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 Crimson wrote:
What does it matter if something has plastic kit, if it is ugly? ...
Havocs are boring

That's all subjective.

What's not subjective is that one unit already has a kit, and the other does not.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
What does it matter if something has plastic kit, if it is ugly? ...
Havocs are boring

That's all subjective.

What's not subjective is that one unit already has a kit, and the other does not.

Havocs have a resin kit. That plastic is preferable over resin is subjective.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The thing I wonder is if these new CSM will be compatible with stuff like the Noise Marine upgrades. If not, that will really suck. EC are my favorite Traitor Legion. Having newer and better plastics to go with them would be cool.

I wouldn't expect that...I would expect an Emperor's Children kit down the line.

Also, Havocs could easily be done with a new weapon sprue. Which is exactly why GW probably won't make one. It would make converting way too simple. Look at Primaris Hellblasters and Intercessors. Those could have been accomplished with one base body kit and then a separate weapon kit. It would likely be cheaper to manufacture, but with separate kits, GW can transfer the cost to the customer and then pocket all additional profits.

Or alternatively, they did them as two separate kits because we're not talking about a single weapon in a squad but rather a whole squad outfitted with the weapon.

I almost wonder if the Possessed in the picture is actually a Possessed Character. If the Primaris have two Characters, perhaps CSM will as well.

There's 3 Primaris characters.

The foremost model(carbine, grav-chute pack, bared head with respirator) has a LT insignia.

I agree that we will likely get a Noise Marine kit. I am more talking in the meantime. I do think you are right that the old upgrades won't be compatible, which is a bit of a shame.

I think the fact that it was a whole squad outfitted with a single weapon type would be more of a reason for there to just be a Sprue with the weapons on it and the bodies on separate Sprues.

I am not convinced that what we are seeing with that artwork is the actual boxed set cover for Shadowspear. I think it might be the cover of Vigilus Volume II. I really doubt they are going to put what appears to be Sergeant Telion in a boxed set. Unless it isn't Telion and it is just a bog-standard Captain type dude. Who knows. A beard on a Space Marine does not necessarily a Sergeant Telion make. Especially since his weapon doesn't look like Quietus, and as Rubicon Calgar shows us, while a Primaris can't use a frickin' SM transport anymore, they definitely get to keep their relics.

 Crimson wrote:
Havocs have a resin kit. That plastic is preferable over resin is subjective.

Cool, and we're been talking about plastic kits the entire time, so why bring up a resin kit?

Really? In all the talk of kits in need of a re-do, no one's talking about these guys?!

You mean Happy Dance Chaos Space Marines? I imagine that kit will be dealt with just like Noise Marines. Eventually.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Havocs have a resin kit. That plastic is preferable over resin is subjective.

Cool, and we're been talking about plastic kits the entire time, so why bring up a resin kit?

I don't know, I don't understand what's your point is except just to whine about everything. Why is the old kit being resin a valid reason for an update, but the old kit being ugly not?

 Crimson wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Havocs have a resin kit. That plastic is preferable over resin is subjective.

Cool, and we're been talking about plastic kits the entire time, so why bring up a resin kit?

I don't know, I don't understand what's your point is except just to whine about everything. Why is the old kit being resin a valid reason for an update, but the old kit being ugly not?

Resin is infinitely more difficult to deal with though. It isn't usable out of the box like plastic. A plastic model needs the mold lines cleaned and then assembly is straightforward. Resin involves removing the billion little triangles of excess resin all over the model, unwarping all of the parts, and then praying it holds together once assembled. And yes, experienced modelers have less of an issue with it. But plastics open up the kits to more people, which leads to better sales, which likely results in better support (GW going to where the money is at).

I don't have a horse in this race whatsoever, but I definitely would like to see new Havocs over Possessed. The more resin kits replaced with plastic the better.

The real question is why is everyone arguing as if CSMs are only going to get one kit updated?

The whole line needs to be updated, and frankly, if they can create a whole new range for every other faction release, they should be doing it for CSMs now.

Why does Chaos have access to codex compliant devastators any ways?

Like does the champion not allow all of his boys to use heavy weapons? Or does he follow the rules laid down by his spiritual liege?

 BrotherGecko wrote:
Why does Chaos have access to codex compliant devastators any ways?

Like does the champion not allow all of his boys to use heavy weapons? Or does he follow the rules laid down by his spiritual liege?

Heresy era rules didn't exist yet. That kit is so old and GW didn't have all the fluff distinctions we do now.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Really? In all the talk of kits in need of a re-do, no one's talking about these guys?!

Yes, but then again, I alredy see two new Khorne Berserkers in this new CSM kit. If there is enough pistols and melee weapons to equip the whole squad, that's basically it. Of course it would be nice if they released Legion upgrade sprues, so World Eaters could get some bunny hats and extra axes etc. But like with the Havocs, the new base CSM kit gets you like 80% or 90% there. Havocs wouldn't need a full kit either, just a heavy weapon sprue.We don't even know that such isn't included in the new set, so complaints are a bit premature. And even if it isn't, it's not like marine scale heavy weapons are difficult to come by.

It's going to be a while before we know how many upgrades are in the kit. GW isn't necessarily very generous with weapon upgrades in some of the latest kits.

The GSC Atalan Jackals, for example, only have one cultist knife bit, only two demo charge bits, and only one of each other melee weapon that does anything. I'd honestly be surprised if the new Chaos Marine kit came with enough bolt pistols and chainswords to equip the whole squad. And I bet it'll only have one of any special weapon and one chain axe that will be stuck in that one pose.

For me possessed are like the old Forsaken Fantasy Kit.

If you combine everything in the box to build a unit they are horrible but if you use them as a mega Upgrade-Sprue to sprinkle all your Chaos marines they are fantastic.

I bought 2 boxes of possesed for that. The winged backpack count as Jumpack is a classic, and using a sword-arm as a power sword for a sargeant, etc... is also very cool.

 Crimson wrote:

Yes, but then again, I alredy see two new Khorne Berserkers in this new CSM kit. If there is enough pistols and melee weapons to equip the whole squad, that's basically it. Of course it would be nice if they released Legion upgrade sprues, so World Eaters could get some bunny hats and extra axes etc. But like with the Havocs, the new base CSM kit gets you like 80% or 90% there. Havocs wouldn't need a full kit either, just a heavy weapon sprue.We don't even know that such isn't included in the new set, so complaints are a bit premature. And even if it isn't, it's not like marine scale heavy weapons are difficult to come by.

I see that less as Khorne Berserkers and more Chaos Space Marines finally being able to have chain axes to switch out their boltgun for a more melee focused marine. I always felt that chain axes should be option in addition to chain swords for regular Chaos Space Marines. I hoping (Tzeentch granted) that this is true given the picture. However, you are correct with a head swap these could easily be Berserkers with new armor. Although, if I am going to kitbash Khorne Berserker stuff I would rather use Age of Sigmar as base and 40k them up instead.

Personally, I would much rather have Havocs over any kind of Possessed. I can even agree with you that Havocs are kind boring in comparison. Fundamental units tend to be boring but useful. My army could make much greater use of Havocs than Possessed. I would prefer to not have to kitbash or use resin/Finecast to get what I consider a fundamental unit. I would much rather the new Chaos Space Marine kit include even just a single missile launcher and lascannon than have to located a Horus Heresy heavy weapon's sprue. Especially since GW could Chaos up these weapons a bit then Not to mention if they become the new Chaos Space Marine kit, I am likely going to get enough to build a Havoc sqaud anyways.

I never wanted Possessed because for three reasons: 1) they don't fit my army idea, 2) they don't have attractive models and 3) they aren't very good. Points 1 and 2 being the most important and the same reason I don't have the Chaos unit that Must Not Be Named. I am fine with an updated Possessed kit, but I do prefer GW clearing out all the resin/Finecraft kits with a kit not requiring me to scrounge or hunt to build a unit. I really think GW should be working toward clearing out the old resin kits for all factions. Sure GW has some of better kits in miniatures gaming, but as long as those resin/Finecast one are on the market, they also have some of the worst too.

I would love a Ghal Vorkha plastic version of new possessed in 40mm bases to act as truly fearsome units.

 Starfarer wrote:
The real question is why is everyone arguing as if CSMs are only going to get one kit updated?

The whole line needs to be updated, and frankly, if they can create a whole new range for every other faction release, they should be doing it for CSMs now.

Wait. Whole new range for who? Every other faction? Wasn't genestealers. Wasn't Orks. Primaris aren't a functional army on their own. Most factions got nothing at all. Death guard come closest, I guess, but that was a fair bit back, and they still have to use old tanks and daemons.

 Galas wrote:
For me possessed are like the old Forsaken Fantasy Kit.

If you combine everything in the box to build a unit they are horrible but if you use them as a mega Upgrade-Sprue to sprinkle all your Chaos marines they are fantastic.

I bought 2 boxes of possesed for that. The winged backpack count as Jumpack is a classic, and using a sword-arm as a power sword for a sargeant, etc... is also very cool.

I mean, I've bought Grey Knight and Deathwatch boxes before just to use for bitz, and have done the same even for FW.

That said, the original kit should look at least okay by itself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:
I would love a Ghal Vorkha plastic version of new possessed in 40mm bases to act as truly fearsome units.

Honestly the current Possessed don't lack a lot of the tools the Gal Vorbak have. I know someone tried arguing with me earlier on that at least.

Is there a rough estimate as to when Shadowspear will be released?

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Really? In all the talk of kits in need of a re-do, no one's talking about these guys?!

Spoiler:

Again people are assuming CSM upgrade kits on what *may* be a monopose kit in the Shadow Spear set. The bolter marine is very similar to the ones in Blackstone fortress. Temper those expectations people.

BlueGrassGamer wrote:
Is there a rough estimate as to when Shadowspear will be released?

there's a timer on the little preview of abaddon that indicates 26 days so I'm gonna guess Abaddon will be up for pre-order first weekend of march, so... I'd guess ahdowspear will be the week before. with a pre-order date of hmm possiably as early as this weekend if we're really lucky?

“But there’s a twist – every single model in the box is a brand-new sculpt.”

Not a new kit, single model monopose sculpts.

My personal wish would be: Plastic Havocs (with 4 of each....)
Plastic possesed.
Plastic CSM and ofcourse could we please take a look at the Berzerkers?

 ImAGeek wrote:

Nah, of course they don’t need new models, they’re already a plastic kit!

Haha, we came full circle

But seriously, isn't the Berzerker kit the oldest that GW has on the shelves? It even predates the current CSM; that even got a repack and upgrade sprue in the meantime.

Invul wrote:

“But there’s a twist – every single model in the box is a brand-new sculpt.”

Not a new kit, single model monopose sculpts.

Shadowspear is a new battlebox. Like Forgebane, Tooth and Claw and Wake the Dead

 Darkseid wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

Nah, of course they don’t need new models, they’re already a plastic kit!

Haha, we came full circle

But seriously, isn't the Berzerker kit the oldest that GW has on the shelves? It even predates the current CSM; that even got a repack and upgrade sprue in the meantime.

You would imagine they will come when they do Angron.

All the Black Legion things (ie generic Chaos) make sense to come with Abaddon

 Darkseid wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

Nah, of course they don’t need new models, they’re already a plastic kit!

Haha, we came full circle

But seriously, isn't the Berzerker kit the oldest that GW has on the shelves? It even predates the current CSM; that even got a repack and upgrade sprue in the meantime.

1997 I believe? Certainly one of the oldest plastic kits remaining, and may be the oldest with the recent demise of the old Ork buggy kit. I think it is a couple of years older than the Catachans kit (1999?). Other contenders would be the Eldar Guardians and maybe some of the oldest plastic vehicles. I'd have to dig around for release dates though!

Eldar vypers would surely be the oldest?

How old is the current Abaddon model? Fabius Bile is certainly getting up there. The ork Deffkopta model with twin big shootas has to be pretty darn old at this point.

Not sure if any of these are near being the oldest but they darn sure need updated kits! Although the biggest eyesore IMO, Abaddon (because of his place in the plot) is at last getting his day in the sun.