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 Crimson wrote:
It would be like arguing that a guardsman with a bionic eye is some sort of a super soldier and them having that destroys the idea that the guard are just normal people.

You *do* realize that is actually a thing in lore, right?

Along with a bakers dozen other ways to do... pretty much exactly that. Gland Warriors, the Afriel Strain, the geneforged supermen from Red and Black, beastmen (yes, loyalist ones are Guard) so there's not much to destroy about them being exclusively normal humans.

 Manchu wrote:
Am I alone in thinking the shoes are neat?

Not necessarily - though I would like to see a studio paint of them, to get an idea what sort of material they're meant to be. However, they don't look that dissimilar to the existing ones, so I'm not against them.

The hot new shoe this Xmas....the Nike Air Repentia! or more like simple Eclessiarchy Air Cortez.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Can sometime explain the pun to me? Keep in mind I'm not very bright, also that English isn't my native tongue.

"Retroactive continuity," shortened to "retcon," is when the story is changed so otherwise inconsistent material is made consistent. Sometimes it can be a narrative excuse ("here's some information the reader didn't know: it makes sense now, and always did!"); sometimes it's less subtle and is an overt and can just be the author saying they're ignoring or changing a detail to fit their current version of the story.

Most common (and I think originated from?) superhero comics, where you've got sprawling universes and things start to contradict each other.

They're playing with the idea of redesigning the SoB/world details.

Racerguy180 wrote:
The hot new shoe this Xmas....the Nike Air Repentia! or more like simple Eclessiarchy Air Cortez.

Second that.

Here is an idea for a diorama:

Exchange the chainsword with a tennis racket and glue two girls on a tennis court which happens to be the surface of a navy vessel.
Match will feature Navratilova vs. Hinges. The latter will be modeled with a screaming head to visualize her infamous moaning during her contests. Referee will be a Dominatrix and servo skulls will service as ball boys.

 EnTyme wrote:
Also, I hesitate to continue this argument, but I will likely have to have my knee replaced in the next year or so (severe cartilage damage from sports). Will you no long consider me a physically normal person since will require a titanium prosthetic to walk?

As mentioned above, prostheses are different. Let’s use your metaphor but a[ply it more accurately: imagine that your knees are perfectly healthy but in order to get a certain job you would have to voluntarily replace them with titanium enhancements. Would you call that a job for ordinary people?

All depends on the level of our civilization. In a world like Shadowrun, that'd be a perfectly normal job. In fact you'd be lucky to have a corporation actually pay for such a thing-- they'd probably expect you to foot the bill.

 Manchu wrote:
As mentioned above, prostheses are different. Let’s use your metaphor but a[ply it more accurately: imagine that your knees are perfectly healthy but in order to get a certain job you would have to voluntarily replace them with titanium enhancements. Would you call that a job for ordinary people?

In the Imperium, yes.

The main conceit of the cyberpunk genre is the horror/irony of replacing healthy limbs with artificial parts to compete in a dystopian ultra-capitalist society. There might be room for that theme in 40k (hello Necromunda) but it doesn’t apply to the topic at hand.

And the question above is rhetorical. A job that requires someone to be surgically enhanced beyond the capacity of the normal human physique is by definition NOT a job for physically normal people.

 Manchu wrote:
The main conceit of the cyberpunk genre is the horror/irony of replacing healthy limbs with artificial parts to compete in a dystopian ultra-capitalist society. There might be room for that theme in 40k (hello Necromunda) but it doesn’t apply to the topic at hand.

And the question above is rhetorical. A job that requires someone to be surgically enhanced beyond the capacity of the normal human physique is by definition NOT a job for physically normal people.

'Normal' is a social construct. If you want to model certain type of jewellery, you need to have piercings. Is modelling earrings not a job for physically normal people?

All that is meant by normal in this case is not genetically, cybernetically, surgically, magically, etc, altered. Never before has there been any indication that Sisters required any alteration or enhancement of any kind to use their armor.

No one here has any problem with a Sister who loses an eye in combat getting a replacement cybernetic eye.

 Manchu wrote:
All that is meant by normal in this case is not genetically, cybernetically, surgically, magically, etc, altered. Never before has there been any indication that Sisters required any alteration or enhancement of any kind to use their armor.

No one here has any problem with a Sister who loses an eye in combat getting a replacement cybernetic eye.

But getting a piercing is altering your body, now what?

Thing is, surgically altering oneself to be better in you job is so common in the Imperium that this is insignificant. Have you looked at the art? It is full of scribes who have their hands replaced with pens or printers etc. Those plugs are a super minor thing in a society like that, just like getting ones ears pierced in order to model earrings would be in ours.

I think you’re getting hung up on the word “normal” — again, we’re just talking about being unenhanced.

 Manchu wrote:
I think you’re getting hung up on the word “normal” — again, we’re just talking about being unenhanced.

I just don't think the sisters need to have more strident standards for their normalness or unenchantedness than the people in the setting in general.

I think I see what you mean but consider this: We’re not really talking about some Administratum functionary replacing his fingernails with fountain pen nibs. That sort of thing could well be “normal” in 40k but’s also irrelevant to the question at hand, which is the theme of a person like you or I, without the aid of being enhanced by sci fi tech, standing up against the worst horrors that the galaxy and the Warp beyond it can offer.

I really don't see it as a meaningful enhancement. If they routinely replaced all their limbs to make them tougher and stronger I would agree with your point, but the plugs by themselves do nothing. Those Repentia are not one bit super for having them. All they do is allow them to use a piece of equipment. It is as super as having a driver's licence tattooed on your arm.

 Manchu wrote:
Am I alone in thinking the shoes are neat?

I like them. They remind me of Samurai Tabi shoes.

 Crimson wrote:
I really don't see it as a meaningful enhancement. If they routinely replaced all their limbs to make them tougher and stronger I would agree with your point, but the plugs by themselves do nothing. Those Repentia are not one bit super for having them. All they do is allow them to use a piece of equipment. It is as super as having a driver's licence tattooed on your arm.

Inapt metaphor, even by your own standards. You say such interfaces are necessary to use PA well. So the enhancement in question would be precisely what would turn a regular woman into an elite super soldier. Whereas in the original concept of Sisters, that element was their faith rather than some kind of enhancement, a la Space Marines.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Retcanoness!

Is that a pun?

Assuming this is a straight question: yes.

Okay rephrasing time:
Can sometime explain the pun to me? Keep in mind I'm not very bright, also that English isn't my native tongue.

It combines the word RetCon, and Canoness.

 Manchu wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I really don't see it as a meaningful enhancement. If they routinely replaced all their limbs to make them tougher and stronger I would agree with your point, but the plugs by themselves do nothing. Those Repentia are not one bit super for having them. All they do is allow them to use a piece of equipment. It is as super as having a driver's licence tattooed on your arm.

Inapt metaphor, even by your own standards. You say such interfaces are necessary to use PA well. So the enhancement in question would be precisely what would turn a regular woman into an elite super soldier. Whereas in the original concept of Sisters, that element was their faith rather than some kind of enhancement, a la Space Marines.

You mean your headcanon of the original concept. Some of us have always assumed that they used this commonplace technology in a logical manner (instead of being Luddites even by Ecclesiarchy's standards) and that doing so does not any way diminish their normalness, as such things are perfectly normal in the setting.

No, I mean the original concept as presented in the materials sold by GW and its license holders including, most obviously, the original Repentia models.

I really can't be bothered to rehash the same tired argument for thousandth time. If you do, you can skip ten (or is it twenty?) pages back and reread. Let me know if you come up with any new points that have not already been addressed several times.

Right, there is no getting around the obvious fact that the original Repentia models had no PA interface plugs whereas the retconned renders from the bulletins do.

 Manchu wrote:
I think I see what you mean but consider this: We’re not really talking about some Administratum functionary replacing his fingernails with fountain pen nibs. That sort of thing could well be “normal” in 40k but’s also irrelevant to the question at hand, which is the theme of a person like you or I, without the aid of being enhanced by sci fi tech, standing up against the worst horrors that the galaxy and the Warp beyond it can offer.

which has never been the theme of the sisters of battle. the sisters are NOT people like you or I, they're people taken in as young children, and brain washed to be religious fantatics, who have a strength of faith that is, bluntly put, alien to anyone on earth today (they've more in common with a taliban sucide bomber then you or I) the everyman of the Imperium? thats the GUARD.

“People like you and I” in physical terms. I have assiduously used the phrase “physically normal” throughout this thread until the word “normal” was problematized.

 Manchu wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I really don't see it as a meaningful enhancement. If they routinely replaced all their limbs to make them tougher and stronger I would agree with your point, but the plugs by themselves do nothing. Those Repentia are not one bit super for having them. All they do is allow them to use a piece of equipment. It is as super as having a driver's licence tattooed on your arm.

Inapt metaphor, even by your own standards. You say such interfaces are necessary to use PA well. So the enhancement in question would be precisely what would turn a regular woman into an elite super soldier. Whereas in the original concept of Sisters, that element was their faith rather than some kind of enhancement, a la Space Marines.

In what world would the children raised in the Schola Progenium be considered the same as you or me? I guess I can't speak for you, but I know I wasn't hand-selected as a child to be placed in some Illuminati training program.

 Manchu wrote:
Right, there is no getting around the obvious fact that the original Repentia models had no PA interface plugs whereas the retconned renders from the bulletins do.

In addition to the fact that small plugs are something that could be easily covered by their collars, corsets and rags and that sculptors then would be unlikely to bother with such tiny details, there are literally mechanical cables coming out of the heads of some of them! So yes, bionics that are most likely meant to be some sort of neural connectors are present even on these crude models. Only the exact look of the connectors has changed on the new models.

Are we now done? (Why am I asking, of course we aren't...)

 EnTyme wrote:

In what world would the children raised in the Schola Progenium be considered the same as you or me? I guess I can't speak for you, but I know I wasn't hand-selected as a child to be placed in some Illuminati training program.

Let's be fair here. Manchu certainly has the unyielding dogmatic fanaticism part covered.

Thanks for posting a pic showing that the original models did not include PA plugs. Just like that was never mentioned in the fluff.

Right. I'm sure those cables coming out of the heads of two of the Repentia are just really cumbersome earrings . . . connected to the temple . . . for . . . reasons . . .

I have no trouble believing those cables could be interfaces for something like a Penitent Engine. But the fact that Sisters models in PA without helmets on don’t have bundles of cables jutting out of their heads is a pretty clear indication that they aren’t PA interfaces.