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...Tenebrous curse has no requirement to interact with phobos, dude, it is a debuff. It is WC6 Doombolt, wtf do you want?

Hey whatsup you know those 30 ork boys you were going to da jump at me well they are now physically incapable of reaching me with a charge.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I didn't think it was possible to make a psychic rule set worse than the GK santic and Librarius. GW has in fact made it so.

Phobos restrictions make this a complete bust unit choice. The best power in the set might be able to give you a command point every turn but the unit costs nearly as much as a loyal 32. GW rules team needs to hire me. They suck so bad at their jobs.

The librarian costs 180 points? I thought the primaris librarian cost like...100 points.

Which would be just over half the cost of the loyal 32.

None of the debuffs are bad psychic powers. The buffs are only bad because they are limited in units to cast them on.

The libby will be roughly 120-140 points with a 7 power level.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
...Tenebrous curse has no requirement to interact with phobos, dude, it is a debuff. It is WC6 Doombolt, wtf do you want?

Defensive buffs
Double moves

You know - spells that matter.

A thunderfire cannon does what that spell does and it kills things too. Worthless unit.

 Xenomancers wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I didn't think it was possible to make a psychic rule set worse than the GK santic and Librarius. GW has in fact made it so.

Phobos restrictions make this a complete bust unit choice. The best power in the set might be able to give you a command point every turn but the unit costs nearly as much as a loyal 32. GW rules team needs to hire me. They suck so bad at their jobs.

The librarian costs 180 points? I thought the primaris librarian cost like...100 points.

Which would be just over half the cost of the loyal 32.

None of the debuffs are bad psychic powers. The buffs are only bad because they are limited in units to cast them on.

The libby will be roughly 120-140 points with a 7 power level.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
...Tenebrous curse has no requirement to interact with phobos, dude, it is a debuff. It is WC6 Doombolt, wtf do you want?

Defensive buffs
Double moves

You know - spells that matter.

If I learned any lesson from getting freaked out by power levels during the ork buggy release, it's "don't pretend GW actually has a rule they follow for points to PL".

Even at 120 points I like this guy for Hallucinate/mind raid swapping out hallucinate for tenebrous when the opposing army has something in it that tenebrous feths over.

 Xenomancers wrote:
1. Phobos units are infiltrators - they will always be the closest unit to the enemy. 0/5
2. Reroll hits and ignore cover COULD be good. TOO BAD the only unit that can benifit is AP-0 bolt guns. 1/5

Eliminators are Phobos too. Both powers are nice on them.

 Crimson wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
1. Phobos units are infiltrators - they will always be the closest unit to the enemy. 0/5
2. Reroll hits and ignore cover COULD be good. TOO BAD the only unit that can benifit is AP-0 bolt guns. 1/5

Eliminators are Phobos too. Both powers are nice on them.

Max squad size 3.

 Crimson wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
1. Phobos units are infiltrators - they will always be the closest unit to the enemy. 0/5
2. Reroll hits and ignore cover COULD be good. TOO BAD the only unit that can benifit is AP-0 bolt guns. 1/5

Eliminators are Phobos too. Both powers are nice on them.

If eliminators could go to like 6 or 9 I'd think it would probably be worthwhile to bring them with a libby babysitter.If you're looking at just bringing three though..just take a vindicare instead.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
1. Phobos units are infiltrators - they will always be the closest unit to the enemy. 0/5
2. Reroll hits and ignore cover COULD be good. TOO BAD the only unit that can benifit is AP-0 bolt guns. 1/5

Eliminators are Phobos too. Both powers are nice on them.

Max squad size 3.

It is a pretty safe bet that it will change to six eventually. Same as Inceptors and Aggressors.

 Xenomancers wrote:



1. Phobos units are infiltrators - they will always be the closest unit to the enemy. 0/5
2. Reroll hits and ignore cover COULD be good. TOO BAD the only unit that can benifit is AP-0 bolt guns. 1/5
3. Reivers DONT have phobos keyword AND Reivers are even worse than Vangaurds. PLUS THEY CAN DEEP STRIKE ANYWAYS.
4. The horror but with conditions where it does nothing - 2/5
5. Phobos makes this useless 1/5
6. Decent - mortal wounds and CP for success - still pretty bad considering it has to be used on a character and only does 1 mortal wound max.

I swear. GW is friggen oblivious when it comes to power level of spells. They don't even understand the same power in different codex can't be conditional when one is not for no trade off.

I thought the snipers were a unit? They are the ones I don't want people to shoot. So 5/5 now? And rerolling sniper hits is where I wanted it 5/5 now? And Rivers are already being discussed to be reconed with Phobos, and Deepstrike was nerfed?

Look your glass is half empty. Not sure what you were looking for. I think its a good list. And gives several pretty good tools I'll use in my Marines. You do you though.

LEt's also not forget - chapter masters already reroll all hits.

And Gman rerolls all wounds. What does that have to do? Now your assigning a Chaptermaster to sit with them. THis guy can do it within 18, and might be cheaper.

Reemule wrote:
And Gman rerolls all wounds. What does that have to do? Now your assigning a Chapter master to sit with them. THis guy can do it within 18, and might be cheaper.

Or you could just deploy with your whole army in a reroll hits bubble...just saying.

edited by ingtaer.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Reemule wrote:
And Gman rerolls all wounds. What does that have to do? Now your assigning a Chapter master to sit with them. THis guy can do it within 18, and might be cheaper.

Or you could just deploy with your whole army in a reroll hits bubble...just saying.

And then lose on objectives, and also be incredibly vulnerable to the handful of "Affects units within X inches" abilities.

 Xenomancers wrote:


A thunderfire cannon does what that spell does and it kills things too. Worthless unit.

You did note that the spell works on Titanic units, comes on a character that can't be shot off the board trivially, does as much or more damage to anything that matters (not a lot from either, granted), and doesn't use CP? And that this gives you a second shot at stopping something nasty from moving, potentially locking down two big assault threats, if you really wanted to go down that route?

It's not an invisible death star, obviously, but surely you can see potential uses for the powers.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Reemule wrote:
And Gman rerolls all wounds. What does that have to do? Now your assigning a Chapter master to sit with them. THis guy can do it within 18, and might be cheaper.

Or you could just deploy with your whole army in a reroll hits bubble...just saying.

And then lose on objectives, and also be incredibly vulnerable to the handful of "Affects units within X inches" abilities.

Loyal 32 is on objectives dude. Get real. Be practical. If your powerful units are holding objectives it's a double bonus to kill them. Having your important units in an aura is not difficult. Plus there are any number of stratagems I could get reroll hits to that unit already from the garbage list of marine stratagems.

If I was to make a list of powers marines did not need. Rerolling hits would be first on the list and any realistic marine player would tell you the same thing. 2nd on the list would have been conditional powers that are worse than xenos counterparts - cause we already have that in librarius. What marines need is mobility and defense because get get none of that through their units own stats.
A 5+ FNP
A reroll saves power
Move and ignore penalties to shooting
Ignore slay effects of plasma
Extending range of auras

THESE ARE POWERS MARINES NEED. Not BS gimmicky crap that our stratagems already do.

My friend is discussing giving his future Space Wolf Vanguard Librarian The Temporal Coridor, move average of 19.5 inches charge, and get his deed of legend done quick.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Reemule wrote:
And Gman rerolls all wounds. What does that have to do? Now your assigning a Chapter master to sit with them. THis guy can do it within 18, and might be cheaper.

Or you could just deploy with your whole army in a reroll hits bubble...just saying.

So, is it super easy to have everything in Aura range, or do you need a power that extends their range?

Consistency, please.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Reemule wrote:
And Gman rerolls all wounds. What does that have to do? Now your assigning a Chapter master to sit with them. THis guy can do it within 18, and might be cheaper.

Or you could just deploy with your whole army in a reroll hits bubble...just saying.

What happens if you lack enough self awareness to the point you mistake your opinions as facts?

Reemule wrote:
My friend is discussing giving his future Space Wolf Vanguard Librarian The Temporal Coridor, move average of 19.5 inches charge, and get his deed of legend done quick.

I don't even know what that is but it's obviously worse than taking a libby on a bike getting 20" automatic move. Part I love the most about this is the unit MUST advance. LOL. Only marine powers get garbage conditions like this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JNAProductions wrote:
So, is it super easy to have everything in Aura range, or do you need a power that extends their range?

Consistency, please.

Spells that work with how an army plays are good.

Is it just me or anyone else baffled by how strong the new discipline is? Most of them have two part effects - not even eldar has that.

GW needs to tone down on the codex creep for sure.

 skchsan wrote:
Is it just me or anyone else baffled by how strong the new discipline is? Most of them have two part effects - not even eldar has that.

GW needs to tone down on the codex creep for sure.

I don't see creep with these at all. They could have gone to invisibility territory, but they didn't.

 skchsan wrote:
Is it just me or anyone else baffled by how strong the new discipline is? Most of them have two part effects - not even eldar has that.

GW needs to tone down on the codex creep for sure.

Yeah it's pretty obvious when you compare hallucination to the horror. And Quicken to temporal vortex. Except its the exact opposite of what you are saying - they are worse versions of previous powers.

 skchsan wrote:
Is it just me or anyone else baffled by how strong the new discipline is? Most of them have two part effects - not even eldar has that.

GW needs to tone down on the codex creep for sure.

Those "two parts" powers tend to be strictly inferior to other existing powers, so no, nothing to see here.

It's an alright discipline IMO. Nothing groundbreakingly good or something you'd ally in that libby just for, but if he is not much more expensive than a normal libby I think he would be pretty decent. Combine him with a thunderfire cannon and you can effectively stop two units from being able to play the game + he has can snag you a couple of command points here and there.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
It's an alright discipline IMO. Nothing groundbreakingly good or something you'd ally in that libby just for, but if he is not much more expensive than a normal libby I think he would be pretty decent. Combine him with a thunderfire cannon and you can effectively stop two units from being able to play the game + he has can snag you a couple of command points here and there.

Can you name me a worse discipline?

 Xenomancers wrote:
I'm a realist. Garbage powers are garbage. To defend garbage makes you garbage.

Clear violation of Rule #1. I don't even know why you're trying to say it's not.

 Xenomancers wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Reemule wrote:
And Gman rerolls all wounds. What does that have to do? Now your assigning a Chapter master to sit with them. THis guy can do it within 18, and might be cheaper.

Or you could just deploy with your whole army in a reroll hits bubble...just saying.

I'm a realist. Garbage powers are garbage. To defend garbage makes you garbage.

Apparently rule 1 stops applying when you just violate it blatantly enough.

It is not a violation of rule 1. It is not a personal attack. It is a broad statement about those who defend garbage content and garbage is hardly an insult anyways. It is a substitution for an insult. More of a joke.

Except it isn't the worst discipline ever, and arguably better than Librarius. Therefore you're actually defending your garbage points. Powers 3-6 definitely have great use, and if you can't see that you've really proven you don't know what the issues with Marine armies are. Which, to be fair, you've proven time and time again.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I didn't think it was possible to make a psychic rule set worse than the GK santic and Librarius. GW has in fact made it so.

Phobos restrictions make this a complete bust unit choice. The best power in the set might be able to give you a command point every turn but the unit costs nearly as much as a loyal 32. GW rules team needs to hire me. They suck so bad at their jobs.

Bare in mind that this is most likely from the Shadow spear index. Remember in that same index for chaos the marines are locked in for their options. But if I'm wrong, fingers crossed I'm not, I will happily lose my mind with you

I’m cool with the chaos powers being awesome and powerful. However, let’s talk regular marines for a minute... isn’t it NICE seeing the salt of these players? Seeing them be so upset their chapters can’t stack up against us Xenos/chaos? I say if these powers are even somewhat OK, we need to find ways/loop holes/email GW to get those nerfing FAQS started! Who is with me?

Speaking for myself:
I'm happy with Obscuration. There's a couple powers that currently are duds but I definitely can see a place for most of them.