So, is this the greatest nerf in 40k history? re: Ynnari nerfbat

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Amishprn86**

I was fine with the nerf till i read a lot of somments that says it is worded that i cant I play Yncarne with my solitaire anymore (I dont care about the Ynnari nerf, i just wanted Yncarne in my Harlequins with the Solitaire). SO feth GW if that is true.

**Eldarsif**

Aenar wrote:
Eldarsif wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
About time. Although I'm sure the competitive crowd will get off that bandwagon in droves now that's its not OP.

That just means more IG + IK in tourneys. Fun for days.

Ynnari were irritating to play against, that nerf was long overdue. Now we wait for the IG and Castellan nerf in the FAQ.

I think the difference is that over the past year we have seen nerfs to Ynnari even though were gradual up until now. IG + Castellan, however, have been allowed to be in peace for the most part.

I guess the Big FAQ will tell, although I believe we won't see that much nerfing in it as many assume. At best I believe we'll see some beta rules or suggestions to level the playing field more than anything else.

For the record I've played Ynnari myself three times since they were originally released so this nerf won't affect me as much.

**Burnage**

The more I think about this change, the more I think it's potentially a buff to Ynnari as a cohesive army. The old Strength From Death strongly encouraged you to just have a small Ynnari detachment with a big unit of Spears and Dark Reapers, whereas this feels more like you could plausibly have a whole Ynnari list. It's really going to be the stratagems and psychic powers that make or break it.

In particular I can see Harlequins being potentially interesting with the new SFD, as they get to keep Rising Crescendo and gain +1 to hit in melee.

**Shadenuat**

Harlequins and DE might get something out of this. Craftworlds though? Just due to 18 psychic powers alone we might want to stay pure.

**Amishprn86**

Burnage wrote:
The more I think about this change, the more I think it's potentially a buff to Ynnari as a cohesive army. The old Strength From Death strongly encouraged you to just have a small Ynnari detachment with a big unit of Spears and Dark Reapers, whereas this feels more like you could plausibly have a whole Ynnari list. It's really going to be the stratagems and psychic powers that make or break it.

In particular I can see Harlequins being potentially interesting with the new SFD, as they get to keep Rising Crescendo and gain +1 to hit in melee.

And no Solitaire, cant have it with a Ynnari detachment or character, why take quins if you cant take a solitaire? You'll need 2 detachments.... But no.. Imperial can spend 1Cp for any assassin they want..

**Jancoran**

A collective sigh of relief was heard.

**Pain4Pleasure**

Jancoran wrote:
A collective sigh of relief was heard.

I see Dakka isn’t learning.. we have 5% of the rules exposed. Still psychic powers relics strats everything. I can’t wait until a broken combo is discovered and then people are all “no no nerf again nerf again! The ynnari is unfair oh woe is me and my stupid non aeldari army!”

**Burnage**

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
A collective sigh of relief was heard.

I see Dakka isn’t learning.. we have 5% of the rules exposed. Still psychic powers relics strats everything. I can’t wait until a broken combo is discovered and then people are all “no no nerf again nerf again! The ynnari is unfair oh woe is me and my stupid non aeldari army!”

Eh. Even if their psychic powers and stratagems turn out to be absolutely outrageous, the new Ynnari are really going to struggle to produce anything that's anywhere near as bad as Ynnari Reapers and Shining Spears have been in the past.

**Pain4Pleasure**

Burnage wrote:
Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
A collective sigh of relief was heard.

I see Dakka isn’t learning.. we have 5% of the rules exposed. Still psychic powers relics strats everything. I can’t wait until a broken combo is discovered and then people are all “no no nerf again nerf again! The ynnari is unfair oh woe is me and my stupid non aeldari army!”

Eh. Even if their psychic powers and stratagems turn out to be absolutely outrageous, the new Ynnari are really going to struggle to produce anything that's anywhere near as bad as Ynnari Reapers and Shining Spears have been in the past.

You’re saying this with know knowledge of the relics strats or powers at all. For all we know a combo will make something else just as broken. Plus reapers and Spears has a points increase due to double actions. I expect GW to decrease their points since the reason their points were increased in the first place is no longer a thing.

**Burnage**

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Burnage wrote:
Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
A collective sigh of relief was heard.

I see Dakka isn’t learning.. we have 5% of the rules exposed. Still psychic powers relics strats everything. I can’t wait until a broken combo is discovered and then people are all “no no nerf again nerf again! The ynnari is unfair oh woe is me and my stupid non aeldari army!”

Eh. Even if their psychic powers and stratagems turn out to be absolutely outrageous, the new Ynnari are really going to struggle to produce anything that's anywhere near as bad as Ynnari Reapers and Shining Spears have been in the past.

You’re saying this with know knowledge of the relics strats or powers at all. For all we know a combo will make something else just as broken. Plus reapers and Spears has a points increase due to double actions. I expect GW to decrease their points since the reason their points were increased in the first place is no longer a thing.

I mean, yes, I'm saying this because unless any of their relics, strats and psychic powers are absolutely absurd no combination is going to reach the heights of "Every unit in your army can potentially take two bonus actions a round for free". There have been complaints about Ynnari for very good reasons.

**Karol**

that detachment that links two units and lets both proc the new death thingy, if one gets it seems fun. Not saying it is ground breaking with the heavy nerf to it, but it seems to me, someone who knows little about playing eldar, as fun.

**ERJAK**

BaconCatBug wrote:
https://old.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/bhu5jw/new_ynnari_rules_leak/

So, the New Zealand page for the White Dwarf is up. You can read the general army rules in a picture.

No named characters in Ynnari other than the 3 Ynnari specifics. And no Solitaire

Basically, no more using non Ynnari stratagems and psychic powers on Ynnari units. Also, they replace the <Faction> with Reborn Eldar-Type.

Beasts, Scourges, and Incubi can be included in Ynnari armies without breaking solid detachment rules but don't get Strength From Death, either.

Including the characters in a detachment lets you decide if it is a standard Craftworld, Drukhari, or Harlequins without giving up specific faction bonuses (but no such bonus for the Ynnari character.) Alternatively, you can decide that it is an Ynnari Detachment and all units gain Ynnari keyword (and faction changes mentioned above).

Strength From Death: (effects all Ynnari units in a Battle Forged non Superheavy Auxiliary detachment)

Once any unit dies all Ynnari units get to benefit from "Soulburst actions" which seems to be an Always Strike First (alternate with chargers, etc) for the rest of the turn. If the Ynnari unit had an Always Strike First type rule or charged that turn they can add 1 to their to hit rolls with melee weapons that turn.

No word if there are other things involved with "Soulburst actions" or if that was just flavor text now.

www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/White-Dwarf-May-EN-2019

So, it seems that GW finally realised that in a game with limited turns and actions being able to have your entire army act twice as many times as the enemy was a little unbalanced.

What's your opinion on the nerf? Are Ynnari an non-viable army on the scale of Grey Knights now, a mid level army or will the nerfs do nothing and the 5th round of nerfs still not do their job?

Considering Ynnari are easily the strongest overall army in the game right now, they had to change something if they wanted to give them more toys. Who knows though? Might have gone too far.

**NexAddo**

Considering Ynnari are easily the strongest overall army in the game right now, they had to change something if they wanted to give them more toys. Who knows though? Might have gone too far.

With the exception of imperium Soup with a Castellan or Knights in general you mean?

Also Ynnari in a Good players hand. Very strong.
Ynnari in a bad players hand. Average (CW has a much lower skill curve).

Knight in a Good players hand. Very Strong.
Knights in a noob's hand. Very Strong.
Very little skill curve. Very unfun to watch and play against. Seen many a new player come up against a Knight or Knight army and almost get put off 40k altogether.

They needed a nerf something like using CP to activate Soul BUrst. Many armies have fight again Strategems so to be fair if there is a PP that allows a Squad to shoot and a Strategem that allows a squad to fight again Ynnari may become a well balanced army.

Here's hoping.

**Pain4Pleasure**

NexAddo wrote:
Considering Ynnari are easily the strongest overall army in the game right now, they had to change something if they wanted to give them more toys. Who knows though? Might have gone too far.

With the exception of imperium Soup with a Castellan or Knights in general you mean?

Also Ynnari in a Good players hand. Very strong.
Ynnari in a bad players hand. Average (CW has a much lower skill curve).

Knight in a Good players hand. Very Strong.
Knights in a noob's hand. Very Strong.
Very little skill curve. Very unfun to watch and play against. Seen many a new player come up against a Knight or Knight army and almost get put off 40k altogether.

They needed a nerf something like using CP to activate Soul BUrst. Many armies have fight again Strategems so to be fair if there is a PP that allows a Squad to shoot and a Strategem that allows a squad to fight again Ynnari may become a well balanced army.

Here's hoping.

Perfectly said. Most people have a hate for aeldari and want to see them fall. They are ok with their broken stuff, though

**Jancoran**

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
A collective sigh of relief was heard.

I see Dakka isn’t learning.. we have 5% of the rules exposed. Still psychic powers relics strats everything. I can’t wait until a broken combo is discovered and then people are all “no no nerf again nerf again! The ynnari is unfair oh woe is me and my stupid non aeldari army!”

...or its nerfed. I mean...positing either way is fine. The fact that its already stupid should be a good indicator of which direction its going.

**dkoz**

But you have to buy the white dwarf for this update so why even buy it. Most tournaments probably will let players use the Yannari 8th ed stuff they have so if the WD nerf is that bad most players probably just won't use it.

**Ghaz**

dkoz wrote:
But you have to buy the white dwarf for this update so why even buy it. Most tournaments probably will let players use the Yannari 8th ed stuff they have so if the WD nerf is that bad most players probably just won't use it.

I fully expect to see the 'Index' articles from White Dwarf published in Chapter Approved at the end of the year, with or without changes.

**Pain4Pleasure**

Ghaz wrote:
dkoz wrote:
But you have to buy the white dwarf for this update so why even buy it. Most tournaments probably will let players use the Yannari 8th ed stuff they have so if the WD nerf is that bad most players probably just won't use it.

I fully expect to see the 'Index' articles from White Dwarf published in Chapter Approved at the end of the year, with or without changes.

He is saying until then players can just play the old way

**dkoz**

Ghaz wrote:
dkoz wrote:
But you have to buy the white dwarf for this update so why even buy it. Most tournaments probably will let players use the Yannari 8th ed stuff they have so if the WD nerf is that bad most players probably just won't use it.

I fully expect to see the 'Index' articles from White Dwarf published in Chapter Approved at the end of the year, with or without changes.

I imagine that's likely what will happen but until such time what sane player would use rules that dramatically hurt their army?

**BaconCatBug**

Well by that logic I'll keep using my un-nerfed commissars and conscripts.

You have to use the latest rules, it's the only way the game can function.

**dkoz**

BaconCatBug wrote:
Well by that logic I'll keep using my un-nerfed commissars and conscripts.

You have to use the latest rules, it's the only way the game can function.

No until chapter approved is released players shouldn't be forced to use a publication you can't get your hands on a month after it comes out. No tournament circuit could function well that way. Also that would mean any new player that wanted to pick up the army 3 months from that WD is going to have to go back to find an old monthly publication just so they can play their new are, that seems foolish.

**Daedalus81**

dkoz wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
Well by that logic I'll keep using my un-nerfed commissars and conscripts.

You have to use the latest rules, it's the only way the game can function.

No until chapter approved is released players shouldn't be forced to use a publication you can't get your hands on a month after it comes out. No tournament circuit could function well that way. Also that would mean any new player that wanted to pick up the army 3 months from that WD is going to have to go back to find an old monthly publication just so they can play their new are, that seems foolish.

This is a little silly and doesn't reflect reality of the information age. We'll be just fine.

**Amishprn86**

dkoz wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
Well by that logic I'll keep using my un-nerfed commissars and conscripts.

You have to use the latest rules, it's the only way the game can function.

No until chapter approved is released players shouldn't be forced to use a publication you can't get your hands on a month after it comes out. No tournament circuit could function well that way. Also that would mean any new player that wanted to pick up the army 3 months from that WD is going to have to go back to find an old monthly publication just so they can play their new are, that seems foolish.

Well that is what is happening with assassin rules right now....

**SHUPPET**

dkoz wrote:But you have to buy the white dwarf for this update so why even buy it. Most tournaments probably will let players use the Yannari 8th ed stuff they have so if the WD nerf is that bad most players probably just won't use it.

That is absolutely not how any respectable tournament will handle it.

**BaconCatBug**

dkoz wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
Well by that logic I'll keep using my un-nerfed commissars and conscripts.

You have to use the latest rules, it's the only way the game can function.

No until chapter approved is released players shouldn't be forced to use a publication you can't get your hands on a month after it comes out. No tournament circuit could function well that way. Also that would mean any new player that wanted to pick up the army 3 months from that WD is going to have to go back to find an old monthly publication just so they can play their new are, that seems foolish.

Ebay is a thing.

**Pain4Pleasure**

BaconCatBug wrote:
dkoz wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
Well by that logic I'll keep using my un-nerfed commissars and conscripts.

You have to use the latest rules, it's the only way the game can function.

No until chapter approved is released players shouldn't be forced to use a publication you can't get your hands on a month after it comes out. No tournament circuit could function well that way. Also that would mean any new player that wanted to pick up the army 3 months from that WD is going to have to go back to find an old monthly publication just so they can play their new are, that seems foolish.
Ebay is a thing.

A tournament should not allow unofficial copies of rules. So tel me how a player plays the new ynnari if there is no copies for purchase and no illegal copies allowed? And saying “he can’t” isnt an option. Answer? Index. Yay! We found a way around the bad rules until chapter approved. People will hate it but hey, they can go cry

**BaconCatBug**

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
dkoz wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
Well by that logic I'll keep using my un-nerfed commissars and conscripts.

You have to use the latest rules, it's the only way the game can function.

No until chapter approved is released players shouldn't be forced to use a publication you can't get your hands on a month after it comes out. No tournament circuit could function well that way. Also that would mean any new player that wanted to pick up the army 3 months from that WD is going to have to go back to find an old monthly publication just so they can play their new are, that seems foolish.
Ebay is a thing.

A tournament should not allow unofficial copies of rules. So tel me how a player plays the new ynnari if there is no copies for purchase and no illegal copies allowed? And saying “he can’t” isnt an option. Answer? Index. Yay! We found a way around the bad rules until chapter approved. People will hate it but hey, they can go cry

If you're a tournament player, you have the obligation to get the newest rules. Don't like it, Don't play in tournaments.

**Burnage**

I mean, we're happily talking about a good chunk of the rules before the relevant White Dwarf has even been released. Tournament players will be fine.

**Pain4Pleasure**

BaconCatBug wrote:
Pain4Pleasure wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
dkoz wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
Well by that logic I'll keep using my un-nerfed commissars and conscripts.

You have to use the latest rules, it's the only way the game can function.

No until chapter approved is released players shouldn't be forced to use a publication you can't get your hands on a month after it comes out. No tournament circuit could function well that way. Also that would mean any new player that wanted to pick up the army 3 months from that WD is going to have to go back to find an old monthly publication just so they can play their new are, that seems foolish.
Ebay is a thing.

A tournament should not allow unofficial copies of rules. So tel me how a player plays the new ynnari if there is no copies for purchase and no illegal copies allowed? And saying “he can’t” isnt an option. Answer? Index. Yay! We found a way around the bad rules until chapter approved. People will hate it but hey, they can go cry
If you're a tournament player, you have the obligation to get the newest rules. Don't like it, Don't play in tournaments.

Oof can you show me the rules for that? I don’t think there is. Honestly you always say your by raw. Raw show me where I can’t play a tourney with unobtainable rules? Oh there isn’t?

**Amishprn86**

Yep, and its why i ordered my WD via my local, b.c if i do want to play i need the rules. I missed out on the assassins, i'm not letting that happen again.