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NexAddo wrote:

Too early to say how the army will play. It will probably be weaker but that doesn't make it completely useless in a non competitive setting.

I never get this argument.

Everything is not completely useless in a non-competitive setting.

Rules should be balanced so they are useful in any match played game.

This is true, but we know it's a fools errand. How much of each codex is used in a competitive setting? Probably a pretty small percentage (unless you play something like Harlies where you don't have much of a choice), but many of those unused units get great mileage in Matched Play non high-competitive games. That does exist you know, games where players opt for matched play but end up taking units they probably wouldn't take to an LVO. It doesn't mean they are trying to throw the game.

This is true, but we know it's a fools errand. How much of each codex is used in a competitive setting? Probably a pretty small percentage (unless you play something like Harlies where you don't have much of a choice), but many of those unused units get great mileage in Matched Play non high-competitive games. That does exist you know, games where players opt for matched play but end up taking units they probably wouldn't take to an LVO. It doesn't mean they are trying to throw the game.

I'm still on the bandwagon of holding out for the rest of the rules before passing judgement.

You've added in High Competitive games as opposed to just competitive games. If the Strategems, Relics, ect don't help out we Ynnari will not see the light of any game vaguely competitive as Vanilla Craftworld, drukhari, harlequinsare just far superior.

Index Xenos: The Fall of the Ynnari (before anyone else can make the joke)

My harlequin and melee wraith units like the idea of bonuses to hit and getting to trade hits on my opponents' turn.

Really? I always felt like Harlequins traits are too good to trade even for old soulburst.

Wyches are now strictly worse as Ynnari, they give up a whole ream of abilities to gain only 1 of them back, and not at all the best of them.

I think what I hate most about this is that it's unbeleivably bland, at no point can this be considered an interesting mechanic.

And Incubi can't be Ynnari, that makes no fething sense, they were literally the first ones to join up with Yvraine and the Visarch.

Incubi are not a very lucky unit through editions.

Not sure how I feel about this yet. I love the Ynnari fluff but in order to make an actual decision if I will run my space elves as Ynnari, I'd have to see the rest of the rules. Losing some of the attributes, strategems, and spells might not be worth it if the other Ynnari abilities are junk too.

Also come on, Incubi. What the heck! Haha

The fluff has never been reflective of the rules and thank god for that considering how inconsistent it is based on what your reading.

My guess is they didn't like making units like incubi, that had NO benefit from being taken from their parent DE codex, better in a soup faction.

Not defending that approach, just betting that is what was being considered.

The Incubi thing is just stupid too, since it's one of the few 'actual' Ynnari units, at least the ones that are bodyguards for the Visarch. Way to make sure people don't take one of the few known units of the faction.

 Dulahan wrote:
The Incubi thing is just stupid too, since it's one of the few 'actual' Ynnari units, at least the ones that are bodyguards for the Visarch. Way to make sure people don't take one of the few known units of the faction.

My bet is the Visarch gets Drazhar's aura, +1 to hit for nearby Incubi units.

So, the Ynarri characters can be added to existing Craftworld/Harlequin/Drukhari armies without penalty now? It'd be nice to add some new elements to my Harlies without having to commit to Ynarri.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
So, the Ynarri characters can be added to existing Craftworld/Harlequin/Drukhari armies without penalty now? It'd be nice to add some new elements to my Harlies without having to commit to Ynarri.

That does look like the one good thing to come out of this, if the Yncarne has got a points drop I may use him more regularly and won't need an Auxiliary HQ detachment to do it.

 Imateria wrote:
Wyches are now strictly worse as Ynnari, they give up a whole ream of abilities to gain only 1 of them back, and not at all the best of them.

Missed one of the major changes then, Wyches now retain power from pain, harlies retain cressendo, craftword retain battle focus. Bit of overlap with SfD as the game rounds progresses but still hitting on 2s even against PBs ain't shabby. Will hinge on if Ynnari strats, powers and relics are viable compared to cult buffs they'd lose.

I'm actually interested in seeing if this allows true mixed "Ynnari" groups now. So an Ynnari "Autarch" and a unit of Guardians with a unit of Wyches and another of Dark Eldar Warriors all in one Detachment again?

 Dulahan wrote:
I'm actually interested in seeing if this allows true mixed "Ynnari" groups now. So an Ynnari "Autarch" and a unit of Guardians with a unit of Wyches and another of Dark Eldar Warriors all in one Detachment again?

Doesn't look it. The Ynnari keyword that they gain is explicitly not a faction keyword and the "Battle Brothers" matched play rule from Big FAQ2 says you can't use Aeldari as the unifying keyword within a detachment.

You'd need to have one detachment of Reborn Asuryani and another detachment for Reborn Drukhari.

 winterman wrote:

 Imateria wrote:
Wyches are now strictly worse as Ynnari, they give up a whole ream of abilities to gain only 1 of them back, and not at all the best of them.

Missed one of the major changes then, Wyches now retain power from pain, harlies retain cressendo, craftword retain battle focus. Bit of overlap with SfD as the game rounds progresses but still hitting on 2s even against PBs ain't shabby. Will hinge on if Ynnari strats, powers and relics are viable compared to cult buffs they'd lose.

I had not noticed that, I gave up squinting at the left hand page.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
So, the Ynarri characters can be added to existing Craftworld/Harlequin/Drukhari armies without penalty now? It'd be nice to add some new elements to my Harlies without having to commit to Ynarri.

You cant have a solitaire if you do that, what Harlequin player would add Yvarine in place of a Solitaire? Just take a CWE or DE detachment and add it there, it makes building pure pure worst b.c you need a different detachment for the solitaire.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
So, the Ynarri characters can be added to existing Craftworld/Harlequin/Drukhari armies without penalty now? It'd be nice to add some new elements to my Harlies without having to commit to Ynarri.

You cant have a solitaire if you do that, what Harlequin player would add Yvarine in place of a Solitaire? Just take a CWE or DE detachment and add it there, it makes building pure pure worst b.c you need a different detachment for the solitaire.

If you really want a Solitaire and the Yncarne in the same list then it shouldn't be that difficult to fit them both in. How often do you run only one detachment, even as a mono-Codex list?

 Burnage wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
So, the Ynarri characters can be added to existing Craftworld/Harlequin/Drukhari armies without penalty now? It'd be nice to add some new elements to my Harlies without having to commit to Ynarri.

You cant have a solitaire if you do that, what Harlequin player would add Yvarine in place of a Solitaire? Just take a CWE or DE detachment and add it there, it makes building pure pure worst b.c you need a different detachment for the solitaire.

If you really want a Solitaire and the Yncarne in the same list then it shouldn't be that difficult to fit them both in. How often do you run only one detachment, even as a mono-Codex list?

Its more of the idea of how GW is doing it, its convoluted for "Fear" it might be to strong and not for a fluff stand point (as a fluff stand point he would follow Ynnari/Yvarine around b.c thats what they do, they act kinda like spies or check if she knows anything about the black library). its more of a slap in the face.

Ynnariquins are looking interesting with some nice potential combos pending on how the rest of the Ynnari index shakes out with strats, psychic powers, relics, warlord traits, etc.

The idea of Rising Crescendo with some of the benefits of SFD could be very powerful. Additionally, could be a much more reliable way of teleporting the Yncarne (assuming his teleporting shenanigans work the same) into your opponent's lines turn 2 with the pseudo-interrupt ability.

 Asmodai wrote:

 Dulahan wrote:
I'm actually interested in seeing if this allows true mixed "Ynnari" groups now. So an Ynnari "Autarch" and a unit of Guardians with a unit of Wyches and another of Dark Eldar Warriors all in one Detachment again?

Doesn't look it. The Ynnari keyword that they gain is explicitly not a faction keyword and the "Battle Brothers" matched play rule from Big FAQ2 says you can't use Aeldari as the unifying keyword within a detachment.

You'd need to have one detachment of Reborn Asuryani and another detachment for Reborn Drukhari.

I was more hoping for some 'exceptions' that might be spelled out in the Index that we don't know about yet.

The way I read it (by my squinting might be wrong), you can't stack SfD and Rising Crescendo.
When you add an Ynnari character, you choose to either keep your detachment as Harlie/CWE/DE, and retain all related bonuses, or you choose to change it for a reborn detachment, in which case your units gain the Ynnari detachment bonuses (SfD, strats, relics etc.), instead of the normal ones (not in addition to).

fresus wrote:
The way I read it (by my squinting might be wrong), you can't stack SfD and Rising Crescendo.
When you add an Ynnari character, you choose to either keep your detachment as Harlie/CWE/DE, and retain all related bonuses, or you choose to change it for a reborn detachment, in which case your units gain the Ynnari detachment bonuses (SfD, strats, relics etc.), instead of the normal ones (not in addition to).

Correct, with a list of units that can or cant be with the Ynnari characters / Ynnari detachments.

Oddly... Ynnari names characters (the 4-5 from the fluff like Eldrad, Lelith, etc..) that are now officially following Ynnari cant join Ynnari.

I’ve got WD next to me.

A lot of the Stratagems bounce off Soulburst units. And, should you kill the enemy Warlord, for just 1CP, you get permanent Soulburst on all relevant units.

There’s also one that allows up to three units of Incubi to gain Strength from Death. It’s 2CP though. I don’t know enough to say if that’s good, situational, or bobbins!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’ve got WD next to me.

A lot of the Stratagems bounce off Soulburst units. And, should you kill the enemy Warlord, for just 1CP, you get permanent Soulburst on all relevant units.

There’s also one that allows up to three units of Incubi to gain Strength from Death. It’s 2CP though. I don’t know enough to say if that’s good, situational, or bobbins!

But..... Incubi dont need +1 to hit... they already can get +1 to hit multiple ways... they need more attacks and to be cheaper

1CP - united in death.

Pick one Asuryani, one Harlequin and one Drukhari Reborn Unit. Until the end of turn, add 1 Attack whilst Soulbursting.

How's the Revenant Discipline looking?

Not sure if allowed to post pics?

1. Gaze of Nagash.
WC 6. Select one enemy unit within 18” and visible to caster. Roll a D6. 1 = 1 MW. 2-5 = D3 MW. 6 = D6 MW

2. Storm of Whispers
WC6. If manifested, roll 3D6 for each enemy unit within 6” of the caster. For each 6, unit takes 1 MW.

3. Word up of the Phoenix.
WC5. In manifested, pick 1 Ynnari Infantry or Ynnari Biker Unit within 18”. One model regains D3 Lost Wounds. If no models have lost wounds, but has suffered one or more casualties, return 1 model the unit, within coherency, with 1 wound.

4. Unbind Souls
WC6. If manifested, select enemy within 18” of the caster. Until your next Psychic phase, you can re-roll Wounds for melee Weapon attacks made by Ynnari models in your army that target that unit.

5. Shield of Ynnead.
WC7. If manifested, all friendly Ynnari units within 6” of caster gain a 5+ INV until your next psychic phase

6. Ancestors Grace
WC5. Select friendly Ynnari unit within 18”. Until your next psychic phase, re-roll hit rolls of 1 for attacks made by that unit.

gaze of nagash? :O

pics via imgur pleaseee