Shadow Spear / New Chaos Space Marines

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**Crimson**

VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

He'd be the only Captain with out one, killing the chance people ever take him.

You never know, LIas Issodon, a Chapter Master doesn't have one! Granted, that's probably because FW rules team is useless.

**NAVARRO**

He could come with a pocket knife and a nerd gun for all I care, cool model is cool.

**Kanluwen**

Nostromodamus wrote:
In the grim darkness of the far future there are only ported supressors attached to weapons that fire rockets...

Pretty sure that at one point they've talked about Stalker patterns actually having their own specialized rounds that are effectively just solid slugs.

Brother Xeones wrote:So, um...where does the recon part come in?

Everything that is described there would lend itself to a commando unit that also engages in reconnaissance. It's just recon by force--they pick their own targets and handle them, or they pass it to someone else who can.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Crimson wrote:
VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

He'd be the only Captain with out one, killing the chance people ever take him.

You never know, LIas Issodon, a Chapter Master doesn't have one! Granted, that's probably because FW rules team is useless.

Im gonna go with FW being useless on that one. And expecting people to always hide him in as much cover as possible.

**Asherian Command**

Why won't they give us options with these characters.... Emperor be praised. We don't want another static mini, give us a multipart kit and give us options to put a freaking helmet on.

**BrianDavion**

keep in mind guys this isn't a new unit, but it's a new mini. that means all the war gear will be "in addition to what the captain has now" so if the captain has a reiver style knife? that means we will have the option to take a combat knife over a power sword. This is a good thing as a combat knife costs 0 points and a lot of the time captains are used to hold down a gunline. I GARENTEE we'll see people using this option.
Secondly, the cloak is proably a cameo cloak. another option the captain will get. being pessimiatic you may have to trade out an iron Halo for it. I suspect it'd be a poor trade but perhaps the number crunches are gonna be able to figure out uses I'm not seeing.

So yeah, it would be nice if this guy had a MC bolt rifle, but even without I am definatly seeing new options for Primaris captains on this mini

**Xenomancers**

Mandragola wrote:
So basically we've got the same situation for the marines as for the CSM: we can see models but we won't know if they're worth having until we see rules.

So, basically the same situation as every release, ever. You'd think we'd be used to this by now!

My prediction: some of the new stuff will be rubbish. Only a tiny minority of it is likely to be used by competitive players. There'll be units that don't really have a compelling reason to exist - like reivers today.

This is fine. It's just the way it is. At least nowadays GW listens to feedback and fixes points values. So if it's not right on release day things ought ot improve over time.

For the Primaris characters I think that if the lieutenant and librarian bring useful attributes then they could be worth bringing. They are equipped the same as existing guys so their special rules could justify including them. At least they aren't worse than what we already have.

It's just the captain whose profile is a bit wasted if he's only got a knife. Even he might potentially have some kind of special rule that makes him worthwhile, like say if he's got a buff to hand out.

No doubt it's reroll 1's. Something the army lacks at it's core between Chapter masters/ and primarchs / and stratagems.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

NAVARRO wrote:
He could come with a pocket knife and a nerd gun for all I care, cool model is cool.

Counts as Telion for me ofc.

**Kanluwen**

BrianDavion wrote:
keep in mind guys this isn't a new unit, but it's a new mini. that means all the war gear will be "in addition to what the captain has now" so if the captain has a reiver style knife? that means we will have the option to take a combat knife over a power sword. This is a good thing as a combat knife costs 0 points and a lot of the time captains are used to hold down a gunline. I GARENTEE we'll see people using this option.
Secondly, the cloak is proably a cameo cloak. another option the captain will get. being pessimiatic you may have to trade out an iron Halo for it. I suspect it'd be a poor trade but perhaps the number crunches are gonna be able to figure out uses I'm not seeing.

So yeah, it would be nice if this guy had a MC bolt rifle, but even without I am definatly seeing new options for Primaris captains on this mini

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but no. The "captain" won't get that in addition to what he already has.

They've gone out of their way to make specific profiles for the different Armor types for Primaris. They specifically noted this is a Captain in Phobos Armor.

**Dread Master**

Man oh man I dislike that armor..... it just doesn’t feel space marine enough to me. I was hoping Reivers would be the only transgressors. I want the box, but I imagine the loyalist side will be the harder side to sell off on eBay.

**WhiteDog**

BrianDavion wrote:
keep in mind guys this isn't a new unit, but it's a new mini. that means all the war gear will be "in addition to what the captain has now" so if the captain has a reiver style knife? that means we will have the option to take a combat knife over a power sword. This is a good thing as a combat knife costs 0 points and a lot of the time captains are used to hold down a gunline. I GARENTEE we'll see people using this option.
Secondly, the cloak is proably a cameo cloak. another option the captain will get. being pessimiatic you may have to trade out an iron Halo for it. I suspect it'd be a poor trade but perhaps the number crunches are gonna be able to figure out uses I'm not seeing.

So yeah, it would be nice if this guy had a MC bolt rifle, but even without I am definatly seeing new options for Primaris captains on this mini

I'm pretty sure the combat knife will be available only to phobos armored captain.

**Nostromodamus**

Togusa wrote:
Nostromodamus wrote:
In the grim darkness of the far future there are only ported supressors attached to weapons that fire rockets...

Why does that bother you?

It's a galaxy filled with:

60 Million year old murder robots
Literal Gods and Demons
Magic Space Elves
Literal Nazi Commies

If you're looking at this from a "realistic" perspective, you're in the wrong game my friend.

Did I say it bothered me?

As a gun nut I love this stuff because it highlights the madness of technology in 40k. Even something as mundane as a bolt weapon has pointless bits on it because to alter the design would be heretical.

**GoatboyBeta**

Captain looks good IMO. Although I hope there is an option to build him wearing his helm.

The new short story has some interesting possible hints.https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/01/tales-from-vigilus-10-the-messengergw-homepage-post-4/

Spoiler:

**Mandragola**

We’ll sure, the captain will give out a reroll 1s order. He might also do some other stuff.

And as already mentioned, if he’s just a normal captain with a knife for +1A, that’s not the worst thing.

**ceorron**

Boss Salvage wrote:
Insane Ivan wrote:
I think the servo skull is messing with his profile a bit: moving it to another location on the model might help.
Same thought. Took a hack at it in gimp and moved the skull to the virtual bitz box:

That's better for certain but still prefer the original.

**Sgt_Smudge**

Daaaaamn.

I LOVE IT.
Been keeping an eager eye on the Shadowspear models, looked at using them to build up my 10th Company, and these guys so far are looking excellent for that.

I've already built a "Captain" for them, also based off of the Reiver body, but I may just have to demote him to being one of the Lieutenant of 10th Company, this guy does look very good! Not over fond of the servo-skull (just looks like it'll be awkward to transport) and the reliquary on his waist, but I love the rest.

Can't say I really care about the gameplay, and I'm disappointed by how many people seem to think he's worthless because his stats might be poor.

I was planning on buying the whole box, and selling off the CSM bits (depends on how many there are, if there's too many, I'll probably pass on doing them myself), but I might just be able to nab a whole set of the Primaris models from people reselling them, if they're that unpopular apparently!

**Bobthehero**

I prefer the other Primaris snipers, might be because of the helmet.

**Brother Xeones**

Kanluwen wrote:

Brother Xeones wrote:So, um...where does the recon part come in?

Everything that is described there would lend itself to a commando unit that also engages in reconnaissance. It's just recon by force--they pick their own targets and handle them, or they pass it to someone else who can.

I'm familiar with the concept of reconnaissance in force—but what I'm saying is that there's not actually any mention of said intel gathering. No discussion of "preparing the way for the main Space Marine force" no "Marked for Death" feeling from any of what they said. They don't actually say anything other than briefly mentioning "reconnaissance" and something about the "tip of the spear". Presumably, if you get poked with the tip of the spear, the rest of the spear is set to follow. But instead all we really get is "We work alone—without aid from the main force, and we use isometric warefare techniques and terror tactics to systematically take the enemy down piece by piece from the shadows before emerging to perform the killing blow". That's not Recon—that's describing Nightlords without the ridiculous bat wing hats.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Crimson wrote:
VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

He'd be the only Captain with out one, killing the chance people ever take him.

You never know, LIas Issodon, a Chapter Master doesn't have one! Granted, that's probably because FW rules team is useless.

Lias NEVER had the Iron Halo as far as I know, even when he was first introduced.
He's always had the equivalent of a bonus to cover saves (Shrouded or Stealth last edition, I think he had Shrouded) with his 2+. This edition he gets sorta the same bonus. He was designed that way on purpose if you hadn't noticed.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asherian Command wrote:
Why won't they give us options with these characters.... Emperor be praised. We don't want another static mini, give us a multipart kit and give us options to put a freaking helmet on.

I will say this is the thing that annoys me more than anything else in GW's design team. I HATE bare heads and always have. When it was revealed Roboute had a helmet option, that shot my 0% chance of buying him in the future to a solid "maybe near the end of 2019 or beginning of 2020".

**Redemption**

Brother Xeones wrote:
isometric warefare techniques

I'm sure that's just a typo or autocorrect issue, but that just tickled my funny bone.

Spoiler:

**Brother Xeones**

Redemption wrote:
Brother Xeones wrote:
isometric warefare techniques

I'm sure that's just a typo or autocorrect issue, but that just tickled my funny bone.

Spoiler:

Oops. :-D

**alleus**

I would much prefer the captain guy with a helmet on. Unfortunately he seems to have his helmet sheathed on his back. Maybe you can clip that off and find a spare head for him somewhere.

I do like the model, but he is described as calm and collected, even under enemy fire and the chaos of a battlefield, but he stands there screaming and pointing. I would have preferred him with a pose like this:

Anyway, he's not terrible, I do the model overall. Rules I don't really mind too much. I just want them for Kill Team. If they get their own rules, great! If not, I'll just play them as Intercessors and Reivers.

**Crimson**

The incessant whining about the helmets is so tiresome. I really don't understand that how in this universe fuelled by ludicrousness and nonsense that is the hill so many people choose to die on?

**Bobthehero**

Because the fact that demon exists don't make your head headshot proof

**Voss**

That was a weird read and preview.

One, hurrah for Captain pointing marine #overflow_memory_value_lost.

Two, the Vanguard methodology seems... exactly like how marines are canonically supposed to fight given their numbers limitation. Limited support is a 'well, obviously' as proper support would involved Guard regiments, artillery and armor as well as Navy fighters and/or bombardments.

Three, model itself is... Eh. Gaps in the armor seem excessive, and yeah, Helmet. The servo skull as a jack-in-the-box for his knee and half-cloak that can't possibly fit over his backpack do the model no favors.

The glimpses of the librarian were way more impressive than 'Rifle Captain the Ineffectual.' title change possible if he has magic bullets that change his to wound and AP numbers.

**alleus**

Crimson wrote:
The incessant whining about the helmets is so tiresome. I really don't understand that how in this universe fuelled by ludicrousness and nonsense that is the hill so many people choose to die on?

Incessant whining? Geez, it's just that some of us prefer our soldiers with helmets. Especially "tactical" marines like these. It was even referenced in one of the short stories:
‘Arcturos three down,’ Gerio said into his vox, secure in the knowledge that not a whisper of sound would escape his skull-faced helm.

Stuff like that is cool to me. Exposing your head and shouting instead of calmly and quietly issuing orders seems silly, more so when these guys are said to work quite the opposite way to regular marines, with their zealous screaming etc.

**Galef**

alleus wrote:

For the briefest of seconds, I thought you were posting some new artwork from the set and I thought "Chaos Primaris!?!?! It's finally happening!!"
But then I realized that's just a Heresy era AL dude and was disappointed

Crimson wrote:
The incessant whining about the helmets is so tiresome. I really don't understand that how in this universe fuelled by ludicrousness and nonsense that is the hill so many people choose to die on?

At least all the "helmetless" Primaris at least have the helmet at their hip, as if they just took it off for a moment and could very well put it back on once the fire-fight starts.

-

**Crimson**

alleus wrote:

Incessant whining? Geez, it's just that some of us prefer our soldiers with helmets.

It is incessant because every time there is a model without a helmet released there is bunch of people complaining about it, like a clockwork. GW has released models without helmets for thirty years, they're not gonna stop. Deal with it.

**buddha**

I always do helmets as just from a practical level I hate, and poor at, painting skin tones, hair, etc.

**alleus**

Galef wrote:
alleus wrote:

Spoiler:

For the briefest of seconds, I thought you were posting some new artwork from the set and I thought "Chaos Primaris!?!?! It's finally happening!!"
But then I realized that's just a Heresy era AL dude and was disappointed

I don't think it's Heresy era. AFAIK the Alpha Legion didn't have Chaos iconography until quite much later. Some still don't. Anyway, it's one of my favourite pieces of artwork for the Alpha Legion, it captures their essence very well. Hope to see some stuff like this for the Vanguard Primaris!

Crimson wrote:
alleus wrote:

Incessant whining? Geez, it's just that some of us prefer our soldiers with helmets.

It is incessant because every time there is a model without a helmet released there is bunch of people complaining about it, like a clockwork. GW has released models without helmets for thirty years, they're not gonna stop. Deal with it.

And people will keep having opinions you don't like hearing, they're not gonna stop either. No need to be rude.

**warboss**

Galef wrote:
For the briefest of seconds, I thought you were posting some new artwork from the set and I thought "Chaos Primaris!?!?! It's finally happening!!"
But then I realized that's just a Heresy era AL dude and was disappointed
-

I had the opposite happen. "Crap... they're making chaos primaris!" when I saw the helmet and then scanned further down the pic and breathed a sigh of relief that it's a Mk IV iirc.