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That command trait is “pick a Slaanesh unit to fight again”. It’s the only command trait he has besides the basic ones that every general gets, like smite and shield. It is a locked one. Now, I get my general’s ability too, which I picked “run and charge” in a Godseeker Host. So the Daemonettes have inherent run and charge, have inherent exploding attacks, and the keeper has an inherent “fight again” ability and an inherent “always strike last” ability. The only additive I’ve thrown in is an Endless Spell that every player (you know, except Khorne ones) can use. The basic jist of it feels like I’m being told “your inherent abilities are too good, so don’t use them”. I mean...it’s just shocking the amount of unhappiness I’m seeing on here over it; we wanted the armies to all play differently, so we have them. But we also get spells that all of us can use. Is it my fault that my army just happens to have good synergy and I’ve chosen to use two endless spells (both of which can technically benefit my opponent later, if they so choose)?

Maybe I should take three 40-man horde units of marauders instead like I was thinking; big units and they still get the exploding 6’s because Slaanesh. And 120 of them is only 600 points. Add in two keepers (I freaking love Keepers and have since 6th edition fantasy, so I’m NOT backing down on using my favorite Daemon) and a 20-woman cav unit of seekers and it’ll be below 2000, use no endless spells, and have so many attacks it’ll drown opponents in blended units.

Honestly, I feel like the hate I’ve caused on here makes this book sound better than Flesh Eaters.

I guess the true “Forbidden Power” is the damn Slaanesh book!

 timetowaste85 wrote:
That command trait is “pick a Slaanesh unit to fight again”. It’s the only command trait he has besides the basic ones that every general gets, like smite and shield. It is a locked one. Now, I get my general’s ability too, which I picked “run and charge” in a Godseeker Host. So the Daemonettes have inherent run and charge, have inherent exploding attacks, and the keeper has an inherent “fight again” ability and an inherent “always strike last” ability. The only additive I’ve thrown in is an Endless Spell that every player (you know, except Khorne ones) can use.

I was just wrong about this. I thought things were less locked in and you carefully arranged things. Like how if I did a staunch defender, castellant, 20 liberator/sequitor block. that would require picking some very specific things and deploying them very close to one another and not attacking with them (as there's a not charging condition). This looks like stuff you can do whenever and always.

I mean...it’s just shocking the amount of unhappiness I’m seeing on here over it

I think that might be a bit unfair. Surely you see that if someone picked an army based on what they wanted to paint, back ground fiction, what was present in a battle in a novel and it was an objectively weaker army that they might not want to play a game they saw as a foregone conclusion. Maybe they're wrong about that and if they tried the game it wouldn't be. Though I've seen first hand what happens when a gaming group does start having regular foregone conclusions.

During the tail end of 2nd edition of Warmachine/Hordes half of our group were hard core tournament guys who did road trips to every major event in North America (and did reasonably well). The guy who was hosting the club days (ie actually renting the room we played in) was a super casual player and he'd unpack his army, they'd deploy and suddenly the game would be over. Set up and tear down was longer than the actual game. And the tournament guys just would not stop always playing their tournament lists against the bad lists played by the half that were casual. Now there are zero warmachine games at the venue. People really need to get on the same page.

I only have one game worth of experience against the new slaanesh stuff and it wasn't anything like you described. The person had a variety of small units and tried all sorts of interesting things. I don't recall any 20 strong units of anything. That might be bad list construction but we had a fun game.

As for the Forbidden Power endless spells being available to everyone, I think it's probably reasonable to assume that it will combine the best with certain factions and not others? Maybe that's an issue, maybe it's not?

You guys are confusing command traits and command abilities; the discussion is on two different pages.

 auticus wrote:
You really can't have any form of discussion about things that rub you the wrong way, it has to be all cheery.

Nah, doesn’t have to be all cheery. I’m fairly negative on some aspects of summoning, current state of DoK, FEC and Skaven and maybe a few other bits of minutiae. Quite a bit we agree on, in fact. Those are all known quantities and largely easy fixes. But to make a thread to whine about a concept that you knew nothing about (Mercenaries) at the time is pretty damn bogus. You didn’t focus on how it could be fun for narrative players or to change things up for a stagnant casual group. Straight to the negative. Once the cold hard facts came out, you moved onto the next thing (a situational spell) and cranked it straight to 11 on the negativity.

Case in point:

 auticus wrote:
Taking positioning and maneuver even more into the rubbish pile every year. Tap your card to do X damage to your opponent style play.

Thats a dramatic oversimplification and takes out any nuance of the games mechanics. Boiling down the mechanics of the game to just tapping a card, instead of maneuvering and counter maneuvering by the opponent, to even be able to try to get this spell off successfully, in addition to attempting the objectives of whatever the scenario calls for is incredibly disingenuous. Chill with the hyperbole, its not constructive.

Auticus I am often on the same side as you in discussions but it does seem like you have been unusually negative/hyperbolic in this particular thread.

 auticus wrote:
There is another stormcast battletome confirmed?

... I'm sooooooo sick of 95% of their design team and space going to god damn stormcast and Khorne. Holy crap we still have armies that don't have battletombs and while you can play them, they haven't even bothered to update their rules (looking at you Tomb Kings) and they are extremely overcosted (points and money). Why can't I play my High Elves army that theyre STILL selling the boxes for? They're split into 6 different factions and none of them have faction rules (I don't count the stupid prince dragon one). I get that they want to sell new models but come on, make them usable.

Caprican wrote:

 auticus wrote:
There is another stormcast battletome confirmed?

... I'm sooooooo sick of 95% of their design team and space going to god damn stormcast and Khorne.

a) They are not getting a new tome.

b) No, they are not. Quit the bloody hyperbole.

 Kanluwen wrote:

So you'd let me have a treeless Wildwoods base to make sure that I would have stuff wholly within?

Yes. Because you know what's alternative? Lots more time wasted as the guy measures with tape measure everything. No matter the shape if premeasuring is allowed you can measure the shape 100% accurately with tape measure compared to using template. HOWEVER insisting on tape measure will mean lot more time spent.

Do you want to sit waiting for premeasuring to be done or have it done quickly for same result?


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 timetowaste85 wrote:
Hey, if you have to deny a game because your opponent had the audacity to not be in your clique of buddies and dared to bring a max sized troop unit, an HQ and an endless spell and didn’t want to just throw the game, I’d say that’s more your problem than mine. You’re right about one thing though; it’s a good thing we aren’t playing in the same places. Because it definitely sounds like you’re promoting a bit of casual-elitism. If I play an opponent and they aren’t asking for a “beginner, I’m just learning” game, I’m not going to insult them by dumbing myself down so they can curbstomb me to feel better about their “skills”. I actually had more respect for you on here until you said “that endless spell is too good with your army, I’d walk away from a game with you if you brought it”. The take-my-ball-and-leave attitude is silly.

Why you think you have authority to decide who other person plays with? Persons time is persons own. Nobody is required to play with anybody they don't want. You aren't entitled to play vs him or whomever. If you disagree show what law forces anybody to play vs you even if they don't want. Even in tournament nobody can force anybody to play. At most he has to give automatic win but if it's not going to result in fun time that's easily price worth paying for. And outside tournament there's even less requirements.


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 Kanluwen wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
If the prop bumps models then you point it out and have them move them back, anything can bump models around. Or do you ban hands for their potential role in cheating?

If someone's got a prop and they bump it, then it can lead to a whole other argument regarding intention or "did it really though?". Very rarely will someone not acknowledge if they bumped something with their hand.

The claim is that it's "the same as premeasuring", so just premeasure and be done with it. You're already going to be stretching out what should be an easy placement thing into a more tedious exercise with that nonsense, don't throw more moving parts into the mix.

Same bump can happen with premeasuring. Actually much more likely with premeasuring because you are measuring within mm's lot more so your tape measure is going to be between models touching bases lot more...So if you want to avoid bumps you should be endorsing templates rather than premeasuring.


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 Kanluwen wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Do you also ban 3" measuring gauges?

I don't "ban" anything, you understand that right? For me, if I'm playing in a more competitive event--I expect things to be moving quick. If you can't eyeball it--I'm going to ask you not to do it.


Also--those gauges actually are set up to not bump stuff as much so it isn't really an issue.

So let's see...you expect things to move quick yet insist on slower method? In competive enviroment nobody eyeballs it. They MEASURE it. They don't eyeball "do these fit or not". They MEASURE it. That takes lot more time and lot more bumps with gauges than with template.

The ultimate impact on my local area is that the competitive guys largely ignored this release because the only thing they want out of it is the boat, and so someone created a digital copy of the boat's scroll and people are proxying or converting their own boat.

However the boat is in fact in probably 4 out of 5 of the competitive lists down at the shop right now.

The release overall sold like the old realmgate campaign books did. IE: almost not at all.

What size base is the boat on? I plan on converting/building my own, crewed by a Daemonette using a spare pole arm from Shalaxi as the oar. It looks fairly big; not chariot sized, but Stormcast hero on Dracolyn from the starter set/Korgoroth base sized?

I'm not sure. I have the box but I haven't worked on any of the spells. I've been painting my army to get it done before September's first game.

The Warhammer Community article we've been waiting for, The General’s Handbook 2019: Mercenary Companies.

Given the rules there, I could enjoyably add a unit of pistoliers and a freeguild general (A soul-captured Karl Franz and his last unit of pistoliers slaves) to my Slaanesh army. Could be fun for casual games; trading a command point for a backfield disruption.

Nice, that is a pretty good selection. Looking forward to seeing the conversions people make.

Yeah; it’s a good way to make it “fluffy”, and add a back-field “oh crap” distraction. I guess that’ll mean some whip wounds on the horses and Deathclaw.

It's s shame they pulled the Greenskin Boar Boyz a while back. They would have made a nice mercenary unit

 timetowaste85 wrote:
What size base is the boat on? I plan on converting/building my own, crewed by a Daemonette using a spare pole arm from Shalaxi as the oar. It looks fairly big; not chariot sized, but Stormcast hero on Dracolyn from the starter set/Korgoroth base sized?

I believe it was a 75mm oval.

Have there been any big tourneys post-forbidden power? Curious to see how prevalent the new content is, if present at all.


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 auticus wrote:
The ultimate impact on my local area is that the competitive guys largely ignored this release because the only thing they want out of it is the boat, and so someone created a digital copy of the boat's scroll and people are proxying or converting their own boat.

However the boat is in fact in probably 4 out of 5 of the competitive lists down at the shop right now.

The release overall sold like the old realmgate campaign books did. IE: almost not at all.

Tbf the alternate-by-unit structure your community uses makes the boat a lot stronger.

We only got two copies at my flgs, I got one of them and am using the new content in our path to glory league--the awakened artifacts are a fun addition.

The competitive guys that are flocking to the boat do not play in my campaigns and only play by tournament rules.

New Mercenary rules are awesome and I for one can't wait to convert things for my beloved Gloomspit!

Night goblin Mushroom cannons firing squigs and fanatics

A flying death machine born by pidgeon squigs dropping mushrooms!

A Organ gun? Nah we just load up dis shaman git with da glowwy shrooms and he yells into da pipes!

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
New Mercenary rules are awesome and I for one can't wait to convert things for my beloved Gloomspit!

Night goblin Mushroom cannons firing squigs and fanatics

A flying death machine born by pidgeon squigs dropping mushrooms!

A Organ gun? Nah we just load up dis shaman git with da glowwy shrooms and he yells into da pipes!

I definitely want to see these!


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 auticus wrote:
The competitive guys that are flocking to the boat do not play in my campaigns and only play by tournament rules.

Ah, good to know.