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WhiteDog wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
Ugh if the vanguard troops have a Bolt carbine standard then why bother? If you want that take intercessors with their auto bolt rifle.

I really hope they have something to make them worthwhile

They're sneaky.
Best case scenario this phobos captain guy give access to a vanguard formation or some rules that permit modified deployment or something like. Worst case scenario it's an army of reivers and they're useless.

IIRC there is nothing different about reiver armor vs regular armor right now, except for the morale rule. Movement and durability wise they're the same as normal primaris, right?

the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, what exciting new options for primaris space marine enthusiasts.

A librarian with a force sword and bolt pistol.

A captain with a MC bolt weapon and power sword.

A troop unit in power armor armed with bolt weapons.

What exciting new tactical flexibility and options this adds to the primaris space marine range! Primaris marine players, how will this change your lists - are you super psyched to have all these new unit choices?

I just don't understand that. Why don't they use all those new models to give the units more options?

GW: "But if we give this Librarian a power axe then people that buys the other librarian will need to make a conversion"... no! You'll selll them TWO librarians! (Or not, but many people would buy the different models to have all the weapon options)

Pfff. Is stupid.

the_scotsman wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
Ugh if the vanguard troops have a Bolt carbine standard then why bother? If you want that take intercessors with their auto bolt rifle.

I really hope they have something to make them worthwhile

They're sneaky.
Best case scenario this phobos captain guy give access to a vanguard formation or some rules that permit modified deployment or something like. Worst case scenario it's an army of reivers and they're useless.

IIRC there is nothing different about reiver armor vs regular armor right now, except for the morale rule. Movement and durability wise they're the same as normal primaris, right?

Only thing is reiver have access to grav-chutes and grapnel launcher. That's it.

Primaris ATM are noth woth it. And this Vanguards if they do not come with cool special rules will also not be worth it.

Maybe they came with cool strats, if not.....

This guy is a glorified Lieutenant model. He literally brings nothing new to the table short of having a cloak. And from what it looks like the cloak is going to cost him his ability to have an Iron Halo. Pointless model.

I'll wait to complain about the lack of an Invuln Save, until we know for sure that he lacks an Invuln Save.

New story is up. I think it is the worst by far so far.

I mean, I know this is the IoM, but the machine makes no sense...

And fingernails? Really?!

 Nostromodamus wrote:
All this new gak that Marines keep getting must be making the Fabricator General of Mars itching for another schism. Every new release is blatant tech heresy.

I dunno, one of the biggest turn offs for me in 40K fluff is the whole "hurr durr technology scary, but we use it all the time actually, but hurr durr its scary!"

I wouldn't mind seeing that part of 40K go into the past and get replaced with something more akin to the world in AoS. Grimderp is a product of a different time, perhaps its time to let it rest?

In the grim darkness of the far future there are only ported supressors attached to weapons that fire rockets...

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
This guy is a glorified Lieutenant model. He literally brings nothing new to the table short of having a cloak. And from what it looks like the cloak is going to cost him his ability to have an Iron Halo. Pointless model.

Pssst. Maybe wait for a data sheet before going full panic mode.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Well, from the image shown I don't see any space marines equipped with anything but boltguns.

So this is going to be a "tactically flexible" commando unit of super duper specialists...armed with all the variation of necron warriors. And presumably, with identical weaponry to another unit that the primaris marines already have....

Yikers.

Add onto that the special bonus of Captain Mcbeardenstein having a silenced boltgun. You know, a boltgun, the weapon that features miniature RPGs as ammunition.

"now, I shall stealthily take down this enemy patrol"

*thwp thwp thwp*

*BOOM BOOM BOOM*

*every enemy within a 40 mile radius hears the explosions of detonating bolt rounds, immediately on alert*

The explosive report of a boltgun's ammunition wouldn't be that loud in the first place, its roughly a 20mm cartridge and the fluff has long mentioned different payloads for the Suppressed Boltguns.

Also, suppressed guns are not silent, outside a handful of extremely specialised weapons that almost are (like the Welrod and DeLisle carbine). Suppressing a weapon does not make it so a soldier can pick off sentries without being detected. It means their own location remains harder to determine through reduced muzzle flash and lower noise. Enemies in the area will still be alerted.

 Nostromodamus wrote:
In the grim darkness of the far future there are only ported supressors attached to weapons that fire rockets...

Why does that bother you?

It's a galaxy filled with:

60 Million year old murder robots
Literal Gods and Demons
Magic Space Elves
Literal Nazi Commies


If you're looking at this from a "realistic" perspective, you're in the wrong game my friend.

WhiteDog wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
Ugh if the vanguard troops have a Bolt carbine standard then why bother? If you want that take intercessors with their auto bolt rifle.

I really hope they have something to make them worthwhile

They're sneaky.
Best case scenario this phobos captain guy give access to a vanguard formation or some rules that permit modified deployment or something like. Worst case scenario it's an army of reivers and they're useless.

IIRC there is nothing different about reiver armor vs regular armor right now, except for the morale rule. Movement and durability wise they're the same as normal primaris, right?

Only thing is reiver have access to grav-chutes and grapnel launcher. That's it.

Best case scenario they can deploy like scouts with a buffed carbine

Worst case they are intercessors with "auto bolt rifles" that can take grav chutes

 Haighus wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Well, from the image shown I don't see any space marines equipped with anything but boltguns.

So this is going to be a "tactically flexible" commando unit of super duper specialists...armed with all the variation of necron warriors. And presumably, with identical weaponry to another unit that the primaris marines already have....

Yikers.

Add onto that the special bonus of Captain Mcbeardenstein having a silenced boltgun. You know, a boltgun, the weapon that features miniature RPGs as ammunition.

"now, I shall stealthily take down this enemy patrol"

*thwp thwp thwp*

*BOOM BOOM BOOM*

*every enemy within a 40 mile radius hears the explosions of detonating bolt rounds, immediately on alert*

The explosive report of a boltgun's ammunition wouldn't be that loud in the first place, its roughly a 20mm cartridge and the fluff has long mentioned different payloads for the Suppressed Boltguns.

Also, suppressed guns are not silent, outside a handful of extremely specialised weapons that almost are. Suppressing a weapon does not make it so a soldier can pick off sentries without being detected. It means their own location remains harder to determine through reduced muzzle flash and lower noise. Enemies in the area will still be alerted.

To add to that, it's also for hearing protection for the firer.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
This guy is a glorified Lieutenant model. He literally brings nothing new to the table short of having a cloak. And from what it looks like the cloak is going to cost him his ability to have an Iron Halo. Pointless model.

The Iron Halo is on the servitor that hangs around I think.

Haighus wrote:

Spoiler:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Well, from the image shown I don't see any space marines equipped with anything but boltguns.

So this is going to be a "tactically flexible" commando unit of super duper specialists...armed with all the variation of necron warriors. And presumably, with identical weaponry to another unit that the primaris marines already have....

Yikers.

Add onto that the special bonus of Captain Mcbeardenstein having a silenced boltgun. You know, a boltgun, the weapon that features miniature RPGs as ammunition.

"now, I shall stealthily take down this enemy patrol"

*thwp thwp thwp*

*BOOM BOOM BOOM*

*every enemy within a 40 mile radius hears the explosions of detonating bolt rounds, immediately on alert*

The explosive report of a boltgun's ammunition wouldn't be that loud in the first place, its roughly a 20mm cartridge and the fluff has long mentioned different payloads for the Suppressed Boltguns.

Also, suppressed guns are not silent, outside a handful of extremely specialised weapons that almost are (like the Welrod and DeLisle carbine). Suppressing a weapon does not make it so a soldier can pick off sentries without being detected. It means their own location remains harder to determine through reduced muzzle flash and lower noise. Enemies in the area will still be alerted.

Togusa wrote:

Spoiler:

 Haighus wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Well, from the image shown I don't see any space marines equipped with anything but boltguns.

So this is going to be a "tactically flexible" commando unit of super duper specialists...armed with all the variation of necron warriors. And presumably, with identical weaponry to another unit that the primaris marines already have....

Yikers.

Add onto that the special bonus of Captain Mcbeardenstein having a silenced boltgun. You know, a boltgun, the weapon that features miniature RPGs as ammunition.

"now, I shall stealthily take down this enemy patrol"

*thwp thwp thwp*

*BOOM BOOM BOOM*

*every enemy within a 40 mile radius hears the explosions of detonating bolt rounds, immediately on alert*

The explosive report of a boltgun's ammunition wouldn't be that loud in the first place, its roughly a 20mm cartridge and the fluff has long mentioned different payloads for the Suppressed Boltguns.

Also, suppressed guns are not silent, outside a handful of extremely specialised weapons that almost are. Suppressing a weapon does not make it so a soldier can pick off sentries without being detected. It means their own location remains harder to determine through reduced muzzle flash and lower noise. Enemies in the area will still be alerted.

To add to that, it's also for hearing protection for the firer.

Exactly

 Togusa wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

Also, suppressed guns are not silent, outside a handful of extremely specialised weapons that almost are. Suppressing a weapon does not make it so a soldier can pick off sentries without being detected. It means their own location remains harder to determine through reduced muzzle flash and lower noise. Enemies in the area will still be alerted.

To add to that, it's also for hearing protection for the firer.

Also true, but I thought this bit was less relevant to Marines with their enhanced biology and autosenses. Important for unaugmented humans though!

WhiteDog wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
This guy is a glorified Lieutenant model. He literally brings nothing new to the table short of having a cloak. And from what it looks like the cloak is going to cost him his ability to have an Iron Halo. Pointless model.

The Iron Halo is on the servitor that hangs around I think.

That would be stupid and awesome at the same time.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
This guy is a glorified Lieutenant model. He literally brings nothing new to the table short of having a cloak. And from what it looks like the cloak is going to cost him his ability to have an Iron Halo. Pointless model.

The Iron Halo is on the servitor that hangs around I think.

That would be stupid and awesome at the same time.

Sounds perfect for 40k then!

He will have some sort of Invuln for sure.

 Haighus wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

Also, suppressed guns are not silent, outside a handful of extremely specialised weapons that almost are. Suppressing a weapon does not make it so a soldier can pick off sentries without being detected. It means their own location remains harder to determine through reduced muzzle flash and lower noise. Enemies in the area will still be alerted.

To add to that, it's also for hearing protection for the firer.

Also true, but I thought this bit was less relevant to Marines with their enhanced biology and autosenses. Important for unaugmented humans though!

Wouldn't enhanced senses make them even more susceptible to hearing damage? But, I do bet the guard appreciate it!

Alex_85 wrote:
He will have some sort of Invuln for sure.

you would think Lieutenants and Librarians would as well but they don't so it's not totally outside the realm of possibility that he doesn't have one.

So basically we've got the same situation for the marines as for the CSM: we can see models but we won't know if they're worth having until we see rules.

So, basically the same situation as every release, ever. You'd think we'd be used to this by now!

My prediction: some of the new stuff will be rubbish. Only a tiny minority of it is likely to be used by competitive players. There'll be units that don't really have a compelling reason to exist - like reivers today.

This is fine. It's just the way it is. At least nowadays GW listens to feedback and fixes points values. So if it's not right on release day things ought ot improve over time.

For the Primaris characters I think that if the lieutenant and librarian bring useful attributes then they could be worth bringing. They are equipped the same as existing guys so their special rules could justify including them. At least they aren't worse than what we already have.

It's just the captain whose profile is a bit wasted if he's only got a knife. Even he might potentially have some kind of special rule that makes him worthwhile, like say if he's got a buff to hand out.

Togusa wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

Also, suppressed guns are not silent, outside a handful of extremely specialised weapons that almost are. Suppressing a weapon does not make it so a soldier can pick off sentries without being detected. It means their own location remains harder to determine through reduced muzzle flash and lower noise. Enemies in the area will still be alerted.

To add to that, it's also for hearing protection for the firer.

Also true, but I thought this bit was less relevant to Marines with their enhanced biology and autosenses. Important for unaugmented humans though!

Wouldn't enhanced senses make them even more susceptible to hearing damage? But, I do bet the guard appreciate it!

I was more thinking their enhanced healing capabilities probably make long-term neurological damage of the ear a non-issue. Or most degenerative conditions for that matter.

casvalremdeikun wrote:

Alex_85 wrote:
He will have some sort of Invuln for sure.

you would think Lieutenants and Librarians would as well but they don't so it's not totally outside the realm of possibility that he doesn't have one.

Yeah, it is a bit odd when every Imperial Guard officer of the rank of Captain and above gets a refractor field. If refractor fields are so abundant, Marine Lieutenants should definitely get them. To be honest, every single Marine should get them if they are that common. There are something like 1 million Marines total, there will be far more IG officers of Captain and above.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Alex_85 wrote:
He will have some sort of Invuln for sure.

you would think Lieutenants and Librarians would as well but they don't so it's not totally outside the realm of possibility that he doesn't have one.

He'd be the only Captain with out one, killing the chance people ever take him.

Anyway, the thing to complain about, as Crimson Fist players, is that he has a Master Crafted Bolt Carbine, so he can't take the Crimson Fist relic Bolter.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Alex_85 wrote:
He will have some sort of Invuln for sure.

you would think Lieutenants and Librarians would as well but they don't so it's not totally outside the realm of possibility that he doesn't have one.

He'd be the only Captain with out one, killing the chance people ever take him.

Anyway, the thing to complain about, as Crimson Fist players, is that he has a Master Crafted Bolt Carbine, so he can't take the Crimson Fist relic Bolter.

yeah that is pretty crappy too. But I give the Relic Bolter to an ancient anyway.

 Nostromodamus wrote:
In the grim darkness of the far future there are only ported supressors attached to weapons that fire rockets...

In the grim darkness of the far future....

There are actual Daemons.

A bored person with sufficient authority can end a planet.

There are actual Gods.

I wouldn’t worry about The minutiae

 Insane Ivan wrote:
I think the servo skull is messing with his profile a bit: moving it to another location on the model might help.

Same thought. Took a hack at it in gimp and moved the skull to the virtual bitz box:

I anyone else LOL'ing at the descriptions of Primaris Vanguard Marines from the Community article?

First, Vanguard Primaris Marines—not to be confused with "Vanguard Veterans" No, no, completely different! THESE marines are the Primar-est marines to ever lead from the tippity tip of "the tip of the spear" unlike others who lead or have lead before (scouts, vanguard, reivers, et al). THESE guys lead the charge while your opponent is still opening his carry case.

"Vanguard Space Marines are elite reconnaissance troops, trained to operate without support across the deadliest frontiers of the galaxy."

OK, Fair enough...

Ranging far ahead of their battle-brothers, they drop behind enemy lines, deep into hostile territory. Once in position, they launch a campaign of total devastation against the enemy. Every component of the opposing war machine is taken apart piece by piece – communications are severed, key commanders assassinated, supply caches demolished and morale drained away by unrelenting terror-strikes. When the enemy are all but beaten, the Vanguard Space Marines emerge from the shadows to deliver the killing strike.

So, um...where does the recon part come in?

I imagine Captain Acheran swings by Marneus Calgar's field office after Nemendghast:
Acheran: Heeeey Marnie!
Calgar: Oh hey man! I didn't hear you come in—always the sneaky one!
Acheran: Right, so you know that planet you asked us to investigate to see if the enemy was there?
Calgar: Yeah?
Acheran: They aren't. I mean, they WERE there, but just not any more cuz we recon'ed them to death.
Calgar:Thanks Archie. You always give the best intel. Keep up the good work!



Also Captain Acheran is "A modest and taciturn commander" They totally nailed his essence with the mini because he looks super-chill. I bet he shouts like that and gestures dramatically during most of his covert "recon" missions.
Don't get me wrong, I'm still looking forward to all of this, but you can't help but see the humor here...

?