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Still surprised that there would be a new Possessed kit.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Still surprised that there would be a new Possessed kit.

could be that they're using the new kit as an excuse to revamp the unit?

 fraser1191 wrote:
I'll be honest this box is gonna be a hard sell for me unless either bikes, a small transport, and or SS melee units are included.

I'm really not expecting bikes or Storm Shield toting units(why in the hell would you think they would be in a box that seems to be aimed at a more "Scout/Infiltration" angle?). I could see a small-ish transport or something.

The snipers aren't game changing(so far) and neither is the librarian unless he has new powers.

We don't know anything about the snipers. Saying they "aren't game changing" is way beyond jumping the gun.

Librarian is implied to have powers that synergize with the Vanguard's role--and more to the point, him having a Camo Cloak(which is confirmed I might add) does bring a slightly new and interesting element into things.

I also don't see the new troop choice being significantly better since they would defeat the point of intercessors.

I'd expect it to be more of a sidegrade than an upgrade.

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Still surprised that there would be a new Possessed kit.

could be that they're using the new kit as an excuse to revamp the unit?

Well possesed has been kinda "meh" for a while now and as it looks like they plan to rework chaos space marines in general maybe they decided that possesed deserved some love for a change.

BrianDavion wrote:

could be that they're using the new kit as an excuse to revamp the unit?

I'm wondering if maybe it's not a new Possessed kit but rather some kind of character to add a bit of an 'assassin' to CSM.

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

could be that they're using the new kit as an excuse to revamp the unit?

I'm wondering if maybe it's not a new Possessed kit but rather some kind of character to add a bit of an 'assassin' to CSM.

If we're getting updated CSM, Possessed are second in line for a makeover, right after Terminators. It could be a character, but given the way he's placed on the cover, he probably isn't and we REALLY DO NEED better Possessed.

Sotahullu wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Still surprised that there would be a new Possessed kit.

could be that they're using the new kit as an excuse to revamp the unit?

Well possesed has been kinda "meh" for a while now and as it looks like they plan to rework chaos space marines in general maybe they decided that possesed deserved some love for a change.

Yeah, Possessed have been struggling rules and model wise since I started playing chaos with the 3.0 codex.

It's also worth noting that Possessed have been reflecting GW's rules philosophies through the editions. From the rather random but vanilla ones in the 3.0 to the highly custumisable Possessed in 3.5 and back to a lot of randomness until editon 8.0.

I wonder which route GW will take them this time. Despite being a critic of the 3.5 codex; I enjoyed that iteration even if most additional mutations were overprised. At least the -2 morale modifier of the demonic visage could be fun in this edition, particularly with Nightlords.

You'd think that Havos, who have never had a plastic kit, would be more important than a second plastic Possessed kit.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You'd think that Havos, who have never had a plastic kit, would be more important than a second plastic Possessed kit.

You can make Havoks out of CSM and a weapon sprue. You cannot make Possessed out of CSM and a mutation sprue. GW tried and failed.

But you can make Possessed out of... the Possessed kit!

Shocking, I know. Whereas there are no plastic Chaos heavy weapons outside of the Heavy Bolter.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

could be that they're using the new kit as an excuse to revamp the unit?

I'm wondering if maybe it's not a new Possessed kit but rather some kind of character to add a bit of an 'assassin' to CSM.

If we're getting updated CSM, Possessed are second in line for a makeover, right after Terminators. It could be a character, but given the way he's placed on the cover, he probably isn't and we REALLY DO NEED better Possessed.

I'll agree with there needing to be better Possessed, it just occurred to me that we don't see the Possessed repeated anywhere else on the art and the placement/ focus seems similar to what now has been identified as a Lieutenant for the Primaris side of things:


It might be reading too much into things, but it looks a bit lonely for the Arch Possessor to be the only character.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But you can make Possessed out of... the Possessed kit!

Shocking, I know. Whereas there are no plastic Chaos heavy weapons outside of the Heavy Bolter.

The possessed kit just doesn’t hold up. I’d say they’re equally as important.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

could be that they're using the new kit as an excuse to revamp the unit?

I'm wondering if maybe it's not a new Possessed kit but rather some kind of character to add a bit of an 'assassin' to CSM.

If we're getting updated CSM, Possessed are second in line for a makeover, right after Terminators. It could be a character, but given the way he's placed on the cover, he probably isn't and we REALLY DO NEED better Possessed.

I'll agree with there needing to be better Possessed, it just occurred to me that we don't see the Possessed repeated anywhere else on the art and the placement/ focus seems similar to what now has been identified as a Lieutenant for the Primaris side of things:

Spoiler:

It might be reading too much into things, but it looks a bit lonely for the Arch Possessor to be the only character.

In the video theres a frame with the master of possession flanked by two possessed bodyguards. I think we may just get two possessed, along with the MoP to mirror the three SM characters in the box.

 ImAGeek wrote:
The possessed kit just doesn’t hold up. I’d say they’re equally as important.

Why doesn't it hold up? And replacing an existing plastic kit is equally as important as kit for a unit that's never had a plastic kit?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
The possessed kit just doesn’t hold up. I’d say they’re equally as important.

Why doesn't it hold up? And replacing an existing plastic kit is equally as important as kit for a unit that's never had a plastic kit?

Havocs are just CSM with heavy weapons. CSM have a plastic kit and now will get a new one. Marine heavy weapons exist, you can even order packs of HH era ones if you so desire. The possessed are a really cool concept which the old kit didn't do justice. Getting a new kit for them is interesting, Havocs would be boring.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
I'll be honest this box is gonna be a hard sell for me unless either bikes, a small transport, and or SS melee units are included.

I'm really not expecting bikes or Storm Shield toting units(why in the hell would you think they would be in a box that seems to be aimed at a more "Scout/Infiltration" angle?). I could see a small-ish transport or something.

The snipers aren't game changing(so far) and neither is the librarian unless he has new powers.

We don't know anything about the snipers. Saying they "aren't game changing" is way beyond jumping the gun.

Librarian is implied to have powers that synergize with the Vanguard's role--and more to the point, him having a Camo Cloak(which is confirmed I might add) does bring a slightly new and interesting element into things.

I also don't see the new troop choice being significantly better since they would defeat the point of intercessors.

I'd expect it to be more of a sidegrade than an upgrade.

It's more of a wishlist than an expectation. Plus our vanguard veterans are melee based so there's that as reinforcement.

As far as the snipers, yeah I'm jumping the gun a bit. I know they are probably going to have different ammos, fingers crossed they'll have shield breaker ammo. I like them but for me they need to be able to punch above units with T4

One thing I noticed is that it looks like one of the snipers has a devastator chevron on his knee which may mean they'll be able to give decent fire support against a range of targets

With the librarian it takes more than a camo cloak to get me excited.

And I guess the new troop choice confuses me more than the others cause I feel intercessors have most bases covered and I'm really curious what they are gonna do with them

JSG wrote:
In the video theres a frame with the master of possession flanked by two possessed bodyguards. I think we may just get two possessed, along with the MoP to mirror the three SM characters in the box.

Now that you mention it; I wonder if GW would change the portrial of possessed completely, and make them a small but extremely strong unit, competing with the likes of custodes; just as they do in HH.

 Crimson wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
The possessed kit just doesn’t hold up. I’d say they’re equally as important.

Why doesn't it hold up? And replacing an existing plastic kit is equally as important as kit for a unit that's never had a plastic kit?

Havocs are just CSM with heavy weapons. CSM have a plastic kit and now will get a new one. Marine heavy weapons exist, you can even order packs of HH era ones if you so desire. The possessed are a really cool concept which the old kit didn't do justice. Getting a new kit for them is interesting, Havocs would be boring.

Havocs would be great, and are a staple of the chaos army list. They've never had a plastic incarnation, making them a good kit to do.

Possessed are debatably a cool concept, and have gone through repeated plastic incarnations that somehow never manage to do them justice (and would be really subjective anyway). I wouldn't hold my breath for yet another one, or expect it to suddenly do them justice if GW does do it.

Chaos frankly needs lots of stuff, possessed are so far down the list they can't even see daylight.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You'd think that Havos, who have never had a plastic kit, would be more important than a second plastic Possessed kit.

While I have long admitted to myself that speculating on why GW does what it does, either in any particular case or multiple cases taken together to discern a pattern, is a roadmap to crazytown I could offer a theory that in this case that the designers went to the accountants and said "we have new designs for Havocs, Possessed, Obliterators and everything else we want to do" and the accountants said "we only have the money to do everything else you want to do and two other kits and since Havocs and Obliterators are both heavy weapons units you don't want to do both of them so pick one to do with Possessed." But again, roadmap, crazytown.

Still got 2 unassembled possessed kits I never got around to building cos they have sucked for 3 editions!

The thing I wonder is if these new CSM will be compatible with stuff like the Noise Marine upgrades. If not, that will really suck. EC are my favorite Traitor Legion. Having newer and better plastics to go with them would be cool.

Also, Havocs could easily be done with a new weapon sprue. Which is exactly why GW probably won't make one. It would make converting way too simple. Look at Primaris Hellblasters and Intercessors. Those could have been accomplished with one base body kit and then a separate weapon kit. It would likely be cheaper to manufacture, but with separate kits, GW can transfer the cost to the customer and then pocket all additional profits.

I almost wonder if the Possessed in the picture is actually a Possessed Character. If the Primaris have two Characters, perhaps CSM will as well.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
The possessed kit just doesn’t hold up. I’d say they’re equally as important.

Why doesn't it hold up? And replacing an existing plastic kit is equally as important as kit for a unit that's never had a plastic kit?

Because the models look awful. And yes, in my opinion, replacing a bad plastic kit is as important as a kit for a non plastic unit.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t get havocs, I’m saying we should have both. Personally, I’m much more excited by the prospect of a new possessed kit than I am havocs.

I'd wager that if we get a new multi part chaos marine box then legion upgrade will come out similar to the chapter ones, or possibly a new box built off them, so emperor's chumps will get something, actually I take that back, it's probably more likely noise marines will just get a new sculpt with another new unit, a dual kit basically.

 Crimson wrote:
Havocs are just CSM with heavy weapons.

And?

Devastators are just Marines with heavy weapons, and they've had two different plastic kits and before that 3 different metal kits. Four if you count the original Long Fang kit.

 Crimson wrote:
CSM have a plastic kit and now will get a new one.

Again, and? None of this has any relation to a plastic Havoc kit.

 Crimson wrote:
Marine heavy weapons exist...

Sure. Let me just gather together all my plastic Devastator Autocannons I have spare...

 Crimson wrote:
...you can even order packs of HH era ones if you so desire.

Yeah, 'cause that's what GW wants. A new (slightly different scale) Chaos Marine kit either using mini-Marine Dev weapons or FW HH weapons... as Havocs.

 Crimson wrote:
The possessed are a really cool concept which the old kit didn't do justice.

Again, people keep saying things like "doesn't hold up" or "didn't do justice" without actually explaining what that means.

Havocs = No plastic kit.
Possessed = Have a plastic kit.

Why is the latter in more need of a plastic kit than the one that doesn't have one???

 Kinetochore wrote:
Still got 2 unassembled possessed kits I never got around to building cos they have sucked for 3 editions!

But that's the rules, not the miniatures.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The thing I wonder is if these new CSM will be compatible with stuff like the Noise Marine upgrades. If not, that will really suck.

I doubt that's going to be much a problem after Slaanesh gets their turn in the sun.

GW made possessed in the new design space of 40k. Possessed , daemon engines and obliterators probably fit the new design space. A long with recent helbrutes, maulerfiends, heldrakes and forgefiends. Havocs are spikey marine devastators, they are probably not where they want to take CSM. They don't even care about non-spikey space marine havocs, they made a new space marine that does non-spikey marine havoc stuff.

CSM supported by daemon fused space marine and vehicles is where CSM seem to be going.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
The possessed kit just doesn’t hold up. I’d say they’re equally as important.

Why doesn't it hold up? And replacing an existing plastic kit is equally as important as kit for a unit that's never had a plastic kit?

This is why they don't hold up.

While I agree that Possessed don't hold up and need a redesgin; Havocs must be one of the oldest infantry kits in GWs lineup; right next to the Berzerkers.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
GW made possessed in the new design space of 40k. Possessed , daemon engines and obliterators probably fit the new design space.

I'd love to see an new Defiler in the quality and stile of the new Chaos Tick.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The thing I wonder is if these new CSM will be compatible with stuff like the Noise Marine upgrades. If not, that will really suck. EC are my favorite Traitor Legion. Having newer and better plastics to go with them would be cool.

I wouldn't expect that...I would expect an Emperor's Children kit down the line.

Also, Havocs could easily be done with a new weapon sprue. Which is exactly why GW probably won't make one. It would make converting way too simple. Look at Primaris Hellblasters and Intercessors. Those could have been accomplished with one base body kit and then a separate weapon kit. It would likely be cheaper to manufacture, but with separate kits, GW can transfer the cost to the customer and then pocket all additional profits.

Or alternatively, they did them as two separate kits because we're not talking about a single weapon in a squad but rather a whole squad outfitted with the weapon.

I almost wonder if the Possessed in the picture is actually a Possessed Character. If the Primaris have two Characters, perhaps CSM will as well.

There's 3 Primaris characters.

The foremost model(carbine, grav-chute pack, bared head with respirator) has a LT insignia.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Havocs = No plastic kit.
Possessed = Have a plastic kit.

What does it matter if something has plastic kit, if it is ugly? What use I have for ugly models?
Havocs are boring, but with the new CSM cool looking ones will be easy to convert, whereas the Possessed are interesting but the current models look bad, thus they need new ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
GW made possessed in the new design space of 40k. Possessed , daemon engines and obliterators probably fit the new design space. A long with recent helbrutes, maulerfiends, heldrakes and forgefiends. Havocs are spikey marine devastators, they are probably not where they want to take CSM. They don't even care about non-spikey space marine havocs, they made a new space marine that does non-spikey marine havoc stuff.

CSM supported by daemon fused space marine and vehicles is where CSM seem to be going.

Which is a good directions, as it differentiates them from they loyalists.

Darkseid wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
GW made possessed in the new design space of 40k. Possessed , daemon engines and obliterators probably fit the new design space.

I'd love to see an new Defiler in the quality and stile of the new Chaos Tick.

I would buy at least 2 defilers if they re did them in the new style. Because you want to talk about a model that didn't age well? The defiler is probably in my top 3.

Crimson wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
GW made possessed in the new design space of 40k. Possessed , daemon engines and obliterators probably fit the new design space. A long with recent helbrutes, maulerfiends, heldrakes and forgefiends. Havocs are spikey marine devastators, they are probably not where they want to take CSM. They don't even care about non-spikey space marine havocs, they made a new space marine that does non-spikey marine havoc stuff.

CSM supported by daemon fused space marine and vehicles is where CSM seem to be going.

Which is a good directions, as it differentiates them from they loyalists.

I didn't like CSM until the DG redesign. If they make CSM something more than blander loyalists then I will be buying a new army lol.