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Is that spear the Black Legions guys spear? It looks Eldar to me with the glowing runes...

Yeah, its Harkaan's spear. It's an older pic

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I bet it turns out to be a planet cracker with an 80 day fuse,

vigilus goes bang, the status quo is maintained

Get with the times bruh, GW are all about the advancing plot these days - there will be all kinds of consequences from Vigilus...which will be perfectly balanced out by various out-of-nowhere extremely convenient events happening elsewhere off-screen making sure the status quo is maintained. It's totally different to the boring old static setting they had before

 Yodhrin wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I bet it turns out to be a planet cracker with an 80 day fuse,

vigilus goes bang, the status quo is maintained

Get with the times bruh, GW are all about the advancing plot these days - there will be all kinds of consequences from Vigilus...which will be perfectly balanced out by various out-of-nowhere extremely convenient events happening elsewhere off-screen making sure the status quo is maintained. It's totally different to the boring old static setting they had before

Imperium cut in half and still folks think the story hasn't changed. Tsk tsk

Lemondish wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I bet it turns out to be a planet cracker with an 80 day fuse,

vigilus goes bang, the status quo is maintained

Get with the times bruh, GW are all about the advancing plot these days - there will be all kinds of consequences from Vigilus...which will be perfectly balanced out by various out-of-nowhere extremely convenient events happening elsewhere off-screen making sure the status quo is maintained. It's totally different to the boring old static setting they had before

Imperium cut in half and still folks think the story hasn't changed. Tsk tsk

yeah, apparently terra hasn't fallen yet and we haven't had half the factions in the game destroyed so "nothing changes"

Some people enjoy complaining as an essential and core part of their hobby. Mostly about GW, here in the miniatures realm, but you'll find the same about any kind of "fandom". Just look at some of the Star Wars "fans".

I'm pretty excited for the Shadow Spear box. Just need to know if it goes up for pre-order next week or the following week at this point.

I'm hoping pre orders go up next week, since the countdown ends roughly around then. Though, as some people have pointed out, Shadowspear isn't set on Vigilus. Funny that Harkaan doesn't come in the set with Spear in the title.

Sotahullu wrote:
Apostole or I eat my Patriach.

I feel like we're getting the whole damn book (sans god specific units).

GaroRobe wrote:
I'm hoping pre orders go up next week, since the countdown ends roughly around then. Though, as some people have pointed out, Shadowspear isn't set on Vigilus. Funny that Harkaan doesn't come in the set with Spear in the title.

Yeah, the countdown ending on a Tuesday is odd. I guess it could mean most of a week of full-on previews, rather than everything just appearing on the Saturday (or shown by WHQ a week before that)?

 Azazelx wrote:

GaroRobe wrote:
I'm hoping pre orders go up next week, since the countdown ends roughly around then. Though, as some people have pointed out, Shadowspear isn't set on Vigilus. Funny that Harkaan doesn't come in the set with Spear in the title.

Yeah, the countdown ending on a Tuesday is odd. I guess it could mean most of a week of full-on previews, rather than everything just appearing on the Saturday (or shown by WHQ a week before that)?

that's my guess, the countdown is to an announcement. it's typical marketing "we're announcing we'll be making an announcement"

 Azazelx wrote:

GaroRobe wrote:
I'm hoping pre orders go up next week, since the countdown ends roughly around then. Though, as some people have pointed out, Shadowspear isn't set on Vigilus. Funny that Harkaan doesn't come in the set with Spear in the title.

Yeah, the countdown ending on a Tuesday is odd. I guess it could mean most of a week of full-on previews, rather than everything just appearing on the Saturday (or shown by WHQ a week before that)?

80 days probably sounded way cooler than 85 lol

 fraser1191 wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

GaroRobe wrote:
I'm hoping pre orders go up next week, since the countdown ends roughly around then. Though, as some people have pointed out, Shadowspear isn't set on Vigilus. Funny that Harkaan doesn't come in the set with Spear in the title.

Yeah, the countdown ending on a Tuesday is odd. I guess it could mean most of a week of full-on previews, rather than everything just appearing on the Saturday (or shown by WHQ a week before that)?

80 days probably sounded way cooler than 85 lol

80 feels pretty random too, to be honest. 50 or 100 feel more natural. Unless he used some warp shenanigans, and a daemon told him exactly how long it would take for either him to win or for Abaddon to show up.

GaroRobe wrote:
80 feels pretty random too, to be honest.

Regarding the Tuesday countdown, I see two possibilities. Tuesday has been the day when they unveil their big box sets. 8th edition and soul wars were both fully unveiled on a Tuesday. It could be that GW is putting this release in that category. Unfortunately that would probably mean that the box set is coming later than we think as those major releases have always had a two week preorder.
The other possibility is that GW is going to announce the next global campaign.
A global campaign to decide the fate of Vigilus feels like it would be a logical way for GW to go.

Chikout wrote:
Regarding the Tuesday countdown, I see two possibilities. Tuesday has been the day when they unveil their big box sets. 8th edition and soul wars were both fully unveiled on a Tuesday. It could be that GW is putting this release in that category. Unfortunately that would probably mean that the box set is coming later than we think as those major releases have always had a two week preorder.
The other possibility is that GW is going to announce the next global campaign.
A global campaign to decide the fate of Vigilus feels like it would be a logical way for GW to go.

my local GW manager told me "next weekedn will NOT be the shadowspear pre-order, but it will be something really cool" grain of salt and all that but..

I'm fine with a two week preorder time, as long as we actually get to see the contents of this box. The Daemon Rumor Engine has started to become a trifle tedious

Lemondish wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I bet it turns out to be a planet cracker with an 80 day fuse,

vigilus goes bang, the status quo is maintained

Get with the times bruh, GW are all about the advancing plot these days - there will be all kinds of consequences from Vigilus...which will be perfectly balanced out by various out-of-nowhere extremely convenient events happening elsewhere off-screen making sure the status quo is maintained. It's totally different to the boring old static setting they had before

Imperium cut in half and still folks think the story hasn't changed. Tsk tsk

Cut in half except when the plot requires otherwise to ensure every single chapter everywhere got Primaris. Cut in half except for most Imperial worlds what's the difference, they don't see interstellar starships for centuries or millennia anyway.

Which is the point - the plot advances, oh noes, the galaxy is ripped asunder! Surely the Imperium is boned now right? But it's OK, Cawl has invented Primaris and Guilliman is back and all the Marines everywhere are now better and fightier, and the Custodes have finally wiped off their mascara and turned off the My Chemical Romance mixtape to get out and about fighting stuff again, so the balance of power doesn't really shift, they just make big melodramatic claims about things happening off-screen.

They rearrange the pieces, but the status quo is never materially different because the "plot" can never, ever end; there will always be an Imperium of sufficient power to oppose their collective enemies at a level just sufficient to prevent them being overrun and destroyed. But all that's just moaning, apparently, because Malibu Stacy has a new hat...

 Yodhrin wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I bet it turns out to be a planet cracker with an 80 day fuse,

vigilus goes bang, the status quo is maintained

Get with the times bruh, GW are all about the advancing plot these days - there will be all kinds of consequences from Vigilus...which will be perfectly balanced out by various out-of-nowhere extremely convenient events happening elsewhere off-screen making sure the status quo is maintained. It's totally different to the boring old static setting they had before

Imperium cut in half and still folks think the story hasn't changed. Tsk tsk

Cut in half except when the plot requires otherwise to ensure every single chapter everywhere got Primaris. Cut in half except for most Imperial worlds what's the difference, they don't see interstellar starships for centuries or millennia anyway.

Which is the point - the plot advances, oh noes, the galaxy is ripped asunder! Surely the Imperium is boned now right? But it's OK, Cawl has invented Primaris and Guilliman is back and all the Marines everywhere are now better and fightier, and the Custodes have finally wiped off their mascara and turned off the My Chemical Romance mixtape to get out and about fighting stuff again, so the balance of power doesn't really shift, they just make big melodramatic claims about things happening off-screen.

They rearrange the pieces, but the status quo is never materially different because the "plot" can never, ever end; there will always be an Imperium of sufficient power to oppose their collective enemies at a level just sufficient to prevent them being overrun and destroyed. But all that's just moaning, apparently, because Malibu Stacy has a new hat...

so in other words you WON'T be happy unless GW removes entire factions from the game?

 Yodhrin wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I bet it turns out to be a planet cracker with an 80 day fuse,

vigilus goes bang, the status quo is maintained

Get with the times bruh, GW are all about the advancing plot these days - there will be all kinds of consequences from Vigilus...which will be perfectly balanced out by various out-of-nowhere extremely convenient events happening elsewhere off-screen making sure the status quo is maintained. It's totally different to the boring old static setting they had before

Imperium cut in half and still folks think the story hasn't changed. Tsk tsk

Cut in half except when the plot requires otherwise to ensure every single chapter everywhere got Primaris. Cut in half except for most Imperial worlds what's the difference, they don't see interstellar starships for centuries or millennia anyway.

Which is the point - the plot advances, oh noes, the galaxy is ripped asunder! Surely the Imperium is boned now right? But it's OK, Cawl has invented Primaris and Guilliman is back and all the Marines everywhere are now better and fightier, and the Custodes have finally wiped off their mascara and turned off the My Chemical Romance mixtape to get out and about fighting stuff again, so the balance of power doesn't really shift, they just make big melodramatic claims about things happening off-screen.

They rearrange the pieces, but the status quo is never materially different because the "plot" can never, ever end; there will always be an Imperium of sufficient power to oppose their collective enemies at a level just sufficient to prevent them being overrun and destroyed. But all that's just moaning, apparently, because Malibu Stacy has a new hat...

Exactly

That's why moving the plot line was/is a bad idea, cause unless they go full AOS (and they won't), all of these ''changes'' are futile.

 Yodhrin wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I bet it turns out to be a planet cracker with an 80 day fuse,

vigilus goes bang, the status quo is maintained

Get with the times bruh, GW are all about the advancing plot these days - there will be all kinds of consequences from Vigilus...which will be perfectly balanced out by various out-of-nowhere extremely convenient events happening elsewhere off-screen making sure the status quo is maintained. It's totally different to the boring old static setting they had before

Imperium cut in half and still folks think the story hasn't changed. Tsk tsk

Cut in half except when the plot requires otherwise to ensure every single chapter everywhere got Primaris. Cut in half except for most Imperial worlds what's the difference, they don't see interstellar starships for centuries or millennia anyway.

Which is the point - the plot advances, oh noes, the galaxy is ripped asunder! Surely the Imperium is boned now right? But it's OK, Cawl has invented Primaris and Guilliman is back and all the Marines everywhere are now better and fightier, and the Custodes have finally wiped off their mascara and turned off the My Chemical Romance mixtape to get out and about fighting stuff again, so the balance of power doesn't really shift, they just make big melodramatic claims about things happening off-screen.

They rearrange the pieces, but the status quo is never materially different because the "plot" can never, ever end; there will always be an Imperium of sufficient power to oppose their collective enemies at a level just sufficient to prevent them being overrun and destroyed. But all that's just moaning, apparently, because Malibu Stacy has a new hat...

People put way too much stock into this games story line, treating it as if its akin to high literary art. It's just C+ level scifi, with a couple of good stories written in here or there.

Nothing about what you just said contradicts, counters or in any way answers what Yod said.

I'm really hoping we get a proper reveal today, as soon as I saw this release I squirrelled away some money by selling my tau start collecting set and codex and now have 60 quid sat to pay the bulk of it off!

I get my work bonus at the beginning of next month so yay. I hope we get a new Warpsmith too. Maybe they'll also redo Haarkan's rules or make raptors better in close combat.

BrianDavion wrote:

so in other words you WON'T be happy unless GW removes entire factions from the game?

Nothing gets removed from the game, ever, once it's in. It gets removed from further advancement in the story.

What Yod is saying is "the more it changes, the more it stays the same", or that's how i read it. If GW removed a fraction from advancing, they would have another to replace them lined up, they need to keep the imbalance balanced.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Nothing about what you just said contradicts, counters or in any way answers what Yod said.

It advances the story. Or more accurately the setting. It gives them new space to tell stories.

What Yod has said is akin to saying the Horus Heresy was pointless.

You can still field space marines in virtually any way you want? The imperium is decaying without the Emperor now? But, oh yes, they magically keep repelling all these attacks!

Of course they will continue to use plot devices to do what they want, of course things will only happen that continue to allow things to remain in the game and provide space for new products.

But it allows them to refresh the setting and tell stories that aren't just rehashes. It allows them to develop Primaris or Ynnari or whatever they want. It lets them have Chaos pop up anywhere and you not think what's the point in the Cadian gate if Abaddon can pop up in New Planet 352.

It'll be interesting to see how the Vigilus campaign will end, if Chaos wins their current stranglehold on the two halves of the Imperium grows tighter as it means one less safe passageway through the rift.

Though it remains to be seen how the Orks and Genestealer Cultists will fit into the whole thing.

Both are expendable in plot terms as losing one Waaagh or Cult means nothing, galactically speaking.

Advancing the story doesn't have to mean that stuff gets removed from the game. They could advance the story to a point where Tactical Squads are no longer used by Space Marine Chapters, and still have Space Marine Tactical Squads sitting on shelves. They've been doing just that for 30 years now with special characters - At least half of the special characters GW have included in the game over the years have already been dead in the 'current' time, according to their fluff. In some cases (Macharius!) by quite a long margin.

The thing is, the setting isn't just the 'current' time. It's that, and everything that has preceded it, and potentially things that haven't actually happened yet. So there is absolutely nothing stopping them from advancing the plot in ways that actually result in meaningful changes to the Imperium, in order to add new content, without having to chop anything that's already in there... fluff-wise, anyway.

Practically speaking, the range is only ever going to be a finite size, because there is only so much space in their stores. So adding in new stuff winds up pushing old stuff out.

I really think vigilus falls plunging the Imperium into more turmoil which leads to another primarch returning and leading another indomitus style crusade with a 3rd Primaris wave and also some of the maledictum being closed up with pylon technology as hinted at in dark Imperium.

Do we need another setting vs story debate? And in N&R no less?