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 HudsonD wrote:
Eh, I agree with the Kodiak, even though I like the Stone Rhino.

On the other hand, what's wrong with "Introtech Lances", and having solid, classic designs for people that might interested in getting into the game ?

if they're all in the basic boxed set game it is a tad odd you'd think people would have those already. of course it might be this is why they're doing it. people have complained about an inability to get the core set so by making the emchs in it avalaible outside it it should, in theory, ease some of the pressure on the stock of the core sets.

niall78 wrote:
I have to agree. A clan totem mech has limited appeal compared to a standard design. Even for another Clan player who just wants more standard OpFor IS mechs for their toys to fight.

But the Kodiak was part of a 2nd Line Star. It was a good fit. Have all the new IS packs you want, however boring, but why mess with the ones that are already there?

 HudsonD wrote:
On the other hand, what's wrong with "Introtech Lances", and having solid, classic designs for people that might interested in getting into the game ?

There's enough IntroTech stuff in all the lances we have and the 10 'Mechs in the starter boxes.

Including the redesigned unseen, we'd have a long list of some of the most basic and iconic IS 'Mechs around:

Marauder
Archer
Stinger
Phoenix Hawk
Warhammer
Rifleman
Wasp
Atlas
Banshee
Grasshopper
Centurion
Blackjack
Panther
Wolfhound
Jenner
Whitworth
Trebuchet

Did they really have to go and add another Hunchback? Dragon? Enforcer? Cyclops? Another fething Spider? These are 'Mechs that have been part of the starterbox since the 4th Ed box came out, and that wasn't exactly new when I bought it nineteen years ago!

Oh I see. Only the top 80 pledgers got to vote. I didn't realize Catalyst was also into elitism.

No longer being produced-
Fire Falcon
Hellion
Kodiak
Whitworth
Bombardier
Howler (Baboon)
Solitaire
Pack Hunter
Scarybus
Firestarter Omni
Berserker
Hermes

Will be produced-
Night Gyr
Linebacker
Behemoth (Stone Rhino)
Zeus
Stalker
Hellhound
Goshawk
Piranha
Cataphract
Bushwhacker
Axman
Nightstar

New lance-
Raven
Enforcer
Hunchback
Victor

New Lance-
Dragon
Thug
Cyclops
Spider

And Sentinel.

Sorry the formatting stinks, but it might be easier to figure out than their google doc.

Justyn wrote:
Oh I see. Only the top 80 pledgers got to vote. I didn't realize Catalyst was also into elitism.

When I last was involved in the online battletech community I noted there tended to be a bit of that yeah.

 Gitzbitah wrote:
No longer being produced-
Fire Falcon
Hellion
Kodiak
Whitworth
Bombardier
Howler (Baboon)
Solitaire
Pack Hunter
Scarybus
Firestarter Omni
Berserker
Hermes

Will be produced-
Night Gyr
Linebacker
Behemoth (Stone Rhino)
Zeus
Stalker
Hellhound
Goshawk
Piranha
Cataphract
Bushwhacker
Axman
Nightstar

New lance-
Raven
Enforcer
Hunchback
Victor

New Lance-
Dragon
Thug
Cyclops
Spider

And Sentinel.

Sorry the formatting stinks, but it might be easier to figure out than their google doc.

Good changes in my view. Only two I'd miss would be the Firestarter Omni and the Berserker.

There will always be mechs that I want that won't be on the list. CGL could run a dozen kickstarter filling out my preferences for mechs/tanks/vees/battle armour/infantry. Let alone rolling out a comprehensive range for all the hotness in the BT universe over its different eras.

One thing worth noting is that with very few exceptions the mechs on the no longer produced list are mechs that post date the clan invasion.

really once you remove the Bombadier and Hermes, SLDF machines. almost all of those mechs appered post clan invasion. so over all I think I understand the logic here.

I think changing the offerings this sign ificantly is a really dumb move,


loads of backers pay little or no attention to a KS once the back, and will be expecting those now vanished mechs and be very annoyed when they hit the PM and find they're gone

And yet they added the Bushwacker...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And yet they added the Bushwacker...

well the mech was in tro 3058 it appered as early as 3051 as shown in Battletech the animated series (yes that's canon)

BrianDavion wrote:
if they're all in the basic boxed set game it is a tad odd you'd think people would have those already. of course it might be this is why they're doing it. people have complained about an inability to get the core set so by making the emchs in it avalaible outside it it should, in theory, ease some of the pressure on the stock of the core sets.

... Except they're not in the base box.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Did they really have to go and add another Hunchback? Dragon? Enforcer? Cyclops? Another fething Spider? These are 'Mechs that have been part of the starterbox since the 4th Ed box came out, and that wasn't exactly new when I bought it nineteen years ago!

Yes, yes they do, and I have that box around. There weren't any minis in it.
So unless you mean "20 years ago, those classic designs existed as cardboard cuts in the base box, and also as very crummy bits of pewter, so, really, why should they be re-released today as (reasonnably) modern, decent plastic new sculpts ?!", I don't think I can agree with your premise.

This KS isn't made so that you, or me, can get another Hunchback, it's made so that new blood can look at boxes on a store shelf and go "Oh, I want this", and get to playing afterward. It's a goal I'm happy to support.

I remember playing a game of Battle Tech when I first got into gaming all those years ago. I'll check this out and get a feel fo or what I need. Is there a place I can have a good read if the background?

Thanks

And changing the 'Mechs supports that goal, how?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And changing the 'Mechs supports that goal, how?

I thought you were complaining about the new lances being all-IS classic designs ? (Which is exactly what they should be to support that goal, yes).

To a new player the 'Mechs mean nothing. They don't their Awesomes from the Atlases.

To the people who have been playing suddenly changing a 1/3rd of them is a somewhat bigger deal, especially when we were given no indication that so much would change. The poll was for the 'Mech we wanted to remove, we got one choice of every 'Mech so far, and figured there'd be one winner (or loser, depending on your point of view), not twelve.

I think that making the two user-created packs IntroTech is boring, but it just means they're ones I won't buy. Cutting out so many 'Mechs is a different story altogether.

And the main sticking point is that it was never explained in this manner.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
To a new player the 'Mechs mean nothing. They don't their Awesomes from the Atlases.

To the people who have been playing suddenly changing a 1/3rd of them is a somewhat bigger deal, especially when we were given no indication that so much would change. The poll was for the 'Mech we wanted to remove, we got one choice of every 'Mech so far, and figured there'd be one winner (or loser, depending on your point of view), not twelve.

I think that making the two user-created packs IntroTech is boring, but it just means they're ones I won't buy. Cutting out so many 'Mechs is a different story altogether.

And the main sticking point is that it was never explained in this manner.

IMHO the user creator packs should have been 1 IS pack and 1 clan pack, but *shrugs* my pledge isn't high eneugh to get a vote*

We thought everyone got a say, hence them asking for suggestions in the comments.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I think changing the offerings this sign ificantly is a really dumb move,


loads of backers pay little or no attention to a KS once the back, and will be expecting those now vanished mechs and be very annoyed when they hit the PM and find they're gone

Now that I think about it. What's even dumber is that they went made a big change and (IMHO) are not communicating it correctly to the backers. From the backer update:

"I’d originally thought of placing it into a graphic, but then realized it would be much easier for everyone to review the spreadsheet, determine which designs are being moved off the DropShip, and what the new Lance and Star Packs will entail."

I can't agree, the changes should be in a graphic, on the front page, replacing the old offer. Not on a google doc link in a backer only update. At least take down the old and incorrect info.

I personally am fine with the changes, its a w/e for me (though they should have left in the Kodiak lol). But this seems to be a sure fire way to court backer anger, for no apparent gain.

The apparent gain is not paying for a graphic. Those are expensive. Also, moving towards stuff that is cheaper/further along in development. They have lots of stuff 'in development' including Elementals. Anything they do to shorten that funnel of stuff they don't have production-ready is a benefit to them. Also a benefit to getting the KS fulfilled...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
To a new player the 'Mechs mean nothing. They don't their Awesomes from the Atlases.

Can confirm. It took me about a minute to realize that the Awesome is the name of a mech.

When it comes time to choose add ons. I'm going to be the perfect representation of that meme where the guy is looking at two red buttons and not knowing which to pick.

balmong7 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
To a new player the 'Mechs mean nothing. They don't their Awesomes from the Atlases.

Can confirm. It took me about a minute to realize that the Awesome is the name of a mech.

When it comes time to choose add ons. I'm going to be the perfect representation of that meme where the guy is looking at two red buttons and not knowing which to pick.

Isn't that meme about how one choice is obvious, but the dude is still sweating it anyways?

Nurglitch wrote:
The apparent gain is not paying for a graphic. Those are expensive. Also, moving towards stuff that is cheaper/further along in development. They have lots of stuff 'in development' including Elementals. Anything they do to shorten that funnel of stuff they don't have production-ready is a benefit to them. Also a benefit to getting the KS fulfilled...

But they haven't shortened anything. They've added to what they had to design.

Alternately, they've shuffled the KS to better match their production queue. Or I'm wrong. Either/or.

I’m really happy with the changes and the contents of the “mystery” lances. Getting cool updated sculpts for iconic and beloved ‘mechs is fantastic imho.

I can see why some people don’t like the changes, and I’m a bit baffled by the Kodiak change myself. I’m not trying to say anyone else’s opinion is wrong but I’m glad to be getting better minis for some of my favorite ‘mechs like the Hunchback and Cyclops.

Nurglitch wrote:
The apparent gain is not paying for a graphic. Those are expensive. Also, moving towards stuff that is cheaper/further along in development. They have lots of stuff 'in development' including Elementals. Anything they do to shorten that funnel of stuff they don't have production-ready is a benefit to them. Also a benefit to getting the KS fulfilled...

But the changes are the result of a fan vote. Are you suggesting that CGL's original production funnel was suboptimal, but the fan vote results actually managed to tighten and focus them? I feel that is implausible.

Regardless, my point was that that CGL should communicate this change better, to avoid future drama down the road. Starting with yes updating their graphic or at least taking it down. Is that really so weird to expect? Again, I am FINE with the changes, its just that I 100% guarantee some guy is saying ooooh I like this Berserker Lance, plops down 20 and then gets surprised and butthurt when he receives something else. Is CGL liable? Probably not. But we know people will whine anyway. Proper updating just seems like a logical way to settle any drama before it begins. My 2 c-bills.

No longer being produced-
Fire Falcon
Hellion
Kodiak
Whitworth
Bombardier
Howler (Baboon)
Solitaire
Pack Hunter
Scarybus
Firestarter Omni
Berserker
Hermes

I'll miss the Whitworth and Hermes. I would have liked to see the Fire Falcon, but as primarily a Jade Falcon 'mech I can understand it being cut for something that would be in more widespread use.

Will be produced-
Night Gyr
Linebacker
Behemoth (Stone Rhino)
Zeus
Stalker
Hellhound
Goshawk
Piranha
Cataphract
Bushwhacker
Axman
Nightstar

Scratching my head on the inclusion of the Night Gyr, Linebacker and Nightstar. Still no Ostroc or Ostsol

New lance-
Raven
Enforcer
Hunchback
Victor

The Raven seems a little too specialized to be included IMHO

New Lance-
Dragon
Thug
Cyclops
Spider

Why a Thug when we now have the Warhammer back?

And Sentinel.

 rabidaskal wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:
The apparent gain is not paying for a graphic. Those are expensive. Also, moving towards stuff that is cheaper/further along in development. They have lots of stuff 'in development' including Elementals. Anything they do to shorten that funnel of stuff they don't have production-ready is a benefit to them. Also a benefit to getting the KS fulfilled...

But the changes are the result of a fan vote. Are you suggesting that CGL's original production funnel was suboptimal, but the fan vote results actually managed to tighten and focus them? I feel that is implausible.

Regardless, my point was that that CGL should communicate this change better, to avoid future drama down the road. Starting with yes updating their graphic or at least taking it down. Is that really so weird to expect? Again, I am FINE with the changes, its just that I 100% guarantee some guy is saying ooooh I like this Berserker Lance, plops down 20 and then gets surprised and butthurt when he receives something else. Is CGL liable? Probably not. But we know people will whine anyway. Proper updating just seems like a logical way to settle any drama before it begins. My 2 c-bills.

Maybe they weren't anticipating quite this level of funding and they're pivoting to make sure that their production structure lines up with their KS structure. For all the savings they make on being able to make a bigger order, they'll incur more costs (paid off over the long run) in bringing 'mechs to plastic. It looks like they're going to make a lot of money, but in terms of what's left over after everyone is paid? I'm making the assumption that any changes they make are to their benefit, as well as the perceived benefit of the people they consulted about the change. The benefit that strikes me is moving stuff that was planned for a regular release following AGOAC being shuffled into the KS order. Of course, I could be completely wrong. I've noticed that happening with increasing frequency of late.

That said, I'm excited to see what they'll do with a plastic Stalker.

So now the grogs have won what's the bet you get a lot of dropout's from the higher tier pledges as the have all ready voted.

The other option is catalyst have gak the bed and realised they have no chance of.producing that many techs and have swapped out stuff to make production easier.

It wouldn't be a KS for giant stompy robots without some drama!

SeanDrake wrote:
So now the grogs have won what's the bet you get a lot of dropout's from the higher tier pledges as the have all ready voted.

The other option is catalyst have gak the bed and realised they have no chance of.producing that many techs and have swapped out stuff to make production easier.

I don't see how Catalyst can be worry about production problems seeing how they probably haven't begun production on any plastic miniatures beyond the five in the boxset and the first couple packs (which haven't changed). I'll be watching the Kicktraq data, but I'd bet any potential losses from this dustup are offset by Gencon excitement.