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Oh please, the whole 'inhumanely wide' thing is a retroactive attempt at justifying the wonky proportions of the models, not some fundamental element of SM mythos..

Yeah, they’ll just squeeze all those extra organs, force-grown musculature and even extra bone into a standard basketball player’s physique then.

 Darkseid wrote:
One prospect that I'm actually enamoured with, is that if at some point Oldmarines and their units cease to exist the Chaos Marines will truly be unique. They would sporting gear that was lost 10'000 years a go and maybe one or the other Oldmarine classic would be retconed into their arsenal.

And when they discontinue Rhino-chassis vehicles they'll lose all their transport options except for Land Raiders. Oh wait, primaris can't use those either.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

Blastaar wrote:
I don't understand all the fuss about the proportions- they look fine, and I like the style of the non-primaris.

Unless you live in some part of the world where people have forearms as big as their thighs, they really aren't 'fine'.

So what if they look "unrealistic?" It's a stylistic choice.

So not a single leak regarding our new Sniper friends?

Blastaar wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

Blastaar wrote:
I don't understand all the fuss about the proportions- they look fine, and I like the style of the non-primaris.

Unless you live in some part of the world where people have forearms as big as their thighs, they really aren't 'fine'.

So what if they look "unrealistic?" It's a stylistic choice.

I understand that a lot of people are attached to the old marines. Personally I don’t have any nostalgic feelings for them since 40k kind of happened during my 25 year break from the hobby. I just see Primaris as better models.

The old marine range is done though. I mean there really isn’t anything to add, so the old marine fans can still buy what they need and, I imagine, GW will keep them in production for as long as people are still buying them.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Problem is they are too big for space marines. Removing old marines would be bad news also for HH players. Primaris models CANNOT be used there. They are head too big for SPACE MARINES.

So what you're saying is that the average guardsman, eldar wych, rogue trader, and Tau is about 7 feet tall...?

And HH players might need to accept the fact that HH isn't going to be around much longer.

So book 9 is on its way out imminently according to FA and book 10 is already being worked on, HH seems to have a huge following where I am and there remains a steady output of models. I don’t think it’s quite dead in the water yet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

Blastaar wrote:
I don't understand all the fuss about the proportions- they look fine, and I like the style of the non-primaris.

Unless you live in some part of the world where people have forearms as big as their thighs, they really aren't 'fine'.

Yep... though ironically I also live in a part of the world where there are no genetically-engineered space-monks who wear power armour and have been fighting a 10,000 year war against Space-Elves, Ancient Killer Robots, Retro-Futuristic Goblins and men with horns/tentacles, so I can probably let the forearm-to-thigh ratio thing slip as I attempt to suspend my disbelief

 Legiocustodes wrote:
So book 9 is on its way out imminently according to FA and book 10 is still already being worked on, HH seems to have a huge following where I am and there remains a steady output of models. I don’t think it’s quite dead in the water yet.

With as many 'Last chance to buy' things that pop up, I have my doubts. It took them a while to get that book out, and I'm not sure HH has the following that GW had hoped.

 Legiocustodes wrote:
Yep... though ironically I also live in a part of the world where there are no genetically-engineered space-monks who wear power armour and have bee fighting a 10,000 year war against Space-Elves, Ancient Killer Robots, Retro-Futuristic Goblins and men with horns/tentacles, so I can probably let the forearm-to-thigh ratio thing slip as I attempt to suspend my disbelief

Considering the fact that Primaris Marines have been a huge hit, and the sheer amount of 'truescale' tutorials and groups are online, I wouldn't say the scale shift was an unpopular decision. This is also not ignoring the fact that the size creep of space marines is a thing.

But yeah, let's just pretend 'fictional setting tropes' is on par with 'poorly-modeled miniature'.

Transformers has robots that change into cars, therefore the figures should be made of cardboard because reasons.

 Crimson wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Problem is they are too big for space marines. Removing old marines would be bad news also for HH players. Primaris models CANNOT be used there. They are head too big for SPACE MARINES.

Could you stop repeating this nonsense? Compared to GWs normal humans, the Primaris are about seven and half feet tall, which is roughly how tall the Space Marines are supposed to be.

Simple: Human 6 feet. Marine 7 feet. Custodians 8 feets(they are to marines what marines are to humans). Primaris models are custodian sized.

Any space marine model that is custodian sized is wrong scale for SPACE MARINES. Primaris are 8 foot. Hell even fluff says they are bigger than regular marines. No surprise seeing they are custodian sized which are head taller to space marines.

Tough luck if you can't accept simple concept. Marines need to be head shorter than custodians to satisfy custodians being to marines what marines are to human. Primaris don't do that. Ergo they aren't marine sized. But that's allright since fluff specifically calls them out as bigger taller marines. They aren't traditional space marines so they don't have to be space marine sized. Just need to be primaris sized.

I think I'm going to have to buy up chaos terminators out of fear their models go the way of those ridiculous obliterators. Often less is more, and just because you can throw more detail onto models doesn't mean you should, especially if they are monopose

just give me the new Abaddon!

tneva82 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Problem is they are too big for space marines. Removing old marines would be bad news also for HH players. Primaris models CANNOT be used there. They are head too big for SPACE MARINES.

Could you stop repeating this nonsense? Compared to GWs normal humans, the Primaris are about seven and half feet tall, which is roughly how tall the Space Marines are supposed to be.

Simple: Human 6 feet. Marine 7 feet. Custodians 8 feets(they are to marines what marines are to humans). Primaris models are custodian sized.

Any space marine model that is custodian sized is wrong scale for SPACE MARINES. Primaris are 8 foot. Hell even fluff says they are bigger than regular marines. No surprise seeing they are custodian sized which are head taller to space marines.

Tough luck if you can't accept simple concept. Marines need to be head shorter than custodians to satisfy custodians being to marines what marines are to human. Primaris don't do that. Ergo they aren't marine sized. But that's allright since fluff specifically calls them out as bigger taller marines. They aren't traditional space marines so they don't have to be space marine sized. Just need to be primaris sized.

There's a wee tiny flaw in your logic there chief. The Custodes models were sized relative to the oldmarine models, which are the wrong size. That means the Custodes are the wrong size relative to a properly-scaled Marine. Also, you got a source on the "Primaris are 8 foot" thing?

If you actually work from a consistent baseline, with the modern GW human height of around 32mm, then Primaris models are around 7.5', which is where most truescale Marine models ended up anyway(because literally nobody apart from Jes and, apparently, you will still sit there after 30 years of varied descriptions and depictions of Marines and insist that, nuh-uh, they're all 7', exactly, on the dot, not a nanometer more). And the fluff is completely irrelevant in this case, since we know for a fact the models were designed first and the fiction was invented later to justify their size relative to people's existing model collections.

This is the News and Rumours thread for Shadowspear, it is not a place to rehash the size debate for the ten thousandth time. Please stick to the topic.

Thanks.
ingtaer.

 Galas wrote:
Old armours are very cool. I don't think nobody has a problem with those. The problem is the proportions they come paired with.

Yeah agreed. I've tried converting a Primaris marine combined with MkIII plastic bits. The head and shoulder pads work fine but the rest is a lot of work. I could see myself potentially doing a kill team like this but definitely not an army. And anyway I think MkX looks good as is.

Only thing I don't like are reivers. I don't think their silly skull faces fit with the rest of the aesthetic and it's nonsense that it's enough to scare anyone on a 40k battlefield. Luckily they are useless so I've never felt the need to paint any up.

Hopefully the new vanguard guys will do the job better. I just hope they aren't all elites. The elite slot is already very stuffed for Primaris armies, while there aren't many fast attack or heavy choices at all.

 Snake Tortoise wrote:
I think I'm going to have to buy up chaos terminators out of fear their models go the way of those ridiculous obliterators. Often less is more, and just because you can throw more detail onto models doesn't mean you should, especially if they are monopose

Unless they are daemonically posessed terminators, i wouldnt worry. Look at the new generic chaos marines, that is a better basis.

I seem to have missed the rumour about the changing background - the picture was edited? Any other source? Curious as some discussion of Eldar followed. Its going to be interesting to see what they do with the established factions which are well filled out but eldar have a lot of resin. That said there are a lot of aspect models out there in collections and on eBay - they'd have to do something really exceptional or brand new to make them a big seller. Atia did mention the possibility of Exodites a while ago [when GSC first reappeared I think]. Ynnari could provide a new twist though - two builds - Craftworld and Ynnari for each aspect.

Mandragola wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Old armours are very cool. I don't think nobody has a problem with those. The problem is the proportions they come paired with.

Yeah agreed. I've tried converting a Primaris marine combined with MkIII plastic bits. The head and shoulder pads work fine but the rest is a lot of work. I could see myself potentially doing a kill team like this but definitely not an army. And anyway I think MkX looks good as is.

You don't happen to have a picture of that, do you? I was thinking of mashing Mk.III and Mk.X together for my Captain.

Mandragola wrote:
Only thing I don't like are reivers. I don't think their silly skull faces fit with the rest of the aesthetic and it's nonsense that it's enough to scare anyone on a 40k battlefield. Luckily they are useless so I've never felt the need to paint any up..

I was put off by that , too, but I guess that's just how GW rolls these days. Bespoke rules that are supposed to have an effect with little regard to internal or external consistency.

Mandragola wrote:
Hopefully the new vanguard guys will do the job better. I just hope they aren't all elites. The elite slot is already very stuffed for Primaris armies, while there aren't many fast attack or heavy choices at all.

GW loves its Elite slot, but I think at this point it might still be OK to draw a comparison to Sigmarines that got their releases by specialization. Primaris seems to broadly follow this approach with a baseline release and now sneaky Marines. So I would definitely expect a new Troops choice in there.

Anything more than that, well, realistically we don't even know what the full box contents will be. Not much to go on just yet.

 silverstu wrote:
I seem to have missed the rumour about the changing background - the picture was edited? Any other source? Curious as some discussion of Eldar followed. Its going to be interesting to see what they do with the established factions which are well filled out but eldar have a lot of resin. That said there are a lot of aspect models out there in collections and on eBay - they'd have to do something really exceptional or brand new to make them a big seller. Atia did mention the possibility of Exodites a while ago [when GSC first reappeared I think]. Ynnari could provide a new twist though - two builds - Craftworld and Ynnari for each aspect.

But then you have people like me who have put off expanding Eldar forces due to the number of resin Aspects.

Also, I think a lot of existing players would happily pick up some plastic sculpts for the additional variety of poses, or to avoid finecast.

Heres where I got to with my test mini.





As you can see I got bored with adding the piping around the edges of the armour. I need to add wrist armour and do something about the thigh plates too, and maybe to the back of the legs. Hopefully it gives you a vague idea what you could end up with though.

I dread the thought of adding Rivets! I do think you’d need to do that though ideally, to get to the industrial style of mkiii dudes.

This isn’t an easy conversion to do. You have to do a lot of cutting to get the chest armour in place and the backpack was kind of a nightmare - which still needs filling. I’m not sure if I’ll do anything on the bolt gun.

I’ve obviously used some spare resin bits here but you could use the plastic mkiiis instead.

I was thinking about Eldar. They have kind of an incoherent model range, designed by various different people over a long time. A potential Ynnari book is an opportunity to do things like aspect warriors in plastic - or to do entirely new units. Shining spears stand out as needing a new model since I think they’re designed to fit the old bike.

Guys, this is for the upcoming releases of Shadow Spear, not conversions, scale, size, girth and whatnot.

Mandragola wrote:
Heres where I got to with my test mini.

Thanks!

 BrookM wrote:
Guys, this is for the upcoming releases of Shadow Spear, not conversions, scale, size, girth and whatnot.

Oops, sorry.

Sorry!

I'm really looking forward to Shadowspear. I am hopeful that it'll fill some gaps in the Primaris army list and the models I've seen so far look great.

The chaos stuff seems a lot less interesting. Only one of the models we've seen is new, though it's kind of cool. The new basic infantry look great, but are going to be hampered somewhat by the dreadful rules they have at the moment.

In the end it comes down to rules for me. The new models are great (apart from the obliterator - not that I like the current one much either) but it's not clear yet if they'll make it into armies.

I like the chaos stuff but I dont fancy having more primaris, il probably pick up the few bits I like off ebay, Im getting pretty fed up of them putting all these new releases into games like this as there is always so much waste, stuff in the box that no one wants or ever uses.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:


And HH players might need to accept the fact that HH isn't going to be around much longer.

Its not ending any time soon, they just announced that there will be ten more books.

I’m definitely with you on the waste issue. The nurgle stuff from the starter set and all of the contents of forgebane apart from the knights are still piles of grey plastic guilt for me. They aren’t the only examples either.

Hopefully the stuff will be sold separately soon. But the box sets are such good value that you’re virtually getting the other faction’s stuff for free. I can easily see myself getting the set if the rules are good, because I’ll need the models in time take to a tournament in March.

I hope hope hope for some kind of anti-tank Primaris Unit.

Mandragola wrote:
I’m definitely with you on the waste issue. The nurgle stuff from the starter set and all of the contents of forgebane apart from the knights are still piles of grey plastic guilt for me. They aren’t the only examples either.

Hopefully the stuff will be sold separately soon. But the box sets are such good value that you’re virtually getting the other faction’s stuff for free. I can easily see myself getting the set if the rules are good, because I’ll need the models in time take to a tournament in March.

Yea I cannot blame people for buying and I know that a lot of people will buy it just because of the price, I am a big GW fan but it makes me sad that they have such a horrible environmental impact with all the unrecyclable waste they have been producing recently.