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It's 40k's Imperium: their cybernetics have cybernetics.

 Sim-Life wrote:
While I don't care about the plugs because Imma scrape them off but just to add fuel to the fire:

The Imperium basically considers the human form holy yes? Hence all the "burn the mutant" wherin "mutant" could be someone with a particularly large wart or an unfortunate birthmark.

Why would the MOST holy and devout of the Emperor's followers mar their bodies, which are considered holy, with cybernetics?

Mutations are seen as a sign of chaos and corruption. Bionics aren’t.

 Crimson wrote:
It being able to function at practical combat speed without some sort of a neural interface is implausible. Real life powered exoskeleton prototypes which do not rely on electrodes use advanced computers and sensors at each joint, and are still impractically slow.

Does gaining the memory of someone by eating them sounds plausible in real life? Or making giant robots as tall as warlord titans? Or warp travel, with associated time travel and other shenenigan? Or …

Bionics are not seen as an improvement on one’s natural body, morally speaking, from what I have read over the years, outside of cultures heavily beholden to the Cult Mechanicus. By contrast, the sacred nature of the natural human form is well established as a central tenant of the Imperial faith. Sim-Life raises a very valid point.

There is simply no merit to the argument that PA is implausible without neural interface. First, since when is 40k technology plausible. Second, it has been established for decades that PA in 40k does not requires neural interface.

 Manchu wrote:
Second, it has been established for decades that PA in 40k does not requires neural interface.

And now it has been changed to make more sense. The end.

It may not even be a proper neural interface. The ports connect the fibre bundles of the suit to electrodes sited deep in the muscles... a crude and invasive but “very Imperium” way to actuate the suit.

There’s no merit to the idea that this isn’t plausible and/or fits the setting. There’s just a differing opinion on whether you like that it’s now the new norm.

 Sim-Life wrote:
While I don't care about the plugs because Imma scrape them off but just to add fuel to the fire:

The Imperium basically considers the human form holy yes? Hence all the "burn the mutant" wherin "mutant" could be someone with a particularly large wart or an unfortunate birthmark.

Why would the MOST holy and devout of the Emperor's followers mar their bodies, which are considered holy, with cybernetics?

I refer you to the other empire in the Imperium who assuredly does NOT consider the human form holy nor inviolate. Granted, the Mechanicus are completely at odds with the Ecclesiarchy in most things, but it's certainly not a universal view that "natural" is "perfect".

Even if we go with the idea that the human form is considered "ideal/holy" by the Ecclesiarchy, much like with the Astartes the loss (or more correctly, sacrifice) of that "ideal" form so that they may better serve the Emperor in guarding His domain is pretty on-brand. Service in the Emperor's name demands sacrifice, so against that backdrop I don't see why they wouldn't undergo such modifications if it would enable them to bring greater destruction to His enemies.

ERJAK wrote:

There's no way in hell that SoB armor wouldn't just be ramshackle (but pretty) modifications to Space Marine power armor marks. This is 40k, duct tape mods are literally a religion.

From the older fluff, SIsters armour was a completely separate thing.


But yes, however it worked previously, now it clearly uses some sort of interface ports. I suspect that the reason for this change is that someone in the studio looked at the WIP Repentia sculpts and realised that there was nothing other than the chainswords that made them look like scifi models...

My only real issue with it is that the ports as modeled look impractically large, like they would interfere with the movement of the muscles and skin.

To clarify, the retcon is NOT that PA in 40k requires a neural interface. This was already addressed above.

The apparent retcon is that (at least some) Sisters have implants to interface with their armor.

Again, if that’s something a few elite individuals undergo, fine. If it is the norm, that doesn’t fit with the core theme of Adeptus Soroitas.

I think having your body surgically altered to better serve the Emperor does fit with the SoB ‘core theme’.

 Manchu wrote:
Bionics are not seen as an improvement on one’s natural body, morally speaking, from what I have read over the years, outside of cultures heavily beholden to the Cult Mechanicus. By contrast, the sacred nature of the natural human form is well established as a central tenant of the Imperial faith. Sim-Life raises a very valid point.

The novel Blind, part of the Shira Calpurnia series, has an interesting bit of fluff at the end that is an excerpt from an Inquisitor's monograph titled A Declaration of the Polarity of Human Disposition, distributed by both the Ministorum and Munitorum. It states:

"However, the purely physical body may be made the subject of human works, built on and shaped by the human mind. We know that the augmentic and the flesh-graft fall within that mandate: we can see such works upon the bodies of the Adeptus back through hundreds of generations and can therefore infer rightness by tradition."

 JohnnyHell wrote:
It may not even be a proper neural interface. The ports connect the fibre bundles of the suit to electrodes sited deep in the muscles... a crude and invasive but “very Imperium” way to actuate the suit.

There’s no merit to the idea that this isn’t plausible and/or fits the setting. There’s just a differing opinion on whether you like that it’s now the new norm.

Inquisitor Amberley Vail wears a skin tight bodyglove that is

... festooned with sockets and truncated power cables. It just had to be the dermal interface layer for her power armour.

It seems the new lore is that SOB bypass this with cyberplugs - I am not against this - in my head I might have it that not all Orders have the same methods, so soe might use similar to Inquisitor Vail whilst others may have plug and play.

 ImAGeek wrote:
I think having your body surgically altered to better serve the Emperor does fit with the SoB ‘core theme’.

That would be the Space Marine core theme.

Manchu, you’d probably best accept the change as it has been changed. Or stop telling everyone it’s wrong, because it now isn’t wrong. :shrug:

 Manchu wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
I think having your body surgically altered to better serve the Emperor does fit with the SoB ‘core theme’.

That would be the Space Marine core theme.

That would be having your body completely and utterly genetically and surgically changed and your mind absolutely conditioned to serve the Emperor.

This whole weirdo “come along on the journey” style drip drop release is premised on fan feedback.

Plus we don’t know exactly what these plugs mean yet. Per the description above, seems like interface implants are not actually required for Sororitas to use their PA.

Ok, I think of PA like this:

Level 1: Simple civilian type. Used for heavy loads and hazardous environments. Slow and clunky, because it does only move based on tye wearer’s physical movement. Not suitable for combat.

Level 2: Basic combat type. For occational users, for example Inquisitors. Uses an advanced body glove interface to reduce latency and increase precision of movement.

Level 3: Advanced combat type. For continuous use by highly trained specialists. Uses neural implants on the limbs for high performance. Ref. the new Repentia models.

Level 4: Adeptus Astartes type. The highest grade, made for extreme use and highly adapted to the unique Astartes physique. In addition to the neural ports on the limbs (ref. Magnus the Red), it also requires the Black Carapace, which is a highly specialized artificial organ which also serve multiple other purposes, and is exclusively used by the Adeptus Astartes.

 insaniak wrote:
I suspect that the reason for this change is that someone in the studio looked at the WIP Repentia sculpts and realised that there was nothing other than the chainswords that made them look like scifi models

I think you’re almost right. i bet the issue is, they wanted to make it clear that these are Sororitas who would otherwise be wearing PA. The older models made this clear by emphasizing their nakedness, a negative (in the sense of something being missing) feature. The revised concept requires some positive (in the sense of something be present) detail implying the lack of armor.

 Oguhmek wrote:
Ok, I think of PA like this:

Level 1: Simple civilian type. Used for heavy loads and hazardous environments. Slow and clunky, because it does only move based on tye wearer’s physical movement. Not suitable for combat.

Level 2: Basic combat type. For occational users, for example Inquisitors. Uses an advanced body glove interface to reduce latency and increase precision of movement.

Level 3: Advanced combat type. For continuous use by highly trained specialists. Uses neural implants on the limbs for high performance. Ref. the new Repentia models.

Level 4: Adeptus Astartes type. The highest grade, made for extreme use and highly adapted to the unique Astartes physique. In addition to the neural ports on the limbs (ref. Magnus the Red), it also requires the Black Carapace, which is a highly specialized artificial organ which also serve multiple other purposes, and is exclusively used by the Adeptus Astartes.

Yep, makes sense to me.

 Oguhmek wrote:
Ok, I think of PA like this:

Level 1: Simple civilian type. Used for heavy loads and hazardous environments. Slow and clunky, because it does only move based on tye wearer’s physical movement. Not suitable for combat.

Level 2: Basic combat type. For occational users, for example Inquisitors. Uses an advanced body glove interface to reduce latency and increase precision of movement.

Level 3: Advanced combat type. For continuous use by highly trained specialists. Uses neural implants on the limbs for high performance. Ref. the new Repentia models.

Level 4: Adeptus Astartes type. The highest grade, made for extreme use and highly adapted to the unique Astartes physique. In addition to the neural ports on the limbs (ref. Magnus the Red), it also requires the Black Carapace, which is a highly specialized artificial organ which also serve multiple other purposes, and is exclusively used by the Adeptus Astartes.

Thats a great summary - consider it exalted (and nicked)

I think the most controversial aspect of the new sculpts is that apparently neither the sculptors nor the studio team know the difference between the raised scar tissue of a brand and a depressed skull fracture.

Personally I’ve never been a fan of digital sculpts in general, they always look chunky and boxy to me but thats the new normal.

i'd flip around 2 and 3

so

Level 2 combat type, easy to maintain neural interphases via physical plugs & wiring, robust, suitable for extended combat operations eg new repentia

level 3 combat type, expensive, harder to maintain, less suitable for extended combat operations, but more comfortable, more adaptable to variant equipment design, form fitting body glove, used by the inquisition, the rich/powerful etc

Prestor Jon wrote:
I think the most controversial aspect of the new sculpts is that apparently neither the sculptors nor the studio team know the difference between the raised scar tissue of a brand and a depressed skull fracture.

Personally I’ve never been a fan of digital sculpts in general, they always look chunky and boxy to me but thats the new normal.

Preach. Even the best CAD sculpts I've seen (and there have been some nice ones released recently) would look so much better with about a 10% reduction in scale.
I am also quite surprised that there's quite so much discussion and vitriol over a minor detail like body plugs, when the models are so out of character in pretty much every other way; the hideous brand, the complete lack of gothic iconography, the weird trainers + shorts combo. I like the muscled look, but that's literally the only good bit.

 Manchu wrote:
Bionics are not seen as an improvement on one’s natural body, morally speaking, from what I have read over the years, outside of cultures heavily beholden to the Cult Mechanicus. By contrast, the sacred nature of the natural human form is well established as a central tenant of the Imperial faith. Sim-Life raises a very valid point.

There is simply no merit to the argument that PA is implausible without neural interface. First, since when is 40k technology plausible. Second, it has been established for decades that PA in 40k does not requires neural interface.

There's no merit to any of this because it's stupid. They use plugs, the guys who make the universe say they use plugs.

If you don't like the plugs, go write waifu fanfics about it.

You think it’s all stupid. Great. Why bother to post about it then?

 Dysartes wrote:

The image that the lore about Sisters and Inquisitors wearing power armour has always been a funny one to me. Without any sort of interface then they’d probably be exerting a lot of effort trying to get it to move. Slow and draggy movements.

Or some degree of lag, at the very least, as the artificial muscle fibres (or whatever the tech is) have to respond to your body actually moving, as opposed to the electrical signal sent to your muscles to make you move.

It might only be a matter of milliseconds, but that can be vital in combat.

So here's what bugs me about Repentia. In the old games nobody used them supposedly. I say supposedly because at my last 2 game store i've gone to i haven't really seen Sisters players at all and my knowledge comes mostly from online. So are they gonna get a boost to make them not suck? Maybe FnP, Invunerable saves, -1 to be hit or something. I mean the sculpt can be beautiful but if the model sucks in-game then a lot of people won't buy it. At that point you'd have to buy maybe one set and put it on your back shelf to collect dust like my Dark Eldar Hellions.

The 2nd thing i'd like to tackle is where are all the new units? It's been how many years since Sisters got any new models and re-sculpts are nice and all but what about monsters, vehicles, a monstrous vehicle hybrid, more infantry of various types (most likely where they should go imo), flyers, etc. I think Sisters should focus more on the infantry personally but they should get new ones. Anyway even if they don't my hope is for some very cool looking jump jet infantry. Perhaps some scout vehicles or infantry. I dunno there's a lot of places they could and probably should go.

I think folks in the thread who like the sockets and can't stand the idea that someone on the internet disagrees with them need to get over it and accept that the sockets just won't be a universally popular retcon and that they're in for years worth of jokes and snarky comments about them. Alternately, folks like myself who don't like the sockets need to accept that they're here to stay for the forseeable future (at least for a decade until the nuns with guns get their next real codex) and that our only option to avoid them involves a hobby knife, small file, and putty.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
So here's what bugs me about Repentia. In the old games nobody used them supposedly.

They've had a rocky road. Currently they are reliant on support characters and other buffs to still be worse than arco-flagellants against most things (someone on facebook noted if a full sized repentia squad charged an un-upgraded 10 man tactical squad ... the tacs were actually the slight statistical favourites to win).

The problem is at least somewhat model-related as a similar unit (the 3e zealots) fielded a lot of cheap lightly armed bodies around a handful of really big hitting eviscerators - but no model no rules for the all-eviserator repentia, and between more guns in the game and shrinking eviscerators that might not work for them any more anyway.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
The 2nd thing i'd like to tackle is where are all the new units? It's been how many years since Sisters got any new models...

The last new unit for the sisters was the repentia in 2004*. Technically they had them before but as an entirely different kind of single model unit upgrade. There was the avenging angel unit but that was dawn of war only.
(*unless you count celestines gemini)

GW are keeping anything new close to their chests though, not even including legacy wargear options like jump packs or squad eviscerators in the beta dex.

It makes sense that we won't see amy new units if they exist because they won't want 3rd party manufacturers releasing models for them before they do.

If GW show off sisters in terminator armor or something you can be 100% sure companies like Raging Heroes would start the process of making alt sculpts for them asap and likely get them out around the same time.