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Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Darsath wrote:
God, I hope this FAQ has an impact on the meta. It's looking like it will, too. I'm so sick of seeing the same factions played over and over again. Also I predict Tau will start to dominate pretty hard.

Not really. Castellan Ian still good. Yes he has a bigger weakness and can actually be killed, but still good and will be battery farmed.

The castellan is gone mate.

You took a castellan to do 2 things.. be the hard points in your force. And to Murder someone else 3++ castellan.

So its now more points, to do a job it doesn't do as well (be tough in the middle) to counter something that isn't showing up.

Why would you take it?

If you need a tough spot in the middle, for the exact some cost, take 2 gallants. If someone brings a 4++ castellan, much more normal firepower deals with it.

 Ordana wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Ordana wrote:
To those complaining about CP farming.

How many times does GW need to NOT address this before you understand that it is a part of the game that GW is ok with?

These changes may see CP farming reduced in power. You might have a bunch of CP, but what are you fueling with it? With all the big stuff losing their efficiency with force multipliers we may start to see a lot more variety.

The only thing lost is a Castellan rotating Ion shields.
So you drop the Castellan down to a Crusader and bring back smash captains. Viola we can burn infinite CP in a turn again.

I don't see how you think these changes have reduced the need for CP.

I have little fear of smash captains and crusaders. If you took an IG & Castellan list, halved the Castellan guns, and put 250 to 300 points into melee it isn't nearly as scary.

You CAN still burn CP, but it's not going to be an inviolate thing any more.

I really like the FAQ, GW did a great job considering how they used to run things.

One things that really bugs me though:
DW Terminators in mixed units gets full benefit of Bolter Discipline but Space Wolf Pack Leaders in Terminator armour does not. It really highlights GWs disregard of SW :(

JETapp wrote:
I really like the FAQ, GW did a great job considering how they used to run things.

One things that really bugs me though:
DW Terminators in mixed units gets full benefit of Bolter Discipline but Space Wolf Pack Leaders in Terminator armour does not. It really highlights GWs disregard of SW :(

Deathwatch lose Bolter Discipline with SIA.

I still can't believe GW initially said this FAQ was just some minor changes. With the Ynnari change, this is probably the biggest reset for 8th since it's inception (if you don't include new additions, like the Castellan for example). So many people are going to be rethinking their armies, which is a great thing.

I a bit (a lot, actually) disappointed that <fly> models can charge through models, except buildings. Screens are now useless against them once again.

They could have made Russes to shoot into CC with secondary weapons as they did it with all superheavies.

 Hawky wrote:
I a bit (a lot, actually) disappointed that <fly> models can charge through models, except buildings. Screens are now useless against them once again.

They could have made Russes to shoot into CC with secondary weapons as they did it with all superheavies.

Screens still dominate, you just need more of them. Not a problem for guardsmen, a bigger problem for others.

So, IG/Knights/ something choppy is still top, and its closest competitor basically gets axed?

Derp.

Guardsmen + something they screen that can never be touched because guardsmen + choppy/indirect fire.

I'm not convinced smash capts are gonna be a great choice even with the fly fix. If they land more than 12" from target, they can't charge.

 Hawky wrote:
I a bit (a lot, actually) disappointed that <fly> models can charge through models, except buildings. Screens are now useless against them once again.

They could have made Russes to shoot into CC with secondary weapons as they did it with all superheavies.

They did give russes Grinding Advance on overwatch.

Also, screens are not useless against Flyers, just more difficult to correctly play - you can make their charge rolls more difficult by moving up the screen, or make completing the charge move impossible by blocking off a space where the charger can't place his model within 1" of the intended target.

zerosignal wrote:
So, IG/Knights/ something choppy is still top, and its closest competitor basically gets axed?

Derp.

Non Ynnari Eldar was not far behind IG + Knight but few people played it because Ynnari existed and was the same models.
I expect Craftworld + DE soup to be in roughly the same place as Ynnari was before (because while they got nerfed a little so did IG + Knight)

the_scotsman wrote:

 Hawky wrote:
I a bit (a lot, actually) disappointed that <fly> models can charge through models, except buildings. Screens are now useless against them once again.

They could have made Russes to shoot into CC with secondary weapons as they did it with all superheavies.

They did give russes Grinding Advance on overwatch.

Also, screens are not useless against Flyers, just more difficult to correctly play - you can make their charge rolls more difficult by moving up the screen, or make completing the charge move impossible by blocking off a space where the charger can't place his model within 1" of the intended target.

I don't think that the LR gets Grinding Advance on overwatch. IIRC Grinding Advance is worded in such a way that it triggers when the tank is permitted to move, and applies only through the following shooting phase.

Martel732 wrote:Guardsmen + something they screen that can never be touched because guardsmen + choppy/indirect fire.

I'm not convinced smash capts are gonna be a great choice even with the fly fix. If they land more than 12" from target, they can't charge.

I think that Smash Captains sound pretty great, actually. Whether hiding behind guardsmen and tanks to avoid getting shot, or letting other units clear the way for drop, I think they'll definitely be a solid option.

CWE+DE soup got hit fairly hard by the FAQ, but I think it'll still be a contender.

Same with Knight/IG/Beatstick - hit hard, but still a contender.

We may even see *more* variety at the top. Most of the current top dogs ate a bit of a nerf.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mono-Eldar (CWE or DE) probably came out of the FAQ the best.

 skchsan wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:


It is a shame as it is easily fixed by altering the second sentence so the whole rule reads.

‘Models may disembark from this vehicle at any point during its move, but if they do they cannot move further during this phase; if the Valkyrie moves 20" or more, you
must roll a D6 for each model disembarking. On a 1, that model is slain. Models that disembark in this manner must be set up more than 9" from any enemy models unless they have the AERIAL DROP ability in which case they disembark normally.'

Is there a query line to pass on such suggestions?

This doesn't follow the recent trends on getting things within 9" in the first turn. What you're suggesting is if the comtents of the valkyrie has a rule that allows a form of deepstrike then they can be set up within 9" of enemy.

Sorry you have lost me. I am suggesting the Scions can disembark normally from Valkryies post move and not have the 9" restriction. Previously they would deploy outside 9" then move (normally to get into hellgun range). Now deploying from a Valkyrie is the same as their parachute ability, with the added chance of dying if you roll a 1 (normally for your Sergeant and plasma troopers). Therefore I would suggest to given them a reason to do so they should be able to insert closer to the enemy then their floating down from above normal deepstrike, with the added danger you get from a Valk insertion.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Hawky wrote:
I a bit (a lot, actually) disappointed that <fly> models can charge through models, except buildings. Screens are now useless against them once again.

They could have made Russes to shoot into CC with secondary weapons as they did it with all superheavies.

They did give russes Grinding Advance on overwatch.

Also, screens are not useless against Flyers, just more difficult to correctly play - you can make their charge rolls more difficult by moving up the screen, or make completing the charge move impossible by blocking off a space where the charger can't place his model within 1" of the intended target.

I don't think that the LR gets Grinding Advance on overwatch. IIRC Grinding Advance is worded in such a way that it triggers when the tank is permitted to move, and applies only through the following shooting phase.

Martel732 wrote:Guardsmen + something they screen that can never be touched because guardsmen + choppy/indirect fire.

I'm not convinced smash capts are gonna be a great choice even with the fly fix. If they land more than 12" from target, they can't charge.

I think that Smash Captains sound pretty great, actually. Whether hiding behind guardsmen and tanks to avoid getting shot, or letting other units clear the way for drop, I think they'll definitely be a solid option.

"If this model remains stationary or moves under half speed in its movement phase it can shoot its turret weapon twice in the following shooting phase (the turret weapon must target the same unit both times).

Remained stationary in its movement phase? Check

shooting the same unit both times? Check.

Don't see how this would not apply to attacks made "as if it were the Shooting Phase."

If the LR gets its rules in overwatch, so does the dark reapers. All I’m saying.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
If the LR gets its rules in overwatch, so does the dark reapers. All I’m saying.

Dark Reapers are specifically forbidden from hitting on 3+ in overwatch by an answer in the eldar Faq.

Q: The Dark Reapers’ Inescapable Accuracy ability no longer
mentions Overwatch. Does this mean that they can hit on
Overwatch on rolls of 3+?
A: No. Inescapable Accuracy only affects attacks made in
the Shooting phase.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Hawky wrote:
I a bit (a lot, actually) disappointed that <fly> models can charge through models, except buildings. Screens are now useless against them once again.

They could have made Russes to shoot into CC with secondary weapons as they did it with all superheavies.

They did give russes Grinding Advance on overwatch.

Also, screens are not useless against Flyers, just more difficult to correctly play - you can make their charge rolls more difficult by moving up the screen, or make completing the charge move impossible by blocking off a space where the charger can't place his model within 1" of the intended target.

I don't think that the LR gets Grinding Advance on overwatch. IIRC Grinding Advance is worded in such a way that it triggers when the tank is permitted to move, and applies only through the following shooting phase.

Martel732 wrote:Guardsmen + something they screen that can never be touched because guardsmen + choppy/indirect fire.

I'm not convinced smash capts are gonna be a great choice even with the fly fix. If they land more than 12" from target, they can't charge.

I think that Smash Captains sound pretty great, actually. Whether hiding behind guardsmen and tanks to avoid getting shot, or letting other units clear the way for drop, I think they'll definitely be a solid option.

"If this model remains stationary or moves under half speed in its movement phase it can shoot its turret weapon twice in the following shooting phase (the turret weapon must target the same unit both times).

Remained stationary in its movement phase? Check

shooting the same unit both times? Check.

Don't see how this would not apply to attacks made "as if it were the Shooting Phase."

The following shooting phase.
The charge phase is not the following shooting phase.

 Ordana wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
If the LR gets its rules in overwatch, so does the dark reapers. All I’m saying.

Dark Reapers are specifically forbidden from hitting on 3+ in overwatch by an answer in the eldar Faq.

Q: The Dark Reapers’ Inescapable Accuracy ability no longer
mentions Overwatch. Does this mean that they can hit on
Overwatch on rolls of 3+?
A: No. Inescapable Accuracy only affects attacks made in
the Shooting phase.

Go to YMDC. It’s stated otherwise by multiple rules that conflict. Guess we have to roll dice? I’m not allowing a guard player of all people to do it if superior eldar can’t.

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 skchsan wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:


It is a shame as it is easily fixed by altering the second sentence so the whole rule reads.

‘Models may disembark from this vehicle at any point during its move, but if they do they cannot move further during this phase; if the Valkyrie moves 20" or more, you
must roll a D6 for each model disembarking. On a 1, that model is slain. Models that disembark in this manner must be set up more than 9" from any enemy models unless they have the AERIAL DROP ability in which case they disembark normally.'

Is there a query line to pass on such suggestions?

This doesn't follow the recent trends on getting things within 9" in the first turn. What you're suggesting is if the comtents of the valkyrie has a rule that allows a form of deepstrike then they can be set up within 9" of enemy.

Sorry you have lost me. I am suggesting the Scions can disembark normally from Valkryies post move and not have the 9" restriction. Previously they would deploy outside 9" then move (normally to get into hellgun range). Now deploying from a Valkyrie is the same as their parachute ability, with the added chance of dying if you roll a 1 (normally for your Sergeant and plasma troopers). Therefore I would suggest to given them a reason to do so they should be able to insert closer to the enemy then their floating down from above normal deepstrike, with the added danger you get from a Valk insertion.

Parachute doesn't happen t1. Valkyrie does


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Ordana wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
If the LR gets its rules in overwatch, so does the dark reapers. All I’m saying.

Dark Reapers are specifically forbidden from hitting on 3+ in overwatch by an answer in the eldar Faq.

Q: The Dark Reapers’ Inescapable Accuracy ability no longer
mentions Overwatch. Does this mean that they can hit on
Overwatch on rolls of 3+?
A: No. Inescapable Accuracy only affects attacks made in
the Shooting phase.

Go to YMDC. It’s stated otherwise by multiple rules that conflict. Guess we have to roll dice? I’m not allowing a guard player of all people to do it if superior eldar can’t.

Gw ls flat out saying you can't so hopefully you aren't cheater and do it anyway

 BaconCatBug wrote:

JETapp wrote:
I really like the FAQ, GW did a great job considering how they used to run things.

One things that really bugs me though:
DW Terminators in mixed units gets full benefit of Bolter Discipline but Space Wolf Pack Leaders in Terminator armour does not. It really highlights GWs disregard of SW :(

Deathwatch lose Bolter Discipline with SIA.

But that has nothing at all to do with DW getting to shoot their Terminators in Mixed Units like Terminators regarding Bolter Discipline, and SW Terminators not being considered being Terminators in similar circumstances.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Ordana wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
If the LR gets its rules in overwatch, so does the dark reapers. All I’m saying.

Dark Reapers are specifically forbidden from hitting on 3+ in overwatch by an answer in the eldar Faq.

Q: The Dark Reapers’ Inescapable Accuracy ability no longer
mentions Overwatch. Does this mean that they can hit on
Overwatch on rolls of 3+?
A: No. Inescapable Accuracy only affects attacks made in
the Shooting phase.

Go to YMDC. It’s stated otherwise by multiple rules that conflict. Guess we have to roll dice? I’m not allowing a guard player of all people to do it if superior eldar can’t.

Overwatch overrides everything.

the_scotsman wrote:

"If this model remains stationary or moves under half speed in its movement phase it can shoot its turret weapon twice in the following shooting phase (the turret weapon must target the same unit both times).

Remained stationary in its movement phase? Check

shooting the same unit both times? Check.

Don't see how this would not apply to attacks made "as if it were the Shooting Phase."

The keyword is Following shooting phase. The attacks made during Overwatch count as if they were made during the shooting phase, but they're still a separate shooting phase from the one immediately following the movement phase in which the Leman Russ moved less than 5".

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 skchsan wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:


It is a shame as it is easily fixed by altering the second sentence so the whole rule reads.

‘Models may disembark from this vehicle at any point during its move, but if they do they cannot move further during this phase; if the Valkyrie moves 20" or more, you
must roll a D6 for each model disembarking. On a 1, that model is slain. Models that disembark in this manner must be set up more than 9" from any enemy models unless they have the AERIAL DROP ability in which case they disembark normally.'

Is there a query line to pass on such suggestions?

This doesn't follow the recent trends on getting things within 9" in the first turn. What you're suggesting is if the comtents of the valkyrie has a rule that allows a form of deepstrike then they can be set up within 9" of enemy.

Sorry you have lost me. I am suggesting the Scions can disembark normally from Valkryies post move and not have the 9" restriction. Previously they would deploy outside 9" then move (normally to get into hellgun range). Now deploying from a Valkyrie is the same as their parachute ability, with the added chance of dying if you roll a 1 (normally for your Sergeant and plasma troopers). Therefore I would suggest to given them a reason to do so they should be able to insert closer to the enemy then their floating down from above normal deepstrike, with the added danger you get from a Valk insertion.

I can definitely agree with this statement. Since their inception Scions have had this cool flyer that feels tailor made to drop them in yet they get to do it for free anyways, so why bother? I agree that they need something a little EXTRA to help. I do not agree with the moving closer though because it appears that they are trying to tighten up the rules and make it so that mos things are universal. HOWEVER, that dosent stop you from having some other really cool rule like "If a Valkyrie with <Tempestus Scions> regiment drops a unit they now get to use their regimental rules at max range instead of half range for that turn", maybe something that temporarily alters their Hot Shot Las, like it becomes Assault 2 for a round, or possibly something that affects leadership, or gives them a temporary cover bonus. I personally like the shooting ideas only because it means they are blasting away as they are falling! This can easily be rolled into the Regiment rules itself, make it a general deployment rule for all their vehicles they drive if they deploy from them (being the specialists that they are, the regular aerial drop rule should be an alternative not the only option when deploying)

 Xenomancers wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Ordana wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
If the LR gets its rules in overwatch, so does the dark reapers. All I’m saying.

Dark Reapers are specifically forbidden from hitting on 3+ in overwatch by an answer in the eldar Faq.

Q: The Dark Reapers’ Inescapable Accuracy ability no longer
mentions Overwatch. Does this mean that they can hit on
Overwatch on rolls of 3+?
A: No. Inescapable Accuracy only affects attacks made in
the Shooting phase.

Go to YMDC. It’s stated otherwise by multiple rules that conflict. Guess we have to roll dice? I’m not allowing a guard player of all people to do it if superior eldar can’t.

Overwatch overrides everything.

Not anymore.

That said, a flat "No" from GW on this specific question is the only relevant rule, as posted in YMDC.

This Whole Grinding Advance / Leman Russ / Overwatch debate must also apply to Pulsed Laser Discharge on the Fire Prism as well?

 bullyboy wrote:
I still can't believe GW initially said this FAQ was just some minor changes. With the Ynnari change, this is probably the biggest reset for 8th since it's inception (if you don't include new additions, like the Castellan for example). So many people are going to be rethinking their armies, which is a great thing.

Ynnari changes were technically from white dwarf... And their CT was kinda spiraling out of control to be fair. The point of Ynnari was that you can play eldar soup as a 'monodex' where you can bring the strengths of best units from each aeldari's codex into one. Imagine if knight+IG+imperium flavor of the month soup had a special new faction rule that was over the top.

 generalchaos34 wrote:
I can definitely agree with this statement. Since their inception Scions have had this cool flyer that feels tailor made to drop them in yet they get to do it for free anyways, so why bother? I agree that they need something a little EXTRA to help. I do not agree with the moving closer though because it appears that they are trying to tighten up the rules and make it so that mos things are universal. HOWEVER, that dosent stop you from having some other really cool rule like "If a Valkyrie with <Tempestus Scions> regiment drops a unit they now get to use their regimental rules at max range instead of half range for that turn", maybe something that temporarily alters their Hot Shot Las, like it becomes Assault 2 for a round, or possibly something that affects leadership, or gives them a temporary cover bonus. I personally like the shooting ideas only because it means they are blasting away as they are falling! This can easily be rolled into the Regiment rules itself, make it a general deployment rule for all their vehicles they drive if they deploy from them (being the specialists that they are, the regular aerial drop rule should be an alternative not the only option when deploying)

The other option I have seen floated is they don't have to make the D6 roll to disembark safely because they do it all the time.

"No" to Leman Russes firing twice on Overwatch, and "no" to Dark Reapers hitting on 3+ on Overwatch.

 Insectum7 wrote:
I think the main goal with that one is to effect the main "vanilla" marine units, so Rapid-Fire it is. Also, I actually can't think of many non Rapid-Fire bolt weapons other than the Agressor ones and Heavy Bolters (which are in their own rough spot).

I mean, there's Bolt Pistols but standing still to fire twice with Assault Marines isn't really what anyone expects.

Reiver and Intercessor auto-bolters say hi. Especially seeing they were already bad thanks to lacking AP of bolt rifles for some inane reason, now, with bolter discipline on, they are so bad they would never see the table if they were free, never mind their inflated price on top of all the suck.

Funnily enough, that one Vigilus relic doesn't get access to improved rules due to this oversigh, because while it's rapid-fire, it replaces non-RF auto-bolter which means it doesn't qualify for bolter discipline requirements...

 Irbis wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
I think the main goal with that one is to effect the main "vanilla" marine units, so Rapid-Fire it is. Also, I actually can't think of many non Rapid-Fire bolt weapons other than the Agressor ones and Heavy Bolters (which are in their own rough spot).

I mean, there's Bolt Pistols but standing still to fire twice with Assault Marines isn't really what anyone expects.

Reiver and Intercessor auto-bolters say hi. Especially seeing they were already bad thanks to lacking AP of bolt rifles for some inane reason, now, with bolter discipline on, they are so bad they would never see the table if they were free, never mind their inflated price on top of all the suck.

Funnily enough, that one Vigilus relic doesn't get access to improved rules due to this oversigh, because while it's rapid-fire, it replaces non-RF auto-bolter which means it doesn't qualify for bolter discipline requirements...

Why does Bolter Disciple care about what weapon option your replacing? It cares about the weapon you are trying to shoot at that time. If that relic has Rapid-Fire and is a bolt weapon then it benefits.