Author |
Message |
|
|
|
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
|
2019/06/10 14:34:06
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver
|
Talizvar wrote: Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Except they're not exactly products one can buy from elsewhere.
Contrast Paints seem unique in the market. And they're getting more made.
That is the funny thing with supply and demand: people are lazy if supply is good.
When people cannot get their needed thing, they start looking for alternatives.
I am already participating on formulation discussions based on known materials:
Mat-medium
Flo-aid
Slo-dry
Acrylic pigment inks.
Distilled water
It really is just a matter of getting the proportions right, I only need to get my hands on one pot to figure it out.
Much of the shading results look like ringers for the old ink-wash techniques, it is just a shade / ink hybrid with a slo-dry to give the pigment time to settle and yet not flow everywhere.
Market can slow that tiny bit if people find other product that fills the need, it IS unique but I think reasonably easy to mimic.
They have a narrow window of time before the DIY methods are refined and then competitors get formulations out there.
Do you honestly think people who want contrast paints will put in hours of effort doing research to be able to pull off a similar effect because they couldn't get all the contrast paints they wanted on the first production? Because I think you are going to be in a minority on that one.
Further do you think alternative companies are going to be able to produce a similar product before GW can do a second production? Do you think they will be able to establish their potential product like GW already has before GW does a second production? Because I don't think so.
Maybe, just maybe, things like new paint selling out is a generally acceptable event for people and they will just get the things they want on the second go.
|
|
|
|
|
2019/06/10 15:08:35
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Fixture of Dakka
|
Talizvar wrote: Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Except they're not exactly products one can buy from elsewhere.
Contrast Paints seem unique in the market. And they're getting more made.
That is the funny thing with supply and demand: people are lazy if supply is good.
When people cannot get their needed thing, they start looking for alternatives.
I am already participating on formulation discussions based on known materials:
Mat-medium
Flo-aid
Slo-dry
Acrylic pigment inks.
Distilled water
It really is just a matter of getting the proportions right, I only need to get my hands on one pot to figure it out.
Much of the shading results look like ringers for the old ink-wash techniques, it is just a shade / ink hybrid with a slo-dry to give the pigment time to settle and yet not flow everywhere.
Market can slow that tiny bit if people find other product that fills the need, it IS unique but I think reasonably easy to mimic.
They have a narrow window of time before the DIY methods are refined and then competitors get formulations out there.
Come on, there is no way you're going to mcgyver out their process before they simply produce more. Its totally reasonable that people can wait for more product.
To think it's going to be easy to mimic it feels like hubris as if it were so easy then this type of paint wouldnt be new. You need the chemical composition to figure out the formula.
|
Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500, |
|
|
|
2019/06/10 15:11:30
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
|
First I'll make my own contrast... then tomorrow, the world!!!
*lightning crashes in background*
Ya-huh...
Anyway, GW has finally revealed how they come up with their stupid paint names:
I demand a colour named Incomprehensible Eggplant.
|
|
|
|
|
2019/06/10 15:12:58
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
I think they opened for the Ramones last winter.
|
Thread Slayer |
|
|
|
2019/06/10 15:34:41
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Been Around the Block
|
Talizvar wrote: Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Except they're not exactly products one can buy from elsewhere.
Contrast Paints seem unique in the market. And they're getting more made.
That is the funny thing with supply and demand: people are lazy if supply is good.
When people cannot get their needed thing, they start looking for alternatives.
I am already participating on formulation discussions based on known materials:
Mat-medium
Flo-aid
Slo-dry
Acrylic pigment inks.
Distilled water
It really is just a matter of getting the proportions right, I only need to get my hands on one pot to figure it out.
Much of the shading results look like ringers for the old ink-wash techniques, it is just a shade / ink hybrid with a slo-dry to give the pigment time to settle and yet not flow everywhere.
Market can slow that tiny bit if people find other product that fills the need, it IS unique but I think reasonably easy to mimic.
They have a narrow window of time before the DIY methods are refined and then competitors get formulations out there.
It always amazes me the length people will go to in the pursuit of copying the amazing effort GW put in while not paying GW for doing it.
|
|
|
|
2019/06/10 16:20:18
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon
|
To Evil To Even Comprehend Eggplant... instant classic!
|
|
|
|
2019/06/10 16:22:14
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Battlefield Professional
Nottingham, England
|
Plus the point is that "competitor" brands won't be GW. GW is firmly leading the hobby for a ton of people. I find that t pretty entertaining that detractors of GW keep saying contrast is so easy to make, like dip etc But, if it's that easy, why is GW first to market ?
I can guarantee that only a minority of a minority is going to be trying to mix their own using 5 ingredients rather than wait a week for GW. I suspect most GW gamers are rather loyal to the brand to be honest.
GWs big bonus is consistent supply and lots of retailers. Yep, a little t of places sold out of contrast but there are reputable retailers with some of the lines still in stock like grey seer, the sprays etc
|
|
|
|
2019/06/10 16:24:03
Subject: Re:'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Virulent Space Marine dedicated to Nurgle
|
I've heard rumblings of contrast paint chipping on plastic miniatures, I know the paints aren't widely available yet, but has anyone experienced this?
|
|
|
|
|
2019/06/10 16:32:21
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
It's been mentioned here and there that they're more delicate than normal paints and require a coat of varnish to seal them down, which has me concerned. I'm wondering if that's an issue with the paints themselves or if it's because these primers are specifically smoother and don't have as much tooth for paint on top to grip onto. It's one of the reasons I want to try them out in person first, if they rub off too easily from handling then they aren't much good to me
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/10 16:34:11
|
|
|
|
2019/06/10 16:32:29
Subject: Re:'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Thermo-Optical Hac Tao
|
nurgle5 wrote:I've heard rumblings of contrast paint chipping on plastic miniatures, I know the paints aren't widely available yet, but has anyone experienced this?
They chipped on mine when I tried them out at warhammerfest, but I was carrying the models round loose in a cardboard tray. It dries quite thin though. I’d most likely put a varnish over them.
|
|
|
|
2019/06/10 16:48:49
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Kalamadea wrote:It's been mentioned here and there that they're more delicate than normal paints and require a coat of varnish to seal them down, which has me concerned. I'm wondering if that's an issue with the paints themselves or if it's because these primers are specifically smoother and don't have as much tooth for paint on top to grip onto. It's one of the reasons I want to try them out in person first, if they rub off too easily from handling then they aren't much good to me
They mentioned it in the "Science of Contrast" article. Contrast paint dries in a layer 1/10th the thickness of the base paints, so needs a coat of varnish.
|
|
|
|
2019/06/10 17:08:14
Subject: Re:'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine
|
They don't seem much different to the first lot of inks that GW did, those used to scratch if they were handled roughly enough. To be honest the contrast paints feel like the professional quality acrylic inks I used to use but (incredibly!) a little cheaper. The extra pigment and the flow medium will always compromise durability but a quick coat of varnish isn't much of a hardship is it?
|
|
|
|
2019/06/10 17:11:55
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
|
Think of them like the technical effect paints which also require a layer of varnish. It's honestly only one further layer atop so should seal down the models well and besides there's now both a gloss and mat paint on and spray varnishes.
|
|
|
|
|
2019/06/10 17:12:41
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
They mentioned it in the "Science of Contrast" article. Contrast paint dries in a layer 1/10th the thickness of the base paints, so needs a coat of varnish.
1/10th thickness shouldn't matter at all if it's properly bonding to the layer below. Every layer of paint (and varnish) is supposed to another and form a single homogeneous coat, if it's delaminating at a single layer that's a problem. Either the contrast formula itself doesn't adhere well and is fragile, or the special smoother primer isn't gripping as well as regular primer, either way is an issue. A coat of varnish will help but won't completely solve the issue as you're sealing over a fragile substrate and it's always going to be a potential point of failure.
I may be overthinking it because I work in the auto body & paint industry and we have to warranty all our paintwork for life of the vehicle, when there's an issue we spend a lot of time analyzing if it's a product failure or if it's a prep & application failure and how to resolve it
|
|
|
|
|
2019/06/10 17:22:22
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle
|
H.B.M.C. wrote:First I'll make my own contrast... then tomorrow, the world!!!
*lightning crashes in background*
Ya-huh...
Anyway, GW has finally revealed how they come up with their stupid paint names:
I demand a colour named Incomprehensible Eggplant.
My new phrase to express shock at anything GW related:
Well colour me Incomprehensible Eggplant and call me Sigmar. Automatically Appended Next Post: Kalamadea wrote:They mentioned it in the "Science of Contrast" article. Contrast paint dries in a layer 1/10th the thickness of the base paints, so needs a coat of varnish.
1/10th thickness shouldn't matter at all if it's properly bonding to the layer below. Every layer of paint (and varnish) is supposed to another and form a single homogeneous coat, if it's delaminating at a single layer that's a problem. Either the contrast formula itself doesn't adhere well and is fragile, or the special smoother primer isn't gripping as well as regular primer, either way is an issue. A coat of varnish will help but won't completely solve the issue as you're sealing over a fragile substrate and it's always going to be a potential point of failure.
I may be overthinking it because I work in the auto body & paint industry and we have to warranty all our paintwork for life of the vehicle, when there's an issue we spend a lot of time analyzing if it's a product failure or if it's a prep & application failure and how to resolve it
I wonder if it would work better with a primer underneath. GW have never been very good at differentiation between base coat and primer, and if this stuff chips I wonder if using a real primer first would help give it something to key too.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/10 17:33:29
insaniak wrote:Sometimes, Exterminatus is the only option.
And sometimes, it's just a case of too much scotch combined with too many buttons... |
|
|
|
2019/06/10 17:45:05
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
|
Kalamadea wrote:They mentioned it in the "Science of Contrast" article. Contrast paint dries in a layer 1/10th the thickness of the base paints, so needs a coat of varnish.
1/10th thickness shouldn't matter at all if it's properly bonding to the layer below. Every layer of paint (and varnish) is supposed to another and form a single homogeneous coat, if it's delaminating at a single layer that's a problem. Either the contrast formula itself doesn't adhere well and is fragile, or the special smoother primer isn't gripping as well as regular primer, either way is an issue. A coat of varnish will help but won't completely solve the issue as you're sealing over a fragile substrate and it's always going to be a potential point of failure.
I may be overthinking it because I work in the auto body & paint industry and we have to warranty all our paintwork for life of the vehicle, when there's an issue we spend a lot of time analyzing if it's a product failure or if it's a prep & application failure and how to resolve it
I think its just different product focus. GW isn't trying to make car paint but model paint and was going more for the quality of the paints flow rather than its resistance. Plus GW knows that if you're "serious" about paint you'll be paint/spraying a layer (at least one) of varnish over the top to seal the model anyway. So if one type of paint rubs off a bit more its not a huge issue as its not the final layer.
|
|
|
|
|
2019/06/10 18:05:19
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
The Last Chancer Who Survived
|
So these paints seem to be sold out already ... did GW ever say when they expect to have more available?
|
|
|
|
|
2019/06/10 18:10:39
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Lieutenant General
|
Necros wrote:So these paints seem to be sold out already ... did GW ever say when they expect to have more available?
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/06/10/contrast-not-just-the-red-ones-that-go-fasta/
|
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
|
|
|
2019/06/10 18:15:04
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
The Last Chancer Who Survived
|
oh, missed that .. i don't have a store nearby these days, i'll have to wait till it's back in the web store. Bet the other online shops will be sold out too, or it'll go faster than my memory will remind me to check.
|
|
|
|
|
2019/06/10 18:22:03
Subject: Re:'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Lieutenant General
|
This Friday on GW's Twitch channel they'll be having a 'Hang Out and Contrast' paint session with the Warhammer TV crew.
|
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
|
|
|
2019/06/10 18:29:27
Subject: Re:'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Ok that table has got quite a few legitimate giggles out of me
|
|
|
|
2019/06/10 18:32:25
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Glad it has "Blood" on both sides; just needs "Wolf" too
|
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
My deviantART Profile - Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Madness
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation |
|
|
|
2019/06/10 19:00:02
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon
|
It has Skull on both sides too.
This thing is amazing.
Extremely Stressful Brown
Fist Pink ??? ROFL
|
|
|
|
2019/06/10 19:03:22
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Thermo-Optical Hac Tao
|
oni wrote:
It has Skull on both sides too.
This thing is amazing.
Extremely Stressful Brown
Fist Pink ??? ROFL
Sigmar’s Cream.
|
|
|
|
2019/06/10 19:05:50
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?
|
ImAGeek wrote: oni wrote:
It has Skull on both sides too.
This thing is amazing.
Extremely Stressful Brown
Fist Pink ??? ROFL
Sigmar’s Cream.
I guess you start with fist pink and layer Sigmar’s Cream for emperors children
|
LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13
I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14 |
|
|
|
2019/06/10 19:11:55
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Powerful Ushbati
|
Kalamadea wrote:It's been mentioned here and there that they're more delicate than normal paints and require a coat of varnish to seal them down, which has me concerned. I'm wondering if that's an issue with the paints themselves or if it's because these primers are specifically smoother and don't have as much tooth for paint on top to grip onto. It's one of the reasons I want to try them out in person first, if they rub off too easily from handling then they aren't much good to me
Put a varnish on, and the problem goes away...
Don't we all varnish anyways?
|
|
|
|
2019/06/10 19:15:53
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
The Last Chancer Who Survived
|
I just realized you can use every name from the first column, and just Metal from the 2nd, and each will form a different and even-cooler-than-the-last style of head banging noise.
|
|
|
|
|
2019/06/10 19:35:14
Subject: Re:'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Fixture of Dakka
|
Decided to give it a fair crack-of-the-whip and will be pre-ordering Iyanden Yellow, Wrathbone and Greyseer on 16% discount. Got two Intercessors that need painting as Imperial Fists and yellow armour is a sod. Might fancy a Legio Gryphonicus Titan down the line too!
|
Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.
|
|
|
|
2019/06/10 19:36:43
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle
|
Togusa wrote: Kalamadea wrote:It's been mentioned here and there that they're more delicate than normal paints and require a coat of varnish to seal them down, which has me concerned. I'm wondering if that's an issue with the paints themselves or if it's because these primers are specifically smoother and don't have as much tooth for paint on top to grip onto. It's one of the reasons I want to try them out in person first, if they rub off too easily from handling then they aren't much good to me
Put a varnish on, and the problem goes away...
Don't we all varnish anyways?
Varnish may not help if the paint is not properly keyed to the layer below. It will still chip away, especially with matte varnish.
|
insaniak wrote:Sometimes, Exterminatus is the only option.
And sometimes, it's just a case of too much scotch combined with too many buttons... |
|
|
|
2019/06/10 19:45:26
Subject: 'Free Your Models - Contrast' paint range -- In stores June 15th, color charts and video pg. 34
|
|
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon
|
So what is the difference between Abaddon Black and the new Corvus Black? They're both Base paints and have the same description on the website.
|
|
|
|
|