Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
I see. It is unfortunate you are that quick to judge instead of discussing things out like reasonable adults. I've neither said LVO to be a travesty nor belittled their work, which I see as high quality effort, besides saying I'd prefer more varied tables as I believe those would improve the game for a larger group than merely those who attend the event. I have nothing to apologize for if you read what has actually been said and refrain from putting words in people's mouths ("spitting on their work", really?). Since you argue further in bad faith and resort to childish displays of intimidation, it is better to end it here. Good day to you.
I see. It is unfortunate you are that quick to judge instead of discussing things out like reasonable adults. I've neither said LVO to be a travesty nor belittled their work, which I see as high quality effort, besides saying I'd prefer more varied tables as I believe those would improve the game for a larger group than merely those who attend the event. I have nothing to apologize for if you read what has actually been said and refrain from putting words in people's mouths ("spitting on their work", really?). Since you argue further in bad faith and resort to childish displays of intimidation, it is better to end it here. Good day to you.
Egg crates would be good too. Or Popsicle sticks. Old sprue and index cards.
For two people having a vicious argument in a public thread for pages, you two are incredibly well spoken and polite.
Might I suggest you both back out of this thread for a day? You two both seem like good folk who'd typically get along. And neither of you seem to be looking for a flamewar.
The direct conversation, unfortunately, has nowhere to go but down. Rarely do such conversations work out in the end, even between reasonable people.
Bharring wrote: For two people having a vicious argument in a public thread for pages, you two are incredibly well spoken and polite.
Might I suggest you both back out of this thread for a day? You two both seem like good folk who'd typically get along. And neither of you seem to be looking for a flamewar.
The direct conversation, unfortunately, has nowhere to go but down. Rarely do such conversations work out in the end, even between reasonable people.
That's very generous of you to say. I appreciate you for it.
But let's look at the constructive aspects of the conversation. This has been a productive discussion about the expectations around major tournaments.
I'd gladly trade the quality of terrain for an end to the accusations of laziness and ineptitude on the part of TOs. If it meant a stop to the attacks, I'd go so far as balled up shrink wrap, xeroxed cut-outs taped to tables, rusty buckets and Styrofoam cups (so long as someone drew double-headed eagles on them with a fat-tipped Sharpie - that's where I draw the line and I wouldn't accept less if you paid me.)
If this is a community, the people who take the time to nourish it should be treated better. Constructive comments have a place, but dumping on the creative efforts of a volunteer group is bad form.
Looking on that constructive side, and as an olive branch towards techsoldaten, I agree that people who do lots of work to build communities should be appreciated for their efforts. In that sense it is quite interesting that GW has begun their "Warhammer Heroes" thing, for that exact purpose of highlighting folks who toil to make the hobby better for lots of others. Haven't seen any locally relevant names on those lists, but as those are community-driven mentions, they might be more interesting for those who live in US or UK. Maybe?
Something I would like to know though is what's with the need for big numbers? If you can't build enough terrain for big numbers at once why not hold smaller tournaments until you have enough terrain to run bigger one?
Though at least LVO is far cry from London GT where there were literally unpainted styrox walls for terrain! That has got to be lowpoint for big tournament terrain...LVO at least seems to have all painted even if it's sparsish and one dimensional and far from my preference(I will not play in such symmetric boards for one).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/14 20:11:53
To be honest I don't see a problem with the terrain in those tables.
I mean, they could have a little more of area cover and scatter terrain but in the mayority of games thats more for the looks than for the battlefield impact.
And I say this when the store I play has so much terrain that last month tournament my last enemy did hide 3 Imperial Knights (One of them a Castellan) from my full Tau army with deployment (The central LOS blocking terrain piece was a fething 70cm of height cathedral), and in most tables moving transport is nearly impossible because theres so much ruins and fences and buildings
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/14 20:53:53
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
tneva82 wrote: Something I would like to know though is what's with the need for big numbers? If you can't build enough terrain for big numbers at once why not hold smaller tournaments until you have enough terrain to run bigger one?
Though at least LVO is far cry from London GT where there were literally unpainted styrox walls for terrain! That has got to be lowpoint for big tournament terrain...LVO at least seems to have all painted even if it's sparsish and one dimensional and far from my preference(I will not play in such symmetric boards for one).
Everyone wants to be the biggest. And if there is a demand for it why not. From pics ive seen terrain seems fine. The draws are random so if you go to a tournament you have to be prepared for a variety (or lack of) terrain.
As for not playing on symmetric boards, can I asked why not? I usually only try to play on symmetric terrain simply because I feel its fairer. This is set up before we pick sides. That way there can be no complaints.
As for one dimensional, its a competitive tournament. You need terrain to block line of sight, perhaps have multi levels, provide cover etc. LVO terrain does all that. Why the heck do you need scatter terrain. Go to a GW store if you want them feels?
techsoldaten wrote:
Let's say you came to my FLGS for a tournament and said the same thing about the terrain (which is all the work of volunteers.) You would get a Bagging for saying that about other hobbyists.
A Bagging means you would be told to put away your toys and get out of the store. One of us would take a slow walk to the back to get a trash bag, which takes about 2 minutes. You would have that time to pack your army, but you'd probably waste most of it arguing you didn't do nothing wrong, we don't own the store, we are going to need to get the cops to make you leave, etc. When someone gets back with the bag, we would scrape your toys into it, toss the bag in the street and watch you chase them. We'd get a picture of your face to add to the Dindu board, to make sure everyone knows you are not welcome. We'd laugh when you call the cops to complain we broke your toys. Even the people who were not there to see it happen would make jokes about it for years, you'd get an awful nickname that would be commemorated on the bathroom wall. I'd name a model in my army after you, one that dies often, and it would be better than a distraction Carnifex because everyone would treat it as a mission to destroy it.
That's how my FLGS community operates, and I see that as the right and proper response to those who want to dump on the work of creative types. The online community seems to have the same values, it's just less effective at enforcing them. In that sense, the best possible action TOs could take is banning you and others with that same passive-aggressive negativity.
Holy crap that's horrifying, you would throw their models into a bag and throw it physically out onto the street? That sounds like a much worse thing to do with disagreeing with someone, surely getting them to leave without breaking or handling any of their property without permission is the much nicer way to behave as a community?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/15 11:50:11
Martel732 wrote: Drukhari are fast and typically suffer no movement penalties. This means they can clear LoS blockers and alpha strike slower armies that take penalties when they move like marines.
Most drukhari I face use the ignore cover coven as we have phased in more and more terrain. It's not helping as Dakka predicted. No, they are still using skimmers. Ignore cover splinter is really good.
Ignore Cover doesn't ignore Obscured, and even then they still need LoS. If you have enough terrain to completely block LoS over large portions of the board things get more interesting.
Martel732 wrote: Drukhari are fast and typically suffer no movement penalties. This means they can clear LoS blockers and alpha strike slower armies that take penalties when they move like marines.
Most drukhari I face use the ignore cover coven as we have phased in more and more terrain. It's not helping as Dakka predicted. No, they are still using skimmers. Ignore cover splinter is really good.
Ignore Cover doesn't ignore Obscured, and even then they still need LoS. If you have enough terrain to completely block LoS over large portions of the board things get more interesting.
what do you mean it doesn't ignore Obscured?
Just being partially obscured doesn't do anything in 8th edition. Its only relevant for claiming cover saves as non-infantry while also being inside terrain. Which 'ignore cover' would then ignore.
Martel732 wrote: Drukhari are fast and typically suffer no movement penalties. This means they can clear LoS blockers and alpha strike slower armies that take penalties when they move like marines.
Most drukhari I face use the ignore cover coven as we have phased in more and more terrain. It's not helping as Dakka predicted. No, they are still using skimmers. Ignore cover splinter is really good.
Ignore Cover doesn't ignore Obscured, and even then they still need LoS. If you have enough terrain to completely block LoS over large portions of the board things get more interesting.
what do you mean it doesn't ignore Obscured?
Just being partially obscured doesn't do anything in 8th edition. Its only relevant for claiming cover saves as non-infantry while also being inside terrain. Which 'ignore cover' would then ignore.
In optional terrain rules (Cities of Death), Obscured (not entirely visible if infantry, 50 % hidden if others) grants -1 to hit versus shooting. That is 8th edition as well, if not the usual tournament standard.
Martel732 wrote: Drukhari are fast and typically suffer no movement penalties. This means they can clear LoS blockers and alpha strike slower armies that take penalties when they move like marines.
Most drukhari I face use the ignore cover coven as we have phased in more and more terrain. It's not helping as Dakka predicted. No, they are still using skimmers. Ignore cover splinter is really good.
Ignore Cover doesn't ignore Obscured, and even then they still need LoS. If you have enough terrain to completely block LoS over large portions of the board things get more interesting.
what do you mean it doesn't ignore Obscured?
Just being partially obscured doesn't do anything in 8th edition. Its only relevant for claiming cover saves as non-infantry while also being inside terrain. Which 'ignore cover' would then ignore.
In optional terrain rules (Cities of Death), Obscured (not entirely visible if infantry, 50 % hidden if others) grants -1 to hit versus shooting. That is 8th edition as well, if not the usual tournament standard.
Ah ok, never even seen anyone play Cities of Death so didn't know.
Martel732 wrote: Drukhari are fast and typically suffer no movement penalties. This means they can clear LoS blockers and alpha strike slower armies that take penalties when they move like marines.
Most drukhari I face use the ignore cover coven as we have phased in more and more terrain. It's not helping as Dakka predicted. No, they are still using skimmers. Ignore cover splinter is really good.
Ignore Cover doesn't ignore Obscured, and even then they still need LoS. If you have enough terrain to completely block LoS over large portions of the board things get more interesting.
what do you mean it doesn't ignore Obscured?
Just being partially obscured doesn't do anything in 8th edition. Its only relevant for claiming cover saves as non-infantry while also being inside terrain. Which 'ignore cover' would then ignore.
In optional terrain rules (Cities of Death), Obscured (not entirely visible if infantry, 50 % hidden if others) grants -1 to hit versus shooting. That is 8th edition as well, if not the usual tournament standard.
Ah ok, never even seen anyone play Cities of Death so didn't know.
We've stopped playing with the regular terrain rules and exclusively use CoD rules instead both because they're clearer and because they cut the game's lethality down to something a little more reasonable. And it did breathe life into some of the army Traits (*cough* Imperial Fist *cough*) that weren't seeing play. The various -1 to be hit traits are still prevalent, but they're no longer the only thing being used by anyone with access to them.
It's easy to forget sometimes that not everyone adopted the CoD rules wholesale.
Anyways, I notice one constant thing about the terrain discussion: "The same". Both sides have roughly the same terrain. There's no benefit to being able to pick a side.
I bring this up because I also saw this as a complaint in Warmahordes; you had terrain that was basically completely symmetrical.
That is not how the game is meant to be. Terrain should be varied so that picking a side is a meaningful choice.
Too much "sameness" is what's making competitive 40k such a weird skew, and people continue to think that it's a good thing.
I didn't say I understood your points, I said I see what's going on. Dindu Nuffin is a name for people who can't (or won't) admit a problem with their behavior.
You called the work of the LVOTOs a travesty and said it needs to be corrected for the "greater good of the game and community." Then you put up some shady posts after being called out for it, asking some pretty manipulative questions trying to get me to say I was going overboard in my distaste for your comments.
Community is a funny word, it implies shared values across a set of people. Likewise, it implies certain behaviors are unacceptable. Your posts make a big assumption about the nature of the community and the values shared by players.
The 40k hobbyist community I belong to favors a DIY spirit, personal expressions of creativity, mutual respect between members, and a shared love of the game. While there are some members of the community who are extremely gifted in various aspects of the hobby (playing the game / painting / modelling / etc,) we recognize that we all bring a different set of skills and have different thresholds regarding quality of execution. As long as someone tries, we look at that favorably; if someone wants to talk trash about other people's work, that's a big problem.
Let's say you came to my FLGS for a tournament and said the same thing about the terrain (which is all the work of volunteers.) You would get a Bagging for saying that about other hobbyists.
A Bagging means you would be told to put away your toys and get out of the store. One of us would take a slow walk to the back to get a trash bag, which takes about 2 minutes. You would have that time to pack your army, but you'd probably waste most of it arguing you didn't do nothing wrong, we don't own the store, we are going to need to get the cops to make you leave, etc. When someone gets back with the bag, we would scrape your toys into it, toss the bag in the street and watch you chase them. We'd get a picture of your face to add to the Dindu board, to make sure everyone knows you are not welcome. We'd laugh when you call the cops to complain we broke your toys. Even the people who were not there to see it happen would make jokes about it for years, you'd get an awful nickname that would be commemorated on the bathroom wall. I'd name a model in my army after you, one that dies often, and it would be better than a distraction Carnifex because everyone would treat it as a mission to destroy it.
That's how my FLGS community operates, and I see that as the right and proper response to those who want to dump on the work of creative types. The online community seems to have the same values, it's just less effective at enforcing them. In that sense, the best possible action TOs could take is banning you and others with that same passive-aggressive negativity.
I'm feel bad you can't see why spitting on the work of several dozen volunteers is a bad thing, or that you believe some big speech is going to change what you said to mean something else. But there are a hundred ways you could have expressed your concerns, you chose to talk malfeasance, and that's incompatible with the values of any community that values creativity and individual expression. I didn't see an apology in to the LVO people in all those posts of yours, so I assume you are sincere in your beliefs that volunteers making terrain for tournaments have to live up to your standards or be trash-talked on major forums. It's wrong, and I hope in time you will see that.
But the greater good of the game and community is not served by better terrain, it's served by getting rid of the trash. Could care less about terrain, give me toilet paper rolls and shredded cardboard over bad actors any day.
So you bully people who think that doing things wrong, even if they take effort, is something that needs to be told that it's wrong? Gotcha. Your "community", and to be honest you by extension, seem like absolute scumbags to even think something like that is even remotely acceptable. If the store condones that sort of behavior then they are even worse and deserve to go out of business. Not only that but you seem to feel it's okay to potentially destroy someone else's property and then laugh at them for it.
It doesn't matter the work of several dozen volunteers if they do a bad job of it. You're defending the equivalent of putting together a house made of sticks and then getting offended that it's not really livable despite it taking a lot of effort. That terrain was gak when it comes to gameplay. Nothing changes that. "But we worked hard on it with a tight deadline" isn't an excuse for doing a shoddy job in anything.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/02/15 16:59:56
Wayniac, the terrain at LVO wasn't gak, merely lacking for some of us who do not pray on the altar of competetive ITC. I agree on the "sameness" point on principle, though, as choosing the deployment zone should be a proper decision and often in GW missions gives some advantage to you via terrain and some to your opponent via seeing your setup or starting the game etc. Varied layouts bring interest to the game.
Wayniac wrote: Anyways, I notice one constant thing about the terrain discussion: "The same". Both sides have roughly the same terrain. There's no benefit to being able to pick a side.
I bring this up because I also saw this as a complaint in Warmahordes; you had terrain that was basically completely symmetrical.
That is not how the game is meant to be. Terrain should be varied so that picking a side is a meaningful choice.
Too much "sameness" is what's making competitive 40k such a weird skew, and people continue to think that it's a good thing.
I don't know about that. That's just more randomness on who gets the option to pick and then forces his opponent into unfavorable terrain. It's not a really skillful choice unless you're using the newer CA rules and the deployments aren't fixed.
I didn't say I understood your points, I said I see what's going on. Dindu Nuffin is a name for people who can't (or won't) admit a problem with their behavior.
You called the work of the LVOTOs a travesty and said it needs to be corrected for the "greater good of the game and community." Then you put up some shady posts after being called out for it, asking some pretty manipulative questions trying to get me to say I was going overboard in my distaste for your comments.
Community is a funny word, it implies shared values across a set of people. Likewise, it implies certain behaviors are unacceptable. Your posts make a big assumption about the nature of the community and the values shared by players.
The 40k hobbyist community I belong to favors a DIY spirit, personal expressions of creativity, mutual respect between members, and a shared love of the game. While there are some members of the community who are extremely gifted in various aspects of the hobby (playing the game / painting / modelling / etc,) we recognize that we all bring a different set of skills and have different thresholds regarding quality of execution. As long as someone tries, we look at that favorably; if someone wants to talk trash about other people's work, that's a big problem.
Let's say you came to my FLGS for a tournament and said the same thing about the terrain (which is all the work of volunteers.) You would get a Bagging for saying that about other hobbyists.
A Bagging means you would be told to put away your toys and get out of the store. One of us would take a slow walk to the back to get a trash bag, which takes about 2 minutes. You would have that time to pack your army, but you'd probably waste most of it arguing you didn't do nothing wrong, we don't own the store, we are going to need to get the cops to make you leave, etc. When someone gets back with the bag, we would scrape your toys into it, toss the bag in the street and watch you chase them. We'd get a picture of your face to add to the Dindu board, to make sure everyone knows you are not welcome. We'd laugh when you call the cops to complain we broke your toys. Even the people who were not there to see it happen would make jokes about it for years, you'd get an awful nickname that would be commemorated on the bathroom wall. I'd name a model in my army after you, one that dies often, and it would be better than a distraction Carnifex because everyone would treat it as a mission to destroy it.
That's how my FLGS community operates, and I see that as the right and proper response to those who want to dump on the work of creative types. The online community seems to have the same values, it's just less effective at enforcing them. In that sense, the best possible action TOs could take is banning you and others with that same passive-aggressive negativity.
I'm feel bad you can't see why spitting on the work of several dozen volunteers is a bad thing, or that you believe some big speech is going to change what you said to mean something else. But there are a hundred ways you could have expressed your concerns, you chose to talk malfeasance, and that's incompatible with the values of any community that values creativity and individual expression. I didn't see an apology in to the LVO people in all those posts of yours, so I assume you are sincere in your beliefs that volunteers making terrain for tournaments have to live up to your standards or be trash-talked on major forums. It's wrong, and I hope in time you will see that.
But the greater good of the game and community is not served by better terrain, it's served by getting rid of the trash. Could care less about terrain, give me toilet paper rolls and shredded cardboard over bad actors any day.
I suspect people don't purchase airplane tickets, hotel rooms, and event tickets to come play at your FLGS.
Wayniac wrote: So you bully people who think that doing things wrong, even if they take effort, is something that needs to be told that it's wrong? Gotcha. Your "community", and to be honest you by extension, seem like absolute scumbags to even think something like that is even remotely acceptable. If the store condones that sort of behavior then they are even worse and deserve to go out of business.
It doesn't matter the work of several dozen volunteers if they do a bad job of it. You're defending the equivalent of putting together a house made of sticks and then getting offended that it's not really livable despite it taking a lot of effort. That terrain was gak when it comes to gameplay. Nothing changes that. "But we worked hard on it with a tight deadline" isn't an excuse for doing a shoddy job in anything.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Our FLGS is filled with friendly, incredibly intelligent, charismatic people that love the game of 40k and invest time and effort into building a community around the game. Every member treats it as a mission to help others cultivate the same joy and excitement we've experienced through game nights, tournaments, advice from expert players, and the like. Every year, thousands of people visit that FLGS, hundreds of people play games late into the night, and we volunteer a lot of our time for the benefit of others.
Part of the reason this model works is that we take responsibility for understanding what people are looking to get out of it. Sadly, there are some people whose main goal in life is to rag on the efforts of others like you just did. We recognize our FLGS is not set up to accommodate that, we're never going to host a trash-talk night to fulfill the deepest needs of these folks. We also understand that having over-entitled, elitist attack snobs around means actual hobbyists - the ones who are there to exercise their creativity and imagination in a healthy, positive manner - get less out of investing their time and energy to the hobby. It's a net negative situation that leads to atrophy, rot and people walking away from the game.
We're not unsympathetic, we understand there are those who enjoy putting down others, complaining incessantly, and being the nuisance no one asked for. That's fine, be who you want to be. What a Bagging really means is we are investing our time and energy to focusing on the journey those folks go through in life, to find a hobby they can enjoy free from the problems other people create. I make a point with these people to offer ideas about activities that can be enjoyed in solitude, like wood whitling, blacksmithing, card games, etc.
This isn't bullying. The moment we tell someone to leave the store they are trespassing, we're just making sure the departure happens with the least amount of disruption possible. Anyone who sees such low value in the work of others doesn't deserve to have others see much worth in their own. The fact we take the time to put someone's garbage army in a drawstring trash bag demonstrates how much we care, this means the broken bits don't end up scattered all over the pavement. Some of them are sharp and could hurt our feet. The fact we can get this all done in about 3 minutes speaks to the level of camaraderie and commitment these actions engender, when people see you standing up for them they cheer and have a great time. I do get a kick out of all the high fives going around while some lonely wierdo stares in the plate glass windows, it's a learning moment for that wierdo that may cause them to reevalute the choices they made in life. Everybody wins.
While the anonymity of the Internet affords you certain privileges, no one is entitled to be the worst version of themselves in our FLGS. What you call a shoddy job looks like a good effort to me, and it's sad you see it as your mission in life to attack it. Maybe you are some creative wizard capable of much better, who knows? I've noticed the people who complain the loudest tend to be the ones who do the least for the people around them, not many people get to see their work. The lonely, terrible life of a misanthrope must have some advantages, maybe you can educate us on why this is a good way for someone to spend their time. Maybe you can find other people who feel the same way and form a trash talking club, which would be a great outcome for you.
Eventually, TOs who want to grow their events will realize that scaling an attendee pool means weeding out the attack snobs in an efficient manner. Like I said, there are a lot of compromises I would be willing to make to support this. Would gladly play games with wadded-up pieces of newspaper as terrain if it meant I never need to hear you attack fellow hobbyists in this manner again. TOs can have a big impact on that, at events and in forums, by simply setting some rules and forcing people to live up to them.
Yeah, nahh, I'm gonna be real man, "bagging" someones things sounds very much like destruction of personal property, which is likely against the law, or at the very least bringing the location into things to have them held accountable for one reason or another.
I know you're having fun taking a piss at this guy, but you're poorly presenting yourself as well.
I agree with you on your sentiments, but you're doing your own argument a disservice by the way you're phrasing it intentionally.
Martel732 wrote: Drukhari are fast and typically suffer no movement penalties. This means they can clear LoS blockers and alpha strike slower armies that take penalties when they move like marines.
Most drukhari I face use the ignore cover coven as we have phased in more and more terrain. It's not helping as Dakka predicted. No, they are still using skimmers. Ignore cover splinter is really good.
Ignore Cover doesn't ignore Obscured, and even then they still need LoS. If you have enough terrain to completely block LoS over large portions of the board things get more interesting.
what do you mean it doesn't ignore Obscured?
Just being partially obscured doesn't do anything in 8th edition. Its only relevant for claiming cover saves as non-infantry while also being inside terrain. Which 'ignore cover' would then ignore.
In optional terrain rules (Cities of Death), Obscured (not entirely visible if infantry, 50 % hidden if others) grants -1 to hit versus shooting. That is 8th edition as well, if not the usual tournament standard.
Doesn't Ignore Cover completely negate that benefit provided by said cover though?
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Not only that but unless the owner tells someone to leave the store, it's not trespassing. You don't get to basically have a vigilante mob of players say "Leave the store now!" for whatever reason they want and have it hold any weight whatsoever.
However, you slice it that's bullying and strongarm tactics because you don't like what someone said.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/15 17:37:37
Slayer, no. Cover is distinct from Obscuration. You get Cover, +1 for light or +2 for proper buildings, from certain things, whereas you get Obscuration from anything physically in the way.
Sherrypie wrote: Slayer, no. Cover is distinct from Obscuration. You get Cover, +1 for light or +2 for proper buildings, from certain things, whereas you get Obscuration from anything physically in the way.
Yeah because what 8th edition needs is more - to hit modifiers to stack.
The rules aren't bad persay but they would really be much more appropriate if 40K used D10's or D12's or such. Having everything reduced to hitting on 6's regardless of their stats isn't good for balance when GW insist on pricing weapons on BS.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/15 18:08:52
Sherrypie wrote: Slayer, no. Cover is distinct from Obscuration. You get Cover, +1 for light or +2 for proper buildings, from certain things, whereas you get Obscuration from anything physically in the way.
Yeah because what 8th edition needs is more - to hit modifiers to stack.
The rules aren't bad persay but they would really be much more appropriate if 40K used D10's or D12's or such. Having everything reduced to hitting on 6's regardless of their stats isn't good for balance when GW insist on pricing weapons on BS.
Sure, but with that being highly unlikely for a change, adding changes that make units more survivable sounds good to me.
If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed.
Sherrypie wrote: Slayer, no. Cover is distinct from Obscuration. You get Cover, +1 for light or +2 for proper buildings, from certain things, whereas you get Obscuration from anything physically in the way.
Yeah because what 8th edition needs is more - to hit modifiers to stack.
The rules aren't bad persay but they would really be much more appropriate if 40K used D10's or D12's or such. Having everything reduced to hitting on 6's regardless of their stats isn't good for balance when GW insist on pricing weapons on BS.
Sure, but with that being highly unlikely for a change, adding changes that make units more survivable sounds good to me.
Let's remember those modifiers usually benefit other units than the current top dogs: in dense cities Alaitoc is often so close anyway their trait isn't a huge bonus, flyers find it a lot harder to gain Obscure than infantry etc. CoD also allows everyone to always hit on a natural 6.
I've found that cutting lethality supports better maneuvering and raises the importance of the mission over killing, which I like.
Sherrypie wrote: Slayer, no. Cover is distinct from Obscuration. You get Cover, +1 for light or +2 for proper buildings, from certain things, whereas you get Obscuration from anything physically in the way.
Yeah because what 8th edition needs is more - to hit modifiers to stack.
The rules aren't bad persay but they would really be much more appropriate if 40K used D10's or D12's or such. Having everything reduced to hitting on 6's regardless of their stats isn't good for balance when GW insist on pricing weapons on BS.
Sure, but with that being highly unlikely for a change, adding changes that make units more survivable sounds good to me.
Let's remember those modifiers usually benefit other units than the current top dogs: in dense cities Alaitoc is often so close anyway their trait isn't a huge bonus, flyers find it a lot harder to gain Obscure than infantry etc. CoD also allows everyone to always hit on a natural 6.
I've found that cutting lethality supports better maneuvering and raises the importance of the mission over killing, which I like.
it's more guard always hitting on 6's while paying BS 4 points vrs marines hitting on 6's paying BS 3 points are getting a raw deal.
8th edition terrain sucks, totally agree, I do accept thar some lethality in the game could do with being turned down.
Does citys of death do it the best way for balance I don't think so.
Wayniac wrote: So you are admitting you're a bully and then saying that it's okay for you to break the law (destroy someone else's property) because you somehow justify it.
Got it. I don't think there's anything else to discuss here. You and your entire store/community sound like a gang of thugs.
No, Wayne, it's just Chinatown.
You help me understand how you have done something positive in the gaming community before you throw around more trash. Still waiting on a response.
What does that matter? You think that doing "something positive in the gaming community" means that people can't criticize what you've done or say that it's poor quality? Because that's essentially what you are saying: If you put any sort of effort into something, nobody has a right to complain (lest you abuse/make fun of them)
No Wayne, it means the people who criticize tournament organizers all live empty, shallow lives and their complaints speak to a void in human companionship. Their opinions don't matter because they contribute nothing to the greater gaming community and their only motivation is to diminish the accomplishments of others. The community would benefit from taking active measures to identify these weirdos and prevent them from being involved in any form of organized play.
Give me a reason to think I'm wrong.
So again basically "If you contribute to the community you are above critique"
More like, know the person giving the critique. Not all opinions are equal. The loudest voices tend to be the least worth listening to.
All opinions have the right to be voiced. And those who think themselves above other's opinions are quite frankly the worst kind of people.
Having read techsoldaten here and in many other threads I'm genuinely confused if he's a troll or he really believes in what he wrotes. I'm puzzled.
And at least by the picks I have seen I can't say LVO terrain was subpar. As I said, the tables lacked scatter terrain and a little of area terrain but speaking about "Big" terrain pieces those tables where absolutely on the average.
Wayniac I think you are just being unfair by how much you are displeased by ITC and Warhammer big tournaments. And to be honest if you dislike those things so much, and you believe Warhammer shouldn't have "serious tournaments"... why even waste your time writting in this kind of threads instead of more hobby ones like painting, background, etc...? There hasn't been a single tournament or competitive related thread without you here to write how Warhammer should never be about big tournaments and ITC is killing the hobby.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/15 21:07:21
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
