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Okay, hear me out:

1 Desecrator (Relic)
2 Wardogs (autocanons)

1 Despoiler x2 agc
2 Despoiler x1 thermal, x1 fist

OR

Desecrator (Relic)
2 Moirax Wardogs (1 melee, 1 LL)

1 Despoiler 2x AGC
2 Despoiler 2x Thermal Canon

Second one but go double lightning locks on both wardogs if you can find the points.

My flgs wont allow forgeworld in this tournament, otherwise i would be all over that.

Thanks for the advice though guys, its giving me a lot to think about.

Probably going to go something like

Tyrant - conflagration cannon / harpoon / 2 seigebreaker cannons / 2 seigebreaker missiles

Despoiler - 2 avenger gattling / ironstorm missile pod / melta gun / dreadblade - demonic vigor, warp fugel, defiant machine spirit

Despoiler - 2 rapid fire battle cannon / rune of nak't'graa / ironstorm missile pod / dreadblade - galvanized hull, warp fugel

Depoiler - reaper chainsword / thunderstrike gauntlet / khornate target / ironstorm missile pod / warlord : knight diablus


Puts me at exactly 2000 pts.

BAN wrote:
Second one but go double lightning locks on both wardogs if you can find the points.

I can only get dual LL if I drop 1 thermal canon. Its 1996 points currently.

Played 2 games today with my knights. 1st was vs an iron hands player, second vs a tson/tzeentch player.

I took the following base and spend cp as needed on vows as o saw fit.

Tyrant - configuration cannon/harpoon/2 seigebreaker cannons/2 missiles/ relic for 4++ save.

Despoiler - gauntlet/chainsword/warlord:+1 attack/melta gun/ironstorm missile pod

Despoiler - double gattling/melta gun/ironstorm missile pod

Despoiler - double auto battle cannon/ironstorm missile pod

Total : 2000 pts.


The iron hands game was very interesting. He had the following list.

Iron father
Techmarine w/relic stone
Techmarine
Invictus war suit w/ autocannon
Ironclad dreadnought
Redemptor dreadnought w/ gattling cannons
Dreadnaught w/las cannon/missile launcher
3x 5 tactical marines
Stormraven
2x intercepror aircraft
Predator w/ 2 las cannon and autocannon
Predaror w/ 4 las cannon
Whirlwind w/ vengence launcher

Mission was 1st mission from chapter approved 2018, the one with 5 objectives and you roll to see which is worth 2vp.

I went first and did a whole lot of nothing to him. Moved my tyrant and warlord up and grabbed center of the table, i fired my assault cannon knight at the warsuit and blew it away overkill style, and fired my battlecannon knight at the 4 las predator and dropped it to 1 wound!

He went, repaired the predaror 4 wounds, moved flyers up, and focused on my warlord killing him (took 90% of his army to do it but it died lol).

My 2nd turn i destroyed the predator that was weakened, he has moved the redemptor out of range of the techpriest with stone/iron father so i focused on that and killed that. I also killed 5 marines with the tyrant, but that damn fathers 5++ saved the other predator from feeling the harpoons wrath.

His 2nd turn he dropped the ironclad dread out of the stormraven with another 5 man, put the raven into hover mode, and fired almost everything into the tyrant, dropping it to 12 wounds. He tried to charge his ironclad into my battlecannon knight and rolled a 4, not getting the charge off! Even with cp reroll he missed the charge. I think that was a key point, that ironclad could have seriously damaged my knight going first.

My 3rd turn i got my tyrant into positon and fired again at the predator. I moved my chaincannon knight towards his stormraven in hover mode, and moved the battlecannon knignt up as well to garuntee the charge on the dreadnaught. Tyrant dropped the predator to 2 wounds, gattling dropped the stormraven to 7, and battlecannon killed the ironclad. Tyrant charged the predator and finished it off (barely), gattling charged the raven and killed it, and battlecannon charged the marines and killed them.

His turn 3 everything fell appart. The flyers he had left had to fly into a position putting them so they could only shoot the gattling knight, and he had only 1 remaining reliable source of anti tank, the dreadnaught. He fired it at the tyrant, but even with bs2 from the ironfather and rerolling 1's the tyrant ended up taking 2 wounds only! (That 4++ saved its bacon for sure).

Turn 4 i positioned the tyrant so the iron father was closest to it and fired everything at him. That 3d6 autohitting cannon is no joke! Battlecannon blew the dreadnought away (he ran out of cp so no half dmg) and we called it at that point as all he had was the whirlwind, 2 tech marines, and the 2 aircraft but no way to get past the tyrant and grab any objectives.



My other game isnt worth going over in such detail, it was over by end of t2. His list was kinda.... silly.

2 lord of change
Fateweaver

2 Deamon prince of tzeentch
Arhiman

2x Sorcerer
6x 5 man rubric squads


We played 4 pillars, he went first. He moved up, did a lot of mortal wounds but didnt kill anything. I moved up, killed fateweaver with the tyrant (that harpoon is no joke when it finally hits something!), killed his warlord (one of the lords with the impossible robe and -1 dmg trait) with my warlord (i had given it khornate relic for no invulnerable so that chicken got curb stomped really badly), and 10 rubrics.

His t2 he did more spells and shots, did a bunch of wounds but again didnt kill anything actually dead, and charged my warlord with his 2 Deamon princes. 1st one did 6 wounds thanks diabolic strength dropping my warlord to 9 wounds, but i inturrupted and used the chainsword to cut the other deamon prince to pieces. My turn tyrant walked over to other lord of change and blew it away, my warlord stayed in combat with his dp and ended up killing it in cc, my other knights just blasted rubrics away like they were nothing, and we called it because all he had left was arhiman, 3 rubrics, and 1 sorcerer. Granted 3 of my knights were dmged, tyrant was at 12, warlord at 9, and chaingun was at 16 but the battlecannon was at full health and he wasnt going to kill anything at that point.


Things i learned: being able to see what the opponent has before picking the vows for chaos knights is important. Also i dont think we really need to use many relics to be effective. Iron hands are annoying, but target priority can deal with that. As we all figured, kill things 100%, kill the easiest targets first, and hold your ground, they are beatable. I really liked the double battle cannon knight, 4d6 shots was very effective. And iconoclass's additonal attack and ap when charging was actually quite effective. I guess the only model that didnt impress me was the double gattling but then again i didnt face any hordes. I am sure he would be very effective vs orks or guard.

Nice write-up

New to IK and CK.
After reading through the posts I still haven't gotten a good idea on how to run a Tyrant. The lance/conflag comes in at 600 seems to be a good deal and would lend itself to walking up the board with support to keep pesky smash captains away.

If you *had* to run a Tyrant, how would you run him? For my context, I plan on using Morty as a guided missle and bullet sponge while I walk up the board with the Tyrant and a couple of melee wardogs.

Thanks!!!

 Brymm wrote:
New to IK and CK.
After reading through the posts I still haven't gotten a good idea on how to run a Tyrant. The lance/conflag comes in at 600 seems to be a good deal and would lend itself to walking up the board with support to keep pesky smash captains away.

If you *had* to run a Tyrant, how would you run him? For my context, I plan on using Morty as a guided missle and bullet sponge while I walk up the board with the Tyrant and a couple of melee wardogs.

Thanks!!!

Well there's two possibilities in my mind.

Make it as tough as possible by making it iconoclast, giving it Vow of Dominance, Dreadblade relic for 5++ in CC and the ignore -1 AP pact.

Or make it as mobile and killy as possible with infernal for a str 8 3dmg super flamer.

Giving him the infernal quest warlord trait will also be helpful as he can sit on an objective and be a nightmare for your opponent to remove or even contest the objective!

Going to bring this list to a 2 day/6 round tournament with ITC-setup:

SUPER HEAVY DETACHMENT (Iconoclast)

LOW: Despoiler with Thermal cannon + Thermal cannon (WARLORD)
LOW: Despoiler with Thermal cannon + Thermal cannon (dreadblade)
LOW: Despoiler with Thermal cannon + Thermal cannon (dreadblade)

SUPER HEAVY DETACHMENT (Infernal)
LOW: Knight Rampager with gauntlet and reaper chainsword and meltagun (dreadblade)
LOW: War dog moirax with lighting lock + lighting lock
LOW: War dog moirax with lighting lock + lighting lock

SPEARHEAD DETACHMENT
HQ: Renegade commander
HS: 3 Renegade heavy weapon team with 3x mortar
HS: 3 Renegade heavy weapon team with 3x mortar
HS: 3 Renegade heavy weapon team with 3x mortar

Simple but effective (I hope). Last tournament I wished I got more thermal cannons and now I'am bringing them. Knight rampager gets Slaanesh throne, infernal bonus movement, dreadblade movement bonus and warlord trait with +1 charge/advance. If functions as a rape blender bullet that probably dies but then the other knights live.

Can pick different warlord traits, relics, and dreadblade bonuses at the start of the game. Moirax wardogs can juice-up one lightning lock weapon with infernal bonus.

Never played against plaguebearer armies but I hope my rampager and tapdancing despoilers can take them down.

I like this setting because last time I've seen a lot of Astra M shooty armies (tank commanders), and in combination with diagonally or long table edge deployment I simply got shot to pieces because it took a few turns to get close to the enemy. Also ruins made it tough to move knights forward effectively. 6 thermal cannons can really do a number on them.

I used to bring one double gatling knight but I switched to thermal cannons because I always end up shooting at big targets and the thermal cannons are much cheaper for that.

Let us know how you do

shogun wrote:

Going to bring this list to a 2 day/6 round tournament with ETC-setup:

SUPER HEAVY DETACHMENT (Iconoclast)

LOW: Despoiler with Thermal cannon + Thermal cannon (WARLORD)
LOW: Despoiler with Thermal cannon + Thermal cannon (dreadblade)
LOW: Despoiler with Thermal cannon + Thermal cannon (dreadblade)

SUPER HEAVY DETACHMENT (Infernal)
LOW: Knight Rampager with gauntlet and reaper chainsword and meltagun (dreadblade)
LOW: War dog moirax with lighting lock + lighting lock
LOW: War dog moirax with lighting lock + lighting lock

SPEARHEAD DETACHMENT
HQ: Renegade commander
HS: 3 Renegade heavy weapon team with 3x mortar


Might be wrong but you cant put moirax units on ETC rules!!
HS: 3 Renegade heavy weapon team with 3x mortar
HS: 3 Renegade heavy weapon team with 3x mortar

Simple but effective (I hope). Last tournament I wished I got more thermal cannons and now I'am bringing them. Knight rampager gets Slaanesh throne, infernal bonus movement, dreadblade movement bonus and warlord trait with +1 charge/advance. If functions as a rape blender bullet that probably dies but then the other knights live.

Can pick different warlord traits, relics, and dreadblade bonuses at the start of the game. Moirax wardogs can juice-up one lightning lock weapon with infernal bonus.

Never played against plaguebearer armies but I hope my rampager and tapdancing despoilers can take them down.

I like this setting because last time I've seen a lot of Astra M shooty armies (tank commanders), and in combination with diagonally or long table edge deployment I simply got shot to pieces because it took a few turns to get close to the enemy. Also ruins made it tough to move knights forward effectively. 6 thermal cannons can really do a number on them.

I used to bring one double gatling knight but I switched to thermal cannons because I always end up shooting at big targets and the thermal cannons are much cheaper for that.

I might be wrong but you cant pick moirax for ETC !!

 Yoda79 wrote:


I might be wrong but you cant pick moirax for ETC !!

Oh sorry yeah, it is ITC setting allowing forgeworld.. (Dutch GT)

Hey guys,
Do you typically find spending command points on T Court for more warlord traits to be worth it?

All the warlord traits for Chaos are situational. I take just the one that you have to, and depending on opponent it's either the Deny or the Obsec trait.

Loyalists have the better Warlord traits, but I think Chaos has the more flexible Relics.

I'd spend on a relic, not another warlord trait.

 Brymm wrote:
Hey guys,
Do you typically find spending command points on T Court for more warlord traits to be worth it?

Depends on what you are bringing and/or what you are facing.. My fast 'get in your face' rampager get's 'eager for the kill' but he dies fast so I would rather keep my warlord in the back (double thermal cannons) with infernal quest warlord trait or knight diabolus. If I would face a 'smite' thousand sons army then I would consider the warp haunted hull. So I would most likely take 1 extra warlord trait with tyrannical court but most likely not 2. Maybe when I would face a full knight army myself I would take the 2 extra attack bonus warlord traits and infernal quest so that I would keep claiming objectives even when fighting with another knight on top of an objective.

Thanks guys.
Sorry for the newb questions but how does this work? If I am reading Traitoris Lance and Tyrannical court right, could I take a detachment of say CSM or Death Guard and select a model from that detachment to be my Warlord, then use Lance and Court to make more character/warlord/relic knights in a knight super heavy detachment?

Pretty much. Your selected Warlord (from whichever detachment) gets a warlord trait and free relic from their faction.

Any additional relics or traits are then purchased via Stratagems before the battle.

++ Super-Heavy Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Chaos Knights) [39 PL, 740pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Cerastus Knight-Castigator [23 PL, 430pts]: Castigator bolt cannon, Character (Traitoris Lance), Dreadblade, Infernal Household, Tempest warblade

War Dogs Moirax [8 PL, 155pts]
. War Dog Moirax: Infernal Household, 2x Lightning lock

War Dogs Moirax [8 PL, 155pts]
. War Dog Moirax: Infernal Household, 2x Lightning lock

++ Super-Heavy Detachment +6CP (Chaos - Chaos Knights) [75 PL, 1,251pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Knight Despoiler [25 PL, 413pts]: 1. Infernal Quest, Character (Traitoris Lance), Heavy stubber, Iconoclast Household, Ironstorm Missile Pod, Thermal cannon, Thermal cannon, Veil of Medrengard, Warlord

Knight Despoiler [25 PL, 425pts]: Dreadblade, Iconoclast Household, Ironstorm Missile Pod, Meltagun, Thermal cannon, Thermal cannon

Knight Despoiler [25 PL, 413pts]: Heavy stubber, Iconoclast Household, Ironstorm Missile Pod, Thermal cannon, Thermal cannon

++ Total: [114 PL, 1,991pts] ++

Infernal on LLs look great and str 7 dmg 3 bolt cannon is brutal. May struggle with hordes but see how it goes. Any advice/list building changes?

Hey guys!
Question: pretend I'm worried about a repulsor heavy meta. I know double thermal cannon knights are all the rage, but what about thermal cannon/RFBC infernal knights? Especially with so many Primaris and Aggressors running around? The RFBC can be bumped up to str9 2-4 damage at great range turn 1 to help pound down those t8 targets.
Is it worth the price bump?

 Brymm wrote:
Hey guys!
Question: pretend I'm worried about a repulsor heavy meta. I know double thermal cannon knights are all the rage, but what about thermal cannon/RFBC infernal knights? Especially with so many Primaris and Aggressors running around? The RFBC can be bumped up to str9 2-4 damage at great range turn 1 to help pound down those t8 targets.
Is it worth the price bump?

Thermal Cannon does, unbuffed...

7/2 shots
7/3 hits
14/9 wounds
14/9 unsaved
49/9 damage outside of Melta range, or 5.44 damage

A RFBC does, unbuffed...

7 shots
14/3 hits
7/3 wounds
14/9 unsaved
28/9 damage, or 3.11 damage

A RFBC, buffed with +1 Strength and Damage, does...

7 shots
14/3 hits
28/9 wounds
56/27 unsaved
56/9 damage, or 6.22 damage

Up to you if that's worth the price bump.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Brymm wrote:
Hey guys!
Question: pretend I'm worried about a repulsor heavy meta. I know double thermal cannon knights are all the rage, but what about thermal cannon/RFBC infernal knights? Especially with so many Primaris and Aggressors running around? The RFBC can be bumped up to str9 2-4 damage at great range turn 1 to help pound down those t8 targets.
Is it worth the price bump?

Thermal Cannon does, unbuffed...

7/2 shots
7/3 hits
14/9 wounds
14/9 unsaved
49/9 damage outside of Melta range, or 5.44 damage

A RFBC does, unbuffed...

7 shots
14/3 hits
7/3 wounds
14/9 unsaved
28/9 damage, or 3.11 damage

A RFBC, buffed with +1 Strength and Damage, does...

7 shots
14/3 hits
28/9 wounds
56/27 unsaved
56/9 damage, or 6.22 damage

Up to you if that's worth the price bump.

Yea, but buffs matter. Taking an iconoclast double Thermal cannon despoiler with reroll 1 to wound against 7+ wound targets (stratagem) and give it reroll to hit and maybe even a single reroll with the amount of shots. That single knight uses a lot of buffs but it brings a lot more pain against the big targets. I end up switching my double gatling gun despoiler with thermal cannons because I end up shooting at big targets anyway and thermal cannons are cheaper for that. Thermal cannons are better at shooting at Toughness 8 (repulsors, knights) compared to the rapid fire battle cannon, and with 12 inch movement and 36 range guns I don't see a lot of issue with range.

The buffs affect them equally, save for a CP spent rerolling number of shots.

Relative damage remains the same.

I'm looking to pick up some chaos knights in the future, and this thread has been a goldmine for useful info and knight configurations! However, I need to ask the question on allies.

While using R+H is a no brainer for being cheap, what would be useful allies both for chaos marines or demons to support a majority melee/anti tank knight configuration? I'm looking at around the 450-500pts mark to add objective securement and ranged infantry clearing.

 Dr. Mills wrote:
I'm looking to pick up some chaos knights in the future, and this thread has been a goldmine for useful info and knight configurations! However, I need to ask the question on allies.

While using R+H is a no brainer for being cheap, what would be useful allies both for chaos marines or demons to support a majority melee/anti tank knight configuration? I'm looking at around the 450-500pts mark to add objective securement and ranged infantry clearing.

If you need seriously anti horde you could take RCC havocks for the job. A lord, sorcerer, 3x5 csm and RCC havocks. Should be around 520 points?

Plan on working this list out for a bit. Anyone have experience running knights with PBCs?

Chaos knights didn't get much from CA19.

Only changes are:

Desecrators now at 372p.
Autocannon wardogs 157p.

So a detachment of two wardogs and a desecrator dropped 75 points.

All other despoler class what evers etc are still in the same points. For me, I've actually tried the desec with relic laser and two wardogs combo so that list with the csm points drops got an impact against primaris.. actually if I quickly look at this my 2k lidst got down 114 points.

I still think a focussed fire just drop knights too fast so dunno how the meta will shift. There's definately a maybe for my now 75p cheaper long-ranged support CK detachment.

Any takes on the shifting meta?

 Brymm wrote:

Spoiler:

**knightsandPBC2 (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [115 PL, 10CP, 2,000pts]
Super-Heavy Detachment +6CP (Chaos - Chaos Knights)
No Force Org Slot
Detachment CP
Lord of War
Knight Despoiler
Selections: Heavy stubber, Iconoclast Household, Ironstorm Missile Pod, Thermal cannon, Thermal cannon

Knight Despoiler
Selections: Heavy stubber, Iconoclast Household, Ironstorm Missile Pod, Thermal cannon, Thermal cannon

Knight Tyrant
Selections: 4. Warp-haunted Hull, Character (Traitoris Lance), Conflagration cannon and Thundercoil harpoon, Iconoclast Household, 2x Twin siegebreaker cannons, Two Shieldbreaker missiles, Veil of Medrengard, Warlord

Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard)
No Force Org Slot
Battle-forged CP
Detachment CP
HQ
Chaos Lord
Selections: Chainsword, Combi-bolter

Troops
Poxwalkers
Selections: 13x Poxwalker

Heavy Support
Plagueburst Crawler
Selections: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger

Plagueburst Crawler
Selections: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger

Plagueburst Crawler
Selections: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger


Created with BattleScribe

Plan on working this list out for a bit. Anyone have experience running knights with PBCs?

I've done it but I don't bother about the chaos lord for re-rolls I use a poxbringer for fleshy abundance. Its hilarious when someone works so hard to put 5 wounds on a PBC then you heal it for D3. I use them to screen for a double gatling knight though because thats my damage output and you don't need to hold to a 6" aura for rerolls. They are really just weirdly resilient mortars that piss people off. And triple PBmortars are effective at taking out thunderfire cannons and the like. Also flyers get oddly surprised by the Gatling cannon heavy flamers and the PBC spitters. Had someone try and moveblock my knight with a stormhawk and they got surprised. This list gets hard shut down by imperial fists though.

Just had a great game versus Necrons today.

He ran triple doom scythe, triple doomsday with two destroyer squads and Immotek.

I ran Tyrant with super flamer/harpoon, Veil and Vow of Dom, double battle cannon despoiler and double thermal despoiler along with a Death Guard battalion with a lord, plague caster, pox walkers and a single plague burst crawler.

I won a tight one using ITC mission 1 with Dawn of War deployment.

I lost the double RFBC bottom of 1 to some serious doom and doom shooting. Luckily I was able to control the center with tyrant, and rolls hot on the thermals. He played pretty cagey and fought for every point but turn 6 ended with just Immotek and a DDA left vs my Tyrant and Thermal Knight, with me and a 2 pt lead.

Fun times!

Rejoice!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/27/new-rules-for-chaos-knights/

Maybe we get a few toys to play with and fingers crossed our army get a boost due to 9th rules.

After seeing the leaks, I am totally stoked. Buffs with no drawbacks is the best.

I would love more strats and more relics but I’ll live.

As far as tactics, I love the new Herpetrax house. Keeping the iconoclast benefits while just getting a bonus 2w and the best Warlord trait we have access to (IMO) with no draw back. The relic is situationally amazing if you’re playing smash captains, meaning that you should be able to handle a combat against one without dying, which seems awesome.

I’m saddened that the relic conflagration cannon is on a house with fewer other useful things, especially for a Tyrant.

The custom rules are pretty neat, adding range seems awesome, as does the increase AP within 12”

Any thoughts?