| Author |
Message |
 |
|
|
|
|
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
2019/03/08 15:22:05
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
|
Well 3 eliminators would be 72 points, not 78.
However, I'm not sure if the wargear is included in the characters' costs. Meaning the librarian would have to pay extra for the force sword etc.
Edit: And the Helix is 32 points, not 23.
Edit2: Sigh, you did the math right, just jumbled the numbers. Disregard edit 1
|
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/03/08 15:35:43
|
|
|
 |
|
2019/03/08 15:35:52
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Using Object Source Lighting
|
 Latro_ wrote:https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/08/shadowspear-focus-expanding-for-matched-play/
Your 10-man squads of Chaos Space Marines are great for holding objectives and offering fire support while the rest of your fast-moving, melee-focussed army speeds towards the foe to engage them in combat. Alternatively, you can use them to follow up your first wave of daemonically possessed gribblies and put the new beta Bolter Discipline rules to good use at close range.
what matched play world these dudes live in haha
I was going to try to defend them, but, yeah, it's really obviously no one who's thinking about playing the game: they're just looking at the sheet and listing some hypothetical things one might do with those stats etc.
Also, what the hell is that Marine army supposed to do against any armor at all? It's got some lucky 6's, but has basically no answer to anything heavier than a Rhino and feels like it would even struggle against something like another mass power armor army. I mean, you have a handful of places you could stick your few heavier weapons, but they're mostly on fragile units.
|
|
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 15:40:57
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine
|
PiñaColada wrote:
Well 3 eliminators would be 72 points, not 78.
However, I'm not sure if the wargear is included in the characters' costs. Meaning the librarian would have to pay extra for the force sword etc.
Edit: And the Helix is 32 points, not 23.
Edit2: Sigh, you did the math right, just jumbled the numbers. Disregard edit 1
Good point! I must have added the camo cloaks twice to the Eliminators. If the characters are still more expensive than the leaked costs I don't know how viable they are. The librarian might be useful at any cost because of his unique powers but it will be hard to fit him into a list.
|
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 15:50:31
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Calculating Commissar
|
The thing I find interesting about that article is how they only show Chaos units included in the box, but show some Marine units which are not (Scouts, Land speeders, Reivers). Reivers are new, so they are not surprising, but the Scouts especially have quite old models now.
The same is true of Possessed, and I am sure they would not want to tease any upcoming multi-part CSM box just yet, but I am surprised they didn't squeeze the Maulerfiend in to a picture.
I wonder if the presence of a Scouts pic but the lack of a Possessed pic suggests the latter may be getting a new kit? Probably not, but if they think they are too ugly to feature in an article...
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/08 15:51:10
 ChargerIIC wrote:If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
|
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 15:50:40
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Using Object Source Lighting
|
Ahriman21 wrote:I disagree with that line of reasoning. You cannot separate the utility of the unit from that of the strat. They exist together and are accessible therefore that cost must be considered in deciding a units validity.
This. I regularly take a heavy bolter or two for hellfire, but don't know if I'd ever consider it at their price without the strat: they're just okay guns without it, and they're so general I'd never bother..
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/08 15:51:05
|
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 15:52:21
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Calculating Commissar
|
 spiralingcadaver wrote:Ahriman21 wrote:I disagree with that line of reasoning. You cannot separate the utility of the unit from that of the strat. They exist together and are accessible therefore that cost must be considered in deciding a units validity.
This. I regularly take a heavy bolter or two for hellfire, but don't know if I'd ever consider it at their price without the strat: they're just okay guns without it, and they're so general I'd never bother..
But as that strategem only applies to Heavy bolters, can't you consider it part of the weapon? It is different for a more general strategem.
|
ChargerIIC wrote:If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
|
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 16:18:46
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Using Object Source Lighting
|
 Haighus wrote: spiralingcadaver wrote:Ahriman21 wrote:I disagree with that line of reasoning. You cannot separate the utility of the unit from that of the strat. They exist together and are accessible therefore that cost must be considered in deciding a units validity.
This. I regularly take a heavy bolter or two for hellfire, but don't know if I'd ever consider it at their price without the strat: they're just okay guns without it, and they're so general I'd never bother..
But as that strategem only applies to Heavy bolters, can't you consider it part of the weapon? It is different for a more general strategem.
That's fair.
|
|
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 16:28:49
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
I tried the same math with the leaked points for the chaos side, and it gives me around 1735 points (no gear on the csm squad, etc). It's still not a lot, so probably the army list they showed is not a real 2000, and more a ''starting point'' for a 2k army.
|
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 16:37:15
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
|
I see that GW "tactics" articles still haven't changed:
"Take these units in their most basic form and the exact contents of this box and then you will have a great army!"
Reminds me of the days when studio built armies would have Dev/Havoc units with 4 different heavy weapons, or Guard Infantry platoons where the heavy and special weapon choices/combinations were likely decided by ouija board.
|
|
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 16:56:18
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Powerful Phoenix Lord
|
VoidSempai wrote:I tried the same math with the leaked points for the chaos side, and it gives me around 1735 points (no gear on the csm squad, etc). It's still not a lot, so probably the army list they showed is not a real 2000, and more a ''starting point'' for a 2k army.
Maybe reinforcement points set aside for summoned Daemons? -
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/08 16:56:35
|
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 17:17:09
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
Hmmm... I wasn't planning on picking up the boxset, as it didn;t seem all thiat interesting, but I have to say - after reading the rules previews, some of the ideas, weapons, effects, etc are so OTT and action-packed, it could make for some really fun matches! Much more so than the initial primaris of Dark Imperium...
Here's hoping they provide (somehow) Blackstone Fortress rules for the Black Legion side...
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/08 17:17:40
|
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 17:33:37
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Chaplain with Hate to Spare
|
It was confirmed today on Warhammer TV that Reivers will be getting the Phobos Keyword added.
|
 5250 pts
 3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K  2500 pts |
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 17:34:34
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Using Object Source Lighting
|
Clockpunk wrote:Here's hoping they provide (somehow) Blackstone Fortress rules for the Black Legion side...
?? They already did? Not sure what you're saying?
|
|
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 17:41:49
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
Oh, I meant the Marines with other (non bolter and knife) weapons, the sorceror, the greater possessed, etc.
Or do you mean they have already, and I just missed it?!
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/08 17:42:22
|
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 18:25:41
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Using Object Source Lighting
|
Clockpunk wrote:
Oh, I meant the Marines with other (non bolter and knife) weapons, the sorceror, the greater possessed, etc.
Or do you mean they have already, and I just missed it?!
Oh, I totally misunderstood that. Based on the scope of the game and the way it looks like they're handling expansions, I'd be somewhat surprised if they did provide rules. I think it's a fair bit more likely that we'll see more niche bits of the setting, and personally I hope that's the case because BSF is already a bit more chaos-centric than I think is particularly interesting.
|
|
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 19:35:31
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Unless we see some big movement after Shadowspear with a lot of new kits, some significant changes to the rules (or additions to them), I'm worried this will be another Chaos release where GW ignores what the fans have been screaming for for years.
Now, the big kicker is that there may be formations, stratagems, and other things in Vigilus 2 that help make Chaos Marines and other things relevant again. I'm not really holding out hope for that, but it's a possibility. They did say that Vigilus 2 will be focused almost entirely on Chaos. We'll see.
|
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 20:05:06
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Morphing Obliterator
The Void
|
spiralingcadaver wrote:Ahriman21 wrote:I disagree with that line of reasoning. You cannot separate the utility of the unit from that of the strat. They exist together and are accessible therefore that cost must be considered in deciding a units validity.
This. I regularly take a heavy bolter or two for hellfire, but don't know if I'd ever consider it at their price without the strat: they're just okay guns without it, and they're so general I'd never bother..
Ah yes. 1 Defiler is good as long as we have CP for the strat. But as soon as you're running multiple deamon engines, then what? You absolutely can separate the utility of a unit from its strats, and you need to because the strat isn't always available. Are you really satisfied with a whole type of unit (daemon engines) that are only worth using because of 1 strat? I would much prefer daemon engines to be a bit better and the strat be a bit worse. Because if it worked that way, then taking larger amounts of them would be viable. In the current situation, the efficiency of taking them drops off fast after the first one. This is bad game design, and you should want better.
|
Always 1 on the crazed roll. |
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 20:39:06
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
Where are you guys buying in the US to get 20-30% off? I would like to order a few boxes. Thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 21:32:14
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Chaplain with Hate to Spare
|
New Zealand Pre-order is up with 360 degree views of several models.
|
5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts |
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 21:40:54
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
sturguard wrote:Where are you guys buying in the US to get 20-30% off? I would like to order a few boxes. Thanks.
Max discount allowed by GW is 15%. You need a local store to get more than that standard.
eBay (US) occasionally has 5/10/15% off coupons and prices are usually 15% off to start.
|
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 21:41:11
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
That's weird. Usually NZ preorders go up a lot later. Not that I'm complaining.
I like the little scenic bits they give you to add to the bases. Rubble and dead chaos space marines. Dark Vengeance did the same thing with dead cultist heads.
|
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 21:42:54
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Committed Chaos Cult Marine
|
sturguard wrote:Where are you guys buying in the US to get 20-30% off? I would like to order a few boxes. Thanks.
The best I know is Miniature Market, but that is usually only 15% off.
|
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 21:49:30
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
|
So back view of the supressor.
|
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 21:52:03
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
|
I kinda picture him flying low, forgetting the ammo belt and then faceplant after beeing Stuck on a streetlamp....
|
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 21:53:50
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Infiltrating Broodlord
Lake County, Illinois
|
Doesn't seem like that would hold all that much ammo, anyway. The belt itself appears to hold way more than that little drum. Might as well just have a little big longer belt and let it drag on the ground.
|
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 21:57:29
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
|
For those interested, it looks like the breakdown spruewise is:
Vanguard Marines
Chaos Marines
|
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 22:10:19
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Chaplain with Hate to Spare
|
Looks like just the Eliminators get an extra head.
|
5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts |
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 22:11:25
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
|
Yeah...I kinda figured that would end up being the case. They made a point about how stuff would be interchangeable, not how there would be extras.
|
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 22:12:45
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
|
I like the bolters for the csm, shame that there are only 3 in there...
|
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
|
|
|
|
2019/03/08 22:23:43
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Well now its just a case of waiting for the full MPK's. Fingers crossed that neither side has to wait as long as the DG did after Dark Imperium.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
