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Abaddon being similar to Horus has always been part of his fluff; granted, it made more sense before Primarchs were these bizarre giant freaks they're today.

Supressors with an Onslaught gatling cannon and a cyclone-light missile rack would be fantastic....would match the name.

 bullyboy wrote:
Supressors with an Onslaught gatling cannon and a cyclone-light missile rack would be fantastic....would match the name.

My issue with the Onslaught Gatling Cannon is that it is functionally identical to them having two Heavy Bolters, which is what the Inceptors have. A multi-missile launcher would be cool. Maybe make it sort of like the Castellan Launchers of the Whirlwind. 2d6 Str 6 AP 0 shots.

 Virules wrote:
However, reading the ADB books, it seems to me that Abbadon wasn't just huge, he was unusually similar to Horus in size and resemblance to the point where he could be almost be a Primarch.

The key part of that sentence is "ADB". He always inflates certain characters beyond reasonable limits (like Khayon and that ridiculous sword of his).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Virules wrote:
However, reading the ADB books, it seems to me that Abbadon wasn't just huge, he was unusually similar to Horus in size and resemblance to the point where he could be almost be a Primarch.

The key part of that sentence is "ADB". He always inflates certain characters beyond reasonable limits (like Khayon and that ridiculous sword of his).

He also has unrivaled access to published and unpublished background material directly from the people who have determined the entire setting. Not to mention that his books are referenced as core canon more and more frequently by GW.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Virules wrote:
However, reading the ADB books, it seems to me that Abbadon wasn't just huge, he was unusually similar to Horus in size and resemblance to the point where he could be almost be a Primarch.

The key part of that sentence is "ADB". He always inflates certain characters beyond reasonable limits (like Khayon and that ridiculous sword of his).

The suggestion that Abaddon was possibly a clone of Horus dates back to 2nd edition. It's only the Primarchs being stupidly large that has been added by the novels.

 Virules wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Virules wrote:
However, reading the ADB books, it seems to me that Abbadon wasn't just huge, he was unusually similar to Horus in size and resemblance to the point where he could be almost be a Primarch.

The key part of that sentence is "ADB". He always inflates certain characters beyond reasonable limits (like Khayon and that ridiculous sword of his).

He also has unrivaled access to published and unpublished background material directly from the people who have determined the entire setting. Not to mention that his books are referenced as core canon more and more frequently by GW.

And Abaddon being the "spitting image of Horus" to the point where people thought he was a clone has LOOOONG been a part of the lore

Not sure if direct linking is allowed here, but I have a pic of the Obscuration discipline on my blog (link in sig).

 Virules wrote:
Not sure if direct linking is allowed here, but I have a pic of the Obscuration discipline on my blog (link in sig).

If this is true these powers are gonna be pretty amazeballs. but are also INSANELY situational because they'll basicly only buff Phobos units.

Sterling191 wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
<SNIP>

The level of assumption and fear mongering in this post is delicious. Please continue.

There will be a flood of Primaris Lieutenants all wearing the same weapons and costumes, one will have a facial beard, another will be a vampire, one will be a wolfy wolf, and it will destroy the miniature world. Codex Primaris Lieutenant, deathwatch insurgency. no refunds

 Virules wrote:
Not sure if direct linking is allowed here, but I have a pic of the Obscuration discipline on my blog (link in sig).

Cheers.

The Obscuration Discipline is... quite interesting.

I'm sure better players than me can find some good use for Shrouding and Temporal Corridor, but personally I can't see myself using these powers very often, however:

Scryer's Gaze seems solid on a large unit of Infiltrators (and probably Eliminators), assuming you can't get re-rolls from a different source (Captain/CM).
Hallucination is outright nasty against shooty units with poor/average leadership, and works on melee-units as well.
Tenebrous Curse will more often than not put an non-flying enemy melee unit out of action for a turn.
Mind Raid is hilarious (fluffwise), and who doesn't love extra CP?

All in all, seems like a solid discipline.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Virules wrote:
Not sure if direct linking is allowed here, but I have a pic of the Obscuration discipline on my blog (link in sig).

If this is true these powers are gonna be pretty amazeballs. but are also INSANELY situational because they'll basicly only buff Phobos units.

Yeah the three buff-powers are very situational. Ignore them if you bring few/no Phobos-units to the table.
The three debuff-powers look like solid picks in most lists though, regardless of the number of Phobos-units you bring.

Tenebrous Curse makes the Thousand Sons Doombolt power look like a chump hehe, that thing is awesome.

 MinscS2 wrote:

 Virules wrote:
Not sure if direct linking is allowed here, but I have a pic of the Obscuration discipline on my blog (link in sig).

Cheers.

The Obscuration Discipline is... quite interesting.

I'm sure better players than me can find some good use for Shrouding and Temporal Corridor, but personally I can't see myself using these powers very often.
Scryer's Gaze seems solid on a large unit of Infiltrators (and probably Eliminators), assuming you can't get re-rolls from a different source (Captain/CM).
Hallucination is outright nasty against shooty units with poor/average leadership.
Tenebrous Curse will more often than not put an non-flying enemy melee unit out of action for a turn.
Mind Raid is hilarious (fluffwise), and who doesn't love extra CP?

All in all, seems like a solid discipline.

Now we need one for close support and close combat units. Like an EmperorsChampion with a pseudo Faith ability similar to Sisters of Battle. That'd be cool.

*coughs loudly*

Overall i was reading the rules and i saw something that made me laugh, one of these could be targeted at a knight titan. Make them do a leadership roll and when they fail you just make them roll -1 on all their hit rolls. making them ripe for an attack with some thunderhammers.

And Abaddon being the "spitting image of Horus" to the point where people thought he was a clone has LOOOONG been a part of the lore

I would be fine with that, anything to get the warmaster a new model and some badass action, maybe killing Pedro Kantor or some other famous space marine?

I wouldn't mind. It makes sense given the context of 40k.

Kind of concerning that so much only effects Phobos, if that is an indication I would assume Malefic only effects demon engines. Here is hoping for a +1 to hit for them.

It's a nice discipline! The only thing holding it back is that it's very limited in what units it can go on. If those units are good (ie, cheap), then the buffs will be great. If not, we'll mostly see it for the offensive use.

Will Mind Raid count against the CP regen cap i wonder?

Now we need the Malefic one...

I like Obscuration. 10/10 will use. I don't like Temporal Corridor since, as of right now, we have no Assault Weapon Phobos units. Shrouding would be good for keeping a squad of Eliminators or Infiltrators alive. Especially if you want to keep those Infiltrators around to disrupt Deep Strike. Scryer's Gaze would be good to get those extra hits for a unit of Eliminators. Not bad. Hallucination ruins low Ld units. It would affect Overwatch too, if I remember right. Tenebrous Curse is going to slow something down to the point of uselessness, the MW is a nice add-on. Mind Raid looks to be the best to me. A MW on a Character and a bonus CP if you roll well. I guess you could use it on a non-character if you really hate CPs.

Invul wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:


Neither of those would be (if you mean the frag cannon that is a flamer). This makes me wonder if everyone with military experience or exposure has quit GW, as these Space Marine designs keep getting further and further away from what utilitarian military hardware should be (and was before the Dark Imperium fluff atrocity).

A suppressive weapon would be a heavy bolter, assault cannon or explosive weapon like grenades/missiles. Since you’re not trying to kill but keep someone from engaging.

You do know you’re armchairing Jes freakin’ Goodwin, right? We’re lucky to have someone exploring initially-unexpected silhouettes that make perfect 40k sense the longer you look at them rather than the most obvious weaponry/suit styles you’re advocating for.

Auto Grenade launcher fits the bill. I loved the mk19 on my hmmwv, nasty when loaded w HE. A 40k equiv (that all Astartes can take) would kickass!

The 2 times Jes has been on Voxcast, he has really made me like the primaris concept more. I'm excited to see what else is coming down the pipe.

still trying to figure out how I'll use Infiltrators.
Suppressors are one of the best executions of high mobility firepower that's also man portable. It'll be interesting to see what the other gun is going to be.

Eliminators are cool, but I really hope there is a prone sniper.

 Azazelx wrote:
You can see he's been embiggened by the preview shots. I wouldn't be surprised to see him closer to Guilliman than Calgar at this point.

If he’s been “embiggened” then I hope his stats allow him to make a “cromulent” performance on the gaming table

yeah nothing quite like taking a live 40 off the bolt face

Anyone notice that the head that turned up a while ago doesn't match anything in the shadowspear box? More obliterators incoming?

I think this box might have head options. We know for sure that the Eliminators will have two different options for the non-Sergeant Marines. It is entirely possible other models will have choices as well.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I think this box might have head options. We know for sure that the Eliminators will have two different options for the non-Sergeant Marines. It is entirely possible other models will have choices as well.

GW's gotten pretty good about head options of late, I think they're listening to people who say they like a helmeted option.MOST minis have come with a helmeted option.

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I think this box might have head options. We know for sure that the Eliminators will have two different options for the non-Sergeant Marines. It is entirely possible other models will have choices as well.

GW's gotten pretty good about head options of late, I think they're listening to people who say they like a helmeted option.MOST minis have come with a helmeted option.

From the way it looks, the Sergeants don't have helmets or the choice for one, which sucks, and there is the one Infiltrator that has the half-mask that has a hand molded on his head. The Lieutenant model appears to only get one head choice too.

Personally, I am probably going to leave the models without helmets headless until the regular kits hit so I can put full helmets on them. About the only one that I don't hate that is helmetless is the Infiltrator Sergeant. Perhaps he has a helmet on his belt that I can cut away and put on his head though. If GW was truly a bunch of Bros, they would have packed in extra heads for all of the Phobos dudes with partial or no helmets.

I personally heavily dislike the idea that Abaddon is primarch-like. Sure he was an exceptional fighter, like Sigismund or Sevatar, but Primarch are god like being born from technology and warp. Plus there were marine that looked like their primarch in all legion, that's just one of the after effect of the space marine transformation. There's even Little Horus that is described as a litteral copy of Horus, just smaller.
Abaddon used to play the role of the remnant of what was, the guy that was there when the empire suffered a mortal blow and that accompany its corpse to the after life by coming back every tuesday to make everyone remember what's in the shadow. Its this long death of the empire that's the essence of Grimdark. In this setting Abaddon doesn't need to be primarch like because the empire is already dying. He is an inferior and slightly decadent copy of the great enemy that was - the reason why he was "failbaddon".
With Roboute there's a new hope, so we need a new killer of hope to replay the end of the empire. That's why he is redesigned as a primarch like being.

Obscuration discipline is great and well balanced - I don't see spells necessarily better. I wonder : if they are mini codexes, will there be any stratagem available to the two army ?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I think this box might have head options. We know for sure that the Eliminators will have two different options for the non-Sergeant Marines. It is entirely possible other models will have choices as well.

GW's gotten pretty good about head options of late, I think they're listening to people who say they like a helmeted option.MOST minis have come with a helmeted option.

From the way it looks, the Sergeants don't have helmets or the choice for one, which sucks, and there is the one Infiltrator that has the half-mask that has a hand molded on his head. The Lieutenant model appears to only get one head choice too.

Personally, I am probably going to leave the models without helmets headless until the regular kits hit so I can put full helmets on them. About the only one that I don't hate that is helmetless is the Infiltrator Sergeant. Perhaps he has a helmet on his belt that I can cut away and put on his head though. If GW was truly a bunch of Bros, they would have packed in extra heads for all of the Phobos dudes with partial or no helmets.

with any luck we'll be able to fit heads on anyway, I itted a few MK 3 heads onto my dark imperium intercessors. looked pretty nice.

If we can ever grow the size of eliminators and suppressors beyond three I can see some really solid synergy with the new powers. Giving a unit full rerolls to hit alongside never being targeted would be really good. Their offensive powers are also pretty good with being able to reliably slap two mortal wounds on a character up to 18" away. Stack on that of that the new snipers, assassins and captain there is a lot of character hate on the table for primaris marines.

I think the libby will be really solid on his own merits even without a lot of phobos units around.

anyone at work today / not in the uk

https://www.tickcounter.com/countdown/1029654/80-days-of-wait

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I think this box might have head options. We know for sure that the Eliminators will have two different options for the non-Sergeant Marines. It is entirely possible other models will have choices as well.

GW's gotten pretty good about head options of late, I think they're listening to people who say they like a helmeted option.MOST minis have come with a helmeted option.

From the way it looks, the Sergeants don't have helmets or the choice for one, which sucks, and there is the one Infiltrator that has the half-mask that has a hand molded on his head. The Lieutenant model appears to only get one head choice too.

Personally, I am probably going to leave the models without helmets headless until the regular kits hit so I can put full helmets on them. About the only one that I don't hate that is helmetless is the Infiltrator Sergeant. Perhaps he has a helmet on his belt that I can cut away and put on his head though. If GW was truly a bunch of Bros, they would have packed in extra heads for all of the Phobos dudes with partial or no helmets.

with any luck we'll be able to fit heads on anyway, I itted a few MK 3 heads onto my dark imperium intercessors. looked pretty nice.

I have tons of Mk X heads, but the Phobos aesthetic is different and I would like it to be consistent. I might stick the Imperial Fists Upgrade Sprue helmet on the Suppressor Sergeant though since it still looks a little like the others. I might stick something on the flat part just to make it look the part a little better. The Infiltrators are a tougher nut to crack since their helmets look more unique.

 Latro_ wrote:
anyone at work today / not in the uk

https://www.tickcounter.com/countdown/1029654/80-days-of-wait

1am local time. Not sure it's worth staying up for.

You know, Mind Raid pairs incredibly well with the Vindicare Assassin. You toss Mind Raid at the intended target, then fire away with the Vindicare, hopefully getting Headshot to trigger. You then use the Priority Threat Neutralized and get even more CP.