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Salt donkey wrote:
IMO Warp Rift got buffed in the FAQ,because now people won't be tempted to waste 2 CP using it and won't see it as a real stratagem when choosing between infernal and Iconoclast. The real importation part of FAQ was clarifying that you can indeed give 2 Dreadblades knights pacts and damnation's by using the relic. Very helpful since I have a tournament this weekend.

As far as forgeworld knights my favorite big knight is the Castigator. For 430 points you get a knight who gets 8 less shots then a double avenger knight, but also moves 14 inches, has 3 more wounds, and has a CC weapon that will actually be better than feet in many situations (Not all but many). Very good deal and a knight that I will be eager to try.

For only a few points more (though with Knights. That’s still a hefty premium) Double Lightning War Dogs do a lot of dakka!

Double lightning lock wardogs could be a good way to not need to rely on a double gatling knight. Could use the knight for other loadouts.

Yup.

It will of course come down to personal preference, and your local scene.

But the Moirax are defo something all players should consider.

Anyone know how to get chaos Knights working on battle scribe? I keep trying to do a list on there but it won't let me add any units??

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Anyone know how to get chaos Knights working on battle scribe? I keep trying to do a list on there but it won't let me add any units??

Assuming you have the updated data file, you need to make sure you choose the right detachment such as super heavy or super heavy aux

I've just checked and its working fine for me, I have V1.3.15 data file for 40k

I've been looking at tournament placing IK lists and test Chaos Knights list. One of the things that caught my eye is that IK players running triple Knights frequently, if not always run a Castellan/Valiant, while Chaos players seem to be shying away from Tyrants in draft lists.

Anyone have any thoughts as to why this might be the case? Is it that IK players can't break the habit? Is it just that Chaos players are hipster-avoiding the flavour of the month (despite its nerfs)? Or is it that the Chaos version lacks the necessary strategems (or unit synergies) to make them work?

Any insights here would be helpful.

 TonyH122 wrote:
I've been looking at tournament placing IK lists and test Chaos Knights list. One of the things that caught my eye is that IK players running triple Knights frequently, if not always run a Castellan/Valiant, while Chaos players seem to be shying away from Tyrants in draft lists.

Anyone have any thoughts as to why this might be the case? Is it that IK players can't break the habit? Is it just that Chaos players are hipster-avoiding the flavour of the month (despite its nerfs)? Or is it that the Chaos version lacks the necessary strategems (or unit synergies) to make them work?

Any insights here would be helpful.

Its still very early in play testing. Trying out other things before using a tyrant?

seems like a god setup is 3 Ik's iconoclasts, 2 shooty (double gatling) and 1 melee, Geoof Robinson (RIP cool man) was testing that configuration.

 TonyH122 wrote:
I've been looking at tournament placing IK lists and test Chaos Knights list. One of the things that caught my eye is that IK players running triple Knights frequently, if not always run a Castellan/Valiant, while Chaos players seem to be shying away from Tyrants in draft lists.

Anyone have any thoughts as to why this might be the case? Is it that IK players can't break the habit? Is it just that Chaos players are hipster-avoiding the flavour of the month (despite its nerfs)? Or is it that the Chaos version lacks the necessary strategems (or unit synergies) to make them work?

Any insights here would be helpful.

I think the most obvious reason is lack of the Cawls Wrath relic that makes Imperial Castellans truly deadly. Castellans seem to be falling out of favor amongst imperial players already due to the points hike and capping of invuln saves to 4,++ in addition

I would have been very interested to try out my porphoryion before it was so unjustly nerfed as a chaos knight....

 TonyH122 wrote:
I've been looking at tournament placing IK lists and test Chaos Knights list. One of the things that caught my eye is that IK players running triple Knights frequently, if not always run a Castellan/Valiant, while Chaos players seem to be shying away from Tyrants in draft lists.

Anyone have any thoughts as to why this might be the case? Is it that IK players can't break the habit? Is it just that Chaos players are hipster-avoiding the flavour of the month (despite its nerfs)? Or is it that the Chaos version lacks the necessary strategems (or unit synergies) to make them work?

Any insights here would be helpful.

Because if you want to go for the big boys, the imperials just do it better.

Rule of chaos-do NOT try to directly match imperials, you'll lose every time as the loyalist scum get much more love, thus more options and more synergy opportunities.

The way chaos wins is by doing things the imperials have no direct counterpart to.

Heafstaag wrote:
I would have been very interested to try out my porphoryion before it was so unjustly nerfed as a chaos knight....

I can see why it lost it's 2+ BS because that was too much 9f an advantage over the castellan
But everything else was just unnecessary.

look at Ik knight as melee units with added firepower, that's the way to look at them.

I am currently converting 2 wardogs to have lightning locks and claws to run with a battle cannon knight with the relic chainsword.

Seems like a good all rounder knight force to insert with my black legion. Running them as infernal so I can boost their one gun TO THE MAX.

Hello all I need help I have a knight valient does the chaos knights have a version with the same loudout so I can convert it?

ballzonya wrote:
Hello all I need help I have a knight valient does the chaos knights have a version with the same loudout so I can convert it?

Yes they have an identical version in the chaos knight codex. It is one of the two versions of the Knight Tyrant. Get some spikes stuck on it and you're golden!

Is a War Dog Moirax with twin lightning locks really better than a standard War Dog with twin autocannons?

If your intended role is anti-infantry, then absolutely. Cheaper, more shots, more AP. If you need the increased range, STR, and damage then it becomes a murkier question.

ballzonya wrote:
Hello all I need help I have a knight valient does the chaos knights have a version with the same loudout so I can convert it?

Yes and it can actually be quite beastly as infernal house. You can buff it to +1 str and damage on it's flamer for the house trait every turn at the expense of d3 mortals to yourself. In a lot of cases this will double your damage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brother Castor wrote:
Is a War Dog Moirax with twin lightning locks really better than a standard War Dog with twin autocannons?

IDK. The twin autos is actually a very powerful loadout. I do think the C beams give it a run for it's money for anti vehicle though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 blackmage wrote:
look at Ik knight as melee units with added firepower, that's the way to look at them.

Iconoclast are the melle house - infernal is more allrounder. They can buff their shooting really good but only for 1 gun. Even on a 2 gun knight though. If you have avenger and battle cannon. In lots of matchups youll only need to buff the 1 gun to get the most out of it.

Infernal without any form of easy and cheap repairs is too much of a gamble. (Even with repairs its iffy because you spend points on repair stuff which is seldomly competitive.) Thats 5 - 15 wounds per knight your giving away and the ”heal” strat is not good enough. It’s been compared to the Riptide Nova reactor but they can get away with it due to them being able to mitigate some enemy damage via drones, Knights not so much. For myself i see infernal more as a gimmic, for now at least.

X078 wrote:
Infernal without any form of easy and cheap repairs is too much of a gamble. (Even with repairs its iffy because you spend points on repair stuff which is seldomly competitive.) Thats 5 - 15 wounds per knight your giving away and the ”heal” strat is not good enough. It’s been compared to the Riptide Nova reactor but they can get away with it due to them being able to mitigate some enemy damage via drones, Knights not so much. For myself i see infernal more as a gimmic, for now at least.

Doing 1-3 wounds to yourself to deal double damage (typically this will be the result) is basically nothing. Plus if it's not important you just take the random roll and hope you get at least 1 of the two good ones and just take 1 mortal. T9 and damage boost. I think Iconoclast is great too - probably better. Though it is surely less fun. All it really does is buff melle which infernal can do as well. Consdier cawls wrath. It's got a pretty goof chance to deal 1-2 damage to yourself when you overcharge but pretty much no one didn't use it. OFC you could reroll 1's but that costs 3 cp. For the armigers it is a real gamable because they have half the wounds but take the same damage.
Typicall I will be running it with lord discordants and the like. I'm pretty sure they are going to get targeted first. Or my opponent is making a huge mistake.

Thoughts on the new castigator? Infernal on the gun looks good but the fact it can only shoot 16 shots into one target seems limiting... Not good for hard vehicle and why use infernal to buff the gun against hordes?

But take mortals every turn to improve your weapon isn't a big deal, in particular in competitive, lot of stratagem are based on iconoclast household

orkswubwub wrote:
Thoughts on the new castigator? Infernal on the gun looks good but the fact it can only shoot 16 shots into one target seems limiting... Not good for hard vehicle and why use infernal to buff the gun against hordes?

Think it's good against everything but t8 plus. Doing around 14 wounds to something t7 3+.

It's easier to get a t1 charge because of 14" movement, with full tilt and infernal you're getting 27.5" adverage threat range. And small buffs to sword aren't bad.

But you're right there's a better tool for all jobs in the codex, it's just of a bit of an all rounder.

 Brother Castor wrote:
Is a War Dog Moirax with twin lightning locks really better than a standard War Dog with twin autocannons?

As others have said, both yes and also no.

It's overall less flexible than the Autocannon. But, for anti-infantry, far more reliable, as each gun just gets 6 shots, rather than 2D3. Add in even slightly spawny rolling, and you're getting those lovely exploding 6's.

At the risk of sounding daft, I think I'd settle on which Questoris or Dominus classes I want first, then consider which War Dog sub-type would best support them. If your big boys are about smashing up tanks and assorted big stuff? Twin Lightning Lock rapidly and competently fill your anti-infantry requirement. If your big boys are more balanced in their approach? Autocannon War Dogs might prove preferential, as they can still tackle a wider selection of targets. But, having said that, the sheer volume of firepower kicked out by twin Lightning Locks should still be considered for polishing off damaged enemy armour. Sure their Damage stat is 1 - but that save modifier is mighty tempting when you only need to do three or four wounds.

All highly situational of course. If the near-ded enemy armour isn't a particular threat to your force (maybe it's a mainly anti-infantry loadout), then if there are other targets, the Moirax are still most definitely wasting their firepower.

Me? I'm going for three, as it lets me field dual Meltacannon Knights for the backbone of my force.

Overall, consider your local meta, however you prefer to game. If you see a general preference toward light-medium infantry, Twin Lightning Locks will punch well above their weight.

 blackmage wrote:
But take mortals every turn to improve your weapon isn't a big deal, in particular in competitive, lot of stratagem are based on iconoclast household

I think more often than not jsut taking 1 wound and rolling a random dice will be fine. Going to 14" or 16" move with the dreadblade trait is also really powerful. T9 is also dandy. If you really need to chose you roll a random mortal result. 2/3 of the time you take just 1 or 2 damage. Not a big deal. 3 really stings but it will probably still be worth it. need to regen? Charge a chaff unit and kill 8+ models to regen 4 wounds or so. It is totally worakable IMO. Also an infernal valliant just becomes god mode with that flamer. str 8-2 flat 3 damage 3d6 auto hits?

you guys play too much garagehammer im afraid.

Thats quite a silly comment aimed at no one i can see in this page??????

COLD CASH wrote:
Thats quite a silly comment aimed at no one i can see in this page??????

I can translate if you want:

You don't agree with me, and I'm clearly the best at 40k, so none of you are playing the game right.

 blackmage wrote:
you guys play too much garagehammer im afraid.

No dude I am playing I'm at freaking work and thinking about gaming hammer.