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The Chaos Lord from Blackstone Fortress is shown in the new codex and is described as a "Chaos Lord with Thunder Hammer and Plasma Pistol". Probably means that model is getting a separate release as the new generic Chaos Lord model. Additionally, Thunder Hammers are now under the Melee Weapons list for Chaos, meaning a lot of characters and some units (like Chosen) can take them now!

Lord Discordant is well under 200 points, I think he's actually going to be worth it. Big target obviously, but T6 W12 2+ 5++ with access to all the usual defensive buffs isn't bad for the points, and quick maths says he hits harder than a Daemon Prince. Honestly, he seems like a better value Maulerfiend in the HQ slot; competition for both slots is going to be tough though, especially with the Dark Apostle and Master of Possessions being great choices now.

Caederes wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Lord Discordant has a decent statline... for a heavy support model. Unless his offensive stats are comparative to a daemon prince and you can realistically run multiples I don't think he's going to get used.

The Lord Discordant hits like a truck in melee; it seems like he's supposed to push up with Maulerfiends and Venomcrawlers rather than sit back and babysit a daemon engine gunline. He makes 12 attacks on his top bracket as all of his weapons (except his Chainglaive) make bonus attacks in the same manner as Chainswords;
Weapon Skill 2+
4 Strength 6 AP-2 Damage 2 attacks, increasing to Strength 8 on the charge (Impaler Chainglaive)
2 Strength 4 AP-0 Damage 1 attacks (Mechatendrils)
5 Strength 7 AP-2 Damage D3 attacks (Bladed limbs and tail)
1 Strength 8 AP-4 Damage D3 attack that inflicts D3 mortal wounds on a Vehicle as long as the wound roll for the attack is successful when targeting a Vehicle (Techno-virus Injector)

Give him some form of re-rolls to-hit or wound, or slap on Veterans of the Long War, and he'll murder entire squads or your average vehicle pretty easily. He has a 12" move too but no Fly.

Yep, that's the kind of thing I wanted to see. Means I'll have to adjust my build plans to have two Lord Discordants instead of two Venom Crawlers, but I think I'm all right with that, hehe.

I want to like the Lord Discordant, but he'll never survive turn 1...

 MinscS2 wrote:
I want to like the Lord Discordant, but he'll never survive turn 1...

Run multiples He's not that expensive at all and he will absolutely carve up most things he touches.

Budget Terminators with Chainaxes and Combi-Bolters are now a thing and under 30 points per model, might be worth looking at especially with the Bolter Discipline rule in effect?

 MinscS2 wrote:
I want to like the Lord Discordant, but he'll never survive turn 1...

His weapons are strong enough that you should look at him as a daemon engine in his own right, not as a buffing HQ that the rest of your units rely on. If you're taking one, you should take more than one, and right now my issue is not "will he survive" and is instead "why would I take Maulerfiends for my Lord Discordant to buff when I just take more Lords instead".

Have we seen the new Terminator sprue yet?

Caederes wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
I want to like the Lord Discordant, but he'll never survive turn 1...

Run multiples He's not that expensive at all and he will absolutely carve up most things he touches.

Budget Terminators with Chainaxes and Combi-Bolters are now a thing and under 30 points per model, might be worth looking at especially with the Bolter Discipline rule in effect?

Have Terminators dropped in points?

 small_gods wrote:

Caederes wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
I want to like the Lord Discordant, but he'll never survive turn 1...

Run multiples He's not that expensive at all and he will absolutely carve up most things he touches.

Budget Terminators with Chainaxes and Combi-Bolters are now a thing and under 30 points per model, might be worth looking at especially with the Bolter Discipline rule in effect?

Have Terminators dropped in points?

2, still more expensive then loyalist base body but Chainaxe + combi bolter for 3 pts makes them rather cheap now.

Caederes wrote:
The Chaos Lord from Blackstone Fortress is shown in the new codex and is described as a "Chaos Lord with Thunder Hammer and Plasma Pistol". Probably means that model is getting a separate release as the new generic Chaos Lord model. Additionally, Thunder Hammers are now under the Melee Weapons list for Chaos, meaning a lot of characters and some units (like Chosen) can take them now!

This is great news! I really like the concept of a chaos lord with hammer, but not enough to get a BL detachment just to run him.

I wonder if they nerf the cultists to make sure a separate traitorguard release have a strong selling point. (ofcourse fluffwise, it make good sense they dont get legion traits; centuries of specific training tactics dont translate well to traumatised hivescum with robes).

I'm generally not worried about Cultists not getting Legion traits since mine didn't benefit already. Stupid Cultists not being psykers...

 Fayric wrote:

I wonder if they nerf the cultists to make sure a separate traitorguard release have a strong selling point. (ofcourse fluffwise, it make good sense they dont get legion traits; centuries of specific training tactics dont translate well to traumatised hivescum with robes).

Speaking for myself:
I think they're finally realizing that there are issues with regards to having these cheaper options in books and how it affects the 'vision' of the army. It's like how Brood Brothers in GSC work as their own unit now and the Detachment rules have been changed.

Hopefully it's a sign of things to come with Conscripts. Shame that Cultists got a points hike instead of drop though...but I think that would exacerbate the problem further.

 Fayric wrote:

Caederes wrote:
The Chaos Lord from Blackstone Fortress is shown in the new codex and is described as a "Chaos Lord with Thunder Hammer and Plasma Pistol". Probably means that model is getting a separate release as the new generic Chaos Lord model. Additionally, Thunder Hammers are now under the Melee Weapons list for Chaos, meaning a lot of characters and some units (like Chosen) can take them now!

This is great news! I really like the concept of a chaos lord with hammer, but not enough to get a BL detachment just to run him.

I was already planning on gluing the model onto a Disc of Tzeentch and running him as a Chaos Lord with a power maul so I'm definitely happy he'll get a legit thunder hammer instead.

Stolen rundown from facebook:

Stolen from another poster on Chaos forum, heres a rundown of vigilus (poor formatting sorry):

I summarised most of the new Vigilus Ablaze stuff.... Long post incoming:
Chaos temrinators can now take chain axes.
T5 havocs that can move and shoot heavy weps with no pentalty (still 14pts base per model)Havocs can only be taken in squads of 5. No more ablative wounds with bolter guys.
Chaos lords and chosen can take thunder hammers.
Abaddon got no point increase or change to his abilities, just the statline and Drachnyen is now 3dmg flat.
Lord Discordant is 12 wounds, T6, 160pts at its lowest cost with an autocannon. 2+ save, gains a wound back each turn and he can heal himself because hes a warpsmith. 12 inch movement.(edited)
Noctilith Crown (stargate) has 24inch bubble, turns doubles rolls into perils for enemy psykers. 6 inch aura of 5++ (models in 6inches) and psykers reroll psychic tests. For turns 2 and 3 the aura range increases by 3 inches. Has a str 7 pistol at 6 inches.
Skull Altar- increases invulns for khorne daemon characters by 1 (max of 3++) gives +1 attack to khorne daemon infantry within 6, increases a characters locus ability to 12 inches and also applies a negative to enemy psychic tests. It can be summoned apparently.
Master of Executions-3.5 Missile launchers in pts, new Dark Apostle 5 Missile Launchers in pts.
Black Legion relic- Foe cleaver axe +3 str, d3 dmg, +1 to hit against imperium units(edited)
Chosen of the warmaster- turns a terminator champion into a "mini abbaddon" (take that how you will)
Chosen Enforcers Stratagem-1CP- autopass morale at 18inches on a unit of "Bringers of Despair"
Devastation Battery detachment- Obliterators, havocs, lord, warpsmiths. Armour bane ability (as previewed), Relic: Daemons eye, gives a unit in the detachment ignore cover once per turn.
punishing volley Stratagem- 1CP-End of your opponents first movement phase, if you didnt get first turn you get to shoot with a unit from this detachment
Cult of the Damned detachment-apostles, disciples, cultists. Warlord trait- reroll failed charges for detachment units within 6inches of him and you get a flamer book that deals d3 damage. 1cp stratagem that makes cultists immune to morale for the rest of the game if they kill a model in melee. Chorus of the true faith-1CP-gives +1 to prayer roll on apostle if cultists nearby (so you can get auto prayer if hes next to his disciples and you use this strat)
Daemonkin Ritualists detachment- Master of possession, apostles, disciples, greater possessed and possessed units. Warlord trait- 6inch aura of 6's to wound deal an additional mortal wound. Vessels of the neverborn-1CP-+1 str to a detachment unit within 6 of a Master of possession. 1CP- slay a posssessed model to gain d3 mortal wounds back to a character Relic- force staff-end of each fight phase, pick a unit withing 1 inch and they suffer a mortal wound.
god theres so much.....
Soulforged pack detachment- warpsmiths and daemon engine units. Warlord trait- +2 to movement of daemon engines within 6 of the warlord. Relic-special mechatendrils- 1 attack for each enemy within 1 inch of the bearer instead of just +2 attacks. 1CP- doubles wounds characteristic of daemon engine 1CP- Allows a daemon wngine to advance and charge
Host Raptoral- ALL Jump pack dudes. Warlord trait, add 2 to charge rolls made for friendly detachment units within 6 inches of the warlord. 1CP- reroll hits in melee for a unit 1CP- more leadership shenanigans (as previewed) Relic: Jump pack (I think?) on a 4+ any unit that is moved over in the movement or charge phases suffers d3 mortal wounds
Fallen Angels detachment-take as a vanguard detachment for Fallen. You can also take rhinos and chaos sorcerers in the detachment. - 1 CP- -1 to hit a unit -1CP-Ancient Emnity- anti-dark angel strat (no other info) Relic- Force Sword- normal stats but a 6 to wound becomes d6 damage.
Legion of Skulls- Only affects Blood Letters (both HQ and Troops). Warlord Trait- +1A base and +1A more if theres an enemy character within 6inches. Relic- Goreplate- Regains d3 wounds on a 4+ if you slay any enemy models (+2 to the roll if he slew a character) 1CP-Deals mortal wounds to something (details werent clear) 2CP- If you successfully charge a unit, then other units get +2 to their charge rolls on the same target
Mere mortals-Chaos Cultists cannot benefit from legion traits.
Black Legion- No real changes to their rules
1CP- Gives an unaligned unit all the chaos marks for a turn. 3CP- Garuntees control of an objective if a Black Legion unit is in range. Regardless of Obsec. 1CP- If a Black Legion outnumbers an enemy unit in CC, +1 attack in cc 1CP- +1Ld to non-Black Legion units within 6 inches of any Black Legion unit 1 CP- If you have a lord, daemon prince or abaddon as warlord, you can gives a warlord trait to a sorceror and apostle. Extra Relic stratagem. Relics: Chainsword- str user, -3AP, 2dmg, +2A. 6+ to wound deal an additional mortal wound. Helmet- -1 BS, +1AP Angelsbane- combi-bolter as previewed Cloak that gives +1A, +1STR, +1LD for each character you slay (stacking for the rest of the game) Leadership shenanigans trophy- +1LD to friendly BL units, -1 LD to enemy units within 6inches Power Sword- +1 STR, -3AP, 1dmg, +d6 attacks Warlord traits: -Fall back and charge -Take half damage from attacks -+1 STR and on a 4+ a charged unit takes d3 mortal wounds -D3 mortal wounds when you destroy a unit. -5+ to get a command point back when you use a stratagem -DTTFE procs on a 5 on him.
Renegade traits: (Preivewed ones ommitted) The Purge- Reroll to hit rolls against units that have lost 1 or more wounds this turn. The Scourge- Reroll 1s to hit in shooting or fighting + overwatch on 5+ Brazen Beasts- any wound roll of 6+ in melee when they have charged, been charged or HI'd gets -4AP Flawless Host- 6+ to hit in the fight phase gets another attack (stacks with DTTFE)
Renegade Warlord Traits: Red Corsairs-free relic and any time your warlord kills a character they get +1 Attack Crimson Slaughter- -1 Leadership to enemies in 6, increases to -2LD in 9 inches if he kills a character. The Purge-Rerolls 1s t wound and rerolls damage rolls. The Scourged-3inches makes units always fight last (like armor of russ) Brazen Beasts- +2 Str and Attacks every time you kill a character. Flawless Host-Gets 3 extra attacks when you roll a 6+ to hit.
Renegade Stratagems: (previewed ones omitted) Red Corsairs- 3CP-At the end of your movement phase, you can remove a red corsairs chaos space marine unit from the battlefield and place it wholly within 6inches of the edge of the battlefield, more than 9inches form enemy units at full strength. (Tide of traitors for chaos marines....No limit on number of times you can use it) Brazen Beasts-1CP-At the end of the fight phase pick an enemy unit within 1 inch of a brazen beasts daemon engine, roll a d6, on 2-4 it summons d3 mortal wounds, on a 5 or 6 it suffers 3 mortal wounds. Crimson Slaughter- At the start of the enemy shooting phase, when they shoot at one f your units pick a terrain piece and any enemy units within 3 inches of it get -1 to hit till the end of the phase. Flawless Host-1CP-Reroll failed hit rolls for a unit in melee for the phase.
Renegade Relics: Red Corsairs-special combi melta (str 9 meltagun) Crimson Slaughter- Power sword-+1 str, -3AP. If a model is slain in the fight phase then for the rest of the battle, it auto-wounds everything. The Purge- grenade- thrown 8 inches at a point. Roll a d6 for each unit within d6 inches of that points (subtracting 2 vs vehicles). on a 4+ that unit suffers d3 mortal wounds. The Scourged- Any time an enemy psyker manifests a power within 18inches, on a 5+ they suffer a mortal wound. Daemonflesh Plate- 2+ armour save, +1 movement and +1 attack. Flawless host- Cloak that gives +1Attack, increases aura range by 3 inches.

Apologies for the awful formatting....

1CP- doubles wounds characteristic of daemon engine

uhh what

well the Lord Discordant is pretty good if he can have 24 wounds for 1 cp!

Thank you Zid!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

1CP- doubles wounds characteristic of daemon engine

uhh what

well the Lord Discordant is pretty good if he can have 24 wounds for 1 cp!

For degradation purposes not actually doubling wounds.

Oookay, that makes a lot more sense. Man, I really feel like three Lord Discordants is massively better than one with the heavy support daemon engines... something to think about, I suppose.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Oookay, that makes a lot more sense. Man, I really feel like three Lord Discordants is massively better than one with the heavy support daemon engines... something to think about, I suppose.

no doubt. They hit pretty hard, but onky 12 wounds on a 5++ kinda kills it... and onlt T6, so even autocannons are wounding on 3s

T6 doesn't concern me too much, most people I see are picking their anti-tank weapons around the assumption that they're shooting at T8 so T6 really isn't meaningfully different from T7.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
T6 doesn't concern me too much, most people I see are picking their anti-tank weapons around the assumption that they're shooting at T8 so T6 really isn't meaningfully different from T7.

This is true. I face a lot of autocannons, so eh... i love the model though. Ill probably see what people come up with and maybe buy a couple down the road.

T6 means people are less likely to supercharge their plasma.

In fact with black legion warlord trait (half dommage) he can survive a while with his 12 pv.

You wont spam him because he eats your HQ slots, and it looks like Chaos is going to need those on other support models. You could still do it, but it would be in a very specific build and I feel you miss out more then you gain.

1 lord discordant can be a real bitch to deal with given these leaks. You can spend 1 CP to give him every mark, so he can then get all three god specific powers caston him, have an apostle give him a further -1 to hit, have a MOP give him +1 invuln save. He heals himself D3+1 and can have a MOP heal him a further 3 (2 if he uses the discordant for the sacrifice wound) using the multi mark strat he can then use the nurgle strat for a FURTHER D3 regen meaning the dink can regen 10 wounds a turn in theory. All while being -3 to hit if alpha legion, Having a 3+ invuln anda 5+++ (using the multi mark ability and powers )

Thats a lot of singing parts, but even if 25% of that goes down this guy is a trap for anyone silly enough to waste shots on

Still no sign of the plastic sorcerer, or whoever has inherited his old backpack that we saw in the rumour engine yet - I think there's still more chaos characters to come.
And sorceror is the kind of character I could see in the start collecting set too.

So a scourge detachment to live with my thoisand sons might be worth taking! The relic plus overwatch on 5+ means they're not getting smashed in mele easily. Stick a couple of rotor cannons, oblits and the stargate. May be worthwhile!

Should the Emperor Children article be out today?

Renegade Stratagems: (previewed ones omitted) Red Corsairs- 3CP-At the end of your movement phase, you can remove a red corsairs chaos space marine unit from the battlefield and place it wholly within 6inches of the edge of the battlefield, more than 9inches form enemy units at full strength. (Tide of traitors for chaos marines....No limit on number of times you can use it)

sorry WHAT?!

Red Corsairs- 3CP-At the end of your movement phase, you can remove a red corsairs chaos space marine unit from the battlefield and place it wholly within 6inches of the edge of the battlefield, more than 9inches form enemy units at full strength. (Tide of traitors for chaos marines....No limit on number of times you can use it)

Blobs of corsairs tiding? welll that is quite nice boost to regular CSM

 Latro_ wrote:

Renegade Stratagems: (previewed ones omitted) Red Corsairs- 3CP-At the end of your movement phase, you can remove a red corsairs chaos space marine unit from the battlefield and place it wholly within 6inches of the edge of the battlefield, more than 9inches form enemy units at full strength. (Tide of traitors for chaos marines....No limit on number of times you can use it)

sorry WHAT?!

Yes, I just saw the video. This is legit. But it does cost 3 cp. Red Corsairs are .... gonna be fun.

 Latro_ wrote:

Renegade Stratagems: (previewed ones omitted) Red Corsairs- 3CP-At the end of your movement phase, you can remove a red corsairs chaos space marine unit from the battlefield and place it wholly within 6inches of the edge of the battlefield, more than 9inches form enemy units at full strength. (Tide of traitors for chaos marines....No limit on number of times you can use it)

sorry WHAT?!

Indeed, Red Corsairs confirmed Legion strength boys,


OVERRUN THEM!

yea costs 3cp... if only they had a way to gets lots of CP....

this is basically codex: red corsairs at this point