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 Frazzled wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Elon Musk may be an idiot. Tesla may be a badly run company. That doesn't make the Tesla a bad car. If the Tesla is a bad car it doesn't make EVs a bad idea.

Killster has the way of it. A friend of mine loves his, primarily because of the ease of "refueling" and the driverless features.

Here's my only issue. If I want to go to a competition in Arkansas, and I live in Austin, I can't use an electric car. Once that is fixed and the price comes down then we are good to go.

Pretty much this. Your average citizen has to travel. Period. So our choice is either wait and skip travelling until EV catches up, or own a hybrid/ICE. That's it.


I guess you could always throw money down the drain on Greyhound, but that's just a stupid overexpenditure.

 Just Tony wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Elon Musk may be an idiot. Tesla may be a badly run company. That doesn't make the Tesla a bad car. If the Tesla is a bad car it doesn't make EVs a bad idea.

Killster has the way of it. A friend of mine loves his, primarily because of the ease of "refueling" and the driverless features.

Here's my only issue. If I want to go to a competition in Arkansas, and I live in Austin, I can't use an electric car. Once that is fixed and the price comes down then we are good to go.

Pretty much this. Your average citizen has to travel. Period. So our choice is either wait and skip travelling until EV catches up, or own a hybrid/ICE. That's it.


I guess you could always throw money down the drain on Greyhound, but that's just a stupid overexpenditure.

Greyhound is not going to let me carry a bags full of competition gear and ammo...

Depending on how the numbers work out, and how frequently you need to do a 1,000-mile round trip (and whether you're doing that drive in one go), it might be feasible to own an electric car for day-to-day commuting then hire something for the odd occasions.

I own a model 3, it's been great.

I hope a zombie apocalypse doesn't happen in the next 10 years, I'd really like to see what EVs are like in 2030. If they can double the average range and drop destination charing times down to like a quarter of what they are now and make them 5-10 minutes, I think EVs will really take off.

I'm probably not gonna be able to get into a model 3 before the end of june when the tax break goes down, so I think I'm gonna stick with my jeep for now and wait and save up for the Model Y, or the VW ID Buzz.

 Necros wrote:
I think EVs will really take off.

I don't think you meant it like this, but still:
https://lilium.com/

Why stop at cars...

 Necros wrote:
I hope a zombie apocalypse doesn't happen in the next 10 years, I'd really like to see what EVs are like in 2030. If they can double the average range and drop destination charing times down to like a quarter of what they are now and make them 5-10 minutes, I think EVs will really take off.

I'm probably not gonna be able to get into a model 3 before the end of june when the tax break goes down, so I think I'm gonna stick with my jeep for now and wait and save up for the Model Y, or the VW ID Buzz.

As I'm finishing up school, I've been seeing, through the course of light project research, that there is a lot of interest in the VW bus coming in a couple years. What remains to be seen, IMO, is whether that interest is due to its electricness, or it being the latest throwback model vehicle.

But as you note, the thing holding them back, for now, is range and charge times. The problem is, that is a very hard nut to crack. . . . If you've watched every episode of "James May's Cars of the People" you will have seen the episode where he talks about EVs, and how the first ones from 1908 or so, have the same range as the modern EVs do. Getting performance and distance out of a battery is a huge obstacle at this point, and the engineers who solve that problem will become ridiculously rich (most likely). I say that, because many of the other ideas that I personally have seen have been "shot down" by various people in the industry. For instance, in an EV, treating batteries in a way that is more like gasoline: on a long journey, the EV driver pulls into a service station, pulls up to the "pump", pays, and an attendent unhooks a couple bits and bobs, and does a full battery swap. The dead battery goes onto the charging station that the fresh one just came off of, and you're essentially refueled. Something akin to a jumbo sized cordless drill battery setup.

The monetary investment in that may (or may not) be required to make EVs more viable in a country as large as the US may be one of the largest hold-ups in the adoption of EVs. They may work great on an individual level for people who live in SF, or NYC or similar places that do have some charging stations and other things available right now, but they do seem to work best for those people who live in those places and rarely leave those places except via other modes of transport (ie, flying).

 Andrew1975 wrote:


Barely is subjective I guess. A Halbach Array can take many forms and have different arrangements.

Dude, you didn't even know your Tesla had a HA or even knew what one was five posts ago. You have customs data of Tesla importing huge quantities of magnets from China, you have several videos where you can look at the M3 motor cross-section and make a good guess at it. There's a good net consensus on the M3 NdFeB content which would put it top of the class. If your blind shilling for that company doesn't let you admit it it's ok, neither of us particularly care about magnet use (which ultimately is an economic rather than environmental choice).

Do you know what a recall is, its when a company has to recall their products because there is a major issue. ALL car companies do it, some quite a bit more than others, with cars that they have been making for years and years.....Do you know how many recalls Tesla has had?

And why is a new company pushing the envelope of automotive engineering have so little recalls?

Tesla Suspension Breakage: It’s Not The Crime, It’s The Coverup
https://dailykanban.com/2016/06/tesla-suspension-breakage-not-crime-coverup/

But of course your article stops counting at 2016, since then things have changed quite a bit.

Tesla recalls almost half the cars it ever built, as shares tank and Musk's billions shrink
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/tesla-recalls-almost-half-cars-it-ever-built-shares-tank-n861421

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:

I've already admitted repeatedly they Tesla has infrastructure and support issues. Many legacy car companies do when they release a new vehicle. Tesla is having an even harder time because they are a smaller company, they will grow into it.

No, they are a garbage company..

I can see the normal FUD circlejerk is alive and well here too

My Model 3 is a better car than my Audi A6. It's about as fast as my Viper. I have no complaints, and patiently awaiting that "tesla killer" that everyone seems to have in the works...for the last 5 years. But hey, if we can get plastic sisters, I guess anything is possible.

jouso wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:


Barely is subjective I guess. A Halbach Array can take many forms and have different arrangements.

Dude, you didn't even know your Tesla had a HA or even knew what one was five posts ago. You have customs data of Tesla importing huge quantities of magnets from China, you have several videos where you can look at the M3 motor cross-section and make a good guess at it. There's a good net consensus on the M3 NdFeB content which would put it top of the class. If your blind shilling for that company doesn't let you admit it it's ok, neither of us particularly care about magnet use (which ultimately is an economic rather than environmental choice).

Do you know what a recall is, its when a company has to recall their products because there is a major issue. ALL car companies do it, some quite a bit more than others, with cars that they have been making for years and years.....Do you know how many recalls Tesla has had?

And why is a new company pushing the envelope of automotive engineering have so little recalls?

Tesla Suspension Breakage: It’s Not The Crime, It’s The Coverup
https://dailykanban.com/2016/06/tesla-suspension-breakage-not-crime-coverup/

But of course your article stops counting at 2016, since then things have changed quite a bit.

Tesla recalls almost half the cars it ever built, as shares tank and Musk's billions shrink
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/tesla-recalls-almost-half-cars-it-ever-built-shares-tank-n861421

DUUUUDE!, You have no idea what I know. I know that pretty much every argument you have put together has been baseless crap. unfounded and unsitable. Yes there have been recall, but in comparison they have been minimal as I showed you in the rport on recalls. Should I list how many times Ford has recalled their F-150, a truck thay hve been making since God knows when........you would think after a while they would get it right, some of the trucks have been recallled 4 times, sometimes to fix the recalled fix! So yeah, i'm going to give a new company a little room on a new product that has had some minor issues. You might as well be telling me Teslas catch on fire, because that appears to be the level of knowledge and insight you express in your argument.

And you can list raw tonnage of rare earth all you want. I've shown you that my model 3 uses about 25% of the material that other manufacturers use to attain the same level of performance. Your one (spurious ) article says they use about 4 pounds if you extrapolate the cost of "exotic materials" vs cost per ton.

Here's my only issue. If I want to go to a competition in Arkansas, and I live in Austin, I can't use an electric car. Once that is fixed and the price comes down then we are good to go.

Most EVs don't have great charging networks, but I bet you could get there on the Tesla Supercharging network.https://www.tesla.com/supercharger

And thats just official Tesla stations, that doesn't include the destination chargers that some restaurants, hotels and parking garages have.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ncshooter426 wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:

I've already admitted repeatedly they Tesla has infrastructure and support issues. Many legacy car companies do when they release a new vehicle. Tesla is having an even harder time because they are a smaller company, they will grow into it.

No, they are a garbage company..

I can see the normal FUD circlejerk is alive and well here too

My Model 3 is a better car than my Audi A6. It's about as fast as my Viper. I have no complaints, and patiently awaiting that "tesla killer" that everyone seems to have in the works...for the last 5 years. But hey, if we can get plastic sisters, I guess anything is possible.

Here is the thing, even if someone made the Tesla Killer they are always talking about....until they have a charging network, its still not as good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Depending on how the numbers work out, and how frequently you need to do a 1,000-mile round trip (and whether you're doing that drive in one go), it might be feasible to own an electric car for day-to-day commuting then hire something for the odd occasions.

I used to drive from Mobile Alabama to Cleveland and back for work. usually about 12 hours each way. I would stop for gas and food along the way. I don't think it would be so different with my Tesla. Maybe I'd take my time at food stops a little more to let the car charge, but I don't think it would add a whole lot of time. At 310 miles a charge Id have to stop at least 4 times probably more as if you drive over 80MPH it really does use electricity much more.....like significantly. The trip would cost maybe maybe $40 vs the $150 it cost me in gas, but it would take longer and have more stops....but its more than possible. Plus with EAP driving for me, it would be much more relaxed.

 ncshooter426 wrote:

I can see the normal FUD circlejerk is alive and well here too

My Model 3 is a better car than my Audi A6. It's about as fast as my Viper. I have no complaints, and patiently awaiting that "tesla killer" that everyone seems to have in the works...for the last 5 years. But hey, if we can get plastic sisters, I guess anything is possible.

My comments have never been about the cars themselves. . . The "unrollable" SUV seems great for what it is. The Model 3 appears to push most of the right buttons. . . that doesn't absolve the simple facts that the company cannot meet demand, as evidenced by wait times that many people must go through https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a26948744/tesla-model-3-deliveries-delays/ (and note, that article is only talking about the model 3). Producing a good product doesn't absolve the company of poor business practices. That is now, and has been my criticism of Tesla ITT.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 ncshooter426 wrote:

I can see the normal FUD circlejerk is alive and well here too

My Model 3 is a better car than my Audi A6. It's about as fast as my Viper. I have no complaints, and patiently awaiting that "tesla killer" that everyone seems to have in the works...for the last 5 years. But hey, if we can get plastic sisters, I guess anything is possible.

My comments have never been about the cars themselves. . . The "unrollable" SUV seems great for what it is. The Model 3 appears to push most of the right buttons. . . that doesn't absolve the simple facts that the company cannot meet demand, as evidenced by wait times that many people must go through https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a26948744/tesla-model-3-deliveries-delays/ (and note, that article is only talking about the model 3). Producing a good product doesn't absolve the company of poor business practices. That is now, and has been my criticism of Tesla ITT.

The company is such a dumpster fire that they have created so much demand that they can't meet it......yep thats just a terrible problem to have......seriously? I mean I get being upset about repair times. but delivery times for a new product that is in high demand? Most investors are pissed Tesla is stilll putting money into growth, so much so that they don't make a profit. As a company you don't want to over invest in production either.

The production problem they are having with the original layout of the $35000 Tesla is that it would have required another assembly line to produce the cars with a different interior configuration. They have since scratched this plan and are software limiting a much better version of the car, this has streamlined production and actually gives people a better product.

 Andrew1975 wrote:


The company is such a dumpster fire that they have created so much demand that they can't meet it......yep thats just a terrible problem to have......seriously? I mean I get being upset about repair times. but delivery times for a new product that is in high demand? Most investors are pissed Tesla is stilll putting money into growth, so much so that they don't make a profit. As a company you don't want to over invest in production either.

Having stock-out is almost NEVER a good thing. . . And yeah, people are upset about wait times. . . to the point that they've brought lawsuits https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/25/reuters-america-tesla-elon-musk-win-dismissal-of-lawsuit-over-model-3-production.html even though it has been dismissed, it should be clear to even you that there are people who are unhappy about lag times in orders.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:


The company is such a dumpster fire that they have created so much demand that they can't meet it......yep thats just a terrible problem to have......seriously? I mean I get being upset about repair times. but delivery times for a new product that is in high demand? Most investors are pissed Tesla is stilll putting money into growth, so much so that they don't make a profit. As a company you don't want to over invest in production either.

Having stock-out is almost NEVER a good thing. . . And yeah, people are upset about wait times. . . to the point that they've brought lawsuits https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/25/reuters-america-tesla-elon-musk-win-dismissal-of-lawsuit-over-model-3-production.html even though it has been dismissed, it should be clear to even you that there are people who are unhappy about lag times in orders.

No I get that they are upset, but Tesla are pretty much right were they said they would be. https://cleantechnica.com/2018/03/02/tesla-model-3-actually-original-schedule/ Sure there were delays and things could have gone smoother, but for a relatively new company producing the first true mass produced EV.......people need to give them some slack. They have done, what the big legacy manufactures said couldn't be done....now they have all joined the race because Tesla led the way. That was Elon's goal in the first place, to get the other companies to start making better cars.

 Andrew1975 wrote:
Here is the thing, even if someone made the Tesla Killer they are always talking about....until they have a charging network, its still not as good.

Why would having a brand specific charging network be good? That sounds just wasteful. I've seen all kinds of charging station (on private and public parking spaces) that are compatible with all kinds of cars all around the city. What's the benefit from having a brand specific charging station if nobody else can use it?

That's be like having BMW/Tesla specific gas station and that sounds like a ridiculous idea and also sounds rather wasteful (especially coming from a company that wants to help with saving the planet). It's like Musk's hyperloop and tunnel idea vs. regular public transportation. Some people believe in it just because it came out of his brain but it's still just a stupid and inefficient idea.

Just throwing this out there... I ordered my Model 3 on a Tuesday, had it in my hands on Friday. Took a 1200 mile trip in it less than 24hrs after I took delivery

I only own like 50 shares of TSLA, so I'm not even a small fish compared to most holders. I do really enjoy the vision, and think the true power behind the company is going to be it's software and potentially CaaS (Car as a Service) model in the future.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mario wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:
Here is the thing, even if someone made the Tesla Killer they are always talking about....until they have a charging network, its still not as good.

Why would having a brand specific charging network be good? That sounds just wasteful. I've seen all kinds of charging station (on private and public parking spaces) that are compatible with all kinds of cars all around the city. What's the benefit from having a brand specific charging station if nobody else can use it?

That's be like having BMW/Tesla specific gas station and that sounds like a ridiculous idea and also sounds rather wasteful (especially coming from a company that wants to help with saving the planet). It's like Musk's hyperloop and tunnel idea vs. regular public transportation. Some people believe in it just because it came out of his brain but it's still just a stupid and inefficient idea.

Tesla already has the infrastructure for EV. While you've got other 3rd parties offering level 2 DC, Tesla SC's are superior in every respect. Anyone entering the EV arena either has to 1) build their own infrastructure or 2) utilize someone else's. While Tesla is pretty closed to anyone but them using their grid, they have stated that a leasing-style program would be something to consider for other makers in the future. Barring that, you're relying on Chargepoint or the like to have a solid infrastructure... which really they don't outside of heavy urban areas.

Posche/Audi/VW already have their own chargers built (some out front of the Porsche NA HQ currently) for the Taycan since they're 800v, but have already run into the country-wide infrastructure problem. Note that the only time these chargers are really relevant is on long trips -- 95% of the time you'll be charging at home.

 ncshooter426 wrote:
Just throwing this out there... I ordered my Model 3 on a Tuesday, had it in my hands on Friday. Took a 1200 mile trip in it less than 24hrs after I took delivery

I only own like 50 shares of TSLA, so I'm not even a small fish compared to most holders. I do really enjoy the vision, and think the true power behind the company is going to be it's software and potentially CaaS (Car as a Service) model in the future.

I got my M3P in less than a week......but i'm not typical. I got a floor model with 1200 miles on it.....they took $6500 off the top for that. They had to ship it in for Kansas city. They then sent a model S to pick me up, I live an hour away from the store. Now I still don't have my spoiler that was supposed to come with the car, this annoys me, but I'm not going to cry about it, they will eventually send a ranger out to install it at my house. My brother got a flat when he was visiting a client, he was able to get into the clients parking lot and called Tesla. By the time he was done with his meeting a ranger had replaced the tire and put it on his account. Thats San Francisco for you though, thats Teslas backyard, but eventually thats the kind of service they want to do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mario wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:
Here is the thing, even if someone made the Tesla Killer they are always talking about....until they have a charging network, its still not as good.

Why would having a brand specific charging network be good? That sounds just wasteful. I've seen all kinds of charging station (on private and public parking spaces) that are compatible with all kinds of cars all around the city. What's the benefit from having a brand specific charging station if nobody else can use it?

That's be like having BMW/Tesla specific gas station and that sounds like a ridiculous idea and also sounds rather wasteful (especially coming from a company that wants to help with saving the planet). It's like Musk's hyperloop and tunnel idea vs. regular public transportation. Some people believe in it just because it came out of his brain but it's still just a stupid and inefficient idea.

Tesla built their chargers to their specs and paid for the installation. Graciously Tesla has said any car company can piggy back on them as long as they are willing to be an actual partner in the charging network, nobody has taken them up on it.https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-elon-musk-open-supercharger-network/

I'm still stuck on 8.5 firmware.. I want my new games damn it LOL

I did just see an advert on TV that I think will solve the world's problems. . .

Jaguar has the Electric I-Pace. . . . All the Jaaaag styling, without all the oil leaks!

 ncshooter426 wrote:
I'm still stuck on 8.5 firmware.. I want my new games damn it LOL

Really? That means you still have pole position!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
I did just see an advert on TV that I think will solve the world's problems. . .

Jaguar has the Electric I-Pace. . . . All the Jaaaag styling, without all the oil leaks!

I mean, if you absolutely hate Teslas and want to go electric its not a terrible car. Jaguar Tech and reliability has gotten much better since Tata (India) took them over (not that it could get much worse than it was). I think you are sacrificing quite a bit with the Jag, where do you even charge them? Sure most EV charging is done at home, but without remote charging as a least a reasonable option, I just couldn't justify buying one. It also lacks performance and range compared to a similarly priced Tesla. Not sure why it has a range of only 234 miles on a 90KWH battery. My Tesla get 310 on a 75KWH battery. Now Jaguar Service might be better.....well have to wait and see how they do with it.

VW (second largest auto manufacturer in the world) has a stiffy right now because they got 10,000 reservations in 24 hours for their new EV hatchback. They are saying they are overwhelmed with demand already as they only planned on building 30,000 of them. Model 3 had around 250,000 reservations in its first 24 hours.

 Andrew1975 wrote:


I mean, if you absolutely hate Teslas and want to go electric its not a terrible car. Jaguar Tech and reliability has gotten much better since Tata (India) took them over (not that it could get much worse than it was). I think you are sacrificing quite a bit with the Jag, where do you even charge them? Sure most EV charging is done at home, but without remote charging as a least a reasonable option, I just couldn't justify buying one. It also lacks performance and range compared to a similarly priced Tesla. Not sure why it has a range of only 234 miles on a 90KWH battery. My Tesla get 310 on a 75KWH battery. Now Jaguar Service might be better.....well have to wait and see how they do with it.

LMFAO. . . . it was a joke. but since you seemed to take it seriously, I think there is a very certain and select crowd of people who would go for an E-I-Pace, and I think they are the type who would pass on a Tesla, regardless of the quality over the Jag, because Jag, despite their. . . . history in terms of quality (hence the oil leak joke in my comment), does have a pedigree and history. Whether its current or not, there is still a certain "pride" in the name badge. . . these are people who roll up to country clubs and are parking alongside high end Land Rovers, E and S class Benzes, 5 and 700 series BMWs. IMO, the Tesla doesn't (yet) have the name presence/prestige or whatever people want to call it that a BMW or other luxury brand does.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:


I mean, if you absolutely hate Teslas and want to go electric its not a terrible car. Jaguar Tech and reliability has gotten much better since Tata (India) took them over (not that it could get much worse than it was). I think you are sacrificing quite a bit with the Jag, where do you even charge them? Sure most EV charging is done at home, but without remote charging as a least a reasonable option, I just couldn't justify buying one. It also lacks performance and range compared to a similarly priced Tesla. Not sure why it has a range of only 234 miles on a 90KWH battery. My Tesla get 310 on a 75KWH battery. Now Jaguar Service might be better.....well have to wait and see how they do with it.

LMFAO. . . . it was a joke. but since you seemed to take it seriously, I think there is a very certain and select crowd of people who would go for an E-I-Pace, and I think they are the type who would pass on a Tesla, regardless of the quality over the Jag, because Jag, despite their. . . . history in terms of quality (hence the oil leak joke in my comment), does have a pedigree and history. Whether its current or not, there is still a certain "pride" in the name badge. . . these are people who roll up to country clubs and are parking alongside high end Land Rovers, E and S class Benzes, 5 and 700 series BMWs. IMO, the Tesla doesn't (yet) have the name presence/prestige or whatever people want to call it that a BMW or other luxury brand does.

Well, no. I mean. I meant it seriously. Its not a terrible car. Its just got a long way to go, and it need more infrastructure. Which I think was your major complaint about Tesla. I've seen soooooooo many, legacy car manufactures bring out their "Tesla Killers" and they get a lot of media hype, while people love to poo poo Tesla and nit pick issues. But not one of the Tesla Killers even competes really, If the I pace or E tron were the leading edge of EVs, without a charging network, I wouldn't believe in EVs and I wouldn't have bought one, but that doesn't make them bad cars necessarily. However I think their capabilities put them in the range of secondary transportation, where you still have to have a second car. I-pace, E-tron, Tycan, Kona, the list goes on and on.

I'd also argue about brand recognition. Many times when I go to fancy places you will see them park the Tesla right out front with the Porshes and ferraris, the Tesla brand may not have the lineage, but it has the cool factor.

Growth takes a lot of energy, and Elon is definitely pushing the envelope, maybe too hard, too fast, but their are a lot of dogs on his heels. Tesla is either going to burn out or its going to just take over.

 Andrew1975 wrote:

Growth takes a lot of energy, and Elon is definitely pushing the envelope, maybe too hard, too fast, but their are a lot of dogs on his heels. Tesla is either going to burn out or its going to just take over.

IMHO, the thing that will push EVs forward is the one thing Tesla isn't doing: Racing. . . . Say what you will about Formula E, I don't much care to watch it myself, but I suspect that like Le Mans and other hard core racing series, Formula E will produce new tech/advancements that will make their way into passenger EVs sooner, than just producing cars alone. We can look at racing history, especially Le Mans, and see the vast bulk of improvements in performance and safety have come from racing.

Now, I won't call Audi and VW and other company's EV offerings "Tesla Killers" and I don't think they would call them that either, what I do think is that a company like Audi, when its marketing its E-Tron, or VW their ID Buzz, they aren't trying to "kill" Tesla, they are marketing to Audi and VW customers. And that is where the "science" of marketing comes in to play, those companies know through mountains of data the type of people that they get, which is largely true of basically any company that has a marketing department. That sort of term seems like something that journalists and media use moreso than the companies themselves (unless of course, say. . . Ford announces the release of a new EV that they are calling the Edison because everyone would instantly see the connection).

I think your final point is rather spot on. . . I took a scroll through the news tab of Yahoo Finance on Tesla, and without clicking on articles, the gist of the headlines were: "will tesla ever turn a profit?" "is tesla dragging Panasonic down?" "Tesla seeks court to drop lawsuit" (this last one is interesting, because the sub-heading is talking about shareholders suing the company over Musk's compensation). . . Meanwhile, as we've talked about VW bringing EVs to the market, and now M-B has made announcements as well, we know for certain that neither of those companies is going to bring EVs to market at the cost of profitability; they will generally make decisions, and use their infrastructure to ensure that they stay profitable.

 ncshooter426 wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:

I've already admitted repeatedly they Tesla has infrastructure and support issues. Many legacy car companies do when they release a new vehicle. Tesla is having an even harder time because they are a smaller company, they will grow into it.

No, they are a garbage company..

I can see the normal FUD circlejerk is alive and well here too

My Model 3 is a better car than my Audi A6. It's about as fast as my Viper. I have no complaints, and patiently awaiting that "tesla killer" that everyone seems to have in the works...for the last 5 years. But hey, if we can get plastic sisters, I guess anything is possible.

Gee Mr. Stark, couldn't you come up with a solution to the charging supply issues between building suits of armor?

 Andrew1975 wrote:


DUUUUDE!, You have no idea what I know. I know that pretty much every argument you have put together has been baseless crap. unfounded and unsitable.

Read your own posts on the subject. They convey the absolute opposite.

Tesla built their chargers to their specs and paid for the installation. Graciously Tesla has said any car company can piggy back on them as long as they are willing to be an actual partner in the charging network, nobody has taken them up on

Why would they sign for a proprietary system while there was a common system already in development?

jouso wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:


DUUUUDE!, You have no idea what I know. I know that pretty much every argument you have put together has been baseless crap. unfounded and unsitable.

Read your own posts on the subject. They convey the absolute opposite.

Right, says the guy who thinks rare earth metals are worse for the environment than oil.

Tesla built their chargers to their specs and paid for the installation. Graciously Tesla has said any car company can piggy back on them as long as they are willing to be an actual partner in the charging network, nobody has taken them up on

Why would they sign for a proprietary system while there was a common system already in development?

Because Tesla Chargers are already better and deployed. The bigger question is why not piggy back on an already successful and deployed system and make that system expand. Its like they really want to back Betamax, when VHS is already on the market.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Just Tony wrote:

 ncshooter426 wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:

I've already admitted repeatedly they Tesla has infrastructure and support issues. Many legacy car companies do when they release a new vehicle. Tesla is having an even harder time because they are a smaller company, they will grow into it.

No, they are a garbage company..

I can see the normal FUD circlejerk is alive and well here too

My Model 3 is a better car than my Audi A6. It's about as fast as my Viper. I have no complaints, and patiently awaiting that "tesla killer" that everyone seems to have in the works...for the last 5 years. But hey, if we can get plastic sisters, I guess anything is possible.

Gee Mr. Stark, couldn't you come up with a solution to the charging supply issues between building suits of armor?

Besides, he doesnt have a charging supply problem....because he has a Tesla, hes in the US. Could it be better, sure, but its getting there. Also there is this. https://www.plugshare.com/

I'm not jealous of him claiming to own three top dollar high performance cars, I'm skeptical. Though given GW's prices as of late, it might actually make sense that a multimillionaire would be on here.

A hybrid would be the best of both worlds I guess.
Not sure but I'll consider a BMW 235 xe next time. Its an all-wheel drive and a hybrid with about 230 PS (horse power).

 Just Tony wrote:

 ncshooter426 wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:

I've already admitted repeatedly they Tesla has infrastructure and support issues. Many legacy car companies do when they release a new vehicle. Tesla is having an even harder time because they are a smaller company, they will grow into it.

No, they are a garbage company..

I can see the normal FUD circlejerk is alive and well here too

My Model 3 is a better car than my Audi A6. It's about as fast as my Viper. I have no complaints, and patiently awaiting that "tesla killer" that everyone seems to have in the works...for the last 5 years. But hey, if we can get plastic sisters, I guess anything is possible.

Gee Mr. Stark, couldn't you come up with a solution to the charging supply issues between building suits of armor?

I'll get right on it

 Andrew1975 wrote:

jouso wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:


DUUUUDE!, You have no idea what I know. I know that pretty much every argument you have put together has been baseless crap. unfounded and unsitable.

Read your own posts on the subject. They convey the absolute opposite.

Right, says the guy who thinks rare earth metals are worse for the environment than oil.

Care to point out where I said that?

Tesla built their chargers to their specs and paid for the installation. Graciously Tesla has said any car company can piggy back on them as long as they are willing to be an actual partner in the charging network, nobody has taken them up on

Why would they sign for a proprietary system while there was a common system already in development?

Because Tesla Chargers are already better and deployed. The bigger question is why not piggy back on an already successful and deployed system and make that system expand. Its like they really want to back Betamax, when VHS is already on the market.