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Pain4Pleasure wrote: Listen kid, if it doesn’t compare in competetive then the powers can be as crappy as they wanna be cause you’ll be using them for fun not to necessarily destroy your opponent. So have at it. And at LVO it’s been stated even in the big tourney some people enter just for the fun of it. Also, DRUKHARI.. are a top tier. Eldar as in eldar as a whole. Smh this is so sad that this is what this game has come to.. whT kinda of players are we allowing to grace the presence of our board tops?
Whu?
I don’t know what’s being said here, but we’re just pointing out that the powers here aren’t quite as good as the OP is making them out to be. I don’t play tournaments at all, these powers seem okay (Skryer’s gaze strikes me as the most useful) but nothing game-breaking or destroying. Wouldn’t mind having access to these or mind much having them used against me.
Togusa wrote: I just noticed that on their leaked data sheet. Interesting, I wonder if this is the first example of a mistake discovered before the model even releases, or if jes was speaking from a fluff and not necessarily a rules perspective?
It is not a mistake, the Suppressor armour obviously is completely different. And did Jes really say they're all Phobos, instead of them all being Vanguard? I really don't remember that bit.
So check botu 5:09 and again at 19.025 on. That's where he discusses them.
My play group is 3 people and none of us learned from other players, we just kinda started. So I don't really have people saying "you should listen to this guy for X reason"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/06 00:50:55
My play group is 3 people and none of us learned from other players, we just kinda started. So I don't really have people saying "you should listen to this guy for X reason"
OK. Jes Goodwin is Games Workshop's legendary miniature designer and concept artist. He and John Blanche have basically created the whole aesthetic of 40K.
It's a decent enough discipline and it seems way more entertaining than the Librarius Discipline.
Shrouding and Temporal Corridor are very situational though (even without the Phobos-restrictions) and I can't see myself use them very often.
Scryer's Gaze is decent enough, especially on a full unit on Infiltrators, but we can get re-rolls from other sources.
Hallucination, Tenebrous Curse and Mind Raid are all pretty good though (and hilarious), and can't wait to use them.
Togusa wrote: I just noticed that on their leaked data sheet. Interesting, I wonder if this is the first example of a mistake discovered before the model even releases, or if jes was speaking from a fluff and not necessarily a rules perspective?
It is not a mistake, the Suppressor armour obviously is completely different. And did Jes really say they're all Phobos, instead of them all being Vanguard? I really don't remember that bit.
Well, it looked like Marines had something decent for a minute there, should have known that if it looked good I couldn't possibly be reading it right.
Shrouding is interesting. It would be really good if it could protect heavy support options that normally get shot off the table first, sadly you can't cast it on anything really worth protecting with it.
Tenebrous Curse and Hallucinations are interesting. If you're not playing Cities of Death rules (6 always hits under that rule set) Primaris now have three different ways to prevent non-flamer overwatch from being viable, and slowing down stuff like the absurd Knight movement has potential as well.
The others are meh or need a ruling on how they actually work. If Temporal Corridor does stop you from charging/shooting then it's kind of worthless on troops that can already Advance Deploy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/06 01:46:30
Question - what happens if you put shrouding on a Character, he’s not the closest unit, but the enemy has a weapon that can snipe characters (“Can target characters even if they are not the closest unit”)
Are they protected or not?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/06 04:49:43
Stormonu wrote: Question - what happens if you put shrouding on a Character, he’s not the closest unit, but the enemy has a weapon that can snipe characters (“Can target characters even if they are not the closest unit”)
Are they protected or not?
You'd be able to target the character. The sniper weapon says "may target the character even if they're not the closest unit", not "ignore the targeting restrictions of the Character keyword", so I'd think applying the text of the Character keyword again wouldn't make the sniper rule suddenly stop working.
Togusa wrote: I just noticed that on their leaked data sheet. Interesting, I wonder if this is the first example of a mistake discovered before the model even releases, or if jes was speaking from a fluff and not necessarily a rules perspective?
It is not a mistake, the Suppressor armour obviously is completely different. And did Jes really say they're all Phobos, instead of them all being Vanguard? I really don't remember that bit.
Well, it looked like Marines had something decent for a minute there, should have known that if it looked good I couldn't possibly be reading it right.
Shrouding is interesting. It would be really good if it could protect heavy support options that normally get shot off the table first, sadly you can't cast it on anything really worth protecting with it.
Tenebrous Curse and Hallucinations are interesting. If you're not playing Cities of Death rules (6 always hits under that rule set) Primaris now have three different ways to prevent non-flamer overwatch from being viable, and slowing down stuff like the absurd Knight movement has potential as well.
The others are meh or need a ruling on how they actually work. If Temporal Corridor does stop you from charging/shooting then it's kind of worthless on troops that can already Advance Deploy.
Hallucination does not prevent overwatch. Unless specified the overwatch roll is not affected by any modifier.
Togusa wrote: I just noticed that on their leaked data sheet. Interesting, I wonder if this is the first example of a mistake discovered before the model even releases, or if jes was speaking from a fluff and not necessarily a rules perspective?
It is not a mistake, the Suppressor armour obviously is completely different. And did Jes really say they're all Phobos, instead of them all being Vanguard? I really don't remember that bit.
Well, it looked like Marines had something decent for a minute there, should have known that if it looked good I couldn't possibly be reading it right.
Shrouding is interesting. It would be really good if it could protect heavy support options that normally get shot off the table first, sadly you can't cast it on anything really worth protecting with it.
Tenebrous Curse and Hallucinations are interesting. If you're not playing Cities of Death rules (6 always hits under that rule set) Primaris now have three different ways to prevent non-flamer overwatch from being viable, and slowing down stuff like the absurd Knight movement has potential as well.
The others are meh or need a ruling on how they actually work. If Temporal Corridor does stop you from charging/shooting then it's kind of worthless on troops that can already Advance Deploy.
Hallucination does not prevent overwatch. Unless specified the overwatch roll is not affected by any modifier.
Then my meta has been playing that wrong for months.
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greyknight12 wrote: These powers are such pale shadows of their former selves (or the spells from 7th that they share names with).
But what the feth is up with “stealthy space marines”, it’s literally the opposite of the effect they have historically always gone for.
Marines finally caught on that this is 8th ed and standing out in the open is suicidal.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/06 13:05:25
So, I like my new primaris army more than I like my old SM army. Granted they were salamander and partially useless against certain armies, but still. Is the new keyword mean it's a different army than standard? SO like I need a new det to use these guys?
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: So, I like my new primaris army more than I like my old SM army. Granted they were salamander and partially useless against certain armies, but still. Is the new keyword mean it's a different army than standard? SO like I need a new det to use these guys?
Affirm. No mixing and matching marines. It makes them even less viable. Anyone who says different is wrong
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: So, I like my new primaris army more than I like my old SM army. Granted they were salamander and partially useless against certain armies, but still. Is the new keyword mean it's a different army than standard? SO like I need a new det to use these guys?
Affirm. No mixing and matching marines. It makes them even less viable. Anyone who says different is wrong
I'm preeeeetty sure they said they would be available to all chapters, but I can't source that at the moment. Would you be able to source your statement?
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: So, I like my new primaris army more than I like my old SM army. Granted they were salamander and partially useless against certain armies, but still. Is the new keyword mean it's a different army than standard? SO like I need a new det to use these guys?
Affirm. No mixing and matching marines. It makes them even less viable. Anyone who says different is wrong
I'm preeeeetty sure they said they would be available to all chapters, but I can't source that at the moment. Would you be able to source your statement?
I'm pretty sure his source is a "rear-facing beast of burden" given that the crux of his comment seems to be the viability of mixed marines.
They're keyworded to fit snugly in any codex Marine detachment from their datasheets. The only thing which would prevent such a choice is some additional rule, which I dont see happening.
How they'll interact with BA/DA/SW/DW is the open question.
These powers actually look like they'll fit in pretty good with the 3 psycher bros detachment.
Halving movement strat and then follow up with the SW power that does mortals for each point your M is less than 2d6.
The -1 leadership power followed by mind wipe?
I think they are really bad (except for the halving movement) unless there is some cheeky way to give units the phobos keyword (strat or something). I'd rate the powers SW > DA > BA > Phobos > SM?
I still think that SW and DA are intentionally bad since their primarchs are "coming soon." Abaddon being primarch lite just swings the balance too far in the CSM direction and I think he is going to sell really well pushing GW to release more large center piece models (I hope because this is all that will save my guys but seeing as there haven't been any leaks we're at least 6-9 months out...)
Sterling191 wrote: They're keyworded to fit snugly in any codex Marine detachment from their datasheets. The only thing which would prevent such a choice is some additional rule, which I dont see happening.
How they'll interact with BA/DA/SW/DW is the open question.
Considering that they posted pictures of Phobos armour in SW/BA/DA colours I'd say it's save to assume that they can be used in SW/BA/DA detachments without any issues.
GK won't get access, for sure. DW will probably get access since it just doesn't make sense not to give them access to Phobos armour, but there wasn't any indication that they will get access immediately.
I can see a Specialist detachment focussed on Phobos units (tbh I'd be VERY surprised if there wasn't one, it's the obvious thing to do) being in Vigilus 2. You'd be able to mash in other stuff, but only the Phobos units would benefit from it - just like all the other Specialist detachments.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/06 18:18:53
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: So, I like my new primaris army more than I like my old SM army. Granted they were salamander and partially useless against certain armies, but still. Is the new keyword mean it's a different army than standard? SO like I need a new det to use these guys?
Affirm. No mixing and matching marines. It makes them even less viable. Anyone who says different is wrong
I'm preeeeetty sure they said they would be available to all chapters, but I can't source that at the moment. Would you be able to source your statement?
I'm pretty sure his source is a "rear-facing beast of burden" given that the crux of his comment seems to be the viability of mixed marines.
Hey that’s rude, my source is the fact that why would we give marines something to improve their units with! It’s viable... in my world
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: So, I like my new primaris army more than I like my old SM army. Granted they were salamander and partially useless against certain armies, but still. Is the new keyword mean it's a different army than standard? SO like I need a new det to use these guys?
Affirm. No mixing and matching marines. It makes them even less viable. Anyone who says different is wrong
I'm preeeeetty sure they said they would be available to all chapters, but I can't source that at the moment. Would you be able to source your statement?
I'm pretty sure his source is a "rear-facing beast of burden" given that the crux of his comment seems to be the viability of mixed marines.
Hey that’s rude, my source is the fact that why would we give marines something to improve their units with! It’s viable... in my world
It’s not a source, it’s your opinion.
If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: So, I like my new primaris army more than I like my old SM army. Granted they were salamander and partially useless against certain armies, but still. Is the new keyword mean it's a different army than standard? SO like I need a new det to use these guys?
Affirm. No mixing and matching marines. It makes them even less viable. Anyone who says different is wrong
I'm preeeeetty sure they said they would be available to all chapters, but I can't source that at the moment. Would you be able to source your statement?
I'm pretty sure his source is a "rear-facing beast of burden" given that the crux of his comment seems to be the viability of mixed marines.
Hey that’s rude, my source is the fact that why would we give marines something to improve their units with! It’s viable... in my world
It’s not a source, it’s your opinion.
Oh man, what seductive reasoning. Did you figure that out on your own or use the source of saying in my world to come to that deductive reasoning.
Considering that they posted pictures of Phobos armour in SW/BA/DA colours I'd say it's save to assume that they can be used in SW/BA/DA detachments without any issues.
GK won't get access, for sure. DW will probably get access since it just doesn't make sense not to give them access to Phobos armour, but there wasn't any indication that they will get access immediately.
I dont disagree with any of that, simply stating that there wasnt an official word (that I'd seen at least) as to how the Shadowspear units would mechanically interact with the non-Codex forces (beyond the capacity to take them as allies).
Considering that they posted pictures of Phobos armour in SW/BA/DA colours I'd say it's save to assume that they can be used in SW/BA/DA detachments without any issues.
GK won't get access, for sure. DW will probably get access since it just doesn't make sense not to give them access to Phobos armour, but there wasn't any indication that they will get access immediately.
I dont disagree with any of that, simply stating that there wasnt an official word (that I'd seen at least) as to how the Shadowspear units would mechanically interact with the non-Codex forces (beyond the capacity to take them as allies).
But do we have an official word that we can use them as any of the vanilla chapters? And how can mirrors be real when our eyes aren't real?
But do we have an official word that we can use them as any of the vanilla chapters?
Yes. They flat out said on the Facebook that SM/BA/DA/SW can use them. DW was not included on that list.
BuT fAcEbOoK iSnT aN oFfIcIaL RuLeS SoUrCe
I would think the War-Com article that shows an Infiltrator in SW, BA, and DA colors should be a pretty good indication. Especially since those images are likely pulled from the Codex Adeptus Astartes: Vanguard Space Marines.
But do we have an official word that we can use them as any of the vanilla chapters?
Yes. They flat out said on the Facebook that SM/BA/DA/SW can use them. DW was not included on that list.
BuT fAcEbOoK iSnT aN oFfIcIaL RuLeS SoUrCe
I would think the War-Com article that shows an Infiltrator in SW, BA, and DA colors should be a pretty good indication. Especially since those images are likely pulled from the Codex Adeptus Astartes: Vanguard Space Marines.
OH, really? And I would think that it's obvious I'm being sarcastic as I've pointed out the exact same thing.
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