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puzzledust wrote: For what it's wort (which is $0 USD), I'm middle-aged but I love the Primaris stuff. I haven't played much 40k but have followed it for decades and I think the Primaris Marines make the old marines look silly in comparison. Honestly, it was one of the main reasons I started building a 40k army again and I'll be glad when Old Marines are gone. Primaris look how Marines were always supposed to look....cool. Not cartoon caricatures. I may be in the minority but I'm so glad GW did this.
You are not in the minority. This is how anyone who aren't looking the marines through nostalgia goggles so thinck that they could be used to measure unit coherency feel. The primaris design is clearly superior.
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AngryAngel80 wrote: That's all very cool, glad you enjoy it. I just can't get why people are so hell bent on seeing models some do love tossed away so. Does the fact the old marines yet remain somehow bring you down ? I find that so funny a concept. That someone can't be happy with what they have, until what came before is gone.
I do not particularly want them gone, but they will be. And I just feel that Dakka denial brigade fosters a bit unhealthy attitude.
Except why is a primaris marine still way too short compaired to guardsmen?
Also why is your tac marine on a 25 mm base it should be on a 32mm.
Untrue their height in comparison to a scion is correct. If the scion is 6' the marine is roughly 7'4"
puzzledust wrote: For what it's wort (which is $0 USD), I'm middle-aged but I love the Primaris stuff. I haven't played much 40k but have followed it for decades and I think the Primaris Marines make the old marines look silly in comparison. Honestly, it was one of the main reasons I started building a 40k army again and I'll be glad when Old Marines are gone. Primaris look how Marines were always supposed to look....cool. Not cartoon caricatures. I may be in the minority but I'm so glad GW did this.
You are not in the minority. This is how anyone who aren't looking the marines through nostalgia goggles so thinck that they could be used to measure unit coherency feel. The primaris design is clearly superior.
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AngryAngel80 wrote: That's all very cool, glad you enjoy it. I just can't get why people are so hell bent on seeing models some do love tossed away so. Does the fact the old marines yet remain somehow bring you down ? I find that so funny a concept. That someone can't be happy with what they have, until what came before is gone.
I do not particularly want them gone, but they will be. And I just feel that Dakka denial brigade fosters a bit unhealthy attitude.
Except why is a primaris marine still way too short compaired to guardsmen?
Also why is your tac marine on a 25 mm base it should be on a 32mm.
Untrue their height in comparison to a scion is correct. If the scion is 6' the marine is roughly 7'4"
Marines are 8'+ Armoured.
They should be around 7ft. From the iconic drawing by Jes Goodwin.
The top may say 8 but the bottom says 1. 8-1=7. Count the squares. The picture is 7 squares high. This misreading I believe has caused so many internet misinterpretations.
Personally I prefer if they were only 7ft. IRL 7ft is huge. Size doesn't need to be overdone.
Insectum7 wrote: I haven't. Because I don't like it. I've played against them a number of times though, and seen them in person. I like their commander model, but mostly because I want to use it as an Inquisitor Lord in 2nd. Ed.
I'd rather (and have) buy more Tacticals.
Which honestly demonstrates your inability to let go of the past. They're a dated kit and dated model. Even look at something as simple as the newer Rubric Marines.
My army is drawn from 25 years of consistent styling and scaling
...demonstrating EXACTLY what I just said. You won't let go of your whole "true marine" army idea you got going on in your head, which was demonstratingly wrong, by the way.
Or perhaps I prefer Real Marines who can take anti-tank weapons to tank battles, rather than Starcraft Marines who'se solution is to shoot more anti-personnel rifles at armor, alongside their Firebats, I mean Agressors.
Imperial Guard Infantry Squads have more anti tank firepower than Intercessors. It's shameful.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/28 02:58:09
puzzledust wrote: For what it's wort (which is $0 USD), I'm middle-aged but I love the Primaris stuff. I haven't played much 40k but have followed it for decades and I think the Primaris Marines make the old marines look silly in comparison. Honestly, it was one of the main reasons I started building a 40k army again and I'll be glad when Old Marines are gone. Primaris look how Marines were always supposed to look....cool. Not cartoon caricatures. I may be in the minority but I'm so glad GW did this.
You are not in the minority. This is how anyone who aren't looking the marines through nostalgia goggles so thinck that they could be used to measure unit coherency feel. The primaris design is clearly superior.
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AngryAngel80 wrote: That's all very cool, glad you enjoy it. I just can't get why people are so hell bent on seeing models some do love tossed away so. Does the fact the old marines yet remain somehow bring you down ? I find that so funny a concept. That someone can't be happy with what they have, until what came before is gone.
I do not particularly want them gone, but they will be. And I just feel that Dakka denial brigade fosters a bit unhealthy attitude.
Except why is a primaris marine still way too short compaired to guardsmen?
Also why is your tac marine on a 25 mm base it should be on a 32mm.
Untrue their height in comparison to a scion is correct. If the scion is 6' the marine is roughly 7'4"
Marines are 8'+ Armoured.
They should be around 7ft. From the iconic drawing by Jes Goodwin.
The top may say 8 but the bottom says 1. 8-1=7. Count the squares. The picture is 7 squares high. This misreading I believe has caused so many internet misinterpretations.
Personally I prefer if they were only 7ft. IRL 7ft is huge. Size doesn't need to be overdone.
Except primaris are supposed to be bigger than normal marine's, at 7.4ft they arn't they are just the size they should be compaired to oversized guardsmen if they where old marines, their still not truescale primaris marines.
And one half expressing just how much they loathe and despise the other for existing. It's a pattern as old as time, and I've seen it repeat here countless times over the past 14 years.
Yes, just like I said, same o same o, SSDD, I predict we'll see a similar topic at least a bakers dozen more times while new flavor of the month issues spring up now and then to break up the tedium.
AngryAngel80 wrote: Yes, just like I said, same o same o, SSDD, I predict we'll see a similar topic at least a bakers dozen more times while new flavor of the month issues spring up now and then to break up the tedium.
I dunno, sueally the hate threads limit themselves to one thread. Primaris Marines are unique in that they've inspired like 6 threads in 3 days. the hate train is strong
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/28 06:17:55
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
I prefer the style of Old Marines. I don't, and won't purchase any new Primaris Models [Vote with your Wallet and all] and if Old marines get phased out I will continue playing other non space marine armies instead.
You're all welcome to like Primaris more - I do wish the more spiteful admist you would stop wishing for Old Marines to be squatted, that's just rather petty. As most posters have noticed GW can continue to support both ranges as long as their are sales to be made, and frankly I'd rather see less imperial Releases at all, and more Xenos ones, rather than the current
'Look we're re-doing our 100+ Kit old marine range! That's 100 new Primaris Kits before you'll see Plastic Aspect Warriors! Enjoy!'
AngryAngel80 wrote: That's all very cool, glad you enjoy it. I just can't get why people are so hell bent on seeing models some do love tossed away so. Does the fact the old marines yet remain somehow bring you down ? I find that so funny a concept. That someone can't be happy with what they have, until what came before is gone.
I do not particularly want them gone, but they will be. And I just feel that Dakka denial brigade fosters a bit unhealthy attitude.
Except why is a primaris marine still way too short compaired to guardsmen?
Also why is your tac marine on a 25 mm base it should be on a 32mm.
And why is it a crappy 2 part paint starter set marine and not a multi-part tactical? I’ve noticed the classic marine hating Primaris fans often do this with pictorial comparisons of Intercessors and Tactical marines, use a poorly painted two part paint set or black reach marine in a failed attempt to add weight to their argument
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/08/28 07:00:03
AngryAngel80 wrote: Yes, just like I said, same o same o, SSDD, I predict we'll see a similar topic at least a bakers dozen more times while new flavor of the month issues spring up now and then to break up the tedium.
Yeah. The repetition is gone past the point of tedium. At this stage, I may actually have to stop visiting Dakka while I'm at work and do some actual work instead!
Hecube wrote: I kinda feel like there's two conversations going on and they're both missing each other, hence some of the aggro that happens. I'm not at all aggro so i hope my perspective is helpful and productive.
A lot of the pro primaris arguments i see are to do with their proportions and how their design is just 'better'. Now, i hope i'm not making assumptions about peoples backgrounds (although i kind of am) but i sort of feel this position implies a technical interest in the design, in the sense that this is a critical assessment of the primaris range. As in, they are better designed models from a technical standpoint.
Which is fair enough, but here's my perspective though - I don't care about their proportions. At all. Has no interest to me and to be honest i sometimes don't even really know what you guys are referring to.
This is exactly how I feel as well. People keep talking about proportions like it is some sort of trump card, but the proportions are meaningless when you don’t like the aesthetic. Totally meaningless.
No amount of claims about proportions and nostalgia are going to change aesthetic dislike.
This is exactly how I feel as well. People keep talking about proportions like it is some sort of trump card, but the proportions are meaningless when you don’t like the aesthetic. Totally meaningless.
No amount of claims about proportions and nostalgia are going to change aesthetic dislike.
Indeed. After all, if proportions were all that mattered, disgruntled Marine players could have made the jump to Eldar ages ago They were always much less bowlegged and big-headed, after all.
As an aside, I think I finally realized one major thing that annoys me about the Repulsor, and it's not the obvious things. It's the lack of fire arcs. Its weapons are perfectly sensibly spaced around the thing for the most part, but since there's no vehicle facing rules or fire arcs anymore, it can fire all of them at once at any target, which highlights the abstraction of the ruleset in a way that I find unsatisfying aesthetically, if that makes sense applied to incorporeal game rules. I'd feel just as peeved if they released the Malcador Defender today (as it is, I've owned one of those for around a decade now so it gets "grandfathered" in my esteem). Plus I think I just prefer it when vehicles only have 1-2 different weapon profiles on them, maybe a pintle mounted MG thrown on top of that. I have a similar quibble with the Onager's anti-air Swiss army knife array.
I still use RT era marines and Primaris in the same army.
Marines are not all the same size.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
AngryAngel80 wrote: That's all very cool, glad you enjoy it. I just can't get why people are so hell bent on seeing models some do love tossed away so. Does the fact the old marines yet remain somehow bring you down ? I find that so funny a concept. That someone can't be happy with what they have, until what came before is gone.
I do not particularly want them gone, but they will be. And I just feel that Dakka denial brigade fosters a bit unhealthy attitude.
Except why is a primaris marine still way too short compaired to guardsmen?
Also why is your tac marine on a 25 mm base it should be on a 32mm.
And why is it a crappy 2 part paint starter set marine and not a multi-part tactical? I’ve noticed the classic marine hating Primaris fans often do this with pictorial comparisons of Intercessors and Tactical marines, use a poorly painted two part paint set or black reach marine in a failed attempt to add weight to their argument
In fairness mind you the ETB comparison is pretty stark, still the comparison isn't MUCH better when you compare even the latest model of old marine to a primaris. I've got some MK3 marines painted up as space wolves, and it just so happens they've been placed beside some of my newest painted primaris and even an ETB has a lot more solid detail. part of that mind you is just the larger surface area to work with
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
AngryAngel80 wrote: Yes, just like I said, same o same o, SSDD, I predict we'll see a similar topic at least a bakers dozen more times while new flavor of the month issues spring up now and then to break up the tedium.
Yeah. The repetition is gone past the point of tedium. At this stage, I may actually have to stop visiting Dakka while I'm at work and do some actual work instead!
Woah, lets not take drastic measures here, I'd hate to imagine you didn't waste work time with us.
The latest classic marine models are far superior to that paint set DA model. Its a very basic mini for paint practice.
Primaris have more detail in general yes (compared to say a tactical marine), but they are bigger models and the design studio may have felt they needed it. That isn't necessarily a good thing. The actual quality of the surface detail on primaris is no better than any GW kit released in the last 8 years or so.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/28 09:52:26
robbienw wrote: You appear to be confusing your opinion with fact again Crimson.
I'd much rather have the tactical marine than fat legs to the left
Have to say actually from that picture, the surface detailing on the tac marine actually looks sharper than the Intercessor.
To me one just looks like a needlessly bigger version of the other.
I certainly can't see any vast improvements in mould technology or anything here.
I also don't want my models to be different sizes and get bigger. That just means I need even more carry cases as slots that hold Imperial Guard will hold "Oldmarines" but won't hold Primaris, meaning I need whole need transportation items for larger models. The perportions are never going to be correct - Realism is silly in 40k. I want my wargame to be functional, thanks.
Can we at least acknowledge that if Oldmarines do get their rules removed, hypothetically, it would create an awkward situation in which player will want to use their Minimarine as Intercessors/Hellblasters.
There are heaps of OOP models that are WAY smaller than their current Plastic counterparts and GW stance has always been that those OOP models are still legal for use. Greater Daemons, Necron Wraiths, etc In fact, it isn't even unprecedented for an OOP model whose unti type no longer exists to be fair game as something new. Necron Pariahs are no longer a valid unit, yet their models are generally acceptable as either Lychguard or Crypteks.
Giving this long established premise, if Oldmarines rules are on the chopping block, that does not mean Minimarine models are going to stop existing and players WILL find way to use them. As much as I would normally enjoy and encourage this kind of ingenuity, I feel it would create a few instances of aggravated butt-hurt from players on either side.
As a side note, I'm actually starting to think it might be cool if MOST Oldmarines stayed around, like Devs, AMs, Vets, etc, but units like Tacticals got phased out. Basically the non-Primaris Marines eventually occupy Specialist roles, while the rank-n-file Marines all get upgraded to Primaris.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/28 13:29:25
Insectum7 wrote: I haven't. Because I don't like it. I've played against them a number of times though, and seen them in person. I like their commander model, but mostly because I want to use it as an Inquisitor Lord in 2nd. Ed.
I'd rather (and have) buy more Tacticals.
Which honestly demonstrates your inability to let go of the past. They're a dated kit and dated model. Even look at something as simple as the newer Rubric Marines.
My army is drawn from 25 years of consistent styling and scaling
...demonstrating EXACTLY what I just said. You won't let go of your whole "true marine" army idea you got going on in your head, which was demonstratingly wrong, by the way.
Or perhaps I prefer Real Marines who can take anti-tank weapons to tank battles, rather than Starcraft Marines who'se solution is to shoot more anti-personnel rifles at armor, alongside their Firebats, I mean Agressors.
Imperial Guard Infantry Squads have more anti tank firepower than Intercessors. It's shameful.
Just because the anti tank gun exists ss a choice doesn't mean it's close to good as a choice. You'd need to be able to double down on the flexible weapons like the Grav Cannon and ML (as bad as it is). TECHNICALLY, in your definition from earlier, the only units that can be real Marines then are Sterngaurd and Devastators. Neat, huh?
Thanks for playing.
Also Starcraft? They look literally nothing like the Starcraft units, REALLY showing your ignorance in design (ironic since you say you work in design) and the inability to accept a minor change. That's actually kinda fascinating.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Galef wrote: Can we at least acknowledge that if Oldmarines do get their rules removed, hypothetically, it would create an awkward situation in which player will want to use their Minimarine as Intercessors/Hellblasters.
How would that be awkward? That's what usually happens with the model updates. The awkward thing is the unusual way this is handled where both new and old versions exist as separate fluff and rule entities. The only problem with using old marines with the primaris rules would be that not all models have clear equivalents, though that issue is lessened when new primaris units get released.
Galef wrote: Can we at least acknowledge that if Oldmarines do get their rules removed, hypothetically, it would create an awkward situation in which player will want to use their Minimarine as Intercessors/Hellblasters.
There are heaps of OOP models that are WAY smaller than their current Plastic counterparts and GW stance has always been that those OOP models are still legal for use. Greater Daemons, Necron Wraiths, etc
In fact, it isn't even unprecedented for an OOP model whose unti type no longer exists to be fair game as something new. Necron Pariahs are no longer a valid unit, yet their models are generally acceptable as either Lychguard or Crypteks.
Giving this long established premise, if Oldmarines rules are on the chopping block, that does not mean Minimarine models are going to stop existing and players WILL find way to use them.
As much as I would normally enjoy and encourage this kind of ingenuity, I feel it would create a few instances of aggravated butt-hurt from players on either side.
As a side note, I'm actually starting to think it might be cool if MOST Oldmarines stayed around, like Devs, AMs, Vets, etc, but units like Tacticals got phased out. Basically the non-Primaris Marines eventually occupy Specialist roles, while the rank-n-file Marines all get upgraded to Primaris.
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I mean, I've got a hard-on for Mk3, so I'm using Boarding Shields to give them that second wound basically. Everyone seems good with it as long as they're slightly raised more on their base.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Galef wrote: Can we at least acknowledge that if Oldmarines do get their rules removed, hypothetically, it would create an awkward situation in which player will want to use their Minimarine as Intercessors/Hellblasters.
How would that be awkward? That's what usually happens with the model updates. The awkward thing is the unusual way this is handled where both new and old versions exist as separate fluff and rule entities. The only problem with using old marines with the primaris rules would be that not all models have clear equivalents, though that issue is lessened when new primaris units get released.
That's fair. I certainly agree it would have been "cleaner" if units like Intercessors were just the replacement for Tacticals and all basic marines started 8E with 2W. I was just saying that GW now has a situation in which if they did drop units like Tacticals outright, it may cause arguments if players want to use their old Tacticals as Intercessors. You can argue that, unlike using OOP versions on some models, Tacticals were never Intercessors. But I suspect that's what GW wants: the players to be force to buy new kits
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/28 14:09:27
I don't want to see classic Marines disappear anytime soon, but I definitely don't want to see any new kits for them.
Thy don't need anything at all, and any new re-makes of old models are not necessary.
If people really want Terminators get a box of the SM Heroes series 2.
Crimson wrote: Frankly, people who would have a problem with old marines being used as primaris in such a situation would be dicks.
40k is a visual game, it's why we don't play with paper tokens. I make the effort to have a painted army and use the correct models so my opponent and myself get the pleasure of playing with and against them.
I expect the same in return from my opponent. I love a good conversion but I don't appreciate lazy proxies.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/28 14:25:27
I don't know. My recently purchased "mini" tigarius just got squatted without so much as a kiss goodnight by GW. The same is going to happen to a swath of characters as the space marine splat books come out.
I enjoy the look of the new marines better. I like painting the new marines better but I have thousands of points and lots of hours in the little guys and would be in my feelings if they were removed from the game.
I could see in a few years the little dudes being moved into 30k or GW advancing the story of 40k into 50k where 50k is only primaris and you get a specialist 40k game to use your old toys (and have a little pity party). Great excuse to release/sell new models for the other armies and squat all of their existing metal/resin models (mo' money, mo' money, mo' money...)
