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Does anyone think GW should drop physical codes all together and instead switch to an online repository where they can be updated with the new rules changes?

I'm saying this for a couple of reasons:
1. The book bloat is nuts, with the release of the "specialist formations", new units, and new "chapter tactics" scattered across multiple box sets/White dwarf magazines/random bits of paper the amount of books needed to play with an updated army is nuts.

2. Their release schedule practically requires the released codex to become obsolete as soon as the FAQ drops 2 weeks afterwards. This usually includes quite a few spelling/grammar/formatting errors as well as clearing up some rules.

3. Chapter Approved makes a tonne of changes to points and weapons, once again making original codexes useless.

4. Their new rules department mantra of giving everyone new rules over time makes it ridiculous to track what chapter tactics do or what your opponent is trying to accomplish with their list.

5. Even from a business perspective cutting out the cost of printing hundreds of thousands of glossy books could be better directed to maintaining and building a repository for this info online. This would even increase traffic to the GW website to increase sales.

By all means make physical collectors editions but leave the main rules up on a live server where they can be updated as needed.

AoS is making a nice change with most of the battletomes being available in digital form through a dedicated app, I really feel that this would be the way forward for the future of GW codexes.

No.

I hate e-books.

An online page with points costs would be neat, but I would not want the whole book train to go digital.

Yeah, I will always opt for paper over digital. It's easier for me to navigate and browse.

I do not own a single physical GW book. All e-format. Much easier to carry, update, and accurate.

I don't think they need to get rid of them all together. They could always sell physical copies that come with a code for an online book or just have physical books for those who want them. Personally, id like if they did lore books and rules separately and rules went to a subscription base. So essentially you could have access to all rules digitally for something like $9.99 a month.

I buy dead tree copies then scan them and keep copies on my phone and tablet. I would love updated digital points, but liek the physical art and reading... plus if my batttery dies in a device or I am going to a all day event I do prefer the tree corpse one.

I hate digital copies too but I recognise the value in having a digital repository. Let's face it; if GW decided to update all of its published codexes 3 or 4 times per edition, say, there would be howls of outrage and rightly so, over having to buy multiple copies. Having a digital, updateable copy negates this.

But, as said, I much prefer a physical copy. If it came to it, I would have to arrange to get my copy printed like I did with the Sisters codex a few editions ago, for example.

There's sort of already a thread on tihs here

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/773005.page

Personally if we are talking specifically shifting from print to digital tehre's a few reason GW likely won't

1) Print books stand out on the shelf and the table. They can be as much a part of marketing as a poster or banner; but they are even better because they can be opened up and are full of more interesting content! Many GW stores might have a store copy of most which is open to being leafed through by potential customers - its far easier and more interactive to do that than to simply say "hey when you get home go to the website and download this and blagh blagh you've already lost them once they leave the store".


2) Peronsally I find it easier to reference physical copies of data than digital. You can leaf through faster; find specific segments etc.... I find it faster than on computer and miles faster than on a tablet or tiny screen on a phone.

3) Books don't run out of power mid-game. They don't crash, they don't glitch; they don't require investing in a few £ work of hardware to get a unit capable of reading the data (ok prices are a bit lower than that but you're still looking - even second hand - at a good chunk of money); they don't mind being passed around or dropped (drop a book its a pain - drop a phone/tablet and its an expensive repair possibly more than the cost of a couple of codex)


Overall the really only benefit of digital is fast free updating and lighter to carry multiple books at once. Otherwise paper has a lot of advantages and I can't see them going away any time soon. Even if GW started doing digital updates very fast I'd still expect the print to remain just to help as a marketing tool

I would prefer if the physical books were printed in overall lower quality and didn't contain any fluff, just rules and points. It could even be a 3 ring binder.

Books for fluff.

An app for game stats.


The book format is a horrible waste of potential if they first choose to go digital with the codex. Bring in a dash board or something similar where a unit card is no more than 2 clicks away.

In future they could build an actual army builder on top of that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
After all we pay through the white of our noses to get the models. Charging to get access to a set of numbers and letters to go with those is borderline obnoxious.

torblind wrote:
Books for fluff.

An app for game stats.

Thing is if you split the content you lower the exposure dramatically. A lot of wargamers don't read Black Library books at all. So if you go and make the lore, background etc.... something totally separate then a larger chunk of players will just not invest into it at all. By pairing the two you increase the chances of exposure. By exposing them to lore and how-to guides you increase the chance of a newbie using more than 2 paints on their model; of buying a BL book or at least being invested into the history and lore of their chosen faction(s).


The Codex/Battletome is about more than just pure stats even if more experienced gamers only want the stats. Plus splitting content might not make anything cheaper unless GW does what they've done for AoS and makes content free.

GW absolutely needs to keep doing both. There will always be enough players like myself that absolutely want a physical book.
Until the tech is available to psychically arrive at the page/rule you want to look at, physically turning to the page you need will always be faster (for me at least). I have yet to have someone get to the same rule fast than I can in my book than they can on a tablet/phone.
I'm usually at the page needed about the time they've unlocked the device and/or opened the App.

But I certainly respect and appreciate those who prefer digital. I see it's value, but it just isn't to my taste.

As long as GW supports both methods, I think they are in the right mindset.

-

 Overread wrote:

torblind wrote:
Books for fluff.

An app for game stats.

Thing is if you split the content you lower the exposure dramatically. A lot of wargamers don't read Black Library books at all. So if you go and make the lore, background etc.... something totally separate then a larger chunk of players will just not invest into it at all. By pairing the two you increase the chances of exposure. By exposing them to lore and how-to guides you increase the chance of a newbie using more than 2 paints on their model; of buying a BL book or at least being invested into the history and lore of their chosen faction(s).


The Codex/Battletome is about more than just pure stats even if more experienced gamers only want the stats. Plus splitting content might not make anything cheaper unless GW does what they've done for AoS and makes content free.

I actually agree with this. When I think back at older codices the artistic expressions and photos are an important part of my experience with the books.

But digital has to be able to bring something without too big of a compromise to above said experience.

torblind wrote:
Books for fluff.

An app for game stats.


The book format is a horrible waste of potential if they first choose to go digital with the codex. Bring in a dash board or something similar where a unit card is no more than 2 clicks away.

In future they could build an actual army builder on top of that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
After all we pay through the white of our noses to get the models. Charging to get access to a set of numbers and letters to go with those is borderline obnoxious.

This 100%. There's really no excuse for this now.

"Look at a book. A book is the right size to be a book. They're solar-powered. If you drop them, they keep on being a book. You can find your place in microseconds. Books are really good at being books, and no matter what happens, books will survive." - Douglas Adams

I think that the hard copy books are one of the primary reasons that tabletop gaming is so much fun. if you're just going to be reading everything off of an ipad, why not go play a video game? While hard copy books can't be updated, it is true, if you're using the codexes for your army building, you really need to look up Battlescribe. The codexes provide fluff, inspiration, quick reference, stunning artwork, and a basis for army building, but when the army building and playing happens, for the times when you neither want nor need fluff, army building apps are not only up to date, they are also much more efficient for playing with. However, GW makes epub copies of their codexes, but for me the first book I buy will always be hard copy. Books give you something you can own, love, personalize, scribble in, tear, mend, and lose at tournaments, while all an ebook gives you is information on a screen.

I really enjoy Azyr

would be nice if 40k and all the other games had a program like that.

But i still enjoy having the physical books.

just do both.

No I like having a book and GW isn't good enough at management to handle online only.

Books are a terror on the hobby. Independent game stores get sent tons of books as part of GW's "mandatory minimum package" then they rot on the shelf because it's not what the 4 people playing in the area needed and there's no way to sell it even WHILE it's relevant. I absolutely abhor GW throwing the hobby shops we NEED under the bus one after another.

Yet I pay a 50% miniature tax to pay for GW's own stores, the closest of which is 1400 km away.

GW has based their model on IKEA, well guess what, IKEA stopped expanding 5 years ago and they are going to shrink into oblivion just like GW will.

 Absolute_Maniac wrote:
Does anyone think GW should drop physical codes all together and instead switch to an online repository where they can be updated with the new rules changes?

I'm saying this for a couple of reasons:
1. The book bloat is nuts, with the release of the "specialist formations", new units, and new "chapter tactics" scattered across multiple box sets/White dwarf magazines/random bits of paper the amount of books needed to play with an updated army is nuts.

2. Their release schedule practically requires the released codex to become obsolete as soon as the FAQ drops 2 weeks afterwards. This usually includes quite a few spelling/grammar/formatting errors as well as clearing up some rules.

3. Chapter Approved makes a tonne of changes to points and weapons, once again making original codexes useless.

4. Their new rules department mantra of giving everyone new rules over time makes it ridiculous to track what chapter tactics do or what your opponent is trying to accomplish with their list.

5. Even from a business perspective cutting out the cost of printing hundreds of thousands of glossy books could be better directed to maintaining and building a repository for this info online. This would even increase traffic to the GW website to increase sales.

By all means make physical collectors editions but leave the main rules up on a live server where they can be updated as needed.

AoS is making a nice change with most of the battletomes being available in digital form through a dedicated app, I really feel that this would be the way forward for the future of GW codexes.

Yes. Dear GOD yes.

Nope. Hate apps, and hate using electronic devices during a game.

Tabletop games are precisely the time when I'm able to ignore my phone for 2-3 hours and just be in a place with my friends.

That said, there is no real solution which isn't digital - or (in my dream world) GW releases $20 softcover codices which are intended to be used/marked/written and disposable every couple of years.

 Absolute_Maniac wrote:
Does anyone think GW should drop physical codes all together and instead switch to an online repository where they can be updated with the new rules changes?

I'm sure someone thinks this, but it's not me.

We're nerds. We like books. /Thread

Asmodios wrote:
I don't think they need to get rid of them all together. They could always sell physical copies that come with a code for an online book or just have physical books for those who want them. Personally, id like if they did lore books and rules separately and rules went to a subscription base. So essentially you could have access to all rules digitally for something like $9.99 a month.

Like paper books, it should be available for those who want it.

But for the record, I never will want it. I am disturbed by the element of "Rent it for the rest of your life but never own it" that is creeping into modern culture- I feel the same way about Netflix. I get it, and it sounds appealing, but you never own that content; you have access to it for as long as you continue to pay and for as long as the IP owner continues to post it. Case in point:

I've been playing since the late 80's- but let's call it 1990, because I can be certain I was playing by then. That's $10 x 12 months x 28 years, or $3600. I think I've probably put about $2500 into paper. And guess what? I still have rules, fluff and artwork for Confessor Kyrinov, Saint Praxedes and Baron Sathonyx. In the digital system, it would be gone, and all I would have is the most recent material.

But that's me- my style, my take. If you want digital updated and collated in real time, designed for maximum ease of use, you should be able to have it. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a good service. I just prefer the tangible permanence of a good to the fickle and uncertain nature of a service. I think books and digital products need to coexist.

Why not have both. And dont they basically have that set up now with enhanced editions.

Just needs to be improved.

I much prefer having a physical book to flip through- they are much more convenient when looking up a rules interaction, plus one of the reasons I play non-digital games is to take a break from screens. (which is pretty healthy for our brains) I don't think that switching to pure digital will solve any of the problems with Warhammer. The issue isn't the medium, it's the company making little effort and being rewarded for it. GW games will never improve as long as they continue to make big profits.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
No.

I hate e-books.

An online page with points costs would be neat, but I would not want the whole book train to go digital.

You know you can just print them out if you want something physical?

PenitentJake wrote:
In the digital system, it would be gone, and all I would have is the most recent material.

Not necessarily. For example, I buy DRM-free music from Amazon and once I've bought an album it's mine forever and my local copy still exists even if Amazon went out of business. There's nothing preventing a digital sales model where old material is no longer supported and updated but remains available in your collection forever.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
No.

I hate e-books.

An online page with points costs would be neat, but I would not want the whole book train to go digital.

You know you can just print them out if you want something physical?

But then you would need to pay to get it printed on top of paying for the Ebook and it is not like GW would lower the cost on an Ebook vs a real one.

 mew28 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
No.

I hate e-books.

An online page with points costs would be neat, but I would not want the whole book train to go digital.

You know you can just print them out if you want something physical?

But then you would need to pay to get it printed on top of paying for the Ebook and it is not like GW would lower the cost on an Ebook vs a real one.

They actually did sell ebooks for less than the full book. Not by much, but it was a little cheaper.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
No.

I hate e-books.

An online page with points costs would be neat, but I would not want the whole book train to go digital.

You know you can just print them out if you want something physical?

You know you can just scan them if you want something digital?