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Ossiachs are a good comparison, as this point Sisters are practically a new army too. It is utterly absurd to leave the faction effectively unplayable for this long.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/03 00:04:18
Casbyness wrote: This is a masterclass in how to completely kill the hype for a product that you carefully built up for almost two full years.
I feel like when the preorders for the rest of the range finally go up we should just ignore them for at least a month, in revenge for this pointless wait.
Some of this I expected based on the wording in some of the preview articles (some things were direct about jan/feb, others were a more vague 'next year'). Especially for things like the zephyrim, which were very late on the promo pictures- and completely missed the book's deadlines.
I didn't expect the HQ (a major lynchpin to having a playable army at all) to be one of the delayed models. Its a baffling choice or a terrible mix-up.
yeah deff annoying. I'll just take it slow and steady on painting what I have, try not to elt it bother me, I've still not assmbled all my basic troops yet. and I've gotta paint em before basing them due to the type of basing I'm doing
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
No they won't. Release schedule was locked up months ago. Models could very well still be not even produced yet and likely aren't let alone packed and eady to go
Can see the logic behind splitting up the release, can't see much logic in the way they split it.
It's not like I'm now going to buy Junith just because I need an HQ and she is one of he few ones available. She's the wrong Order for me, and if I get her for conversion potential, I'd get her regardless. Since the starter box, I have in fact purchased nothing yet, as I want to kitbash the sets and won't assemble most figures until the other minis are available too. Would like to have all the head and weapon options out there before deciding how to equip everybody...
Coenus Scaldingus wrote: Can see the logic behind splitting up the release, can't see much logic in the way they split it.
It's not like I'm now going to buy Junith just because I need an HQ and she is one of he few ones available. She's the wrong Order for me, and if I get her for conversion potential, I'd get her regardless. Since the starter box, I have in fact purchased nothing yet, as I want to kitbash the sets and won't assemble most figures until the other minis are available too. Would like to have all the head and weapon options out there before deciding how to equip everybody...
Yep. Order of releases is odd.
As it is I expected to get most of the kits(maybe something like 10) in first 1-3 weeks and then rest summer-autumn(among them seraphims who were specifically called "sometime next year" rather than january which was noted elsewhere, maybe terrain, could see dialogus and maybe rhino or immolator.
And with that I would have been fine. But key units being unavailable after 5 weeks? And wouldn't surprise me if 7.3 is earliest for preorders for next sisters...Almost 2 months from codex coming out before you can hope to have core units in your army. Gee.
Wish we even knew what MONTH next batch comes. I have some cash budgeted for canonesses(2) and imagifiers(3) I need to buy this month. But if nothing new comes this month(like it starts to look) then might just as well buy pair of exorcists...Ah well. At least next sunday knows whether I can go to tournament or not so guess I can use that to decide. Even if they get announced week later I can skip them until next month as it's too late anyway
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/03 09:33:45
maybe GW was concerned Sisters won't sell as well as hoped (yeah utterly stupid I agree) and thus want other releases in the month to ensure monthly sales have some padding.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
BrianDavion wrote: maybe GW was concerned Sisters won't sell as well as hoped (yeah utterly stupid I agree) and thus want other releases in the month to ensure monthly sales have some padding.
Or the opposite? They were worried it would take more demand than production capacity and therefore spaced them out to allow for production of lower selling kits and spreading sales out over multiple months.
We can speculate about this forever. But is was an odd choice to put out Judith before the Canoness.
Is it really though? After the way the Marine stuff was handled, this shouldn't be too big of a shock.
As it is I expected to get most of the kits(maybe something like 10) in first 1-3 weeks and then rest summer-autumn(among them seraphims who were specifically called "sometime next year" rather than january which was noted elsewhere, maybe terrain, could see dialogus and maybe rhino or immolator.
"Early next Year" was the terminology used. Which was the same as for the AdMech flyer, which we now know to be an April release.
And with that I would have been fine. But key units being unavailable after 5 weeks? And wouldn't surprise me if 7.3 is earliest for preorders for next sisters...Almost 2 months from codex coming out before you can hope to have core units in your army. Gee.
Three months from C: SM to the release of Infiltrators/Incursors, so I feel ya.
Wish we even knew what MONTH next batch comes. I have some cash budgeted for canonesses(2) and imagifiers(3) I need to buy this month. But if nothing new comes this month(like it starts to look) then might just as well buy pair of exorcists...Ah well. At least next sunday knows whether I can go to tournament or not so guess I can use that to decide. Even if they get announced week later I can skip them until next month as it's too late anyway
I'm guessing February 15th for the preorders on the remaining Sisters stuff.
C:sm had playable armies from get go. Especially wave 2 is completely different as they had generic hq's, troops etc already in. You could start army and get playable even without impulsor or special characters. Sisters are still something you can't really play.
Compare ossiriach that is actually comparable new faction start who got full release in 2 weeks and more than sisters have got in 5.
Apples and oranges. Marine wave 2 comparison is valid only if gw had removed all previous models from sale before that. Infiltrators missing? They are hardly only troop choice marines had now were they?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/03 13:37:28
Kanluwen wrote: Three months from C: SM to the release of Infiltrators/Incursors, so I feel ya.
As annoying that was, it's not like Marines were unplayable without them.
They were for someone who was getting into them for a Vanguard list.
Because hey, let's not pretend that Sisters aren't playable now if you were someone who bought the Limited box or are willing to do some conversions/kitbashes.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote: C:sm had playable armies from get go. Especially wave 2 is completely different as they had generic hq's, troops etc already in. You could start army and get playable even without impulsor or special characters. Sisters are still something you can't really play.
Compare ossiriach that is actually comparable new faction start who got full release in 2 weeks and more than sisters have got in 5.
Yes, and Ossiarchs were an outlier rather than the norm.
Apples and oranges. Marine wave 2 comparison is valid only if gw had removed all previous models from sale before that. Infiltrators missing? They are hardly only troop choice marines had now were they?
You're not missing troops, and you've missed the point. Book dropped, Infiltrators/Incursors got hyped up as a new troop choice for Vanguard forces...and if you didn't have Shadowspear, you were waiting until the IF/Salamander books for them. Because reasons.
Hopefully the releases are soon to finish out the range. But they might not be, so buckle up.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/02/03 13:56:07
Kanluwen wrote: Three months from C: SM to the release of Infiltrators/Incursors, so I feel ya.
As annoying that was, it's not like Marines were unplayable without them.
They were for someone who was getting into them for a Vanguard list.
Because hey, let's not pretend that Sisters aren't playable now if you were someone who bought the Limited box or are willing to do some conversions/kitbashes.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote: C:sm had playable armies from get go. Especially wave 2 is completely different as they had generic hq's, troops etc already in. You could start army and get playable even without impulsor or special characters. Sisters are still something you can't really play.
Compare ossiriach that is actually comparable new faction start who got full release in 2 weeks and more than sisters have got in 5.
Yes, and Ossiarchs were an outlier rather than the norm.
Apples and oranges. Marine wave 2 comparison is valid only if gw had removed all previous models from sale before that. Infiltrators missing? They are hardly only troop choice marines had now were they?
You're not missing troops, and you've missed the point. Book dropped, Infiltrators/Incursors got hyped up as a new troop choice for Vanguard forces...and if you didn't have Shadowspear, you were waiting until the IF/Salamander books for them. Because reasons.
Hopefully the releases are soon to finish out the range. But they might not be, so buckle up.
It's still a really stupid comparison. Imagifiers and Canonesses are mandatory to playing the army AT ALL and Seraphim and Zephyrim are two of the most competitive options in the book with Seraphim also being one of two total fast attack options. Saying 'just do some conversions bro' only emphasizes how stupid GW's strategy is because it entails replacing about 300-400$ worth of plastics to actually make a really good army list and 150-200$ worth of plastics to make a list you can play AT ALL.
Infiltrators and Incursors were fluff units for Corvax cosplayers who should really be using intercessors anyway. Utterly irrelevant to the army.
Kanluwen wrote: Three months from C: SM to the release of Infiltrators/Incursors, so I feel ya.
As annoying that was, it's not like Marines were unplayable without them.
They were for someone who was getting into them for a Vanguard list.
Because hey, let's not pretend that Sisters aren't playable now if you were someone who bought the Limited box or are willing to do some conversions/kitbashes.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote: C:sm had playable armies from get go. Especially wave 2 is completely different as they had generic hq's, troops etc already in. You could start army and get playable even without impulsor or special characters. Sisters are still something you can't really play.
Compare ossiriach that is actually comparable new faction start who got full release in 2 weeks and more than sisters have got in 5.
Yes, and Ossiarchs were an outlier rather than the norm.
Apples and oranges. Marine wave 2 comparison is valid only if gw had removed all previous models from sale before that. Infiltrators missing? They are hardly only troop choice marines had now were they?
You're not missing troops, and you've missed the point. Book dropped, Infiltrators/Incursors got hyped up as a new troop choice for Vanguard forces...and if you didn't have Shadowspear, you were waiting until the IF/Salamander books for them. Because reasons.
Hopefully the releases are soon to finish out the range. But they might not be, so buckle up.
It's still a really stupid comparison. Imagifiers and Canonesses are mandatory to playing the army AT ALL and Seraphim and Zephyrim are two of the most competitive options in the book with Seraphim also being one of two total fast attack options. Saying 'just do some conversions bro' only emphasizes how stupid GW's strategy is because it entails replacing about 300-400$ worth of plastics to actually make a really good army list and 150-200$ worth of plastics to make a list you can play AT ALL.
Infiltrators and Incursors were fluff units for Corvax cosplayers who should really be using intercessors anyway. Utterly irrelevant to the army.
While I agree it is a poor comparison, you don't get to decide which units other people think are relevant to their army, or what they should be using in their army.
The generic units which were shown as part of Codex: SM 2.0 taking as long to come out as they did is still an odd move, regardless of what you may think of said units.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
Canoness is pretty essential seeing it's only generic sister HQ there is...It's not like marines where "oh librarian is bit delayed so I'll take captain instead". It's "oh canoness is delayed, I have no HQ to pick"§
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/03 16:45:33
Keep in mind no Marine player is saying "We had it worse" or even "Marines where just as bad" they're saying "Yes, Marines had a slow ass release too and we hated it, we feel your pain sisters"
Marine players are empathizing with sisters. IMHO marine and sister players should both start making some news to GW about this, frankly it's annoying to have GW drop releases for other 40k products when your army release isn't finished and this is the second time they'd dropped PA in the middle of an armies major release. which leads to hard feelings all around.
when PA1 came out marine players where frustrated as they where still waiting for their stuff Eldar players where frustrated because they felt like their release's thunder was stolen. No one was happy
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Casbyness wrote: This is a masterclass in how to completely kill the hype for a product that you carefully built up for almost two full years.
I feel like when the preorders for the rest of the range finally go up we should just ignore them for at least a month, in revenge for this pointless wait.
Some of this I expected based on the wording in some of the preview articles (some things were direct about jan/feb, others were a more vague 'next year'). Especially for things like the zephyrim, which were very late on the promo pictures- and completely missed the book's deadlines.
I didn't expect the HQ (a major lynchpin to having a playable army at all) to be one of the delayed models. Its a baffling choice or a terrible mix-up.
Much Like the Space Wolves base marines kit you can put together a decent cannoness with the parts provided in the battle sisters kit. little bit of cutting and gluing you could probably get most of the options.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/04 02:36:15
Much Like the Space Wolves base marines kit you can put together a decent cannoness with the parts provided in the battle sisters kit. little bit of cutting and gluing you could probably get most of the options.
Options? Maybe half (rod, fire, inferno pistol all seem to not be in the sisters kit).
More importantly, the canoness should stand out a bit, not blend into the basic squads.
Most importantly, it shouldn't even vaguely be an issue. GW makes a big deal about selling valid armies even out of things like the 'start collecting' boxes. For a redone line to go for a month (and counting) without the very basics of a valid army is ridiculous and completely on them. They've managed to pull new and revamped armies into existence with little trouble (and will be doing so again in the near future). Screwing this one up is baffling- you don't make entry level screw ups of your own standards 30+ years on.
Much Like the Space Wolves base marines kit you can put together a decent cannoness with the parts provided in the battle sisters kit. little bit of cutting and gluing you could probably get most of the options.
Options? Maybe half (rod, fire, inferno pistol all seem to not be in the sisters kit).
More importantly, the canoness should stand out a bit, not blend into the basic squads.
Most importantly, it shouldn't even vaguely be an issue. GW makes a big deal about selling valid armies even out of things like the 'start collecting' boxes. For a redone line to go for a month (and counting) without the very basics of a valid army is ridiculous and completely on them. They've managed to pull new and revamped armies into existence with little trouble (and will be doing so again in the near future). Screwing this one up is baffling- you don't make entry level screw ups of your own standards 30+ years on.
IMHO the basic release should have been "canoness, battle sisters, and retributors" that would have been eneugh to build basic units to fill the HQ, Troops, Heavy support, elites and fast attacks. all with 3 basic kits. I woinder if they're holding back on required stuff so as to keep attention. by holding the cannoness for last it means people don't buy an army and stop paying attention when the other goodies come out
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Casbyness wrote: This is a masterclass in how to completely kill the hype for a product that you carefully built up for almost two full years.
I feel like when the preorders for the rest of the range finally go up we should just ignore them for at least a month, in revenge for this pointless wait.
Some of this I expected based on the wording in some of the preview articles (some things were direct about jan/feb, others were a more vague 'next year'). Especially for things like the zephyrim, which were very late on the promo pictures- and completely missed the book's deadlines.
I didn't expect the HQ (a major lynchpin to having a playable army at all) to be one of the delayed models. Its a baffling choice or a terrible mix-up.
Much Like the Space Wolves base marines kit you can put together a decent cannoness with the parts provided in the battle sisters kit. little bit of cutting and gluing you could probably get most of the options.
How to separate her from sister superior then? Canoness doesn't even have any gear that comes in basic box that's not available to superiors so can't do that either.
Much Like the Space Wolves base marines kit you can put together a decent cannoness with the parts provided in the battle sisters kit. little bit of cutting and gluing you could probably get most of the options.
Options? Maybe half (rod, fire, inferno pistol all seem to not be in the sisters kit).
More importantly, the canoness should stand out a bit, not blend into the basic squads.
Most importantly, it shouldn't even vaguely be an issue. GW makes a big deal about selling valid armies even out of things like the 'start collecting' boxes. For a redone line to go for a month (and counting) without the very basics of a valid army is ridiculous and completely on them. They've managed to pull new and revamped armies into existence with little trouble (and will be doing so again in the near future). Screwing this one up is baffling- you don't make entry level screw ups of your own standards 30+ years on.
IMHO the basic release should have been "canoness, battle sisters, and retributors" that would have been eneugh to build basic units to fill the HQ, Troops, Heavy support, elites and fast attacks. all with 3 basic kits. I woinder if they're holding back on required stuff so as to keep attention. by holding the cannoness for last it means people don't buy an army and stop paying attention when the other goodies come out
Why make it so complex? GW has stated they think their customers are not gamers but in hobby of buying GW models. So they don't care how playable collection is. They assume every customer buys box or two of everything because that's what the hobby is all about. Buying GW models. Not even assembling or painting nevermind playing. Buy more models!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/04 07:00:31
Casbyness wrote: This is a masterclass in how to completely kill the hype for a product that you carefully built up for almost two full years.
I feel like when the preorders for the rest of the range finally go up we should just ignore them for at least a month, in revenge for this pointless wait.
Some of this I expected based on the wording in some of the preview articles (some things were direct about jan/feb, others were a more vague 'next year'). Especially for things like the zephyrim, which were very late on the promo pictures- and completely missed the book's deadlines.
I didn't expect the HQ (a major lynchpin to having a playable army at all) to be one of the delayed models. Its a baffling choice or a terrible mix-up.
Much Like the Space Wolves base marines kit you can put together a decent cannoness with the parts provided in the battle sisters kit. little bit of cutting and gluing you could probably get most of the options.
How to separate her from sister superior then? Canoness doesn't even have any gear that comes in basic box that's not available to superiors so can't do that either.
Much Like the Space Wolves base marines kit you can put together a decent cannoness with the parts provided in the battle sisters kit. little bit of cutting and gluing you could probably get most of the options.
Options? Maybe half (rod, fire, inferno pistol all seem to not be in the sisters kit).
More importantly, the canoness should stand out a bit, not blend into the basic squads.
Most importantly, it shouldn't even vaguely be an issue. GW makes a big deal about selling valid armies even out of things like the 'start collecting' boxes. For a redone line to go for a month (and counting) without the very basics of a valid army is ridiculous and completely on them. They've managed to pull new and revamped armies into existence with little trouble (and will be doing so again in the near future). Screwing this one up is baffling- you don't make entry level screw ups of your own standards 30+ years on.
IMHO the basic release should have been "canoness, battle sisters, and retributors" that would have been eneugh to build basic units to fill the HQ, Troops, Heavy support, elites and fast attacks. all with 3 basic kits. I woinder if they're holding back on required stuff so as to keep attention. by holding the cannoness for last it means people don't buy an army and stop paying attention when the other goodies come out
Why make it so complex? GW has stated they think their customers are not gamers but in hobby of buying GW models. So they don't care how playable collection is. They assume every customer buys box or two of everything because that's what the hobby is all about. Buying GW models. Not even assembling or painting nevermind playing. Buy more models!
well that was the old CEO, the new one appers to at least understand people buy the models for a reason. although there is proably a sizable percentage of the market that consists of "hobbists"
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Why make it so complex? GW has stated they think their customers are not gamers but in hobby of buying GW models. So they don't care how playable collection is. They assume every customer buys box or two of everything because that's what the hobby is all about. Buying GW models. Not even assembling or painting nevermind playing. Buy more models!
Wrong. Tom Kirby thought this, not GW as a whole. Now he's gone the company has changed a whole lot outwardly as they don't have to listen to his guff anymore. This doesn't change the fact that there are still some people who just like to buy/collect models, they exist, as do all other types of gamers, hobbyists etc
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/04 11:12:57
I'm not going to re-read the lunacy that is the last few pages of this thread, but I'd be very surprised if anyone actually said that. Even that one guy banging on about how relatively difficult it might be for an Inquisitor to acquire power armour, I don't think even that guy said that.
tneva82 wrote: How to separate her from sister superior then? Canoness doesn't even have any gear that comes in basic box that's not available to superiors so can't do that either.
However you want. It is not like the original metal Canoness was particularly obviously different from a superior either. Some sort of a backpack ornament doodah might be a good indicator, or even just slightly different colour scheme.
Old gw, new gw, only thing that changed was pr department. Rules are same imbalanced mess, attittude is same. They just put more leaves to fire to generate bigger smoke to fool fans.
tneva82 wrote: How to separate her from sister superior then? Canoness doesn't even have any gear that comes in basic box that's not available to superiors so can't do that either.
However you want. It is not like the original metal Canoness was particularly obviously different from a superior either. Some sort of a backpack ornament doodah might be a good indicator, or even just slightly different colour scheme.
A variation on the paint job could also be enough.
tneva82 wrote: Old gw, new gw, only thing that changed was pr department. Rules are same imbalanced mess, attittude is same. They just put more leaves to fire to generate bigger smoke to fool fans.
It's not as simple as that. While new GW is a marketing invention, they do put more emphasis on their various games than they did under Kirby. They don't have the skill or the will to make most of those games consistently good, but I have no doubt that they have actually learned that there is a portion of gamers among their customer base that they want to appeal to make more money. Marketing is still a more powerful tool to GW than the quality of the actual games, but the latter does seem to receive some attention under Rountree.
The Sisters release being considered a mess is people buying into the marketing a little too much, I can agree on that. Sisters really aren't any kind of special in spite of what GW's marketing would have us believe. Sister's aren't cut any slack on pricing to let the army take off. They come after last year's price hike and are priced accordingly. They got a bundle box exclusive for some time to get people to pay more for the bundle than they might have had the components been released individually. They're withholding the Canoness in hopes of people needing an HQ and buying the expensive centerpiece models instead, and hopefully the Canoness kit later as well. And like (almost) any other army they'll get their Start Collecting down the line when the individual kits have sold enough. Probably with a Christmas box this year because they're new and it's an opportunity to catch even more people. It's by the book GW sales tactics. Potentially annoying, no doubt, but also pretty foreseeable.
Still, we have plastic Sisters now and holding out for another couple of months for GW to get the releases over with and give us the full range to work with should hopefully not be as aggravating as the years and decades of waiting for plastic Sisters have been.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
Geifer wrote: The Sisters release being considered a mess is people buying into the marketing a little too much, I can agree on that. Sisters really aren't any kind of special in spite of what GW's marketing would have us believe. Sister's aren't cut any slack on pricing to let the army take off. They come after last year's price hike and are priced accordingly. They got a bundle box exclusive for some time to get people to pay more for the bundle than they might have had the components been released individually.
I haven't seen anybody expect or ask for a special treatment? Just a sensible release schedule, whereby the fundamental parts of an army are the first to be released. GW doesn't release brand new armies often enough to clearly indicate their typical strategy, but I wouldn't have expected it to be this - if anything because it kills the hype rather than feed it. Based on the prices of the individual kits, the bundle was rather a good price - even if you don't care for a different cover on the codex or indeed the box-exclusive cannoness which few people were particularly enthusiastic about.
