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I'd expect the autocannon guys to be Heavy Support and Eliminators as Elites, while the others would be Troops.

If the terminator model was only the guy in the picture wielding the two-handed censer mace weapon, then why the picture of the power fist?

Perhaps a new character/lord/whatever kit with the option for multiple loadouts? Can only speculate, but it doesn't seem particularly ornate for a one-off character's armament.

Oh boy another vague picture...

I’ve seen that picture of a “Gatling” weapon everyone is talking about. It’s obviously just a bolt rifle, isn’t it? There’s a big blast coming out of it but the gun seems to be identical to the ones the other guys gave.

Otherwise yes I agree it would be a surprise to see a heavy weapon in a troop choice. We’ve seen an image with two auto cannon guys and no other squad members around, which suggests that you get units of them on their own.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'd expect the autocannon guys to be Heavy Support and Eliminators as Elites, while the others would be Troops.

That is what I'd expect too. Although at first, I did think the Snipers would be Troops, until I realize how redundant it would make Scouts

I kinda hope the none of the new units are Elites though. Eliminators mgith fit well in either Fast/Heavy depending on their method of deployment/weapon loadout. Same goes for the heavy weapon "jump devs" Could be Fast or Heavy. Primaris already has 3 Elite options, but only 1 Fast/Heavy currently

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I count five elite choices (including the ancient and apothecary), one fast and one heavy.

It's interesting (to me, maybe nobody else!) that we keep getting Primaris infantry and apparently no vehicles. It seems to me that the line could really use some thing like a Predator-equivalent and maybe a land speeder. A flyer would also be good.

Primaris chapters can't only use repulsors for all their vehicular needs. How do they get down to the planet?

Mandragola wrote:
How do they get down to the planet?

Super easy, barely an inconvenience, if the lore is anything to go by,
They just jump out of the ship in orbit and fall miles to the ground and make a super-hero landing.

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 Galef wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
How do they get down to the planet?

If the lore is anything to go by, they just jump out of the ship in orbit and fall miles to the ground and make a super-hero landing.

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That and Overlords.

Thing with elites slots and marines is they already have 24 of them

only 6 fast and 12 heavy

guess it is the 'heart' of a marine army to have that many elites and shouldn't complain elites get a good deal in the battalion/brigade

The standard Vanguard Primaris have battleline markings just as Intercessors. Exterminators and the autocannon dudes have markings for fire support.
AFAIK there are no Marines with battleline symbol that are not troops.

 Crimson_ wrote:
The standard Vanguard Primaris have battleline markings just as Intercessors. Exterminators and the autocannon dudes have markings for fire support.
AFAIK there are no Marines with battleline symbol that are not troops.

Cool. However, Reivers have the fast attack symbol and Aggressors have the heavy support one. Both are elites.

Not saying that the vanguard guys aren't troops (and I hope that they are) only that whatever's painted on them doesn't give us much to go on. It's not an immutable thing for GW.

Yep. Reivers are close support and Aggressors fire support while beeing an elite choice.

But there is no hope for Eliminators beeing troops. I'd say they are elites.

Oh, that's really strange. I never noticed that they don't have the right markings.

Mandragola wrote:

 Crimson_ wrote:
The standard Vanguard Primaris have battleline markings just as Intercessors. Exterminators and the autocannon dudes have markings for fire support.
AFAIK there are no Marines with battleline symbol that are not troops.

Cool. However, Reivers have the fast attack symbol and Aggressors have the heavy support one. Both are elites.

Not saying that the vanguard guys aren't troops (and I hope that they are) only that whatever's painted on them doesn't give us much to go on. It's not an immutable thing for GW.

Let's get some terminology correct here.
Reivers and Inceptors both have the "Close Support" Squad markings. The role per the fluff is "the designated troops must be fast, aggressive, and hard-hitting". It's a bit of a laugh about them with regards to Reivers certainly, but the role is pretty clearly defined. It doesn't say they're Elites or Fast Attacks or whatever.
Hellblasters and Aggressors are both classed as "Fire Support" Squads and have that marking--again they don't have a specific slot.

Was anyone really surprised though that the pseudo-Terminator unit ended up in Elites while the pseudo-Devastator unit ended up in HS? That the kinda/sorta Assault Squad was in FA and the kinda/sorta Company Veterans ended up in Elites?

I don't think they're much like company vets, nor do I think they really belong in Elites when they're not very, and they've mostly got movement and assault things going for them.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
If the terminator model was only the guy in the picture wielding the two-handed censer mace weapon, then why the picture of the power fist?

Perhaps a new character/lord/whatever kit with the option for multiple loadouts? Can only speculate, but it doesn't seem particularly ornate for a one-off character's armament.

I'm going to guess rather than a new terminator squad kit we're getting a more elite terminator unit. Sorta the undivided alternative to the DG deathshroud.

Yeah I think reivers should be in the fast attack slot. If they are an analogue with anything in the mini-marine range, it’s assault squads.

But really there’s no simple read-across. Aggressors aren’t veterans like terminators are, inceptors aren’t for close combat like assault squads. Primaris guys are just different.

Which means that these new guys are also different. I think it sounds pretty appropriate for sneaky sniper guys to be elites. I don’t know what slot the auto cannon guys should be in, though HS seems likely. It kind of depends how mobile they are.

Reivers are the only unit that feels badly out of place to me. They should clearly be FA. But it’s not really an issue while they are terrible.

 aka_mythos wrote:

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
If the terminator model was only the guy in the picture wielding the two-handed censer mace weapon, then why the picture of the power fist?

Perhaps a new character/lord/whatever kit with the option for multiple loadouts? Can only speculate, but it doesn't seem particularly ornate for a one-off character's armament.

I'm going to guess rather than a new terminator squad kit we're getting a more elite terminator unit. Sorta the undivided alternative to the DG deathshroud.

Abaddon saw Calgar with his new honour guard and was like"boys! We can't have the loyalists showing us up! More gold more spikes!"

Soooo.... What kind of rules would a elite terminator unit need in the current game to be viable? 4++? 3-4 wounds per modell?

stormcraft wrote:
Soooo.... What kind of rules would a elite terminator unit need in the current game to be viable? 4++? 3-4 wounds per modell?

4++ justaerin (sp?) in cataphractii armor with an extra wound for being extra veteran wouldn't be unbelievable.

Personally, I think that bikes' flexible squad size and ability to not need to buy melee weapons makes the Terminator niche pretty difficult to fill: you pretty much need to want to get them right in melee, or need them to come in at exactly the right spot at probably full health.

The best suggested rule I've seen is reduce incoming damage either by one or half, so plasma etc. doesn't nuke them. The new damage system makes them about right against small arms fire, but unfortunately it's just too easy to spam good AP damage 2 etc. Or, figure out a way of giving them better offense at range, which would both be symptomatic of and reinforce the ranged supremacy that is a lot of this edition.

Mandragola wrote:
Sniper scouts will be an awful lot cheaper than eliminators, I'd assume. Eliminators are going to be tougher and have better guns.

That said, I'd be amazed if they were troops. The guys in not-reiver armour might be troops but I'd assume the snipers and autocannon guys would be something else. I'm just not sure what, and I hope they aren't yet more elites.

I'd be amazed if they were troops too on account of having the fire support chevron on their knee pads. Despite there not being a 1 to 1 equivalency for marine battlefield role and force org slot it does kind of follow some basic logic - they aren't battleline, that's for sure.

I'm so glad they are redoing the chaos space marine plastic box, that is getting embarrassing. Obliterators too. I hope all of the rest follow. Devastators(Havoks) /Mutilators etc.

 Irbis wrote:
I like how people speculate termie trophy rack is Abby when I put picture that matches it nearly 100% here 50 pages ago...

It was already brought up. No one really commented on it.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

stormcraft wrote:
Soooo.... What kind of rules would a elite terminator unit need in the current game to be viable? 4++? 3-4 wounds per modell?

4++ justaerin (sp?) in cataphractii armor with an extra wound for being extra veteran wouldn't be unbelievable.

Personally, I think that bikes' flexible squad size and ability to not need to buy melee weapons makes the Terminator niche pretty difficult to fill: you pretty much need to want to get them right in melee, or need them to come in at exactly the right spot at probably full health.

The best suggested rule I've seen is reduce incoming damage either by one or half, so plasma etc. doesn't nuke them. The new damage system makes them about right against small arms fire, but unfortunately it's just too easy to spam good AP damage 2 etc. Or, figure out a way of giving them better offense at range, which would both be symptomatic of and reinforce the ranged supremacy that is a lot of this edition.

IIRC what makes death shroud so beloved is their ability to interacept weapons fire aimed at chars

Getting a bit bored of all the teasing now, this weekend I was buzzing for some.pics or whatever but nothing.

In regards to making marines marines again I think reducing the ap of all incoming fire by 1 would be spot on.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Getting a bit bored of all the teasing now, this weekend I was buzzing for some.pics or whatever but nothing.

In regards to making marines marines again I think reducing the ap of all incoming fire by 1 would be spot on.

yeah, and I agree, they need to show us the models. they've reached the point of prolonging the hype

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

stormcraft wrote:
Soooo.... What kind of rules would a elite terminator unit need in the current game to be viable? 4++? 3-4 wounds per modell?

4++ justaerin (sp?) in cataphractii armor with an extra wound for being extra veteran wouldn't be unbelievable.

Personally, I think that bikes' flexible squad size and ability to not need to buy melee weapons makes the Terminator niche pretty difficult to fill: you pretty much need to want to get them right in melee, or need them to come in at exactly the right spot at probably full health.

The best suggested rule I've seen is reduce incoming damage either by one or half, so plasma etc. doesn't nuke them. The new damage system makes them about right against small arms fire, but unfortunately it's just too easy to spam good AP damage 2 etc. Or, figure out a way of giving them better offense at range, which would both be symptomatic of and reinforce the ranged supremacy that is a lot of this edition.

2+/4++ would be a good start. Assuming its a new unit, I think the main thing GW will want to think about is how far to take Abaddon's flavor of undivided. In the books he has 4 adviser/generals each committed to a different chaos god. What if these terminators play off that theme in a lesser way, or even just represent the 40k equivalent of the fantasy Varanguard. A 4 model swiss army knife, that notionally benefits from all the chaos gods, without fizzying out into "undivided".

A terminator with +1 inv, 5+++, +1attack on the charge who always fights first? I would take it

Seeing as the Vigilus teasers are also posted here, might as well make this into a combined thread for both the boxed set and upcoming book.

stormcraft wrote:
A terminator with +1 inv, 5+++, +1attack on the charge who always fights first? I would take it

The balance to something hypothetical like this could easily be that if you lose the representative of the particular god you lose the respective god's benefit to the whole unit. Or not, its GW, who needs balance when you can say its streamlined.