Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Marin wrote:

 Zontarz wrote:
If I’m reading this right LRBTs can now fire twice in overwatch, and if they are Cadian they get to re-rolls ones as well since it’s “count-as” the shooting phase?


Holy emperor...

Does that means dark reapers hit on 3 on overtwatch, since its like in the shooting phase ?
3 mounts waiting and than we need errata on the big faq.

This, if true, will turn ugly fast.

The Craftworlds FAQ still says a clear NO to that one.

Probably just as well, not sure the world has a sufficient salt supply otherwise

 Daedalus81 wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
So wait, I'm dumb, can someone explain to me how thousand sons rubricae now work with perils.

I throw out a smite, roll double 6's and get perils. I put it on the rubricae instead. I roll a d3 and 2 are slain let's say. Does the spell go off since the psyker throwing it didn't die? Does the perils explosion happen since a model with the pyker keyword is slain?

Maybe and yes as the unit still counts as a psyker even when the sorcerer is dead.

But the explosion from a perils hits the unit throwing out the smite, yes? That's still so insanely punishing, taking 2d3 mortal wounds.

No explosion for perils as long as 1 of the models is alive as the unit counts as a psyker, not each individual. You still take the d3 for perils though.

Ooooh, looks like rubricae spam is back on the menu boys! Assuming you're right on that one then I'm truly happy here.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I'm very disappointed with the fact that they decided that Space Marine tanks don't get bolter drill.

Like, do space marines not use tanks? Why do they even make SM tank models if tanks aren't an important part of the Astartes way of war?

It's because SM tanks don't fire their bolters any differently to bolters on other tanks. However, their flesh and blood forces (plus their Dreadnoughts, who are more like MCs than Vehicles IMO) do use their bolters differently.

Just because they don't get Bolter Discipline doesn't mean they're any less Astartes.

Well, they already don't get Chapter Tactics because apparently Space Marine chapters don't use armored vehicles in their doctrines.

Space Marines probably have the weakest motor pool in the game. The Crusader didn't hurt anyone by having bolter drill. But they're going out of their way to delete vehicles from the Space Marine armory by perpetually excluding Space Marine vehicles from getting anything nice.

Not to mention Bolter Drill helped the Rhino a fair bit since shooting 4 times at 24" was a big improvement for it. Even the Razorback was looking a smidge more viable with that option.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
The clarification to "as if it were the shooting phase" means that you get lots of re-rolls in overwatch. Give Cawl a nice bonus.

Not really, remember rerolls still happen before modifiers. So lets say that you have 6 shots at BS3+ at overwatch. You roll 1,2,3,4,5,6. Your rerolls allow you to roll 2 dice again, because technically 3,4 and 5 are hits, which then become misses due to the fixed modifier.

Sorry.

Is overwatch a modifier?

Overwatch is still explicit about not allowing any modifiers. So, while the aura or buff does apply, you're still hitting on 6s only, not on 5s (unless otherwise stated).

 Insectum7 wrote:
Speaking of Loyalist Marines, the answer to the Flakk/Hellfire with Cherub appears to have changed. It appears that you have to purchase the Stratagem again in order for the 2nd Hellfire shot. Which of course is not allowed for matched play.

Also you can explicitly measure from Drop Pod doors.

This also means you can measure to drop pod doors as well. Though getting decent LOS off the ground against another target, even around a corner or something would take a bit of luck I'd assume.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AndrewC wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
The clarification to "as if it were the shooting phase" means that you get lots of re-rolls in overwatch. Give Cawl a nice bonus.

Not really, remember rerolls still happen before modifiers. So lets say that you have 6 shots at BS3+ at overwatch. You roll 1,2,3,4,5,6. Your rerolls allow you to roll 2 dice again, because technically 3,4 and 5 are hits, which then become misses due to the fixed modifier.

Sorry.

It's a bit vague, and I know the internet likes RAW to the point it breaks reality sometimes, but I feel like the RAI changes your BS to a 6 (no plus since you can't buff it) so a 5 down is a miss.

That's the way I have always seen it played.

Martel732 wrote:
Is overwatch a modifier?

Yes, its a fixed modifier. I will need to look it up, unless BCB has it on an index, because someone will probably want a citation. GW put out an order of operations a couple of years back. It went rerolls, variable modifiers, then fixed modifiers. Overwatch is still a shooting attack, so the start point is still BS.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Speaking of Loyalist Marines, the answer to the Flakk/Hellfire with Cherub appears to have changed. It appears that you have to purchase the Stratagem again in order for the 2nd Hellfire shot. Which of course is not allowed for matched play.

Also you can explicitly measure from Drop Pod doors.

This also means you can measure to drop pod doors as well. Though getting decent LOS off the ground against another target, even around a corner or something would take a bit of luck I'd assume.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AndrewC wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
The clarification to "as if it were the shooting phase" means that you get lots of re-rolls in overwatch. Give Cawl a nice bonus.

Not really, remember rerolls still happen before modifiers. So lets say that you have 6 shots at BS3+ at overwatch. You roll 1,2,3,4,5,6. Your rerolls allow you to roll 2 dice again, because technically 3,4 and 5 are hits, which then become misses due to the fixed modifier.

Sorry.

It's a bit vague, and I know the internet likes RAW to the point it breaks reality sometimes, but I feel like the RAI changes your BS to a 6 (no plus since you can't buff it) so a 5 down is a miss.

It doesn't matter for Cawl as he allows you to re-roll all dice (his ability is worded slightly differently), It may affect other models though...

 The Forgemaster wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Speaking of Loyalist Marines, the answer to the Flakk/Hellfire with Cherub appears to have changed. It appears that you have to purchase the Stratagem again in order for the 2nd Hellfire shot. Which of course is not allowed for matched play.

Also you can explicitly measure from Drop Pod doors.

This also means you can measure to drop pod doors as well. Though getting decent LOS off the ground against another target, even around a corner or something would take a bit of luck I'd assume.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AndrewC wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
The clarification to "as if it were the shooting phase" means that you get lots of re-rolls in overwatch. Give Cawl a nice bonus.

Not really, remember rerolls still happen before modifiers. So lets say that you have 6 shots at BS3+ at overwatch. You roll 1,2,3,4,5,6. Your rerolls allow you to roll 2 dice again, because technically 3,4 and 5 are hits, which then become misses due to the fixed modifier.

Sorry.

It's a bit vague, and I know the internet likes RAW to the point it breaks reality sometimes, but I feel like the RAI changes your BS to a 6 (no plus since you can't buff it) so a 5 down is a miss.

It doesn't matter for Cawl as he allows you to re-roll all dice (his ability is worded slightly differently), It may affect other models though...

It doesn't really bother Captains since the re-roll 1s to hit, but anyone who lets you re-roll misses is going to have some problems if GW doesn't let you reroll anything that isn't a 6.

That said, there are characters who just let you blanket reroll which can be hilarious.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Speaking of Loyalist Marines, the answer to the Flakk/Hellfire with Cherub appears to have changed. It appears that you have to purchase the Stratagem again in order for the 2nd Hellfire shot. Which of course is not allowed for matched play.

Also you can explicitly measure from Drop Pod doors.

This also means you can measure to drop pod doors as well. Though getting decent LOS off the ground against another target, even around a corner or something would take a bit of luck I'd assume.

Well someone mentioned making movement walls with them, and with their surface area that seems like a potentially very irritating tactic in the right situation.

Pretty sure that the overwatch rule completely replaces checking BS numbers.

@Clockwork

Overwatch has no impact on the BS. The rule itself says that it is resolved as a normal shooting attack. Using all the normal rules, but a 6 is required to hit.

So you use all the normal rules and then you're hit with a fixed modifier. Can only hit on a natural 6.

God, I hope this FAQ has an impact on the meta. It's looking like it will, too. I'm so sick of seeing the same factions played over and over again. Also I predict Tau will start to dominate pretty hard.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Speaking of Loyalist Marines, the answer to the Flakk/Hellfire with Cherub appears to have changed. It appears that you have to purchase the Stratagem again in order for the 2nd Hellfire shot. Which of course is not allowed for matched play.

Also you can explicitly measure from Drop Pod doors.

This also means you can measure to drop pod doors as well. Though getting decent LOS off the ground against another target, even around a corner or something would take a bit of luck I'd assume.

Well someone mentioned making movement walls with them, and with their surface area that seems like a potentially very irritating tactic in the right situation.

"Ha-ha! You can't step over this small step to charge at me, Cato Sicarius. That proves that I, Cato Sicarius, am a tactical genius on par with the Primarch himself!"

"CURSE YOU SICARIUS!"

 AndrewC wrote:
@Clockwork

Overwatch has no impact on the BS. The rule itself says that it is resolved as a normal shooting attack. Using all the normal rules, but a 6 is required to hit.

So you use all the normal rules and then you're hit with a fixed modifier. Can only hit on a natural 6.

I'm not finding this "fixed modifier" thing anywhere. Citation?

Everything I'm finding says it bypasses BS altogether.

I'm kind of salty that the rumours of mono-codex CP buff were false. That would have made this FAQ a 5 star.

Darsath wrote:
God, I hope this FAQ has an impact on the meta. It's looking like it will, too. I'm so sick of seeing the same factions played over and over again. Also I predict Tau will start to dominate pretty hard.

Not really. Castellan Ian still good. Yes he has a bigger weakness and can actually be killed, but still good and will be battery farmed. Aeldari factions have so many units, a broken combo soup wise will be discovered. It actually didn’t change as much as people think. All that changed is we might have a month or two before a combo is discovered. Guard is still a powerful army in its own right. Tau got a slight nerf as well. Keeping them in roughly the same spot they always were. Chaos got some buffs also. So you’re going to see the same armies.

Cynista wrote:
I'm kind of salty that the rumours of mono-codex CP buff were false. That would have made this FAQ a 5 star.

4.5 stars is still pretty darn good.

This FAQ is huge ladies and gentlemen.

Knights, Ynnari, and Eldar soup nonsense out the door. Clarifications to wording, and even fly being changed back. Phenomenal.

They even changed the chaos renegades to match key words. Sorry, no khorne flawless host berzerkers.

Tasty!

Cynista wrote:
I'm kind of salty that the rumours of mono-codex CP buff were false. That would have made this FAQ a 5 star.

They actually addressed soup, what more do you want? They aren’t going to nerf soup into oblivion, they brought it in line. Be happy. They could of left it alone


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KingCorpus wrote:
This FAQ is huge ladies and gentlemen.

Knights, Ynnari, and Eldar soup nonsense out the door. Clarifications to wording, and even fly being changed back. Phenomenal.

They even changed the chaos renegades to match key words. Sorry, no khorne flawless host berzerkers.

Tasty!

Nonsense in all of those soups is still there. It’s the current nonsense that’s gone. In two months you’ll see something new and complain about that

So overall a well done to GW?? I like how in-depth the FAQ went.

I'm glad they explained the rationale behind some of the old decisions and also owned up to the mistakes on their part. That took some cojones. I hope they learned a lesson that dumming down and stripping the rules to bare bones in a game of many moving parts doesn't work in the long run so its worth having a bit more meat on the rules moving forward.

Pretty happy with this and the ynnari nerf. Looks like they have been paying attention. Bit meh how this basicaly made it so that only IOM can soup effectively. But 40K wouldn't be 40k without IOM coming out slightly on top...

Looking forward to some future games

Overwatch rules even state "irrespective of the firing model's ballistic skill or any modifiers".

Ballistic skill is out for overwatch.

 KingCorpus wrote:
This FAQ is huge ladies and gentlemen.

Knights, Ynnari, and Eldar soup nonsense out the door. Clarifications to wording, and even fly being changed back. Phenomenal.

They even changed the chaos renegades to match key words. Sorry, no khorne flawless host berzerkers.

Tasty!

Fly didn't get "changed back" as you now have to take vertical distance into consideration when charging.

Ok SO help me out here.. I feel a bit thick:

Page 178 – Re-rolls
Change this paragraph to read:
‘Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means
you get to roll some or all of the dice again. If a rule
allows you to re-roll a result that was made by adding
several dice together (e.g. 2D6, 3D6, etc.) then, unless
otherwise stated, you must roll all of those dice again.
You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls
happen before modifiers (if any) are applied.’


So I am correct to understand that this means you cant just cherry pick one of the charge dice but have to re-roll both?

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Cynista wrote:
I'm kind of salty that the rumours of mono-codex CP buff were false. That would have made this FAQ a 5 star.

They actually addressed soup, what more do you want? They aren’t going to nerf soup into oblivion, they brought it in line. Be happy. They could of left it alone

I think I made it pretty clear in one sentence what more I wanted. Also find it amusing that in the first half of your post you say that soup has been fixed, then go on to proclaim to another poster that soup is alive and well. Have some self awareness ffs

I noticed that all of your grief stricken grandstanding and FAQ predictions after the Ynnari nerf haven't come to pass. What a surprise

 Apple Peel wrote:

Bharring wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

[...]Space Marines probably have the weakest motor pool in the game. [...]

Harlequins say hi.

Taurox Primes say hi and wave hello.

Taurox Primes are part of a motor pool that also includes Manticores and Basilisks.