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So, as someone with investments in Night Lords and Red Corsairs...

Vicious Decent actually looked okay for a triple special weapon squad dropping in, until you realize that Slaanesh can buy another round of attacks for the same price. I guess you could buy it, add a mark of khorne, and that?

Without a Trace is not-quite-NL stratagem, again?


The Red Corsairs, a hodgepodge of marines--many of which were shanghaied--that are unified under Huron with AFAIK pretty much nothing else holding them together other than being evil space marines in the same part of space, have excellent command infrastructure?

Huron apparently has a whole bunch of techs to build one fancy combi melta? Like, no mention of Valthex, his named ex-Master of the Forge with a(n ugly old) model? And apparently some relics don't have any story other than people work hard to make a cool weapon? And its major stat improvements are at odds with the RC trait?

I mean, I'll use these new rules, but they're pretty dumb.

I'm pretty stoked to throw an easy 8 CP at my Thousand Sons.

Mandragola wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Now what's the least useless HQ tax to make the "Raiding 17" mandatory MSU battalion?

Can't you take daemon princes and stuff? I don't see why you need to look at it as a tax at all. Chaos HQs are kind of the good thing about the army.

I mean the tactic is that you get to advance and charge. That seems like it would be decent on a daemon prince, or maybe somebody withon a bike or jump pack.

Pretty good idea actually, but I would still reserve the daemon princes to be from Thousand Sons for free 4++ and the extra spell.

I wonder now if this could expand to a red corsairs brigade somehow cheap-ish. With advance + charge, playing 3 units of msu bikers in fast with combi bolters could give some nice dual purpose units that can shoot 16 shots at 24" after moving, and can also advance + charge on a 14" move platform for 70ish points a unit, and block an enemy shooter from being able to shoot next turn... Are there any cheap elites and heavy supports we can use? Single mutilators perhaps?

topaxygouroun i wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Now what's the least useless HQ tax to make the "Raiding 17" mandatory MSU battalion?

Can't you take daemon princes and stuff? I don't see why you need to look at it as a tax at all. Chaos HQs are kind of the good thing about the army.

I mean the tactic is that you get to advance and charge. That seems like it would be decent on a daemon prince, or maybe somebody withon a bike or jump pack.

Pretty good idea actually, but I would still reserve the daemon princes to be from Thousand Sons for free 4++ and the extra spell.

I wonder now if this could expand to a red corsairs brigade somehow cheap-ish. With advance + charge, playing 3 units of msu bikers in fast with combi bolters could give some nice dual purpose units that can shoot 16 shots at 24" after moving, and can also advance + charge on a 14" move platform for 70ish points a unit, and block an enemy shooter from being able to shoot next turn... Are there any cheap elites and heavy supports we can use? Single mutilators perhaps?

Warpsmiths? Cheap mostly, Other than that sorcerers?
DP's certainly would be a more premium version and hike the price to a point of CP normalization. On the otherhand DPs still are such great beeings rulewise that why not.

Red Corsairs is absolutely ridiculous. The fact they keep the renegades tactic of advancing and charging on top of the ridiculous amount of extra cp is just... way too far. Getting 24CP for two battalions and a 3 knight superheavy detachment is gross.

topaxygouroun i wrote:
So you're telling me I have to play Renegades from now on...

8CP battalions. So that's why I would have to buy the new CSM boxes... I see, GW. I see.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with using your existing Legion scheme to represent "new recruits" that recently joined the Legion and then use the Renegades rules for them.

Think of it in the same way as Successor Chapters

-

 cole1114 wrote:
Red Corsairs is absolutely ridiculous. The fact they keep the renegades tactic of advancing and charging on top of the ridiculous amount of extra cp is just... way too far. Getting 24CP for two battalions and a 3 knight superheavy detachment is gross.

That's a lot of CP you'd never use in a list like that...

 Lum wrote:
I love how the Flawless Cloak does the exact same as the Black Templar relic, only gives an additional bonus of +1A.

Well main thing to keep in mind is that you can pay a hefty 3CP to make the Black Templar a Chapter Master. We also don't know what that particular Renegade Chapter does yet whereas we do at least know Black Templars can reroll charges.

Not that it is a justification or anything, but I would like to pretend that GW had the Chapter Master strategem in mind.

a week from now at the GW HQ.

"TED! THE NEW ABADDON MODEL ISN'T SELLING AS WELL IS EXPECTED!"
"Well damnit, why?"
"I dunno but sales of the Huron Blackheart model is up"
"Well guess this legion focus was silly, back to our renegade fixation"

2 Chaos Sorcerers (196)
3 x 5 CSM (195)

A total of 389 pts will net me 8 CP and 4 more casts in my thousand sons list, plus three sacrificial CSM units that can take up a backfield objective or advance + charge something that shoots to block them next turn.

add another battalion of daemons with 30 pink horrors, 2 x 10 brimstones, a changecaster and a changeling for 435 points and that's another 5 CP, 2 more throwaway units, more casts, a 6+++ aura and one big fat block of horrors.

That's 824 points for 4 psykers, 70 bodies and 13 CP. Leaves me with 1175 points to build my Thousand Sons battalion for a total of 21 CP to spend double fighting with my tzaangors.

Yup, seems legit. I dig it.

BrianDavion wrote:
"I dunno but sales of the Huron Blackheart model is up"

As a renegade player since 2006, I never anticipated such a wave of renegade recruits would follow the redux of the CSM line

Is this the point in the thread where we draw conclusions from incomplete information? Ugh, I'm so envious of GW that this is 151 pages.

 Nurglitch wrote:
Is this the point in the thread where we draw conclusions from incomplete information? Ugh, I'm so envious of GW that this is 151 pages.

Sounds long enough. The thing is, when you starve for 10 years, any sort of actual meat instead of bones served to you starts to look like a filet royale.

topaxygouroun i wrote:
2 Chaos Sorcerers (196)
3 x 5 CSM (195)

A total of 389 pts

I think it's 391, I almost made the same mistake by subtracting 11 from 400 instead of 9

 Red Corsair wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
2 Chaos Sorcerers (196)
3 x 5 CSM (195)

A total of 389 pts

I think it's 391, I almost made the same mistake by subtracting 11 from 400 instead of 9

I swear I've had higher education in my life :(

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
2 Chaos Sorcerers (196)
3 x 5 CSM (195)

A total of 389 pts

I think it's 391, I almost made the same mistake by subtracting 11 from 400 instead of 9

I swear I've had higher education in my life :(

Like I said, I almost did the same thing trying to be quick, but I always double check because I am used to making so many errors

Don't sweat it

Dudeface wrote:
Don't forget that corsairs don't get access to veterans of the long war, losing out on the most useful stratagem

What, why?

Also, people saying "JUST WAIT FOR THE WHOLE BOOK" have thus far been proven to be wrong just about every single time when everyone's fears/issues are just proven to be right.

RearAdmiralSnuffles wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Don't forget that corsairs don't get access to veterans of the long war, losing out on the most useful stratagem

What, why?[/quote
Because that's been their rule

Wayniac wrote:
Also, people saying "JUST WAIT FOR THE WHOLE BOOK" have thus far been proven to be wrong just about every single time when everyone's fears/issues are just proven to be right.

I heard that horde armies will be the big losers of the 8th edition; and look where we are now.

Yeah, that’s right: Wait for the whole book; and then some.

Wayniac wrote:
Also, people saying "JUST WAIT FOR THE WHOLE BOOK" have thus far been proven to be wrong just about every single time when everyone's fears/issues are just proven to be right.

......I am annoyed that I never noticed that lol.

Renegades were shown early because they are losing the hype. I haven't been on their FB page but it can not look good. I am guessing only the Renegades got new stuff.

Though its pretty crazy they elevated the Red Corsairs trait which was already probably the best and left the crap the same.

I can not imagine the sales team, marketing team or miniature design team is too happy with the turd the rules team plopped out.

So I guess the new CSM meta will be about using red corsair detachments to provide CPs for slaaneshi obilits in another detachment to double shoot+votlw with?

 Kirasu wrote:

RearAdmiralSnuffles wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Don't forget that corsairs don't get access to veterans of the long war, losing out on the most useful stratagem

What, why?[/quote
Because that's been their rule

That's all the more reason to play them as Raiding 17 rather than an actual detachment with purpose.

I like the exclusive Purge strategem. Get a rid of that annoying tarpit strategy and enables Lords and Daemon Princes to really do their thing.

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
So I guess the new CSM meta will be about using red corsair detachments to provide CPs for slaaneshi obilits in another detachment to double shoot+votlw with?

Nope, i think Oblits will get phased out due to the price hike. Atleast sofar the results we got over at the tactica were very meeh.

Well, the fact that the new renegade traits are so much better than all le the old stuff only increases the disappointment that they didnt rewrite the whole book, or at least the traits/core army rules

stormcraft wrote:
Well, the fact that the new renegade traits are so much better than alle the old stuff only affirms the disappointment that the, didnt rewrite the whole book, or at least the traits/core army rules

<you meant fixed.
Then again maybee they hired the Stuttgart planers
>

Entire problem would be solved if GW would stop allowing soup lists altogether, or better yet, remove the stupid CP and Stratagem systems altogether.

 zend wrote:
Entire problem would be solved if GW would stop allowing soup lists altogether, or better yet, remove the stupid CP and Stratagem systems altogether.

STOP MAKING SENSE!
THAT IS TO RADICAL!!!

Wayniac wrote:
Also, people saying "JUST WAIT FOR THE WHOLE BOOK" have thus far been proven to be wrong just about every single time when everyone's fears/issues are just proven to be right.

k.