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So, is this the greatest nerf in 40k history? re: Ynnari nerfbat  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




No, dark reapers are still undercosted even for a base Eldar list. They got a points increase because they have 55 pts of rules on a sub 40 point model.
   
Made in bg
Dakka Veteran




Martel732 wrote:
No, dark reapers are still undercosted even for a base Eldar list. They got a points increase because they have 55 pts of rules on a sub 40 point model.


You know you are not right. 1 unit of dr is like 2 tanks that reroll their main guns hit,. reroll 1`s and are T8 12 wound models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 bullyboy wrote:
 Phaeron Gukk wrote:
If I'm reading it correctly, Succubi and Archons replace all instances of their relevant keywords in their datasheet with the same <Reborn Drukhari> keyword. Therefore my question is, can Ynnari Archons can buff Ynnari Wyches and vis versa?


It looks like it, as both keywords are replaced with Reborn Drukhari keyword


yea wucches hitting on 2 and rerolling 1 looks interesting

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/28 17:25:45


 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I stand by my analysis. They have a lot of crazy advantages. They are undercosted significantly. If your rebuttal is the command Russ, you basically just conceded.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/04/28 17:26:58


 
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre



california

Martel732 wrote:
No, dark reapers are still undercosted even for a base Eldar list. They got a points increase because they have 55 pts of rules on a sub 40 point model.


Oof how wrong you are. I fully expect a points drop. Blood angels I think should raise a few ppm as a whole though from what I’ve read about their OP combos
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




They're already unsuable, so what does it matter? I think GW should have squatted them with Nids.

But it nice to see an Eldar nerf once a decade. Next nerf due about 2030.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/28 17:28:24


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Martel732 wrote:
No, dark reapers are still undercosted even for a base Eldar list. They got a points increase because they have 55 pts of rules on a sub 40 point model.

Are the eldar trolls already trying to claim that they need points reductions on every unit as they no longer have multiple free activations, but still have the most untargetable army lists with -2 and charictors.

But wow is the ekdar player that needs units more broken than a guardsmen to have a chance of winning.
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre



california

Martel732 wrote:
They're already unsuable, so what does it matter? I think GW should have squatted them with Nids.

But it nice to see an Eldar nerf once a decade. Next nerf due about 2030.

Shining spears need to be 29 ppm again, and reapers would be good at 32 ppm
   
Made in bg
Dakka Veteran




Martel732 wrote:
I stand by my analysis. They have a lot of crazy advantages. They are undercosted significantly. If your rebuttal is the command Russ, you basically just conceded.


I don`t see any analysis, it look to me you are just spreading raw fanatical believe without any arguments.

   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




How do you price ignoring to hit penalties alone?
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Marin wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I stand by my analysis. They have a lot of crazy advantages. They are undercosted significantly. If your rebuttal is the command Russ, you basically just conceded.


I don`t see any analysis, it look to me you are just spreading raw fanatical believe without any arguments.


There's a reason for that.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in ru
Screaming Shining Spear




Russia, Moscow

Dark Reapers cost same as Long Fangs with ML, but perform in CW army massively better. Making them cheaper would simply be not fair, especially while Tempest Launcher and Exarches with a free re-roll 1's exist. Spears could maybe use a drop, but not by much, if at all.

Scorpions, Banshees, Hawks and Spiders could use a buff.

But I don't think GW changed prices to fit Ynnari, I think they changed them to fall in line with other options in CW Codex.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/28 17:42:55


 
   
Made in bg
Dakka Veteran




pm713 wrote:
Marin wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I stand by my analysis. They have a lot of crazy advantages. They are undercosted significantly. If your rebuttal is the command Russ, you basically just conceded.


I don`t see any analysis, it look to me you are just spreading raw fanatical believe without any arguments.


There's a reason for that.


Eldar hate from previous editions ?
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Marin wrote:
pm713 wrote:
Marin wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I stand by my analysis. They have a lot of crazy advantages. They are undercosted significantly. If your rebuttal is the command Russ, you basically just conceded.


I don`t see any analysis, it look to me you are just spreading raw fanatical believe without any arguments.


There's a reason for that.


Eldar hate from previous editions ?

In fairness to Martel I've seen him express hate for most things based on previous editions.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran





Competitively this is almost certainly the biggest nerf in 8th. Ynnari just went from top tables competitive to trash tier overnight.

--- 
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre



california

 slave.entity wrote:
Competitively this is almost certainly the biggest nerf in 8th. Ynnari just went from top tables competitive to trash tier overnight.

Agreed. Depending on FAQ we will see where the other 3 aeldari forces stand
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Marin wrote:
pm713 wrote:
Marin wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I stand by my analysis. They have a lot of crazy advantages. They are undercosted significantly. If your rebuttal is the command Russ, you basically just conceded.


I don`t see any analysis, it look to me you are just spreading raw fanatical believe without any arguments.


There's a reason for that.


Eldar hate from previous editions ?

It's been mathed out everyway that people could propose to justify their original points costings and time and time again it simple came down to they outperformed every comparable unit.

If you want to go math it all out in a seperate thread go ahead, but just screaming that the world has ended because your not getting 12 turns of sgooting out of Dark Reapers and 12 CC rounds out of Shining Spears doesn't automatically mean that they should be half their points as some are claiming.
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre



california

Ice_can wrote:
Marin wrote:
pm713 wrote:
Marin wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I stand by my analysis. They have a lot of crazy advantages. They are undercosted significantly. If your rebuttal is the command Russ, you basically just conceded.


I don`t see any analysis, it look to me you are just spreading raw fanatical believe without any arguments.


There's a reason for that.


Eldar hate from previous editions ?

It's been mathed out everyway that people could propose to justify their original points costings and time and time again it simple came down to they outperformed every comparable unit.

If you want to go math it all out in a seperate thread go ahead, but just screaming that the world has ended because your not getting 12 turns of sgooting out of Dark Reapers and 12 CC rounds out of Shining Spears doesn't automatically mean that they should be half their points as some are claiming.

You don’t watch frontline gaming podcasts do you? They playtest for GW rulesets and give feedback. In a more recent podcast they specifically stated they hate when people think similar units need similar cost. Some armies will be better and cheaper at things than others. Others make armies with same units different look across the board. They need a price drop now. I don’t care what your math hammer says.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Compare a reaper to missile launcher dev. Now justify their cost.
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre



california

Martel732 wrote:
Compare a reaper to missile launcher dev. Now justify their cost.

Read above comment
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Martel732 wrote:
Compare a reaper to missile launcher dev. Now justify their cost.

They won't do it as they aren't interested in actually having a productive discussion about balanced rules they are either just out to troll or they're so bad they just want undercosted units with special rules and strategums for free.

They aren't truly interested in having their army balanced they just wanted GW to make Yannari even more broken.
I'm sure one poster would think eldar having a 90% win rate in a tournament would be fair and balanced.

It's a shame though as I'm sure a number of people who picked up Yannari for the fluff and build casual lists and had casual games are going to be feeling the pain most while the trolls and tournament players just move on to another flavour of Eldar soup.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/28 18:30:04


 
   
Made in us
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Removed - BrookM

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/30 06:55:53


 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
Marin wrote:
pm713 wrote:
Marin wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I stand by my analysis. They have a lot of crazy advantages. They are undercosted significantly. If your rebuttal is the command Russ, you basically just conceded.


I don`t see any analysis, it look to me you are just spreading raw fanatical believe without any arguments.


There's a reason for that.


Eldar hate from previous editions ?

It's been mathed out everyway that people could propose to justify their original points costings and time and time again it simple came down to they outperformed every comparable unit.

If you want to go math it all out in a seperate thread go ahead, but just screaming that the world has ended because your not getting 12 turns of sgooting out of Dark Reapers and 12 CC rounds out of Shining Spears doesn't automatically mean that they should be half their points as some are claiming.

You don’t watch frontline gaming podcasts do you? They playtest for GW rulesets and give feedback. In a more recent podcast they specifically stated they hate when people think similar units need similar cost. Some armies will be better and cheaper at things than others. Others make armies with same units different look across the board. They need a price drop now. I don’t care what your math hammer says.
I would love to hear your justification for why Craftworld Eldar need cheap Reapers to function as an army.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Similar units should have a similar cost. Thats the whole point of cost. I hate it when frontline denies math.

Points are a measure of value conferred on the table. Units with more capabilities should cost more, regardless of codex.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/04/28 18:23:56


 
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre



california

Martel732 wrote:
Similar units should have a similar cost. Thats the whole point of cost. I hate it when frontline denies math.

Points are a measure of value conferred on the table.



Sorry if you don’t agree with the people who help establish points costs and rules? Take over their job I guess if you would be so good at it. I’m sure GW would hire you.
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Similar units should have a similar cost. Thats the whole point of cost. I hate it when frontline denies math.

Points are a measure of value conferred on the table.



Sorry if you don’t agree with the people who help establish points costs and rules? Take over their job I guess if you would be so good at it. I’m sure GW would hire you.


I am kinda torn, on one side i can agree that differing armies can have differing cost for units that are equalish, on the other hand Frontline seems to belive that gaps like the Cultist-Guardsmen are perfectly fine now.

and this is just one such incident.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




Pain4Pleasure 774684 10428706 wrote:

You don’t watch frontline gaming podcasts do you? They playtest for GW rulesets and give feedback. In a more recent podcast they specifically stated they hate when people think similar units need similar cost. Some armies will be better and cheaper at things than others. Others make armies with same units different look across the board. They need a price drop now. I don’t care what your math hammer says.


Yeah right, GK players have been saying both things. They compared their stuff to other armies. No response. Then showed how internaly GK codex is boosted. And GW drops the point cost... on the GM NDK, the only unit GK player if they could they would spam. I don't know who the frontline gaming people are, but they are wrong if they think talking anything to GW can change, just because you tell stuff this or that way. They change stuff only in two ways. They change them the way they did dark reapers, where no amount of nerfs could make them a bad unit no one would ever take. Or they kill a unit, army or faction, with no recovery.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre



california

Karol wrote:
Pain4Pleasure 774684 10428706 wrote:

You don’t watch frontline gaming podcasts do you? They playtest for GW rulesets and give feedback. In a more recent podcast they specifically stated they hate when people think similar units need similar cost. Some armies will be better and cheaper at things than others. Others make armies with same units different look across the board. They need a price drop now. I don’t care what your math hammer says.


Yeah right, GK players have been saying both things. They compared their stuff to other armies. No response. Then showed how internaly GK codex is boosted. And GW drops the point cost... on the GM NDK, the only unit GK player if they could they would spam. I don't know who the frontline gaming people are, but they are wrong if they think talking anything to GW can change, just because you tell stuff this or that way. They change stuff only in two ways. They change them the way they did dark reapers, where no amount of nerfs could make them a bad unit no one would ever take. Or they kill a unit, army or faction, with no recovery.

Frontline gaming works for GW in rules testing and assisting with appropriate points costings
   
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If frontline is responsible for the cultist/guardsmen thing, then they have negative credibilty.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/28 18:31:47


 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran





Ynnari used to have a lot more identity when the entire theme focused on running mixed detachments of CWE, DE, and Harlequins. But the Battle Brothers rule killed that.

And, if I'm not mistaken, we can already soup CWE/DE/Harlequins in separate detachments without having to run Ynnari. So at this point, the only thing the Ynnari faction does for your eldar soup list is tack on a weak Ynnari character and some uninspired CC-oriented strats/relics/traits. Ynnari will now be a niche, low-tier faction for people that want to play... close-combat Eldar... without covens... lol...

--- 
   
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california

Martel732 wrote:
If frontline is responsible for the cultist/guardsmen thing, then they have negative credibilty.

Your opinion. Not mine.
   
 
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