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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


Does that mean Vehicles are going to have fewer wounds, but a better save?

Guilliman already confirms that.

Amazing that the jokes are seemingly real now and people are going to play Epic with 40k minis

While I site here and wish for new tinier dudes to play with. My Mooncloon Squigbeasts/mini-trolls and my Nurglings could be heroes or spawns or squiggoths. Battles would've never looked so cute!

PS: Regimental Standard was pretty amazing. Poem (singular) for everyone!

So far the onlu thing I have seen that I think they may have got wrong yet I kind of understand is the 2 small blasts becoming 1 large.

If that should be house ruled as all smalls stay small and a large has to come from a single attack, is one option.

The second is just to change up the ratio if 2 small = 1 large is a bit much move it to 3 or 4 small to a large blast.

Also I really do hope this does scale down to 2-3k games as for whatever reason it feels way more appealing than 8th edition currently is.

 Binabik15 wrote:
Amazing that the jokes are seemingly real now and people are going to play Epic with 40k minis

They used to run games of 1st edition Epic using 40k models at Games Day. That sounds like an exercise in tedium for all concerned.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/06/20/faction-focus-astra-militarumgw-homepage-post-4/

Guard faction focus is up, and confirms that Baneblade variants are 5 wounds with a 6+ save. I expect Knights are pretty close to that too.

The Deathstrike looks potentially hilarious if used with the Divine Intervention asset they showed yesterday...

I am becoming more interested in this the more they reveal.

Giant units of IG tanks rumbling forwards really does sum up Apoc nicely

I see we can add chapter tactics to the pile of things that require hitting the lottery to actually use.

This seems like they are sacrificing the epicness of Apoc for speed of play.

I may be wrong, but having 5 guys with 1 attack and wound on a 6+ save. Just looks very fragile (and another $ generating scheme).

I like the idea of simultaneous damage, at least in the shooting phase. And depending on how it turns out could be something I would like to see in regular 40k play. Could help with alpha striking.

And a baneblade has 5 wounds and a 6+ save. That seems very fragile to me.

 Dynas wrote:
This seems like they are sacrificing the epicness of Apoc for speed of play.

I may be wrong, but having 5 guys with 1 attack and wound on a 6+ save. Just looks very fragile (and another $ generating scheme).

I like the idea of simultaneous damage, at least in the shooting phase. And depending on how it turns out could be something I would like to see in regular 40k play. Could help with alpha striking.

And a baneblade has 5 wounds and a 6+ save. That seems very fragile to me.

Epic did it for years and Armageddon is still arguably one of the best rule sets ever produced which a lot of this seems based on, just updated. That said they gave baneblades more wounds and slightly less armor (in epic it's got 3 "wounds" but a 4+ rerollable against most most weapons). I'm kinda excited to see what they come up with. And then use epic models with the rules

MY big concern right now is that if Troops are required to hold objectives. but most troops units can wiped with 2 large blast markers. Then how will that balance? Is there some way to protect my troops while holding objectives? Or are the big units going to be important enough that my opponent has to focus on them rather than just wiping my troops and my ability to take objectives?

It's a 6+ save on a 12-sided die.

Take 5 Intercessors shooting at 5 other Intercessors;

one shot (in fact, let's assume Rapid Fire is the same here, so potentially 2 shots), hitting on a 5+ (66%). Damages on a 5+ (66%). The opposing unit then saves on a 6+ against one hit.

The firing unit has a 1/9 chance of missing completely, a 4/9 chance of exactly one hit and a 4/9 chance of exactly two hits


If the firing unit hits once, there's a 2/3 chance it'll inflict a small blast marker and a 5/12 chance the target will fail its save and take a wound. Overall, 4/9 * 4/9 * 5/12 = 10/243 = 4%

If it hits twice, then it's 4/9 chance of 1 wound, 4/9 chance of two. If it only inflicts 1 wound, then it's the same chance to fail a save and cause a point of damage; 4%

if it does two wounds, then there's no chance to save, so the unit takes a point of damage, 44% chance.

Overall, one Marine unit shooting at another will have a roughly 53% chance of inflicting one wound, with no chance to wipe the target out completely.

In 40 it's possible (although unlikely) for the five intercessors to wipe out five opposing Primaris Marines.

5W with a 6+ means you need 12 blast markers (= 6 large blast markers) to destroy it.
It feels fragile, but many units only have 1-2 attacks, that still need to hit and wound, so it will still take a lot of firepower to remove.
Intercessors for instance need a 3+ to hit, but a 8+ to wound (equivalent to a 4+ on a D6), with a single attack per 5 models. So you need 27 units, or 14 in RF range. That's 70 intercessor models. Obviously they're not good anti-tank units but still. I think we need to get used to not rolling buckets of dice.

It's 8+ to Wound against tanks for Intercessors; 5+ SAP.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
It's 8+ to Wound against tanks for Intercessors; 5+ SAP.

Yes, I was responding to the comment on Baneblade. I missed your earlier post on Intercessors shooting at each other, hence the confusion.

balmong7 wrote:
MY big concern right now is that if Troops are required to hold objectives. but most troops units can wiped with 2 large blast markers. Then how will that balance? Is there some way to protect my troops while holding objectives? Or are the big units going to be important enough that my opponent has to focus on them rather than just wiping my troops and my ability to take objectives?

The main answer to that is going to be Command Assets. We've already seen a few that would help achieve what you want:

Go to Ground doubles the result of any infantry saving throws, allowing the possibility to save even against large blasts.
Divine Intervention lets you change a single dice roll to a result of your choice
Grot Shields for Orks lets them transfer blast markers

We've only seen around a dozen of the 400 different cards. I expect if you want to build an army around stubborn infantry it'll certainly be possible to do so.

This doesn't look as random as people seem to think to me. With a deck of 30 cards, a large selection to choose from (some are bound to duplicate effect), deckbuilding and multiple draw a turn this could be quite an interesting mechanic.

They got an official site now: https://warhammer40000.com/apocalypse/

With a rundown of the box contents, how to play and where you can find the datasheets soon.

The new site is up with a How To Play video
https://warhammer40000.com/apocalypse/

It previews of several new command asset cards (mostly AdMech) and a few datasheets. The Boyz & Intercessor sheets pretty much match what I posted on the last page:

Intercessor Squad (5 models) 2 wounds 1 attack = 6 power
Intercessor Squad (10 models) 4 wounds 2 attacks = 12 power

Ork Boyz (10 models) 2 wounds, 1 attacks, Ld5 = 4 power
Ork Boyz (20 models) 4 wounds, 2 attacks, Ld6 = 8 power
Ork Boyz (30 models) 6 wounds, 4 attacks, Ld7 = 13 power
10+ Save

Necron Warriors (10 models) 2 wounds 2 attacks = 6 power
Necron Warriors (20 models) 4 wounds 4 attacks = 14 power
8+ save

Grotz (10 models) 2 wounds 2 attacks = 1 power
Grotz (20 models) 4 wounds 4 attacks = 2 power
Grotz (30 models) 6 wounds 6 attacks = 3 power
They have 11+ save and can take a Runtherd to bump Ld from 4 to 6

edit: it also confirms special / heavy weapons are still around.

Morale checks are taken for damaged units, roll a D6 and add the current # of blast markers. If that beats their leadership, add another damage marker.

I am so sold on this game right now.

Wait what am I missing? Why do 10 Necrons get 2 attacks but 10 Orks don’t? Is that a typo or are those shooting attacks?

Yep looks like all the infantry stands in a unit pool their wounds and only die once enough damage is accumulated to kill the whole lot.

This looks like a super slick system with the one downside that it will be annoying to handle and track all the tokens. Good lord, there's gonna be a lot of tokens. I do appreciate that they all have a little arrow so you can face them towards the unit they apply to.

 zend wrote:
Wait what am I missing? Why do 10 Necrons get 2 attacks but 10 Orks don’t? Is that a typo or are those shooting attacks?

Some weapons multiply the base attacks for the unit. Ork 'close combat weapons' multiply by two, while Choppas multiply by 3.

....Huh. So until an entire unit is totally destroyed it just sticks around at full strength? interesting. I guess the LD is the drawback here.

 xttz wrote:

 zend wrote:
Wait what am I missing? Why do 10 Necrons get 2 attacks but 10 Orks don’t? Is that a typo or are those shooting attacks?

Some weapons multiply the base attacks for the unit. Ork 'close combat weapons' multiply by two, while Choppas multiply by 3.

Okay that makes sense. So units without melee war gear options are gonna be capped at their base attacks until buff aura/command cards/psychic shenanigans come into play.

I haven't watched the video yet, and I don't know if it's been mentioned elsewhere, but do we know what kind of points or power level we're talking about for apocalypse?

Quasistellar wrote:
I haven't watched the video yet, and I don't know if it's been mentioned elsewhere, but do we know what kind of points or power level we're talking about for apocalypse?

It looks like the game uses power levels exclusively, judging from the sample datasheets shown.

Do the power levels shown so far match 40k power levels or does it look like its independent?

I guess in some ways it doesn't matter, since nothing suggests you can do 10 power fist shenanigans like you can with 40k power levels.

Sterling191 wrote:
I see we can add chapter tactics to the pile of things that require hitting the lottery to actually use.

But how would you forge a narrative without RNG?

 Peregrine wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
I see we can add chapter tactics to the pile of things that require hitting the lottery to actually use.

But how would you forge a narrative without RNG?

you don't RNG is incrediably important because it adds an element of uncertainty to the game. step back a moment and think about the games you remember years down the road. what stands out about them? in almost every case it's a lucky roll at a critical time allowing you to pull victory from the ajws of defeat, or defeat from the jaws of victory etc. no one remembers that time their abaddon slew a guardsman, but that time you actually killed abaddon the despoiler in melee with a guardsman is gonna be a story worth telling.