April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs)

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**Ice_can**

Insectum7 wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
Daedalus81 wrote:
ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG

No, because Ynnari, Lootas, and Castellans have fallen off the charts. That potentially makes room for them.

To be fair non of those where the real reasons marines don't work, they simply cannot compete with IG codex for souping potential and competitive mono isn't likely to suddenly become the new meta.

IG still never felt nearly as difficult to face as the Ynnari or the Castellan+friends. And a lot of the time a major ingredient for the Guard soup was the Castellan anyways. If I can aim the amount of effort it took to knock out that 3++ Castellan at LR Command tanks instead, the tanks vaporize. I feel like the FAQ will definitely open up my options a bit more a marine player.

Think you misinterpreted my point it's not that mono guard (as annoying as they are) are better than imperial soup it's that Guard will always be the better choice for imperial soup lists over marine infantry.

**Insectum7**

Daedalus81 wrote:

Of course not, but it's existence was a wet blanket to running larger units of more elite marines

So are a lot of things, though. The amount of high AP, multiwound weapons out there is pretty high.

**Ice_can**

Daedalus81 wrote:
Ice_can wrote:

Dissy Cannons don't need DOOM against Marine's never have.

Of course not, but it's existence was a wet blanket to running larger units of more elite marines as well as more mono DE lists needing lances now.

Again marines are imperial they arn't exactlly fighting with guard for that brigade/battalion CP powerhouse spot

They don't need to be a CP powerhouse.

and outaide of BA smash command aren't realy beating out custodes for that screen skipping CC punch.

I think you'll find some quite interesting CSM builds coming into focus. When Primaris get their next wave the loyalists will get interesting.

GW have had 2 years and haven't made primaris marines a competitive choice yet, unless they are just going to flat about make the soft squating blatant and make old marines and primaris the same points, they loose out way to much when you point battlr cannons etc at them.

**Insectum7**

Ice_can wrote:

Think you misinterpreted my point it's not that mono guard (as annoying as they are) are better than imperial soup it's that Guard will always be the better choice for imperial soup lists over marine infantry.

I think that depends a lot on the mission of the soup-ingredient you're looking for, and with the Castellan nerf the soup might shift to allow some marine flavors, depending on what synergies you're looking for.

**Bharring**

GW very clearly decided not to buff "OldMarines" in CA2018. It's not going to happen.

**ccs**

Xenomancers wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
The ability to insta-pop someone with either death grip or GSC mental onslaught has been removed - both now automatically fail if the defending model rolls a natural 6.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hand Flamers appear to have been updated to the D6 profile from the GSC codex for everybody.

Metal onslaught was just broken RAW, deathgrip taking 2 nerfs in the same FAQ was probably unnecessary.
Castellen is very dead now, expect to see them going for pennies on Ebay shortly.

Not really. If anything they are even better now - their biggest threats got nerfed. Doom/Jinx only effect CWE. Ynnari are dumpstered. I promise you every single castellan player would take 100 points out of their list to never have to play Ynnari and still win. 4++ Castellan is still really hard to kill. It's just not impossible. Plus Crusaders are much more appealing now. This is a good change.

And GW gains the most since they're about to sell all the Castellan players 2 Crusaders (or whatever).

**Insectum7**

Bharring wrote:
GW very clearly decided not to buff "OldMarines" in CA2018. It's not going to happen.

I disagree, some of the point shifts from December were quite significant.

**Martel732**

Not nearly significant enough.

**Not Online!!!**

Marin wrote:
Zontarz wrote:
If I’m reading this right LRBTs can now fire twice in overwatch, and if they are Cadian they get to re-rolls ones as well since it’s “count-as” the shooting phase?

Holy emperor...

Does that means dark reapers hit on 3 on overtwatch, since its like in the shooting phase ?
3 mounts waiting and than we need errata on the big faq.

This, if true, will turn ugly fast.

**Insectum7**

Martel732 wrote:
Not nearly significant enough.

If you happened to have a lot of Storm Shields it was

I just think the pot is stirring pretty quickly in terms of balance and there's enough moving parts to take a bit of time to sort out. The Castellan and Ynnari in particular have probably been suppressing the viability of other possibilities that are as-yet unseen.

**Horst**

Insectum7 wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Not nearly significant enough.
If you happened to have a lot of Storm Shields it was

I just think the pot is stirring pretty quickly in terms of balance and there's enough moving parts to take a bit of time to sort out. The Castellan and Ynnari in particular have probably been suppressing the viability of other possibilities that are as-yet unseen.

Certainly. Tank Commanders have started to see the light, I'd expect to see a LOT more of them going forward now that the biggest reason you didn't take them is gone. No more losing 2 tanks turn 1 guaranteed against a Castellan list.

**Martel732**

The storm shields changed almost nothing for me.

**Pandabeer**

Zontarz wrote:
If I’m reading this right LRBTs can now fire twice in overwatch, and if they are Cadian they get to re-rolls ones as well since it’s “count-as” the shooting phase?

Holy emperor...

Exactly where are you seeing that? I can't find it.

**Daedalus81**

Not Online!!! wrote:
Marin wrote:
Zontarz wrote:
If I’m reading this right LRBTs can now fire twice in overwatch, and if they are Cadian they get to re-rolls ones as well since it’s “count-as” the shooting phase?

Holy emperor...

Does that means dark reapers hit on 3 on overtwatch, since its like in the shooting phase ?
3 mounts waiting and than we need errata on the big faq.

This, if true, will turn ugly fast.

Jesus guys come on. Being "in the shooting phase" doesn't remove this sentence.

Overwatch isresolved like a normal
shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy’s Charge
phase) and uses all the normal rules except that a 6 is
always required for a successful hitroll, irrespective of the
firing model’s Ballistic Skill or any modifiers.

**mokoshkana**

Not Online!!! wrote:
Marin wrote:
Zontarz wrote:
If I’m reading this right LRBTs can now fire twice in overwatch, and if they are Cadian they get to re-rolls ones as well since it’s “count-as” the shooting phase?

Holy emperor...

Does that means dark reapers hit on 3 on overtwatch, since its like in the shooting phase ?
3 mounts waiting and than we need errata on the big faq.

This, if true, will turn ugly fast.

Overwatch specifies that things only happen on 6's. Just because it is as if it were "the shooting phase," does not not override overwatch.

Ninja'd....

**Ghaz**

From the Codex Space Marines FAQ:

Q: If I use the Hellfire Shells or Flakk Missile Stratagem and I hit, do I continue to roll to wound and do damage normally in addition to doing mortal wounds?

A: No, the normal attack sequence ends.

I remember seeing this one going around and around in YMDC a while back. Glad that it's finally answered.

**Bharring**

1. The ability to hit on a 3+ is neither a Ballistic Skill nor a Modifier - it's a specific roll needed.

2. Per the FAQ, if there are two such rules in effect, you apply the attacker's rule instead of the defender's rule - so the Reaper's rule would trump.

3. This is dumb - there's no way I'd play it with Reapers hitting on overwatch on a 3+.

**Insectum7**

Yeah can we not make the Reapers thing the new "Obliterators are still 65 points!"?

**Daedalus81**

Bharring wrote:
1. The ability to hit on a 3+ is neither a Ballistic Skill nor a Modifier - it's a specific roll needed.

2. Per the FAQ, if there are two such rules in effect, you apply the attacker's rule instead of the defender's rule - so the Reaper's rule would trump.

3. This is dumb - there's no way I'd play it with Reapers hitting on overwatch on a 3+.

Yes, it will never fly in the real world so best people just put in an email and then leave it alone.

Also LRBTs won't double tap on OW since they can shoot twice "in the following shooing phase".

**EnTyme**

Can someone post the exact wording of the relevant rule for Reapers?

**Insectum7**

Daedalus81 wrote:
Bharring wrote:
1. The ability to hit on a 3+ is neither a Ballistic Skill nor a Modifier - it's a specific roll needed.

2. Per the FAQ, if there are two such rules in effect, you apply the attacker's rule instead of the defender's rule - so the Reaper's rule would trump.

3. This is dumb - there's no way I'd play it with Reapers hitting on overwatch on a 3+.

Yes, it will never fly in the real world so best people just put in an email and then leave it alone.

Also LRBTs won't double tap on OW since they can shoot twice "in the following shooing phase".

Niiiice catch.

**mokoshkana**

Bharring wrote:
1. The ability to hit on a 3+ is neither a Ballistic Skill nor a Modifier - it's a specific roll needed.

2. Per the FAQ, if there are two such rules in effect, you apply the attacker's rule instead of the defender's rule - so the Reaper's rule would trump.

3. This is dumb - there's no way I'd play it with Reapers hitting on overwatch on a 3+.

In this instance, the defender does not have an ability, it is the Overwatch rule specifically. As such, that most certainly supersedes any attacker special rules.

**Zontarz**

Marin wrote:
Zontarz wrote:
If I’m reading this right LRBTs can now fire twice in overwatch, and if they are Cadian they get to re-rolls ones as well since it’s “count-as” the shooting phase?

Holy emperor...

Does that means dark reapers hit on 3 on overtwatch, since its like in the shooting phase ?
3 mounts waiting and than we need errata on the big faq.

No, your Eldar FAQ states otherwise

**mokoshkana**

Zontarz wrote:
Marin wrote:
Zontarz wrote:
If I’m reading this right LRBTs can now fire twice in overwatch, and if they are Cadian they get to re-rolls ones as well since it’s “count-as” the shooting phase?

Holy emperor...

Does that means dark reapers hit on 3 on overtwatch, since its like in the shooting phase ?
3 mounts waiting and than we need errata on the big faq.

No, your Eldar FAQ states otherwise

Correct. This is specifically addressed in the CWE FAQ. Good catch!

**Zontarz**

As stated here:

Q: The Dark Reapers’ Inescapable Accuracy ability no longer mentions Overwatch. Does this mean that they can hit on Overwatch on rolls of 3+?

A: No. Inescapable Accuracy only affects attacks made in the Shooting phase.

**Daedalus81**

Zontarz wrote:
Marin wrote:
Zontarz wrote:
If I’m reading this right LRBTs can now fire twice in overwatch, and if they are Cadian they get to re-rolls ones as well since it’s “count-as” the shooting phase?

Holy emperor...

Does that means dark reapers hit on 3 on overtwatch, since its like in the shooting phase ?
3 mounts waiting and than we need errata on the big faq.

No, your Eldar FAQ states otherwise

I can still see people arguing for it with circular logic. Best to ignore them, really.

Q: The Dark Reapers’ Inescapable Accuracy ability no longer
mentions Overwatch. Does this mean that they can hit on
Overwatch on rolls of 3+?

A: No. Inescapable Accuracy only affects attacks made in
the Shooting phase.

**Apple Peel**

Bharring wrote:
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

[...]Space Marines probably have the weakest motor pool in the game. [...]

Harlequins say hi.

Taurox Primes say hi and wave hello.

**PiñaColada**

So wait, I'm dumb, can someone explain to me how thousand sons rubricae now work with perils.

I throw out a smite, roll double 6's and get perils. I put it on the rubricae instead. I roll a d3 and 2 are slain let's say. Does the spell go off since the psyker throwing it didn't die? Does the perils explosion happen since a model with the pyker keyword is slain?

**Insectum7**

Speaking of Loyalist Marines, the answer to the Flakk/Hellfire with Cherub appears to have changed. It appears that you have to purchase the Stratagem again in order for the 2nd Hellfire shot. Which of course is not allowed for matched play.

Also you can explicitly measure from Drop Pod doors.

**Daedalus81**

PiñaColada wrote:
So wait, I'm dumb, can someone explain to me how thousand sons rubricae now work with perils.

I throw out a smite, roll double 6's and get perils. I put it on the rubricae instead. I roll a d3 and 2 are slain let's say. Does the spell go off since the psyker throwing it didn't die? Does the perils explosion happen since a model with the pyker keyword is slain?

Maybe and yes as the unit still counts as a psyker even when the sorcerer is dead.