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I dont like the ballistarii without the strat shooting is inferior to our heavy support choices and with the strat you need to clump them into one big unit and then they are squishy

But superior when you do have CP to power that stratagem.

Just saying, my Ironstriders always outlived my Robots, Knight, and Dragoons.

hey guys. So I am not playing pure AdMech. I think there are certain threads in play that need to be dealt with in another way. However, I do hope you guys have some C&C for my list. This is going to get played in ITC and ETC format games. I am not sure about the Arquebusses and what to do with the leftover points plus the mixed Forgeworld detachment but hey, thats what CC is for

+ Battalion Detachment +
+ HQ +
Captain: Jump Pack, Storm shield, The Angel's Wing (replaces jump pack), Thunder hammer
Captain: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

+ Troops +
Scout Squad with CC weapons
Scout Squad with CC weapons
Scout Squad with CC weapons


++ Battalion Detachment +
Forge World Choice: Forge World: <Mixed>

+ HQ +
Tech-Priest Enginseer, ?
Tech-Priest Enginseer, ?

+ Troops +
Skitarii Vanguards, Graia
Skitarii Vanguards, Graia
Skitarii Vanguards, Graia

+ Heavy Support +
Onager Dunecrawler, Icarus Array, ?
Onager Dunecrawler, Icarus Array, ?

++ Battalion Detachment
. Forge World: Stygies VIII
Specialist Detachment: Servitor Maniple [-1CP]

+ HQ +
Tech-Priest Dominus
Tech-Priest Manipulus, Transonic cannon

+ Troops +
9 Kataphron Breachers
Skitarii Rangers: Transuranic Arquebus
Skitarii Rangers: Transuranic Arquebus

+ Elites +
4x Servitor (Servo arm)

+ Fast Attack +
4xSydonian Dragoons

+ Heavy Support +
Skorpius Disintegrator, Belleros Energy Cannon, 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber
Skorpius Disintegrator, Belleros Energy Cannon, 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber
Skorpius Disintegrator, Belleros Energy Cannon, 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber

++ Total: [134 PL, 6CP, 1,988pts] ++

 Suzuteo wrote:
But superior when you do have CP to power that stratagem.

Just saying, my Ironstriders always outlived my Robots, Knight, and Dragoons.

But thats because the dragoons and knight are perceived as bigger threats and they probably are if you not up against eldar flyers


Automatically Appended Next Post:



In the list I would swap the icarus for two of the scorpius the icarus are more likely to be at the back more than 12 from the enemy the scorpius havee to get a bit closer.

Put the breachers in the mixed and make them.a 6 and a 3 or a 6 and 6 and make them agripinaa for the strat

Arquebusses are not good unless you have enough to be consistant 6ish

 Suzuteo wrote:
But superior when you do have CP to power that stratagem.

Just saying, my Ironstriders always outlived my Robots, Knight, and Dragoons.

So basically the key is to have bigger threats on the board to get shot at first. The ballistari succeed at being powerful for how unthreatening they are?

Pomguo wrote:

 Suzuteo wrote:
But superior when you do have CP to power that stratagem.

Just saying, my Ironstriders always outlived my Robots, Knight, and Dragoons.

So basically the key is to have bigger threats on the board to get shot at first. The ballistari succeed at being powerful for how unthreatening they are?

thats the thing, most people are scared of knights/kastellans and dragoons because they see them often. when you bring ballistarii, you add yet another threat to the list. Thats why admech is a good army, most of our units can carry the game by themselves. Getting 3-4 turns of unchallenged shooting with ballistarii (either guns) will do a lot of damageto the opponent while they whittle down the other threats in the army.

I personally havnt tried a big blob of them since i value the map control they give me. I can easily advance them on a faraway objective and keep harassing the opponent all game long. Keep in mind this is before the skorpius release so i'll probably use the skorpius for that strategy and run bigger units of ballistarii.

I honestly think that running Ballistarii instead of kastellan is a better option. Kastellan have lots of dakka but they require a hefty points / command points for something that can easily be countered by my opponent.

Pomguo wrote:

 Suzuteo wrote:
But superior when you do have CP to power that stratagem.

Just saying, my Ironstriders always outlived my Robots, Knight, and Dragoons.

So basically the key is to have bigger threats on the board to get shot at first. The ballistari succeed at being powerful for how unthreatening they are?

They are threatening, just not as much as melee units. Or dealing with them would require massive overextending making you voulnerable. And you have to deal with dragons and fulgurites that not only will destroy units in cc, but also bind them so they won't be able to shoot. Key is to have threats overload, so while balistari are pain in the ass, there are other threats that need to be done with ASAP, most of the time "right now".

@U02dah4
Precisely. Protection by obscurity and opportunity.

@Iago40k
Give the second Captain a Hammer of Baal. That or make him Mephiston.

I am thoroughly convinced that anything less than 6x Arquebus is a waste of points. You won't kill anything of note quickly enough to make a difference.

If you are doing Stygies, you want the make sure your entire firebase has -1 to hit. Another plus for Las-Striders: They go into your Fast Attack slot.

If your Dragoons are magnetized, maybe cut them, the Snipers, and Crawlers for 4x Las-Striders and an Assassin? Got 100+ points to spare.

Magnetized my first skorpius

https://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-115163-61446_Skorpius%20Magnetization.html

Octovol wrote:
Magnetized my first skorpius

https://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-115163-61446_Skorpius%20Magnetization.html

im glad that its quite easy to magnetize. I just wish that they turrets were compatible out of the box, as it is , i cant mount stubbers on the disintegrator turret and vice versa. I had to put some styrene rods to extend the connectors on the stubber, it works but i feel like they might break off eventually.

I'm looking to add a Patrol of Graia AdMech to my Knights list... a Techpriest, some Rangers, and 2 Dunecrawlers. I was originally thinking 2 Icarus Arrays, but now I'm wondering if I should do 1 Icarus Array and 1 Neutron Laser.

I mostly want to kill Eldar Flyers, and a Neutron Laser hitting on a 3+ with the +2 to hit stratagem seems like it would do the job quite well, with the Icarus crawler there to try to land some extra hits to hopefully finish it after I spend the CP on the neutron laser crawler.

Anyone have any other suggestions on how to kit out 2 Crawlers to support Knights?

 Horst wrote:
I'm looking to add a Patrol of Graia AdMech to my Knights list... a Techpriest, some Rangers, and 2 Dunecrawlers. I was originally thinking 2 Icarus Arrays, but now I'm wondering if I should do 1 Icarus Array and 1 Neutron Laser.

I mostly want to kill Eldar Flyers, and a Neutron Laser hitting on a 3+ with the +2 to hit stratagem seems like it would do the job quite well, with the Icarus crawler there to try to land some extra hits to hopefully finish it after I spend the CP on the neutron laser crawler.

Anyone have any other suggestions on how to kit out 2 Crawlers to support Knights?

If you're going to support Knights, you don't really need a Neutron. It's not the best kit out there, and IK doesn't need help with AT. IMO it's a choice between Icarus for AA, or Skorpius Desintegrator for 3D3 S6/-1/2 mortars.

 Horst wrote:
I'm looking to add a Patrol of Graia AdMech to my Knights list... a Techpriest, some Rangers, and 2 Dunecrawlers. I was originally thinking 2 Icarus Arrays, but now I'm wondering if I should do 1 Icarus Array and 1 Neutron Laser.

I mostly want to kill Eldar Flyers, and a Neutron Laser hitting on a 3+ with the +2 to hit stratagem seems like it would do the job quite well, with the Icarus crawler there to try to land some extra hits to hopefully finish it after I spend the CP on the neutron laser crawler.

Anyone have any other suggestions on how to kit out 2 Crawlers to support Knights?

Don't take Neutrons. Other go 2xicarus or maybe balistarii. Knights have enough antitank power, and better one than neutrons at that, given that everything and its mother have inv 5+ or better in todays meta so quantity over quality is way to go. Icarus on other hand have enough daka that it will work even with -1 to hit. The question is what knight will be supported?

 Spera wrote:

 Horst wrote:
I'm looking to add a Patrol of Graia AdMech to my Knights list... a Techpriest, some Rangers, and 2 Dunecrawlers. I was originally thinking 2 Icarus Arrays, but now I'm wondering if I should do 1 Icarus Array and 1 Neutron Laser.

I mostly want to kill Eldar Flyers, and a Neutron Laser hitting on a 3+ with the +2 to hit stratagem seems like it would do the job quite well, with the Icarus crawler there to try to land some extra hits to hopefully finish it after I spend the CP on the neutron laser crawler.

Anyone have any other suggestions on how to kit out 2 Crawlers to support Knights?

Don't take Neutrons. Other go 2xicarus or maybe balistarii. Knights have enough antitank power, and better one than neutrons at that, given that everything and its mother have inv 5+ or better in todays meta so quantity over quality is way to go. Icarus on other hand have enough daka that it will work even with -1 to hit. The question is what knight will be supported?

2x Crusaders, 1 Warden. Sorry, should have been specific. List looks like:

House Krast, 2x Crusaders, Both with Ironstorm Launchers, one with a Battle Cannon, other with a Thermal Cannon. Warden with an Ironstorm Launcher.

Vostroyan Imperial Guard Battalion, Punisher Tank Commander, Company Commander, 3x Infantry Squads

Then the AdMech Patrol from Graia.

I don't have a lot of high quality shooting, but a large amount of mid strength mid AP 2 damage weapons. My thoughts behind the Neutron laser were that it would be ideal at shooting down Hemlock flyers. with +2 to hit, I cancel out their -2 to hit, and they don't get saves against it. So with Canticles, I can hit on a 3+ re-rolling 1's, wounding on 3+, and he doesn't get saves.

Only one of your dunecrawlers will get that +2 to hit from the strat, the other is left handling the -2 to hit with no support. They aren’t a squad.

An Icarus Onager in the same scenario would be hitting on 2 rerolling 1s, still wounding on 3s with most of their shots, and then getting past a couple of different saves. But the key would be that the one without the strat would hit on 4s rather than 5s, and weight of fire could put down the hemlock since S7 and S10 are the same to T6. The main advantage the Neutron has is deleting the hemlock’s save, but with only D3 shots you’re looking at a real possibility that it rolls 1 shot and then never makes it to the save anyway, since 1s and 2s can trip it up even with the canticle.

Thanks for the input guys. I've been doing some research into my tournament I'm going to and to give you an idea of what I'm dealing with some crazy SOB is actually running a warhound Titan as his list. What's worse, he may not do too bad because a lot of the lists on the roster are not just running one knight, but at least 3.

The Dragoons are fun, but I've found they bleed points like crazy for ITC and were starting to feel like a liability. They did a great distraction job because they felt like pts pinatas. In non ITC, absolutely I'm going to keep using them (thanks magnets) but due to the weird meta I find the upcoming event having lastriders just feel like a better option. I only own 4 at the moment so it's definitely one or the other. If I owned say 8 I could easily see using 4 and 4.

I will also echo you need at least 6 arquebuses to do much consistently. Anything less and they're underwhelming. I'm working on building more, currently I own 5 and plan on building more from the crew of my Scorpius. I'd like to try a game where I run around 10 and see how they do. At a certain point they kind of go from a support sniper unit to an all-around fire support element that can hurt pretty much whatever it can see. En masse they'd be pretty scary, although you will run into diminishing returns as you run out of good sniper spots.

Everyone who plays me takes Gang Busters. Everything in my list just about gives it up, so I embrace it.

I could go the opposite extreme and swap 4x Dakkabots for 3x Crawlers and 1x Grator, but I think I need the alpha striking power of Dakkabots or else I will eventually get swamped by armies like GSC, Orks, or Nids.

Anyhow, it's definitely true that these models are not cheap. That is probably the only barrier to adoption. If they were Scout Sentinel priced, we would see more of them on the table. Hell, Outrider may be a thing.

The bigger things holding back Outrider more than price are probably the low CP gain and the fact that both our two FA options really don’t wanna be split if they want to be offensively optimal, since they both want their respective +2 to hit strategems used on a blob. If the new tank had been FA it would’ve been perfect. Now I just hope we get 30k unit rules before 9th edition.

VladimirHerzog wrote:

Octovol wrote:
Magnetized my first skorpius

https://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-115163-61446_Skorpius%20Magnetization.html

im glad that its quite easy to magnetize. I just wish that they turrets were compatible out of the box, as it is , i cant mount stubbers on the disintegrator turret and vice versa. I had to put some styrene rods to extend the connectors on the stubber, it works but i feel like they might break off eventually.

The hull was the easiest part, it is that turret that's a pain. That's why I ended up going with the double side-sponson approach because I hated the stick-man-arm hardpoints. Also left off the 90s bull bars on the 40s hovercraft, they dont really add anything flavour or structure wise imo, just look odd.

You could get away with bracing the main gun turret on the inside and using the servitor for the twin cognis stubber 'turret' as they directly connect to the servitor whereas the main gun turret everything attaches to the outer armour. But it might look a bit odd being empty.

Octovol wrote:

VladimirHerzog wrote:

Octovol wrote:
Magnetized my first skorpius

https://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-115163-61446_Skorpius%20Magnetization.html

im glad that its quite easy to magnetize. I just wish that they turrets were compatible out of the box, as it is , i cant mount stubbers on the disintegrator turret and vice versa. I had to put some styrene rods to extend the connectors on the stubber, it works but i feel like they might break off eventually.

The hull was the easiest part, it is that turret that's a pain. That's why I ended up going with the double side-sponson approach because I hated the stick-man-arm hardpoints. Also left off the 90s bull bars on the 40s hovercraft, they dont really add anything flavour or structure wise imo, just look odd.

You could get away with bracing the main gun turret on the inside and using the servitor for the twin cognis stubber 'turret' as they directly connect to the servitor whereas the main gun turret everything attaches to the outer armour. But it might look a bit odd being empty.

Very nice conversion work and great pointers on the "double side-sponson".

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Thanks for the input guys. I've been doing some research into my tournament I'm going to and to give you an idea of what I'm dealing with some crazy SOB is actually running a warhound Titan as his list. What's worse, he may not do too bad because a lot of the lists on the roster are not just running one knight, but at least 3.

The Dragoons are fun, but I've found they bleed points like crazy for ITC and were starting to feel like a liability. They did a great distraction job because they felt like pts pinatas. In non ITC, absolutely I'm going to keep using them (thanks magnets) but due to the weird meta I find the upcoming event having lastriders just feel like a better option. I only own 4 at the moment so it's definitely one or the other. If I owned say 8 I could easily see using 4 and 4.

I will also echo you need at least 6 arquebuses to do much consistently. Anything less and they're underwhelming. I'm working on building more, currently I own 5 and plan on building more from the crew of my Scorpius. I'd like to try a game where I run around 10 and see how they do. At a certain point they kind of go from a support sniper unit to an all-around fire support element that can hurt pretty much whatever it can see. En masse they'd be pretty scary, although you will run into diminishing returns as you run out of good sniper spots.

Like, well it will be good time for any tau player there. Victory by turn 3 most of the time. War hound(and any titan except Taunar)is crap in normal 40k, and knights are dream targets for Tau.

Wer Arena eldar, we will give points. Key is to assure that we gain some in return, preferably more than we give up.

6 is sweat spot for me, and while they don't put much daka, they still pack a punch so not completely wasted against bikes or light vehicles.

Options options options.

Taking icarus you limit your your list for me . It is a superb platform but its not good as it should be for me.

Fist cause in order to be effective it must target Fly units or have Cawl to be effective vs horde units???

While i know you might not like it a group of 4 balistarii can be an extreme performance unit. For antitank and anti - hit units with that extreme cp usage. SO when i want to go stygies mixed batt etc i definetly want balistarii but i wont use them with out stygies. And mos tlikely when i dont take Mars.

SO its balistariii Stygies that i want to use not Balistarii. IF you take Mars id go for breachers. or the new tank that i dont mention caus eits stupid to go buy 6x new tanks to try them out i got zero of it. I wont follow Gw in that price hf situation. For plastic models 75 cup of beer are even a big number. I respect my money and i work for a living i wont go into drug lvl hobby sorry.

 Yoda79 wrote:
Options options options.

Taking icarus you limit your your list for me . It is a superb platform but its not good as it should be for me.

Fist cause in order to be effective it must target Fly units or have Cawl to be effective vs horde units???

While i know you might not like it a group of 4 balistarii can be an extreme performance unit. For antitank and anti - hit units with that extreme cp usage. SO when i want to go stygies mixed batt etc i definetly want balistarii but i wont use them with out stygies. And mos tlikely when i dont take Mars.

SO its balistariii Stygies that i want to use not Balistarii. IF you take Mars id go for breachers. or the new tank that i dont mention caus eits stupid to go buy 6x new tanks to try them out i got zero of it. I wont follow Gw in that price hf situation. For plastic models 75 cup of beer are even a big number. I respect my money and i work for a living i wont go into drug lvl hobby sorry.

I will always take 2x icarus arrays before taking my first ballistarii. even when hitting on 4+ 13 shots is good enough to deal with hordes. If i NEED to get rid of something, ill use the +2 strat on a crawler. You need about 2.5 ballistarii to get about the same firepower as 1 icarus array.

The icarus having mulitple profiles measn you can also quite effectively splitfire if needed.

The dunecrawler is a sturdier platform than the ironstrider.

I love ballistarii because of the mobility they give me, but if i need heavy firepower, i'd much rather have a dunecrawler.

I'm a kataphron destroyer lover, i use them on turn 1 as a nuke, expecting them to die pretty soon, then my hard to kill crawlers finish the game for me.

VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Yoda79 wrote:
Options options options.

Taking icarus you limit your your list for me . It is a superb platform but its not good as it should be for me.

Fist cause in order to be effective it must target Fly units or have Cawl to be effective vs horde units???

While i know you might not like it a group of 4 balistarii can be an extreme performance unit. For antitank and anti - hit units with that extreme cp usage. SO when i want to go stygies mixed batt etc i definetly want balistarii but i wont use them with out stygies. And mos tlikely when i dont take Mars.

SO its balistariii Stygies that i want to use not Balistarii. IF you take Mars id go for breachers. or the new tank that i dont mention caus eits stupid to go buy 6x new tanks to try them out i got zero of it. I wont follow Gw in that price hf situation. For plastic models 75 cup of beer are even a big number. I respect my money and i work for a living i wont go into drug lvl hobby sorry.

I will always take 2x icarus arrays before taking my first ballistarii. even when hitting on 4+ 13 shots is good enough to deal with hordes. If i NEED to get rid of something, ill use the +2 strat on a crawler. You need about 2.5 ballistarii to get about the same firepower as 1 icarus array.

The icarus having mulitple profiles measn you can also quite effectively splitfire if needed.

The dunecrawler is a sturdier platform than the ironstrider.

I love ballistarii because of the mobility they give me, but if i need heavy firepower, i'd much rather have a dunecrawler.

I'm a kataphron destroyer lover, i use them on turn 1 as a nuke, expecting them to die pretty soon, then my hard to kill crawlers finish the game for me.

The Icarus Array is a single weapon, that can't be split fired.

@Octovol
I am probably going to do the same thing and magnetize the option for a second stubber. The hatches are definitely a lost cause. And the servitor pretty much has to go into the tank turret.

@Pomguo
I meant running 4x Dragoons, 4x Auto-Striders, 4x Las-Striders or something crazy like that. Chicken walkers could be the firebase for a list if they weren't so insanely expensive.

@VladimirHerzog
While I agree that Crawlers are very durable and efficient, Las-Striders have two distinct advantages aside from the mobility:
1) Can hit -2 to hit no problem.
2) Can threaten T8 enemies.

@dadamowsky
You know. I totally just realized that I have been playing that wrong. Icarus Array is indeed one weapon.

 Suzuteo wrote:
@Octovol
I am probably going to do the same thing and magnetize the option for a second stubber. The hatches are definitely a lost cause. And the servitor pretty much has to go into the tank turret.

@Pomguo
I meant running 4x Dragoons, 4x Auto-Striders, 4x Las-Striders or something crazy like that. Chicken walkers could be the firebase for a list if they weren't so insanely expensive.

@VladimirHerzog
While I agree that Crawlers are very durable and efficient, Las-Striders have two distinct advantages aside from the mobility:
1) Can hit -2 to hit no problem.
2) Can threaten T8 enemies.

@dadamowsky
You know. I totally just realized that I have been playing that wrong. Icarus Array is indeed one weapon.

Yeah Icarus being a single weapon is why I have so many issues with it. If you could split fire absolutely it's amazing, but you HAVE to shoot everything but the stubbers at the same target. Which means that no matter the target, one of those weapons doesn't want to shoot that target. Either the missile is overkill vs lots of little stuff, or the Gatling missiles are useless against vehicles. Well, not useless, but definitely not optimal, and I find it easy to mix up the Gatling missiles and autocannon shots while rolling. I just hate GW's insistence on unique weapons that show up on only one platform and are mixed together on it. This is coincidentally why I refuse to play Primaris, the first time I used a Repulsor I'd have an aneurism

I would've much preferred something like a Hydra where you have one gun type but a lot of them, or let us take multiples of those weapons but able to concentrate them. An Onager with two twin autocannons or say 3 Gatling missile pods would be cool.

As for the striders the one thing I like is that they're one of our most reliable ranged AT options. Everything else has less range, strength, and/or shots. And unlike a neutron Onagers where it's a gamble when you doctrina it, you know exactly what you're working with with lastriders. And as opposed to Kataphrons or other plasma units, they don't kill themselves with their weapon and they have BS3 base, easily made 2+

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 Suzuteo wrote:
@Octovol
I am probably going to do the same thing and magnetize the option for a second stubber. The hatches are definitely a lost cause. And the servitor pretty much has to go into the tank turret.

@Pomguo
I meant running 4x Dragoons, 4x Auto-Striders, 4x Las-Striders or something crazy like that. Chicken walkers could be the firebase for a list if they weren't so insanely expensive.

@VladimirHerzog
While I agree that Crawlers are very durable and efficient, Las-Striders have two distinct advantages aside from the mobility:
1) Can hit -2 to hit no problem.
2) Can threaten T8 enemies.

@dadamowsky
You know. I totally just realized that I have been playing that wrong. Icarus Array is indeed one weapon.

Yeah Icarus being a single weapon is why I have so many issues with it. If you could split fire absolutely it's amazing, but you HAVE to shoot everything but the stubbers at the same target. Which means that no matter the target, one of those weapons doesn't want to shoot that target. Either the missile is overkill vs lots of little stuff, or the Gatling missiles are useless against vehicles. Well, not useless, but definitely not optimal, and I find it easy to mix up the Gatling missiles and autocannon shots while rolling. I just hate GW's insistence on unique weapons that show up on only one platform and are mixed together on it. This is coincidentally why I refuse to play Primaris, the first time I used a Repulsor I'd have an aneurism

I would've much preferred something like a Hydra where you have one gun type but a lot of them, or let us take multiples of those weapons but able to concentrate them. An Onager with two twin autocannons or say 3 Gatling missile pods would be cool.

As for the striders the one thing I like is that they're one of our most reliable ranged AT options. Everything else has less range, strength, and/or shots. And unlike a neutron Onagers where it's a gamble when you doctrina it, you know exactly what you're working with with lastriders. And as opposed to Kataphrons or other plasma units, they don't kill themselves with their weapon and they have BS3 base, easily made 2+

Isnt it a weaponsystem with different weapons so you should be able to splitfire it?

 0XFallen wrote:


Isnt it a weaponsystem with different weapons so you should be able to splitfire it?

Take a look at the codex - it is worded and described as a single weapon consisting of different profiles. You can fire all the profiles in the same turn of shooting, but weapons - by the general rule - have to be declared into a single target.

Hmm, not being able to splitfire it sure makes it worse.

@Suzuteo, im curious as to why you feel like lasstriders can deal with -2 to hit easier than a crawler?

They can make a unit, that can all be affected by the +2 hit strat.