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 Galef wrote:

karandrasss wrote:
How are Alaitoc spears supposed to do more damage against a Knight?

Because they benefit from Doom and have shooting weapons that are AP-3 against them (because you only get successful wound on 6, which triggers AP-3). They're Lances also have AP-4 and Damage 2 in BOTH shooting and melee.
CWE benefit from Jinx, so even with Rotate Ion Shields, the Crusader will only have a 5++ against that shooting. And will have NO save in melee against their Damage 2 weapons

-

Does the ROI take into account the cost of support units?

SO how's this at 1500, intended for a 2k or 1750 list, so still points to play with.

Alaitoc Battalion
Farseer Skyrunner, Doom, Guide
Warlock Skyrunner, Protect/Jinx or Quicken/Restrain depending on matchup

2x 5 Rangers
8 Storm Guardians

9 Shining Spears (including Exarch)

Reborn Drukharii Battalion

Succubus, Hypex, The Lost Shroud, Warden of Souls
Visarch

3x5 Kabalite Warriors

12 Reavers, 4 Grav Talons

Reborn Asuryani Supreme Command

Autarch Skyrunner, Laser Lance, Repear Launcher, Corag Hai's Locket, Walker of the Many Paths

Warlock Skyrunner, Shield of Ynnead (Hangs out with Reavers)

Yvraine, Ancestor's Grace, Unbind Souls


Automatically Appended Next Post:

karandrasss wrote:
Alaitoc spears + support units makes twice its points back against a Knight? How does that work? Spears + support cost more than a Knight, no? Does the ROI take into account the cost of support units?

The cost of the support isn't included for anything. Farseer and Yvraine are similar costs and the above is without Jinx, but both builds would probably have a warlock anyway, so a wash again. Also the support units are the HQs required to take the detachment so will always be in the army regardless.

Drager wrote:
SO how's this at 1500, intended for a 2k or 1750 list, so still points to play with.

Alaitoc Battalion
Farseer Skyrunner, Doom, Guide
Warlock Skyrunner, Protect/Jinx or Quicken/Restrain depending on matchup

2x 5 Rangers
8 Storm Guardians

9 Shining Spears (including Exarch)

Reborn Drukharii Battalion

Succubus, Hypex, The Lost Shroud, Warden of Souls
Visarch

3x5 Kabalite Warriors

12 Reavers, 4 Grav Talons

Reborn Asuryani Supreme Command

Autarch Skyrunner, Laser Lance, Repear Launcher, Corag Hai's Locket, Walker of the Many Paths

Warlock Skyrunner, Shield of Ynnead (Hangs out with Reavers)

Yvraine, Ancestor's Grace, Unbind Souls


Automatically Appended Next Post:

karandrasss wrote:
Alaitoc spears + support units makes twice its points back against a Knight? How does that work? Spears + support cost more than a Knight, no?

The cost of the support isn't included for anything. Farseer and Yvraine are similar costs and the above is without Jinx, but both builds would probably have a warlock anyway, so a wash again.

What happens when spears gets focused?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Drager wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I don't think Wraithguard/Blades do very well out of Ynnari. 5-6 In a Wave serpent might be ok, but a footslogging unit really needs the Craftworlds defensive buffs.

Spears also really like Craftworld defensive buffs, but at least they gain the advance and charge strat.

Wraithguard like the Ynarri defensive buffs too. 3+/5++/6+++ is pretty nice and it still lets you use the Craftworld defensive buffs somewhere else.

Incidentally, I've done a little bit of calculation on return on investment in a single turn for a few options. I've pitted Ynarri Shining Spears and Ynarri reavers against each other, Strife Reavers and Black Heart ravagers. Both ynarri units come out looking pretty decent. When Is ay all units have reroll 1s in the assumption, obviously the Strife reavers don't for shooting as that's not possible for them.

The whole numbers are wounds suffered after all defences. The ROI is a percentage of the attacking units points returned in a single turn. This includes shooting and charging (except the Ravager, no charge there).

How did you get to 19/21? Three spears no buffs is only 1.78 vs. Knights. That's quite a leap.

karandrasss wrote:

Spoiler:

Drager wrote:
SO how's this at 1500, intended for a 2k or 1750 list, so still points to play with.

Alaitoc Battalion
Farseer Skyrunner, Doom, Guide
Warlock Skyrunner, Protect/Jinx or Quicken/Restrain depending on matchup

2x 5 Rangers
8 Storm Guardians

9 Shining Spears (including Exarch)

Reborn Drukharii Battalion

Succubus, Hypex, The Lost Shroud, Warden of Souls
Visarch

3x5 Kabalite Warriors

12 Reavers, 4 Grav Talons

Reborn Asuryani Supreme Command

Autarch Skyrunner, Laser Lance, Repear Launcher, Corag Hai's Locket, Walker of the Many Paths

Warlock Skyrunner, Shield of Ynnead (Hangs out with Reavers)

Yvraine, Ancestor's Grace, Unbind Souls


Automatically Appended Next Post:

karandrasss wrote:
Alaitoc spears + support units makes twice its points back against a Knight? How does that work? Spears + support cost more than a Knight, no?

The cost of the support isn't included for anything. Farseer and Yvraine are similar costs and the above is without Jinx, but both builds would probably have a warlock anyway, so a wash again.

What happens when spears gets focused?

Then you use the reavers and the other 500 points of stuff not in that core list, as to take out the spears it has to be the case that you couldn't hide them in deployment and they dumped a tonne of fire in as -2 to hit spears are pretty resilient, so they won't have much left to shoot out the reavers or other things. I don't think this list is good enough at 1500, which is why I said it's a core for a 2k/1750 list.

Two squads of stealers. 19 in each for ease.

Scorpions come down and pistol away. There is no catalyst cause we didn't pay for a nuerothrope.

23 hits, 11.5 wounds, 4 saves. so we are down to 30 vs 31.5 just from shooting.

3 units charging, 2 making it on average with a CP reroll.

we'll both into the unbuffed unit because logic. the uncatalyzed stealers get hit 42 times and take 21 wounds so loose another 14 guys.

Darn I forgot mandiblasters. One squad of stealers wiped and still 30 striking scorpions.


Turn 2, the stealers are gonna get some revenge. They charge, only loosing 2.5 in overwatch. Combat starts and mandiblasters go off, killing another 5 or so (two units of scorpions get 2 mandiblaster rounds). The remain 12 genestealers do have 48 attacks though.

32 hits, 21 wounds, 4 of which will be rends on average. ouch, looks like 13 scorpions die, causing moral checks on 2 units at the end of the turn.

7 scorpions fight back, 14 hits, 7 wounds, 3 save if their lucky.


5 scorpions will run away, meaning 12 scorpions are left againgst 8 genestealers.


Its honeslty pretty close, but the scorps do win.

Drager wrote:

karandrasss wrote:

Spoiler:

Drager wrote:
SO how's this at 1500, intended for a 2k or 1750 list, so still points to play with.

Alaitoc Battalion
Farseer Skyrunner, Doom, Guide
Warlock Skyrunner, Protect/Jinx or Quicken/Restrain depending on matchup

2x 5 Rangers
8 Storm Guardians

9 Shining Spears (including Exarch)

Reborn Drukharii Battalion

Succubus, Hypex, The Lost Shroud, Warden of Souls
Visarch

3x5 Kabalite Warriors

12 Reavers, 4 Grav Talons

Reborn Asuryani Supreme Command

Autarch Skyrunner, Laser Lance, Repear Launcher, Corag Hai's Locket, Walker of the Many Paths

Warlock Skyrunner, Shield of Ynnead (Hangs out with Reavers)

Yvraine, Ancestor's Grace, Unbind Souls


Automatically Appended Next Post:

karandrasss wrote:
Alaitoc spears + support units makes twice its points back against a Knight? How does that work? Spears + support cost more than a Knight, no?

The cost of the support isn't included for anything. Farseer and Yvraine are similar costs and the above is without Jinx, but both builds would probably have a warlock anyway, so a wash again.

What happens when spears gets focused?

Then you use the reavers and the other 500 points of stuff not in that core list, as to take out the spears it has to be the case that you couldn't hide them in deployment and they dumped a tonne of fire in as -2 to hit spears are pretty resilient, so they won't have much left to shoot out the reavers or other things. I don't think this list is good enough at 1500, which is why I said it's a core for a 2k/1750 list.

Without Saim Hann reroll charges/advance and charge, they could also be just stuck somewhere after moving out.

karandrasss wrote:
How did you get to 19/21? Three spears no buffs is only 1.78 vs. Knights. That's quite a leap.

Ynnari Spears Shooting

Hit on 3s, reroll 1s that's 7/9

Wound With Laser Lance 1/3
Are saved 1/2
That gives 7/54
This is then multiplied by 2 for the damage, giving 14/54
Then by 7 for the number of shots 98/54

Wound With Shuricats 1/6
Are saved 1/2
That gives 1/12
Then by 28 for the number of shots 28/12

We then add these together to get 126/54 (28/12) + 98/54 = 224/54 = 4 4/27

Ynnari Spears Shooting

Hit on 2s, reroll 1s that's 35/36

Reroll to Wound With Laser Lance 1/3 + 2/3*1/3 = 1/3 + 2/9 = 5/9
Go straight through Armour
That gives 5/9
This is then multiplied by 2 for the damage, giving 10/9
Then by 14 for the number of attacks 140/9

We then add this to the shooting 4 + 420/27 + 4/27 = 4 + 424/27 = 19 19/27

I haven't proofed that so may have made an error somewhere doing it in my head and not rereading, but the main table I did in excel and did check, so should be fine.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

karandrasss wrote:

Drager wrote:

karandrasss wrote:

Spoiler:

Drager wrote:
SO how's this at 1500, intended for a 2k or 1750 list, so still points to play with.

Alaitoc Battalion
Farseer Skyrunner, Doom, Guide
Warlock Skyrunner, Protect/Jinx or Quicken/Restrain depending on matchup

2x 5 Rangers
8 Storm Guardians

9 Shining Spears (including Exarch)

Reborn Drukharii Battalion

Succubus, Hypex, The Lost Shroud, Warden of Souls
Visarch

3x5 Kabalite Warriors

12 Reavers, 4 Grav Talons

Reborn Asuryani Supreme Command

Autarch Skyrunner, Laser Lance, Repear Launcher, Corag Hai's Locket, Walker of the Many Paths

Warlock Skyrunner, Shield of Ynnead (Hangs out with Reavers)

Yvraine, Ancestor's Grace, Unbind Souls


Automatically Appended Next Post:

karandrasss wrote:
Alaitoc spears + support units makes twice its points back against a Knight? How does that work? Spears + support cost more than a Knight, no?

The cost of the support isn't included for anything. Farseer and Yvraine are similar costs and the above is without Jinx, but both builds would probably have a warlock anyway, so a wash again.

What happens when spears gets focused?

Then you use the reavers and the other 500 points of stuff not in that core list, as to take out the spears it has to be the case that you couldn't hide them in deployment and they dumped a tonne of fire in as -2 to hit spears are pretty resilient, so they won't have much left to shoot out the reavers or other things. I don't think this list is good enough at 1500, which is why I said it's a core for a 2k/1750 list.

Without Saim Hann reroll charges/advance and charge, they could also be just stuck somewhere after moving out.

Depends on the board, if that was likely you can take Quicken, as I said in the description. I tend to take Saim Hann myself, but Galef prefers Alaitoc, hence the suggested list based on his questions earlier in the thread.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Two squads of stealers. 19 in each for ease.

Scorpions come down and pistol away. There is no catalyst cause we didn't pay for a nuerothrope.

23 hits, 11.5 wounds, 4 saves. so we are down to 30 vs 31.5 just from shooting.

3 units charging, 2 making it on average with a CP reroll.

we'll both into the unbuffed unit because logic. the uncatalyzed stealers get hit 42 times and take 21 wounds so loose another 14 guys.

Darn I forgot mandiblasters. One squad of stealers wiped and still 30 striking scorpions.


Turn 2, the stealers are gonna get some revenge. They charge, only loosing 2.5 in overwatch. Combat starts and mandiblasters go off, killing another 5 or so (two units of scorpions get 2 mandiblaster rounds). The remain 12 genestealers do have 48 attacks though.

32 hits, 21 wounds, 4 of which will be rends on average. ouch, looks like 13 scorpions die, causing moral checks on 2 units at the end of the turn.

7 scorpions fight back, 14 hits, 7 wounds, 3 save if their lucky.


5 scorpions will run away, meaning 12 scorpions are left againgst 8 genestealers.


Its honeslty pretty close, but the scorps do win.

I mean all of this happens long after the 37x genestealers demolished your front lines so it's still an incredibly lopsided trade. All units gain a huge advantage while counter-charging a target. You could replace scorpions with 2x20 black guardians and they'd be even more effective, and they'll probably even survive afterward since they're not eating a gazillion genestealer attacks in melee. The issue with that scorpion setup isn't that it's useless, it's that scorpions are completely outperformed by other units in most (all?) roles.

If you're deep striking them into enemy lines you have to compare them with units in other factions with similar roles, for example 37x genestealers or 60x bloodletters. If you're using them to counter attack after an enemy charge, well, there are units in the CWE book or even other Ynnari units that will do a better job and for fewer points. As much as I love my aspect warriors... I'm not convinced.

I'm not sold on the Scorps myself. I'm trying to arrange a game against Nids in the next few days as I played Imperium soup yesterday and Orks on Monday with my Saim-Hann/Ynarri list. I think stealers have a real potential to give me trouble so am eager to play against them.

And if anyone is interested I tabled the ork player and won by a landslide as his Da Jump squad just killed trash and his Lootas could only see Venoms (they killed a couple). I went second so had the chance to counter deploy out of LoS with my bike units (not the list above, different units). On my turn 1, I killed ~120 Orks including all 3 of the 30 man boyz squads, after which it was just a case of mopping up.

The Imperium player conceded on turn 3, as I'd wiped Cawl and his bots, plus both smash captains and ~90% of the guard/skitarii units. I had the advantage of going first in this one, so will need to test against similar lists going second. Mephiston and the few remaining guardsmen were not going to win.

What list did you use that killed 120 orks on T1?

 Galef wrote:

Drager wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Regarding Reavers v Spears and Ynnari. I think given the posts above, I'd say Reavers are a better pick for Ynnari. They get more benefits than Spears do.
However, I'd also take Alaitoc Spears over Ynnari Reavers any day, so for me at least, it doesn't matter

-

Why not take both? I mean they do different things and Ynarri Reavers give a stunning ROI on infantry targets, spears (of any stripe) are better against vehicles and hard targets. Also it means the reavers can use all the Ynarri buffs and the Spears can use the CWE ones.

If you are doing an all jetbike list, sure. All I was saying is that given the choice between the two, I'd pick CWE Spears every time.
Protect, Fortune, Doom, Alaitoc, etc are all things that amplify the baseline of Spears (which is already better than the baseline of Reavers) way more than Ynnari can boost Reavers.

Doom + Spear's Shuricats will mulch just about any infantry, then they can charge "harder targets". Reavers can't do both in the same turn.

-

I don`t think spears are good, suicide unit for 300+ is not going to cut it.
If you wanna play bikers you are better going with custodes.

Marin wrote:

 Galef wrote:

Drager wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Regarding Reavers v Spears and Ynnari. I think given the posts above, I'd say Reavers are a better pick for Ynnari. They get more benefits than Spears do.
However, I'd also take Alaitoc Spears over Ynnari Reavers any day, so for me at least, it doesn't matter

-

Why not take both? I mean they do different things and Ynarri Reavers give a stunning ROI on infantry targets, spears (of any stripe) are better against vehicles and hard targets. Also it means the reavers can use all the Ynarri buffs and the Spears can use the CWE ones.

If you are doing an all jetbike list, sure. All I was saying is that given the choice between the two, I'd pick CWE Spears every time.
Protect, Fortune, Doom, Alaitoc, etc are all things that amplify the baseline of Spears (which is already better than the baseline of Reavers) way more than Ynnari can boost Reavers.

Doom + Spear's Shuricats will mulch just about any infantry, then they can charge "harder targets". Reavers can't do both in the same turn.

-

I don`t think spears are good, suicide unit for 300+ is not going to cut it.
If you wanna play bikers you are better going with custodes.

Custodes bikers are my biggest concern about bike-heavy Eldar lists. They're tough enough to survive a charge from a big unit of Spears or Reavers, then on their turn they turn around and murder the Eldar. In the (admittedly limited) games I've played involving them both it practically feels like a hard counter.

 Burnage wrote:

Marin wrote:

 Galef wrote:

Drager wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Regarding Reavers v Spears and Ynnari. I think given the posts above, I'd say Reavers are a better pick for Ynnari. They get more benefits than Spears do.
However, I'd also take Alaitoc Spears over Ynnari Reavers any day, so for me at least, it doesn't matter

-

Why not take both? I mean they do different things and Ynarri Reavers give a stunning ROI on infantry targets, spears (of any stripe) are better against vehicles and hard targets. Also it means the reavers can use all the Ynarri buffs and the Spears can use the CWE ones.

If you are doing an all jetbike list, sure. All I was saying is that given the choice between the two, I'd pick CWE Spears every time.
Protect, Fortune, Doom, Alaitoc, etc are all things that amplify the baseline of Spears (which is already better than the baseline of Reavers) way more than Ynnari can boost Reavers.

Doom + Spear's Shuricats will mulch just about any infantry, then they can charge "harder targets". Reavers can't do both in the same turn.

-

I don`t think spears are good, suicide unit for 300+ is not going to cut it.
If you wanna play bikers you are better going with custodes.

Custodes bikers are my biggest concern about bike-heavy Eldar lists. They're tough enough to survive a charge from a big unit of Spears or Reavers, then on their turn they turn around and murder the Eldar. In the (admittedly limited) games I've played involving them both it practically feels like a hard counter.

Custodes bikers are nasty, especially for Aeldari biker units. Particularly, because the temptation to try and get that first turn charge is always there, but more often than not, it's a trap. Often times, I'll try and play ultra-conservative to whittle them down and bait them to charge a unit I'm willing to swap while having a counter ready.

Charging Custodes bikers without support and whittling them down often means, they will survive, you will be out of position and will lose your ~300point unit, and then you're left in a very precarious position.

Marin wrote:

 Galef wrote:

Drager wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Regarding Reavers v Spears and Ynnari. I think given the posts above, I'd say Reavers are a better pick for Ynnari. They get more benefits than Spears do.
However, I'd also take Alaitoc Spears over Ynnari Reavers any day, so for me at least, it doesn't matter

-

Why not take both? I mean they do different things and Ynarri Reavers give a stunning ROI on infantry targets, spears (of any stripe) are better against vehicles and hard targets. Also it means the reavers can use all the Ynarri buffs and the Spears can use the CWE ones.

If you are doing an all jetbike list, sure. All I was saying is that given the choice between the two, I'd pick CWE Spears every time.
Protect, Fortune, Doom, Alaitoc, etc are all things that amplify the baseline of Spears (which is already better than the baseline of Reavers) way more than Ynnari can boost Reavers.

Doom + Spear's Shuricats will mulch just about any infantry, then they can charge "harder targets". Reavers can't do both in the same turn.

-

I don`t think spears are good, suicide unit for 300+ is not going to cut it.
If you wanna play bikers you are better going with custodes.

What if they get their points back twice over before dying?

 slave.entity wrote:
What list did you use that killed 120 orks on T1?

I think I only rolled average, but I haven't gone back and calculated.

Ynarri Battalion

Yvraine (Unbind Souls, Ancestor's Grace)
Warlock (Shield of Yneead)

3x 8 Storm Guardians

Ynarri Battalion
Succubus, Walker of the Many Paths, Corag Hai Locket, Hypex
Visarch

4x 5 Kabalites with Shredders

12 Reavers with 4 Grav Talons

4 Venoms with Double Splinter Cannon

Saim Hann Supreme Command

Autarch Skyrunner, Avenger Catapult, Banshee Mask, Ambush of Blades
Farseer Skyrunner, Doom and Fortune
Warlock Skyrunner, Quicken/Restrain
8 Warlock Council, Protect/Jinx, Enhance/Drain.

I lost 2 venoms to lootaz and all of my storm guardians to a Da Jumping mob of Boyz. The Council put Jinx on the squad that had Da Jumped forward, then my Kabalites and Venoms wiped those 30 out. The Council at this point was in between the other two big blobs and Had Enhance on itself as well as Guide from the Farseer, which had Doomed one of the blobs. The Aturach was hanging around too. The Shuricats from the 11 bikes wiped the Doomed orks then the Autarch and Council charged the other one (not doomed) and wiped that in combat. The Reavers had moved up and shot at the Lootas (or maybe the aritllery I can't remember) and killed a bunch of Grots due to Grot Shields. They then charged into the lootas and some grots and wiped them. The lootas ahd moved up to be able to shoot the venoms, so were a bit further forwards than they would have been. Long charge though 8 or 9 inches.

Am I right that you've got over 600 points of Warlocks in there?

 Burnage wrote:
Am I right that you've got over 600 points of Warlocks in there?

You are! I'm aware it's an odd list. If you have a suggestion for a tough match up let me know so I can get against it. Nice thing is they have a tiny footprint on the important 8 so hide easily.

Drager wrote:

 Burnage wrote:
Am I right that you've got over 600 points of Warlocks in there?

You are! I'm aware it's an odd list. If you have a suggestion for a tough match up let me know so I can get against it. Nice thing is they have a tiny footprint on the important 8 so hide easily.

Assassins, IK, custodes, GSC, snipper heavy armies

Okay, had another go at a list:



Since the main thing I wanted from Ynnari was a character, I added a CWE detachment, and thus the DE units can still have their bonus. And since my DE lists tend to be light on anti-vehicle, I took the opportunity to add in some Dark Reapers and D-Cannons (not least because I already have some converted DE-Reapers and I think I could convert some appropriate-looking support weapons quite easily).

Yvraine will probably buff the Reapers with Ancestor's Grace and use Word of the Phoenix to either revive Reapers or heal the support weapons.


Any thoughts?

karandrasss wrote:
What's tougher, a Hemlock with -2 to hit or 5++?

-2 to-Hit is better protection than a 5++. If you are facing units with BS4+, it is a lot better.

However the comparison is actually -2 to-Hit or -1 to-Hit and a 5++. This is a much closer comparison.

 vipoid wrote:
Since the main thing I wanted from Ynnari was a character, I added a CWE detachment, and thus the DE units can still have their bonus.

You know that Ynnari characters don't break DE bonuses, right? They're like mercenaries.

Marin wrote:

Drager wrote:

 Burnage wrote:
Am I right that you've got over 600 points of Warlocks in there?

You are! I'm aware it's an odd list. If you have a suggestion for a tough match up let me know so I can get against it. Nice thing is they have a tiny footprint on the important 8 so hide easily.

Assassins, IK, custodes, GSC, snipper heavy armies

Thanks. I already tested earlier versions against IK and custards, they were fine, but I'll give them another go. The others should be fun.

 Burnage wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
Since the main thing I wanted from Ynnari was a character, I added a CWE detachment, and thus the DE units can still have their bonus.

You know that Ynnari characters don't break DE bonuses, right? They're like mercenaries.

Yeah but I wanted to make use of the Ynnari Warlord traits and artefacts (for flavour purposes). Otherwise I wouldn't even bother including the characters at all.

(Also, I meant to post this in the DE thread, lol. Whoops.)

 vipoid wrote:
Yeah but I wanted to make use of the Ynnari Warlord traits and artefacts (for flavour purposes). Otherwise I wouldn't even bother including the characters at all.

Some of the Warlord traits and artefacts would be quite good on a tanky character like a Biketarch (or better yet, a Wraithseer). The problem is that in order to field an Ynnari detachment in the first place, you have to run one of the named characters as a tax (who all seem to have pretty poor WL traits). Surely after 100+ years of spreading the gospel of Ynnead, there should be Ynnari armies who go into battle without one of the triumvirate to lead them?

 Karhedron wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
Yeah but I wanted to make use of the Ynnari Warlord traits and artefacts (for flavour purposes). Otherwise I wouldn't even bother including the characters at all.

Some of the Warlord traits and artefacts would be quite good on a tanky character like a Biketarch (or better yet, a Wraithseer). The problem is that in order to field an Ynnari detachment in the first place, you have to run one of the named characters as a tax (who all seem to have pretty poor WL traits). Surely after 100+ years of spreading the gospel of Ynnead, there should be Ynnari armies who go into battle without one of the triumvirate to lead them?

This is the most frustrating part of the army for me. Not least because i despise special characters in general and so being forced to filed them just to play the army at all really rubs me the wrong way.

And of course, it also makes it more of a pain to field. I'd love to just be able to field the Autarch, without also being forced to run another character with him.

 Karhedron wrote:

karandrasss wrote:
What's tougher, a Hemlock with -2 to hit or 5++?

-2 to-Hit is better protection than a 5++. If you are facing units with BS4+, it is a lot better.

However the comparison is actually -2 to-Hit or -1 to-Hit and a 5++. This is a much closer comparison.

Is it worth it to run Shield of Ynnead and 2 flyers? Or stick to Alaitoc air wing?

It took this long for me to realise the Hemlock would get Revenant powers in an Ynnari detachment (was probably mentioned in here already...) But which to give...

Its a big fast base thats hard to assault, so Whispers works decently. Shield could work also with decent planning and Smite when branching out. Haze to gain more leeway on positioning. Or just another Unbind carrier, just in case.

Drager wrote:

 slave.entity wrote:
What list did you use that killed 120 orks on T1?

I think I only rolled average, but I haven't gone back and calculated.

Ynarri Battalion

Yvraine (Unbind Souls, Ancestor's Grace)
Warlock (Shield of Yneead)

3x 8 Storm Guardians

Ynarri Battalion
Succubus, Walker of the Many Paths, Corag Hai Locket, Hypex
Visarch

4x 5 Kabalites with Shredders

12 Reavers with 4 Grav Talons

4 Venoms with Double Splinter Cannon

Saim Hann Supreme Command

Autarch Skyrunner, Avenger Catapult, Banshee Mask, Ambush of Blades
Farseer Skyrunner, Doom and Fortune
Warlock Skyrunner, Quicken/Restrain
8 Warlock Council, Protect/Jinx, Enhance/Drain.

I lost 2 venoms to lootaz and all of my storm guardians to a Da Jumping mob of Boyz. The Council put Jinx on the squad that had Da Jumped forward, then my Kabalites and Venoms wiped those 30 out. The Council at this point was in between the other two big blobs and Had Enhance on itself as well as Guide from the Farseer, which had Doomed one of the blobs. The Aturach was hanging around too. The Shuricats from the 11 bikes wiped the Doomed orks then the Autarch and Council charged the other one (not doomed) and wiped that in combat. The Reavers had moved up and shot at the Lootas (or maybe the aritllery I can't remember) and killed a bunch of Grots due to Grot Shields. They then charged into the lootas and some grots and wiped them. The lootas ahd moved up to be able to shoot the venoms, so were a bit further forwards than they would have been. Long charge though 8 or 9 inches.

That is awesome. Especially the warlock council. Interesting to see the kinds of setups eldar use to clear mass infantry. Thanks for the writeup.

I know many here have been basically saying that the acolyte strategem is crap, but honestly I don;t think this is the case. It basically gives a big f you to Culexus assassins. Also, just in case anyone wants to take a Wraithknight as Ynnari, it can make use of the A Taste for death strategem since it doesn't get the Strength from Death ability.
Ynnari hemlocks are interesting since it's rare to make too much use of the other Craftworld abilities due to proximity. Having access to Gaze Of Ynnead is nice since it's short ranged but does not need to be the closest model.
And one last thing....Chaos has the Lord Discordant to take in 3s. Is Ynnari the faction to take the Wraithseer in 3s?

 bullyboy wrote:
I know many here have been basically saying that the acolyte strategem is crap, but honestly I don;t think this is the case. It basically gives a big f you to Culexus assassins. Also, just in case anyone wants to take a Wraithknight as Ynnari, it can make use of the A Taste for death strategem since it doesn't get the Strength from Death ability.
Ynnari hemlocks are interesting since it's rare to make too much use of the other Craftworld abilities due to proximity. Having access to Gaze Of Ynnead is nice since it's short ranged but does not need to be the closest model.
And one last thing....Chaos has the Lord Discordant to take in 3s. Is Ynnari the faction to take the Wraithseer in 3s?

Why the WK can`t get soulburst ?