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MistaGav wrote:
BoLS put a video and article of the new repulsor and it shows to have 3 sprues. The two sprues to make up the base of the tank and the newer one so maybe hold off for now. They also have full datasheets confirming points and rules.

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2019/06/40k-primaris-executioner-a-look-inside.html

With this and the wrong Spiritseer being shown with the Eldar box, it looks like somebody at GW web store department was having a bad day when they put up this weeks releases then. I still ordered a couple of Repulsors though. Cant expect my Primaris to walk everywhere, not even the Skittari do that anymore

What's this about a 'wrong' spirit seer?

Voss wrote:
What's this about a 'wrong' spirit seer?

The box contents picture on the web store is showing the resin spirit seer rather than the Wake the Dead Seer shows on the box (not sure if it’s been fixed or not).

The box shows the plastic one that came with Wake the Dead while the product info shows the discontinued resin.

 xttz wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
This is it for apoc, don't expect anything else ever. The fact that they are giving away the data sheets for free should tell you the level of future energy GW will put into this.

The simple test for this theory will be seeing if future 40K releases get covered by Apoc datasheets. Obviously they've already done Chaos Knights so we may have to wait a little while.

I have the 6th edition Special Edition Apocalypse Boxed set, the one that came in a crate and was very expensive. Never played a single game.

While GW did nothing to support the game after the release, it would be hard to put the blame on them. Most of the people I planned to play with lacked the models to field an army. Space and time were issues, one would need to set aside an entire weekend for a game. 30k competed with Apocalypse, I was spending time on my Sons of Horus instead of thinking about this game.

Feels like GW has taken steps to address some of the issues. The new version of Apocalypse is highly streamlined by comparison, I could see completing a game in an afternoon. The fact they are discounting boxed sets is nice, anything to reduce the cost is welcome.

Let's see what happens. This still looks to be a specialist game but I'm optimistic it will be around for a while.

Is this going to be fun? It doesn't look like any of the work anyone has done on say, a unit of tactical marines will be taken into account. They're just going to be a no-nuance two attack blob regardless of whether they're flamer/HB or melta/MM.

With the way everything seems to need to (safely) move around in the commander bubbles, are objectives going to be an actual thing or will the objectives be more like arena zones that X detachments blob into and get stuck in?

This really, really, really feels like there was another Epic scale game being developed (for use with Titanicus) with ludicrous numbers of tiny bodies being in play and now it's a 28mm scale game for... reasons...

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Always need more dice.

Want all the dice.

All. Of. Them.

and here I thought my cats were the ones taking my dice.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 xttz wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
This is it for apoc, don't expect anything else ever. The fact that they are giving away the data sheets for free should tell you the level of future energy GW will put into this.

The simple test for this theory will be seeing if future 40K releases get covered by Apoc datasheets. Obviously they've already done Chaos Knights so we may have to wait a little while.

I have the 6th edition Special Edition Apocalypse Boxed set, the one that came in a crate and was very expensive. Never played a single game.

While GW did nothing to support the game after the release, it would be hard to put the blame on them. Most of the people I planned to play with lacked the models to field an army. Space and time were issues, one would need to set aside an entire weekend for a game. 30k competed with Apocalypse, I was spending time on my Sons of Horus instead of thinking about this game.

Feels like GW has taken steps to address some of the issues. The new version of Apocalypse is highly streamlined by comparison, I could see completing a game in an afternoon. The fact they are discounting boxed sets is nice, anything to reduce the cost is welcome.

Let's see what happens. This still looks to be a specialist game but I'm optimistic it will be around for a while.

Like the last couple of times it’ll get brief attention then die out, but not until after GW has made its summer budget by selling bundles and cardboard.

PoorGravitasHandling wrote:
Is this going to be fun? It doesn't look like any of the work anyone has done on say, a unit of tactical marines will be taken into account. They're just going to be a no-nuance two attack blob regardless of whether they're flamer/HB or melta/MM.

With the way everything seems to need to (safely) move around in the commander bubbles, are objectives going to be an actual thing or will the objectives be more like arena zones that X detachments blob into and get stuck in?

This really, really, really feels like there was another Epic scale game being developed (for use with Titanicus) with ludicrous numbers of tiny bodies being in play and now it's a 28mm scale game for... reasons...

The reason is that they don't want to split the 6mm customers and the 28mm customers. I have enough 28mm models to play this at around the 300 PL level. I even own some terrain we can use. If they released this as a 6mm game or as a titanicus expansion, then I probably wouldn't even bother looking at it. I don't want to split my money between 2 different scales. Maybe I'm weird for that, but GW is making money off of me that they wouldn't have if this launched as a 6mm game.

Apoc is and always has been a support product for 40K. It's not really designed to be its own game like Adepticus Titanicus or Necromunda.

It's there for when clubs want everyone to take part or when mega collectors in the group want to have a mega game.


Sure GW markets it heavily with some battle formation kits (discounted) and some materials and such at launch, but by and large Apoc isn't a game in its own right. It just bolts onto the side of 40K and GW will focus their core energy on 40K. Mostly because whilst they'd love it, the average gamer is not doing to start their 40K life building an Apoc army. It's the kind of thing you might have after years of building and collecting and otherwise is when you're playing team games.



If GW were doing a remake of Epic then they'd likely have a totally different focus and the costs to get involved would be far far less.
What is more likely is that:

a) The new rules focus is based on feedback from the last apoc version in steamlining the game and making it work better at the apoc scale.

b) A soft test of potentially bringing back Epic rules sets for a much further off release. Baring in mind that Apoc on tabletop and Epic are very different beasts. Apoc is more likely to have random faction alliances within each side; more likely to have less ideal formation and unit choice and fewer exotics like baneblades and titans in general.

Bless them for putting in the disclaimer at the end, as some people..

Lol love it!



Though I'd kinda like a followup video showing one or two armies worth of models actually stored within it for a visual display. I'm sure GW could round up their Primaris army, something swarmy like orks and then something monstrous heavy like Tyranids and then a knight force. Just to give people some realistic ideas of what the case can hold.

 Fan67 wrote:

stratigo wrote:
I feel like GW priced some units like toughness was still a thing, giving steep discounts of t3 and making t5 and 6 real expensive. Except toughness doesn't exist.

Have yet to find competitive infantry in apoc.
Glanced through all datasheets: vehicles ftw!

Found any peculiar OP stuff yet?

Well, deathwatch can have 4heavy weapons for troops, and space wolves have jump packs as an option for blood claws.
Other than troops role, everything else seems to do same as in 40k, with a minor tweaks.

Wait where are you guys seeing discounts on the bundles? The crimson air wing detachment is $195, a single eldar flyer is $65, no savings there, 3x Wraithknight is $345, again no savings.

sturguard wrote:
Wait where are you guys seeing discounts on the bundles? The crimson air wing detachment is $195, a single eldar flyer is $65, no savings there, 3x Wraithknight is $345, again no savings.

The 10 actual boxes they did, the £100 ones, had savings. The other bundles don’t.

Is anyone else unable to preorder the Knights box at all?
I remember checking yesterday at like 10 am, not available as the only box of the entire bunch.
Still today, not available.
Element games lists it as GW Online store only...

What gives?
Did it sell out on the very first day in the first half hour? o_O

It sold out very quickly from almost all the online stores. GW may get in some extra copies if you set an email stock reminder.

You may be able to find a copy on one of the more obscure stores, that’s how I found my copy (although didn’t get the usual discount as they took advantage of the high demand).

SamusDrake wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Always need more dice.

Want all the dice.

All. Of. Them.

Dammit, you must be stopped!

The Doc is... mad!

 xttz wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
This is it for apoc, don't expect anything else ever. The fact that they are giving away the data sheets for free should tell you the level of future energy GW will put into this.

The simple test for this theory will be seeing if future 40K releases get covered by Apoc datasheets. Obviously they've already done Chaos Knights so we may have to wait a little while.

yeah they've also covered the multipart vanguard primaris it seems so... yeah we'll likely have to wait for sisters of battle to know for sure

 Fan67 wrote:

stratigo wrote:
I feel like GW priced some units like toughness was still a thing, giving steep discounts of t3 and making t5 and 6 real expensive. Except toughness doesn't exist.

Have yet to find competitive infantry in apoc.
Glanced through all datasheets: vehicles ftw!

Found any peculiar OP stuff yet?

Harlies are probly gonna be nuts with all the stacking defensive bonuses and their insane damage output. They outfit anything I statted them against infantry wise.

I mean knights seem to be, if anything, even stronger in apoc. I'm not entirely surprised about that considering this is apoc though. Specifically I think the valient is kind of the big winner here, but that might be board dependent since it's such a short range knight

Drukhari infantry is crazy cheap and kabalites have amazing anti infantry firepower. But the army as a whole is lacking in all the bells and whistles other armies get. They're worse then harlies whose defensive tricks overcome their lack of tools. Though we don't know what drukhari get as an army.

Hormagaunts are a very good infantry unit getting a pile of wounds and attacks for cheap.

Oh the swarmlord is crazy fugging good. An infinitely better killer than G man, which makes me a bit sad. I think Gman isn't gonna get the ability to hide like he does in 40k either and so will actually be near worthless, since space marines can't take tyrant guard and foist wounds off on a 6 wound unit. Unless you're burning a bunch of points for multiple small honor guard units.

Watching a few gameplay throughs, I am a bit confused about characters and targeting, they either can't be, or can be, but at a minus one. If it is the second, characters are immediately hugely devalued since they are so very easy to kill.

stratigo wrote:

 Fan67 wrote:

stratigo wrote:
I feel like GW priced some units like toughness was still a thing, giving steep discounts of t3 and making t5 and 6 real expensive. Except toughness doesn't exist.

Have yet to find competitive infantry in apoc.
Glanced through all datasheets: vehicles ftw!

Found any peculiar OP stuff yet?

Harlies are probly gonna be nuts with all the stacking defensive bonuses and their insane damage output. They outfit anything I statted them against infantry wise.

I mean knights seem to be, if anything, even stronger in apoc. I'm not entirely surprised about that considering this is apoc though. Specifically I think the valient is kind of the big winner here, but that might be board dependent since it's such a short range knight

Drukhari infantry is crazy cheap and kabalites have amazing anti infantry firepower. But the army as a whole is lacking in all the bells and whistles other armies get. They're worse then harlies whose defensive tricks overcome their lack of tools. Though we don't know what drukhari get as an army.

Hormagaunts are a very good infantry unit getting a pile of wounds and attacks for cheap.

Oh the swarmlord is crazy fugging good. An infinitely better killer than G man, which makes me a bit sad. I think Gman isn't gonna get the ability to hide like he does in 40k either and so will actually be near worthless, since space marines can't take tyrant guard and foist wounds off on a 6 wound unit. Unless you're burning a bunch of points for multiple small honor guard units.

Watching a few gameplay throughs, I am a bit confused about characters and targeting, they either can't be, or can be, but at a minus one. If it is the second, characters are immediately hugely devalued since they are so very easy to kill.

My guess is it'll be free targeting but at a -2, or a -1 base and another -1 if they're within 3" of a friendly unit. Age of Sigmar has them at -1 if within 3" of a friendly unit, but that's IMO not enough for apoc.

This is purely conjecture based on Sniper trait being a +2.

Haven't found an answer in any of the battle reports yet, but can anyone tell me what the advantage is of having "up to" 4 Heavy weapons in a unit like Purgation squad?

Am I missing a part of the shooting sequence or stats on the weapon when looking at a 5 man squad etc?

The CSM one is a stonking great disappointment just for the sheer spam of CSM.

Ah well.

Flogging my WE, hopefully get funds to start a new Black Legion army, may just grab a box at discount from FLGS to start the new army off. At one point worked out I might have had enough left for a second box...

Then realised there was no options and the Knight options are terrible...plus odds are the Chaos Knights are going to be almost as much as the box alone. RIP.

 Da-Rock wrote:
Haven't found an answer in any of the battle reports yet, but can anyone tell me what the advantage is of having "up to" 4 Heavy weapons in a unit like Purgation squad?

Am I missing a part of the shooting sequence or stats on the weapon when looking at a 5 man squad etc?

For Grey Knight Purgation squad it specifies that you only get their stormbolters if you have 10 or more models in the unit, or no heavy weapons. So if you take a 5 man squad with any heavy weapons, their only shooting attacks will be those heavy weapons. But if you have a 10 man squad it looks like you get 4 stormbolter shots, plus the shots from the heavy weapons. So for example a unit of 10 with 4 Psilencers get 12 shots.

As far as I can tell, the only time you lose access to basic attacks when buying special weapon upgrades is when it specifies it like the purgation squad, whereas a unit of 5 CSMs can take a heavy weapon and just add it on top of their base shooting attack.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
The CSM one is a stonking great disappointment just for the sheer spam of CSM.

Ah well.

Flogging my WE, hopefully get funds to start a new Black Legion army, may just grab a box at discount from FLGS to start the new army off. At one point worked out I might have had enough left for a second box...

Then realised there was no options and the Knight options are terrible...plus odds are the Chaos Knights are going to be almost as much as the box alone. RIP.

If you're starting a new CSM army the CSM box is a great deal so long as you're intreasting in running CSMs as troops.

 zend wrote:

 Da-Rock wrote:
Haven't found an answer in any of the battle reports yet, but can anyone tell me what the advantage is of having "up to" 4 Heavy weapons in a unit like Purgation squad?

Am I missing a part of the shooting sequence or stats on the weapon when looking at a 5 man squad etc?

For Grey Knight Purgation squad it specifies that you only get their stormbolters if you have 10 or more models in the unit, or no heavy weapons. So if you take a 5 man squad with any heavy weapons, their only shooting attacks will be those heavy weapons. But if you have a 10 man squad it looks like you get 4 stormbolter shots, plus the shots from the heavy weapons. So for example a unit of 10 with 4 Psilencers get 12 shots.

As far as I can tell, the only time you lose access to basic attacks when buying special weapon upgrades is when it specifies it like the purgation squad, whereas a unit of 5 CSMs can take a heavy weapon and just add it on top of their base shooting attack.

Oh, so unlike small arms fire, Heavy weapon stats for attack are "per gun" and not just one or two shots like said small arms. (Is that correct?)

 Da-Rock wrote:

 zend wrote:

 Da-Rock wrote:
Haven't found an answer in any of the battle reports yet, but can anyone tell me what the advantage is of having "up to" 4 Heavy weapons in a unit like Purgation squad?

Am I missing a part of the shooting sequence or stats on the weapon when looking at a 5 man squad etc?

For Grey Knight Purgation squad it specifies that you only get their stormbolters if you have 10 or more models in the unit, or no heavy weapons. So if you take a 5 man squad with any heavy weapons, their only shooting attacks will be those heavy weapons. But if you have a 10 man squad it looks like you get 4 stormbolter shots, plus the shots from the heavy weapons. So for example a unit of 10 with 4 Psilencers get 12 shots.

As far as I can tell, the only time you lose access to basic attacks when buying special weapon upgrades is when it specifies it like the purgation squad, whereas a unit of 5 CSMs can take a heavy weapon and just add it on top of their base shooting attack.

Oh, so unlike small arms fire, Heavy weapon stats for attack are "per gun" and not just one or two shots like said small arms. (Is that correct?)

Weapons that have attack numbers other than "user" are per weapon in the squad


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh wow, bullgryns get an attack a model Yikes for 4 for 3. That is insanity. They kill custodes guard squad with stormshields in two turns and take all of .8 wounds out of the 4 they have at 6.

stratigo wrote:



Weapons that have attack numbers other than "user" are per weapon in the squad


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh wow, bullgryns get an attack a model Yikes for 4 for 3. That is insanity. They kill custodes guard squad with stormshields in two turns and take all of .8 wounds out of the 4 they have at 6.

What? I count a (roughly estimated) average 2 large blasts inflicted by a unit of 3. The mauls are strong, but each Bullgryn only gets 1 attack with it, while the shields only have SAP 8+. 3 maul attacks + 2 shield attacks. I'm guessing a unit of 3 Bullgryn will probably only cause 1 damage against Custodes with their 4+ save, and that's assuming Custodes without storm shields.

Snugiraffe wrote:

stratigo wrote:



Weapons that have attack numbers other than "user" are per weapon in the squad


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh wow, bullgryns get an attack a model Yikes for 4 for 3. That is insanity. They kill custodes guard squad with stormshields in two turns and take all of .8 wounds out of the 4 they have at 6.

What? I count a (roughly estimated) average 2 large blasts inflicted by a unit of 3. The mauls are strong, but each Bullgryn only gets 1 attack with it, while the shields only have SAP 8+. 3 maul attacks + 2 shield attacks. I'm guessing a unit of 3 Bullgryn will probably only cause 1 damage against Custodes with their 4+ save, and that's assuming Custodes without storm shields.

I was using a unit of 6 bullgryns, since 6 bullgryns is the same amount of points as 3 custodes with stormshield.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another fun bit of math, in rapid fire range, a hurricane bolter inflicts roughly .9 wounds while a salvo launcher inflicts roughly .7. Hurricane bolter bikes remain the vastly superior option against anything that lacks super sonic (or harley vehicles, we'll see if anti air is like 40k or not)

So, i've just noticed from video reviews that there are no more brigade detachment available..