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 Rayvon wrote:

 notprop wrote:
I got a bunch of LotR models for chrimbo, no issues withthe resin, ditto the Cawdor heads I got last week.

I never got a bad FC model when it was originally rolled out either.

I have had over a hundred different FC packs since they came out and only a handful had to be returned, I never got all the hate personally.

I think that the manufacturing problems occurred in entire lots - so a particular batch might be riddled with imperfections through the entire lot, while other batches came off the line with few to zero problems.

When 3/4 of the miniatures a shop got were riddled with bubbles and missing details, there was a reason for complaint - the Chaos terminators being a particular victim (long skinny bits like lightning claws with lots of greebly details). Not exaggerating the percentage of garbage, I'm afraid - the store took its money back and dropped GW entirely, after the customer service monkey gave the store owner a hassle.

But then another shop might get an entire shipment with no defects - leading the customers from the two stores in complete disagreement, but each being entirely truthful.

I suspect part of it was poor to nonexistent quality checking - they wanted those models out the door in a hurry.

Poor training is another likely culprit.

Add in a price increase while switching to a less expensive medium as a recipe for instant outrage.

The Auld Grump

The first Finecast model I got was the anniversary Crimson Fists captain, and it was riddled with holes and a horrible mould slip. The replacement still had a few holes, but they were easily filled. Since then, the few resin models I've got have been fine. Some trimming of tabs and filling of holes, but less work than their metal modlere (Oh gods, the "hairs" on the metal Ratlings!).

Finecast is still crap, and has only gotten slightly better in the last few years.

My most recent experience with it was last year; bought a chaos model off e-bay not realizing it was resin, not plastic. New "in box", had bubbles, warped weapons, soft details, excessive flash and superglue wouldn't take.

Worst finecast model I've ever had is my old FC Tyranid Hive Lord. I about threw it away trying to put it together, and binned it the day the plasic kit came out and I was able to replace it.

I should also mention I hate FC so much all of my Eldar aspect warriors are metal and will remain so until GW makes PLASTIC replacements.

The problem with GW resin is that it lacks the rigidity required for a lot of their models. Even now that they've fixed the quality control issues there are still problems with things like swords, staffs or banner poles being bent and warped. I think the problem is the material isn't fit for purpose.

Got witch king, only issue is only few parts to assemble. Not dozens like plastic models the horror!

My experience of finecast of late is a mixed bag.

I got a Fabius Bile who was almost perfect, a Snikrot who was only awful in a few places and I've painted Eisenhorn twice and Canoness Veridyan three times - all of which ranged from pretty terrible to absolutely terrible.

So in short I think its gotten better but more often than not you still get issues. It remains my least favourite material to paint up for sure.

I just picked up a T'au Firesight Marksman and Sniper Drones and they're a mess. They're really warped and and covered in flash. Sure, I can fix the problems but it's not worth the time, especially at ~$50 for the kit. No more resin for me.

hyperfocal wrote:
I just picked up a T'au Firesight Marksman and Sniper Drones and they're a mess. They're really warped and and covered in flash. Sure, I can fix the problems but it's not worth the time, especially at ~$50 for the kit. No more resin for me.

this is partly the problem, if this stuff was a lot cheaper the trouble to sort it could be worth it, but its rubbish at a "premium" price which is the real rub

that and heck I've cast stuff with less bubbles, and I'm using pure gravity pours, no vac or pressure chambers etc

I had that limited edition SoB Cannoness, and she was perfectly fine, no issues.

I've only ever heard bad things from everyone else, however.

Just got a lord commissar with no imperfections at all.

When buying a Lhamean from GW's website a couple of months I only got an acceptable one on the third attempt. First two had details like the bone in her hair and the poison drops on the sword completely missing, among other things. One had a thicker detail-destroying line of resin down the entire front-centre of the mini too. All three had bent swords and scabbards, but that was easier to fix than the other issues.

Last time I buy Finecast. I personally haven't had any problems with Forge World's resin minis lately, bought most of their Necromunda stuff and it's all been superb.

 Irkjoe wrote:
I think that the only reason finecast is soft is because the centrifuge casting puts a lot of micro air bubbles in the resin. Forge World has adopted the method and I can't tell the difference at all. The color close to regular FW but every other aspect is identical to finecast(riddled with all the same issues).

Sorry but this needs to be called out on.

1. Centrifugal casting (aka rotocasting) is NOT the process used to cast miniatures.
2. centrifugal acsting is NOT used in forgeworld casting.
3. FW resin is NOT the same resin used in finecast. It's just different substance/mixture/ratio, period.
4. centrifuge casting DOES NOT cause air bubbles or the resin to become 'softer' . Air bubbles are result of chemical reaction between the two compounds (whose byproduct are heat & gaseous fumes) when mixed, and through small air bubbles captured while the mixture is being mixed.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
When 3/4 of the miniatures a shop got were riddled with bubbles and missing details, there was a reason for complaint - the Chaos terminators being a particular victim (long skinny bits like lightning claws with lots of greebly details). Not exaggerating the percentage of garbage, I'm afraid - the store took its money back and dropped GW entirely, after the customer service monkey gave the store owner a hassle.

I'm afraid this is not how after services are handled by GW. The individual stores can issue refunds for whatever reason they seem fit, but as per trade account agreement, they are not REQUIRED to issue refund for defective products. Instead, the store owners are advised to tell the customer they need to contact GW directly to handle manufacturer's defects.

This store most likely issued refund without reading the trade account agreement in full, complained to GW, got into a fight, and decided to drop the product as he was no longer able to get his money back on the refunds he/she has already issued.

 skchsan wrote:

 Irkjoe wrote:
I think that the only reason finecast is soft is because the centrifuge casting puts a lot of micro air bubbles in the resin. Forge World has adopted the method and I can't tell the difference at all. The color close to regular FW but every other aspect is identical to finecast(riddled with all the same issues).

Sorry but this needs to be called out on.

1. Centrifugal casting (aka rotocasting) is NOT the process used to cast miniatures.
2. centrifugal acsting is NOT used in forgeworld casting.
3. FW resin is NOT the same resin used in finecast. It's just different substance/mixture/ratio, period.
4. centrifuge casting DOES NOT cause air bubbles or the resin to become 'softer' . Air bubbles are result of chemical reaction between the two compounds (whose byproduct are heat & gaseous fumes) when mixed, and through small air bubbles captured while the mixture is being mixed.

Ok, was under the impression that finecast was made this way. The point I was making is that FW is casting some miniatures using the same method as GW finecast and they're just as bad.

GW is doing an "out with a whimper" phase-out of finecast after the absolute PR nightmare that was its attempt at a release.

It's still terrible. it's been terrible since release.

 Irkjoe wrote:

 skchsan wrote:

 Irkjoe wrote:
I think that the only reason finecast is soft is because the centrifuge casting puts a lot of micro air bubbles in the resin. Forge World has adopted the method and I can't tell the difference at all. The color close to regular FW but every other aspect is identical to finecast(riddled with all the same issues).

Sorry but this needs to be called out on.

1. Centrifugal casting (aka rotocasting) is NOT the process used to cast miniatures.
2. centrifugal acsting is NOT used in forgeworld casting.
3. FW resin is NOT the same resin used in finecast. It's just different substance/mixture/ratio, period.
4. centrifuge casting DOES NOT cause air bubbles or the resin to become 'softer' . Air bubbles are result of chemical reaction between the two compounds (whose byproduct are heat & gaseous fumes) when mixed, and through small air bubbles captured while the mixture is being mixed.

Ok, was under the impression that finecast was made this way. The point I was making is that FW is casting some miniatures using the same method as GW finecast and they're just as bad.

Indeed both products are made using the same method. I'd presume it's the differences in level of mastery of working with resin that's causing the worse quality.

In resin casting, there are few main causes for miscasts:
1. The resin is 'dumped' in instead of 'rolled' in. Resin needs to poured into the mold slowly from one side and allowed to 'seep in' so that air is pushed out as resin fills the cavities.
2. The mold is viced too tight/loose. Because in most applications the mold used for resin casting is made of varying types of silicon/semi solids, they must be fitted together and viced (sandwiched) between plates to prevent slippages and distension of the mold. When the mold is viced too tight or too lose, it creates shifting of the cavities which causes miscasts.
3. Improper use/reliance on the vacuum chamber. As explained above, the air bubbles needs to be tackled from pouring phase. There are limits to how much a vacuum chamber can improve your casts, and over-reliance on the vacuum chamber (i.e. allowing too much air to be trapped inside the mold, expecting the vacuum chamber to draw it all out) will cause miscasts.

Other causes include, but not limited to:
-improper mixing of the two parts
-viscosity of the resin
-bad mold
-insufficient resin poured into the mold

 skchsan wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
When 3/4 of the miniatures a shop got were riddled with bubbles and missing details, there was a reason for complaint - the Chaos terminators being a particular victim (long skinny bits like lightning claws with lots of greebly details). Not exaggerating the percentage of garbage, I'm afraid - the store took its money back and dropped GW entirely, after the customer service monkey gave the store owner a hassle.

I'm afraid this is not how after services are handled by GW. The individual stores can issue refunds for whatever reason they seem fit, but as per trade account agreement, they are not REQUIRED to issue refund for defective products. Instead, the store owners are advised to tell the customer they need to contact GW directly to handle manufacturer's defects.

This store most likely issued refund without reading the trade account agreement in full, complained to GW, got into a fight, and decided to drop the product as he was no longer able to get his money back on the refunds he/she has already issued.

While the customer service monkey was a nuisance, GW did give the refund - when the shop threatened a lawsuit.

Contrary to what GW may think or hope that having a contract removes needing to care, a lawsuit for knowing distributing faulty product is an option - even when the contract reads otherwise.

And in the initial release of FindCrap a lot of stores were making that point painfully obvious.

He did not sell the product. He inspected the product upon receipt, and promptly called GW.

He did not ask for replacement of the product - which is what the CS monkey was striving for.

And he did get the refund - returning the entire shipment, not just the flawed merchandise.

But having to threaten a lawsuit left a sour taste, and he dropped GW like a glitter covered turd.

That store was nowhere near unique - and GW - to their credit - did reimburse most or all of them for the incredibly bad rollout of what was supposed to be their premier products.

Had they not returned the moneys, it is very likely that they would have been looking at a class action suit - and another PR disaster at a time when PR disasters were destroying the brand. (When even the pages of The Economist were singling out GW for negative attention.)

Most stores likely opted for replacement rather than refund - but there are enough exceptions that GW ducked, rather than trying to fight.

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

Spoiler:

 skchsan wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
When 3/4 of the miniatures a shop got were riddled with bubbles and missing details, there was a reason for complaint - the Chaos terminators being a particular victim (long skinny bits like lightning claws with lots of greebly details). Not exaggerating the percentage of garbage, I'm afraid - the store took its money back and dropped GW entirely, after the customer service monkey gave the store owner a hassle.

I'm afraid this is not how after services are handled by GW. The individual stores can issue refunds for whatever reason they seem fit, but as per trade account agreement, they are not REQUIRED to issue refund for defective products. Instead, the store owners are advised to tell the customer they need to contact GW directly to handle manufacturer's defects.

This store most likely issued refund without reading the trade account agreement in full, complained to GW, got into a fight, and decided to drop the product as he was no longer able to get his money back on the refunds he/she has already issued.

While the customer service monkey was a nuisance, GW did give the refund - when the shop threatened a lawsuit.

Contrary to what GW may think or hope that having a contract removes needing to care, a lawsuit for knowing distributing faulty product is an option - even when the contract reads otherwise.

And in the initial release of FindCrap a lot of stores were making that point painfully obvious.

He did not sell the product. He inspected the product upon receipt, and promptly called GW.

He did not ask for replacement of the product - which is what the CS monkey was striving for.

And he did get the refund - returning the entire shipment, not just the flawed merchandise.

But having to threaten a lawsuit left a sour taste, and he dropped GW like a glitter covered turd.

That store was nowhere near unique - and GW - to their credit - did reimburse most or all of them for the incredibly bad rollout of what was supposed to be their premier products.

Had they not returned the moneys, it is very likely that they would have been looking at a class action suit - and another PR disaster at a time when PR disasters were destroying the brand. (When even the pages of The Economist were singling out GW for negative attention.)

Most stores likely opted for replacement rather than refund - but there are enough exceptions that GW ducked, rather than trying to fight.

The Auld Grump

Something similar occurred at the hobby shop down here when finecast first came out - while I don’t know the specifics, the owners did tell me that they had enough complaints about returned finecast products that they demanded a refund on their FC stock, and after fighting with the GW rep, they dumped GW entirely.

See for yourself.

First and only resin model directly from GW. Have used FW resin over the years and that product has far fewer escape channels.



Resin had no bubble or hollows and was strong and not rubbery. However the thinner portions were a little brittle.

Cheers,

CB

Recently worked through 2 packs of Eldar Rangers and 1 pack of Dark reapers...and I'm not buying any more GW resin models because its just not worth it in the amount of hours i had to put in to fix the models.

My thumb is scarred by the exacto cuts while trying to scrape out detail and shave off blobs of resin.

Terrible experience. bent barrels, brittle as hell scopes breaking off when trying to remove mold lines... details covered by blobs of resin, not sure which bits are detail which bits are resin blobs...The two bits of plated armor hanging from waist of the dark reapers was basically one solid blob .

GW prime motivator is money. Somebody should show them OOP metal striking scorpions selling for £50 on e-bay(if you can actually get some!) just so people dont have to deal with their garbage casts.

I picked up some resin GW models for WHFB and generally they were fine. Not any worse than Forge World models imo. Lots of gates and it took some careful knife-work to cut that all away but in the end it looks acceptable.

BAD. REALLY BAD. Try not to use it ever.

I bought Severina the other day and it is my first fine cast model. Not sure how the finecast was when introduced, but other than the flexibility of the resin, the new formula was no harder to work with than the FW stuff. I would rather use FW resin than finecast and then lastly metal.

Got the same as my first finecast, Severina Raine, and I wasn't impressed - bent sabre, bent scabbard, and some bubble pits around the collar. I think I'm just unlucky because everyone else seems pleasantly surprised with theirs, though.

I think the latest batch is good but not the best, I would have preferred metal

When I bought my LoTD I did take a gamble and the quality upon receiving them was good.
There where some imperfections some of the pouches/ grenades were bubbled/ miscast but they are not really visible when assembled, then there were pipes that are half detailed and half flat.

I also have the 2012 GD BA powerfist captain which was packaged as finecast,
Most of the model is good just a couple of bubbles needing filling on the powerfist and again a couple of pipes that needed reshaping.