Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Andrew1975 wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok so like I said Cybertruck would be different.....and boy is it. looks like a delorean and and aztec got drunk one night. The specs for the price are amazing though.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-electric-pickup-engineering-manufacturing/

I don't see this going over well with the NASCAR crowd, which is the truck market.....but i get the feeling it wasnt meant to. I've never been a truck guy so you guys might have more input.

It's like they borrowed the "worst" lamborghini stylist, hired the person who did the Aztek, they got drunk/high, or something. . . and just went to town.


If that truck gets produced that way, I think there will be a new "ugliest production car ever" award winner, dethroning the Aztek, or that Fiat van from europe (the Euro guys know which one I'm talking about)

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok so like I said Cybertruck would be different.....and boy is it. looks like a delorean and and aztec got drunk one night. The specs for the price are amazing though.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-electric-pickup-engineering-manufacturing/

I don't see this going over well with the NASCAR crowd, which is the truck market.....but i get the feeling it wasnt meant to. I've never been a truck guy so you guys might have more input.

It's like they borrowed the "worst" lamborghini stylist, hired the person who did the Aztek, they got drunk/high, or something. . . and just went to town.


If that truck gets produced that way, I think there will be a new "ugliest production car ever" award winner, dethroning the Aztek, or that Fiat van from europe (the Euro guys know which one I'm talking about)

The only question is "can I get it in uncoated steel." The ugliness appeals to the urban warrior in me.

Ford is not going to have EVs until 2023. I'd like one now, the cost is just about right, and I don't think this would stop me from buying a Ford when it becomes available. I'm sure the resale market will be similar to their sedans.

I think it is important to note, I am not against EVs. . . I'm not necessarily against Tesla, I just don't think they are as great as they are being touted. I work at an auto dealer, and on my route from home to work, I see a half dozen teslas sitting on "lemon" lots, and several of the manufacturer new lots have used Teslas on them, most of them are fairly new models/model years. Seeing the various lots these cars are on suggests to me that there are reasons why people are unhappy with their vehicle and there's probably a "good" reason why they traded at a dealership.

Not really a fan of the truck, it feels like sci fi for sci fi's sake. I would have preferred they built off of the designs they already have for the cars and just truckified them.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
I think it is important to note, I am not against EVs. . . I'm not necessarily against Tesla, I just don't think they are as great as they are being touted. I work at an auto dealer, and on my route from home to work, I see a half dozen teslas sitting on "lemon" lots, and several of the manufacturer new lots have used Teslas on them, most of them are fairly new models/model years. Seeing the various lots these cars are on suggests to me that there are reasons why people are unhappy with their vehicle and there's probably a "good" reason why they traded at a dealership.

I don't know...I've got the model 3, had it for a year, it is hands down the best car ive ever had...havent had to put a dime into it maintenance wise and I can refill it for $8 for 310 miles....I think its amazing. I know they had problems with the some of the early model S's. Not denying you've seen them, I jus thtink they have come a long way.

The design philosphy behind the cybertruck is bold, no paint, not difficult stamping....producing them should be super easy. In a way I think he desgned a real functional concept and threw it out like a kickstarter campaign to see what happens.....already 200,000 reservations. It will sell.....will it sell millions like an f150.......nope, but i get the feeling it wasn't intended to be. Its bulletproof...literally.....I bet you see police rocking this thing.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok so like I said Cybertruck would be different.....and boy is it. looks like a delorean and and aztec got drunk one night. The specs for the price are amazing though.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-electric-pickup-engineering-manufacturing/

I don't see this going over well with the NASCAR crowd, which is the truck market.....but i get the feeling it wasnt meant to. I've never been a truck guy so you guys might have more input.

It's like they borrowed the "worst" lamborghini stylist, hired the person who did the Aztek, they got drunk/high, or something. . . and just went to town.


If that truck gets produced that way, I think there will be a new "ugliest production car ever" award winner, dethroning the Aztek, or that Fiat van from europe (the Euro guys know which one I'm talking about)

The only question is "can I get it in uncoated steel." The ugliness appeals to the urban warrior in me.

Ford is not going to have EVs until 2023. I'd like one now, the cost is just about right, and I don't think this would stop me from buying a Ford when it becomes available. I'm sure the resale market will be similar to their sedans.

It only comes in RAW stainless steel!

 Andrew1975 wrote:

jouso wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:
OH I love it, I do. I've just been a bit busy to come on here and address all the issues. I just love seeing all the people who said Tesla would be bankrupt or out of business in a couple months seeing that they were wrong. My favorite were the "No demand" people.....yep no demand.

What would you call a 39% reduction of YoY revenue in the US then?

Did they sell all their cars? Do they have months and months of inventory stacked up somewhere? They are selling everything they produce, its not demand issue, or a production issue. They just cant build enough. .

Read the numbers. Tesla's own quarterly reports contradict your claims.

Tesla's revenue is declining on record unit sales. That's a textbook case of weakening demand. Unprofitable at record deliveries with declining revenue.... The numbers are just awful and the absolute opposite of the unlimited demand growth story they want to sell.

 Andrew1975 wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
I think it is important to note, I am not against EVs. . . I'm not necessarily against Tesla, I just don't think they are as great as they are being touted. I work at an auto dealer, and on my route from home to work, I see a half dozen teslas sitting on "lemon" lots, and several of the manufacturer new lots have used Teslas on them, most of them are fairly new models/model years. Seeing the various lots these cars are on suggests to me that there are reasons why people are unhappy with their vehicle and there's probably a "good" reason why they traded at a dealership.

I don't know...I've got the model 3, had it for a year, it is hands down the best car ive ever had...havent had to put a dime into it maintenance wise and I can refill it for $8 for 310 miles....I think its amazing. I know they had problems with the some of the early model S's. Not denying you've seen them, I jus thtink they have come a long way.

The design philosphy behind the cybertruck is bold, no paint, not difficult stamping....producing them should be super easy. In a way I think he desgned a real functional concept and threw it out like a kickstarter campaign to see what happens.....already 200,000 reservations. It will sell.....will it sell millions like an f150.......nope, but i get the feeling it wasn't intended to be. Its bulletproof...literally.....I bet you see police rocking this thing.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok so like I said Cybertruck would be different.....and boy is it. looks like a delorean and and aztec got drunk one night. The specs for the price are amazing though.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-electric-pickup-engineering-manufacturing/

I don't see this going over well with the NASCAR crowd, which is the truck market.....but i get the feeling it wasnt meant to. I've never been a truck guy so you guys might have more input.

It's like they borrowed the "worst" lamborghini stylist, hired the person who did the Aztek, they got drunk/high, or something. . . and just went to town.


If that truck gets produced that way, I think there will be a new "ugliest production car ever" award winner, dethroning the Aztek, or that Fiat van from europe (the Euro guys know which one I'm talking about)

The only question is "can I get it in uncoated steel." The ugliness appeals to the urban warrior in me.

Ford is not going to have EVs until 2023. I'd like one now, the cost is just about right, and I don't think this would stop me from buying a Ford when it becomes available. I'm sure the resale market will be similar to their sedans.

It only comes in RAW stainless steel!

A friend in Seattle has one of the higher end ones with auto drive. He uses that to and from work.

The truck looks really strange, like 80s TRASH SciFi movies, not BladeRunner. When they started to damage windows it feels like spoof joke and Musk now will show REAL truck...

Stock price is down 6% today. oops.

jouso wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:

jouso wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:
OH I love it, I do. I've just been a bit busy to come on here and address all the issues. I just love seeing all the people who said Tesla would be bankrupt or out of business in a couple months seeing that they were wrong. My favorite were the "No demand" people.....yep no demand.

What would you call a 39% reduction of YoY revenue in the US then?

Did they sell all their cars? Do they have months and months of inventory stacked up somewhere? They are selling everything they produce, its not demand issue, or a production issue. They just cant build enough. .

Read the numbers. Tesla's own quarterly reports contradict your claims.

Tesla's revenue is declining on record unit sales. That's a textbook case of weakening demand. Unprofitable at record deliveries with declining revenue.... The numbers are just awful and the absolute opposite of the unlimited demand growth story they want to sell.

But if you look at the data revenue per car is down because they are selling more of the economy priced cars. Its not that they are having problems selling everything they make. They are just selling less profitable cars. The new build architecture on the 3 and y are supposed to cut costs dramatically, some say they will be at 20% profit per car....which is unheard of.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:
Stock price is down 6% today. oops.

Tesla stock always goes down after a reveal for some reason. Dropped pretty harsh after the Y reveal..... Im kind of surprised its not down more.....that truck is..... well, unorthodox is being kind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Freakazoitt wrote:
The truck looks really strange, like 80s TRASH SciFi movies, not BladeRunner. When they started to damage windows it feels like spoof joke and Musk now will show REAL truck...

Tesla reveal are always poorly done....I remember after the Y reveal....asking why they didnt show a bunch of features. That glass thing was not good, you would have thought they would have tried that out first.

What happened? The previous Tesslas had pretty cool body styles. This reminds me of the first boxcars the kids made for soapbox rallies.

It doesn't appear to have actual bumpers. Who is the target audience for this?

EDIT: I like that gate that becomes a ramp. Thats a good idea. I imagine that will be copied pretty quickly.

 Frazzled wrote:

What happened? The previous Tesslas had pretty cool body styles. This reminds me of the first boxcars the kids made for soapbox rallies.

It doesn't appear to have actual bumpers. Who is the target audience for this?

Motortrend has actually had this car for awhile and goes into great depth about the design philosophy. Its a very interesting read...i think I posted it already. The design is completely utilitarian and made to be rugged but build using no complex stampings so production will be cheap, fast and easy. Who the audience is........i guess people who value the specs of a utilitarian vehicle over looks. In comparison the rivian for the same specs will be almost double the cost. That is a huge value dilemma. If you are buying fleet vehicles.....I don't know, do you care what they look like?

I'm odd though, I find appreciation in some ugly cars.....I like VW thinks as swiminvagons. Your average Joe sport truck guy who uses this to haul heavy loads from Walmart is pretty obviously not the target market. Time will tell if this was a good call or not.

Interesting enough, Tesla MUST be using new battery tech in this truck. 3mm stainless steel is heavy, yet it can still go 0-60 in 2.9 seconds and go 500 miles (obviously not at full out speed the whole time), that is some incredible battery tech. Its going to be interesting to see how this thing does.

I don't see how thats utilitarian. It has a fake marble dash board.

Would have been better to go with a Tessla front, and El Camino style rear. The Wife would have loved that.

Imagine this as a Tessla.


Also where are the cupholders?

 Frazzled wrote:
I don't see how thats utilitarian. It has a fake marble dash board.

Would have been better to go with a Tessla front, and El Camino style rear. The Wife would have loved that.

Imagine this as a Tessla.


Also where are the cupholders?

So the specs are utilitarian, to achieve those specs at that price they cut out every bit of manufacturing complexity they could. No difficult sheet metal stampings, no paint. it hauls 14000 punds and has a 6 and a half foot bed.

I agree on the el camino part. but it would be more expensive.

 Frazzled wrote:

It doesn't appear to have actual bumpers. Who is the target audience for this?

Just a guess, but the "target" market is soccer moms and other people who think they "need" 4x4, but will NEVER EVER EVER in a million years drive on even so much as a gravel driveway.

And to be somewhat fair of the bumper thing, at least on the front end of things, have you seen the 2020 GM line up? It's a constant parade of ridiculous trucks at my dealership, and they are giant apartment block bricks across the nose. No bumper other than a panel line/piece difference. . . nothing really juts out as a bumper per se.

 Freakazoitt wrote:
The truck looks really strange, like 80s TRASH SciFi movies, not BladeRunner. When they started to damage windows it feels like spoof joke and Musk now will show REAL truck...

Agreed. It looks like an APC on the set of a b-grade sci-fi movie or TV show. And not one of the "so bad, its good" kind either.

A major issue I think could be the case is its wedge shape. In an accident, either a collision to the front or from the rear, the vehicle has a good angle to wedge itself under other vehicles that aren't small passenger cars.

I also do not believe the claim of it being bullet resistant. Not at that price tag. It takes a lot of $ to armor a car, and it results in an extremely heavy and fuel inefficient vehicle. No way is it bullet resistant at that price tag and claimed performance. Unless Musk is selling it below cost for some reason.

 Grey Templar wrote:


I also do not believe the claim of it being bullet resistant. Not at that price tag. It takes a lot of $ to armor a car, and it results in an extremely heavy and fuel inefficient vehicle. No way is it bullet resistant at that price tag and claimed performance. Unless Musk is selling it below cost for some reason.

Lol. . . Given how strong the unbreakable glass was. . . .

3mm can't be bulletproff. 9mm thick armour is minimal and it doesn't give guaranty. 6mm can protect from explosion fragments and some bullets. And only 15mm armour gives good bullet protection. 3mm is not enough even for pistol bullets. It only gives protection from car crashes, but using frame is more weight-effective way

Freakazoitt wrote:The truck looks really strange, like 80s TRASH SciFi movies, not BladeRunner. When they started to damage windows it feels like spoof joke and Musk now will show REAL truck...

Metalstorm: The Destruction of Jared-Syn.

 Andrew1975 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Stock price is down 6% today. oops.

Tesla stock always goes down after a reveal for some reason. Dropped pretty harsh after the Y reveal....

Not specific to Tesla either for what it's worth. The investment strategy for Apple has always been to buy on the rumor, sell on the reveal. I don't know why that is, but it is.

 Freakazoitt wrote:
3mm can't be bulletproff. 9mm thick armour is minimal and it doesn't give guaranty. 6mm can protect from explosion fragments and some bullets. And only 15mm armour gives good bullet protection. 3mm is not enough even for pistol bullets. It only gives protection from car crashes, but using frame is more weight-effective way

More importantly is what the metal is made of. And I doubt they used any type of hardened steel that might have a chance.

I absolutely LOVE the new Cybertruck, so much so, I have put a deposit down for it. At the start of the presentation, Musk was so right that every truck has essentially looked the same for the last 70/80 years. I also feel this way about cars generally, they all look so "safe" and boring, trying to not offend and appeal to as many people as possible. I'm not surprised that it has created such a stir, as 'the masses' generally like to cling to what they are familiar with.

Watching some of the snippets online of it driving around and I think it looks fantastic! Minimalism, brutalism, 80's futurism and cyberpunk had a baby and it's Cybertruck. It's an EV that is faster, stronger, bigger and cheaper than anything in it's class. I think it will look amazing in a matt black finish.

In related news, the new edition of Car Wars Kickstarter goes live next Friday.

So do you get the Cybertruck with the linked anti-tank guns, or go with the rocket launchers?

Electric engine? check!
Armored? check!
Brutal 80’s aesthetic? BIG check!

If it doesn’t come with a copy of Uncle Al’s Auto Stop & Gunnery Shop’s catalog and a membership in the AADA someone is missing a marketing gimmie.

With a single motor, maximum tow capacity will be about 7,500 pounds and payload about 3,500 pounds. Mid-level dual-motor Cybertrucks can carry 3,500 pounds in the bed and tow 10,000 pounds. Cybertrucks with the larger, stacked battery and three-motors should be able to tow about 14,000 pounds and haul 3,500 pounds. Notably, both of those figures beat the aluminum-bodied F-150's current maximums of 13,200 and 2,309 pounds.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/cybertruck/2021/tesla-cybertruck-electric-pickup-photos-info/

That is what I was curious about. Won't replace my F350 dually but may be useful to some folks.

Hey, uh... where are the mirrors?

 Ouze wrote:
Hey, uh... where are the mirrors?

It probably has cameras hidden in the rear that then feed to a display on the dash for that.

Honestly I think it looks like something someone made with a really cheap set of lego. It's got no refinement to its design; no heart or soul. Even its "space age design" is really rather boring and bland.
I'm sure its loaded with high performance everything, it just looks ugly.

 Overread wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Hey, uh... where are the mirrors?

It probably has cameras hidden in the rear that then feed to a display on the dash for that.

Honestly I think it looks like something someone made with a really cheap set of lego. It's got no refinement to its design; no heart or soul. Even its "space age design" is really rather boring and bland.
I'm sure its loaded with high performance everything, it just looks ugly.

I agree, though to be fair it's not like the other Teslas are jaw-dropping in terms of looks and most of the effort with the styling seems to have gone on the interiors rather than exteriors. They're not bad, just a bit dull. The truck, on the other hand, just looks really weird, but not in a good way.

Honestly the more I look at it the more I tihnk its one of those designs that probably looked ok in the artists rendition of it. An example of where drawn styles don't necessarily match up to the same impression in reality.

I also wonder about its overall ruggedness and function. It sounds powerful but I wonder how durable it is and how functional it is going offroad or taking any kind of abuse during use. Sometimes really simple tech might appear crude, but your reflective side mirrors won't get a hissyfit because they got a little wet; or start wobbling or causing odd issues because the battery is getting a bit old.

Heck we've owned cars where the warning lights start to become useless because the main central cable bundle is getting worn every time you open and close the boot.

 Freakazoitt wrote:
3mm can't be bulletproff. 9mm thick armour is minimal and it doesn't give guaranty. 6mm can protect from explosion fragments and some bullets. And only 15mm armour gives good bullet protection. 3mm is not enough even for pistol bullets. It only gives protection from car crashes, but using frame is more weight-effective way

Well they showed it get shot by 3 9mm rounds and it didnt scratch it, the body is made of 3mm Ultra-Hard 30X Cold-Rolled stainless-steel. I don't know what it would take to stop a 9mm, but this worked in the video.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-electric-pickup-bulletproof-stainless-steel-body/

"The Tesla Cybertruck's skin will be made of the same stainless steel that is used by sister company SpaceX for its coming Starship spacecraft. That means 301 stainless steel and, in the Cybertruck, 3mm thickness. Tesla claims this makes it bulletproof to 9mm rounds but does not mention any armor rating certification.

"If fully hardened, 3mm of 301 stainless is more than adequate to stop any 9mm Luger round I can think of, apart from exotic stuff like dedicated armor piercing bullets, which you're not going to find on gun store shelves," said Iain Harrison, editor-in-chief of Recoil as well as a competitive shooter and former British Army captain."

Look I don't think Tesla is actually marketing this as a certified "bulletproof car" they are saying its skin is strong enough to take a bullet. But they did show the shots bouncing off of it during the reveal. I'm sure someone will take it far too literally and claim Elon is a fraud because its not certified bullet proof....so there are the facts



The glass ahhh. the glass. From what I've read.....they performed the test multiple times on the same windows before the reveal....this is apparently the problem. Engineers are saying there really is no such thing as bullet proof glass, but bullet resistant glass and that after multiple test micro fractures built up making the glass fragile......I guess the lesson is use fresh glass for demonstrations.

So far 150k reservations...mostly for the higher tier 3 motor.....so not bad. Now the reservation is only a $100 and is refundable, so they are not hard orders.

I think its bold and its gonna make people make decisions on what is important.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

It doesn't appear to have actual bumpers. Who is the target audience for this?

Just a guess, but the "target" market is soccer moms and other people who think they "need" 4x4, but will NEVER EVER EVER in a million years drive on even so much as a gravel driveway.

And to be somewhat fair of the bumper thing, at least on the front end of things, have you seen the 2020 GM line up? It's a constant parade of ridiculous trucks at my dealership, and they are giant apartment block bricks across the nose. No bumper other than a panel line/piece difference. . . nothing really juts out as a bumper per se.

I don't know...if you are a fleet purchaser....do you go with the very functional, cheaper model that costs less to run.....do you care what it looks like? If it attracts alot of attention to your logo.....even better.

If you are the police, I think this could almost be a no brainer. What are police driving now suped up challengers and ford SUVs? I bet for the cybertruck has better specs and "bulletproof" or at least more bullet resistant than what the police are currently driving.

 Andrew1975 wrote:

jouso wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:

jouso wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:
OH I love it, I do. I've just been a bit busy to come on here and address all the issues. I just love seeing all the people who said Tesla would be bankrupt or out of business in a couple months seeing that they were wrong. My favorite were the "No demand" people.....yep no demand.

What would you call a 39% reduction of YoY revenue in the US then?

Did they sell all their cars? Do they have months and months of inventory stacked up somewhere? They are selling everything they produce, its not demand issue, or a production issue. They just cant build enough. .

Read the numbers. Tesla's own quarterly reports contradict your claims.

Tesla's revenue is declining on record unit sales. That's a textbook case of weakening demand. Unprofitable at record deliveries with declining revenue.... The numbers are just awful and the absolute opposite of the unlimited demand growth story they want to sell.

But if you look at the data revenue per car is down because they are selling more of the economy priced cars. Its not that they are having problems selling everything they make. They are just selling less profitable cars. The new build architecture on the 3 and y are supposed to cut costs dramatically, some say they will be at 20% profit per car....which is unheard of.

Tesla reports 1.6 billion of finished goods. Even accounting for a bit of solar equipment that's some 40k cars there.

So no, they don't sell all they make. Otherwise they wouldn't have dramatically reduced prices all along 2019.