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 Xenomancers wrote:
The missile is also easy. A krak missle is like 8 inches long on a tactical marine.

Like **ll it is.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
The missile is also easy. A krak missle is like 8 inches long on a tactical marine.

Like **ll it is.

The actual missle is small. It is a little longer than a marines hand in power armor. The launcher itself is large but it's also unnecessary. It is firing an rpg basically - they show you clearly the ordinance missle launhcers shoot. They are RPG's.

Sure, the munition could be that small. But but the launcher isn't unnecessary. There's a reason Marines don't just chuck Bolter shells at enemies.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
The missile is also easy. A krak missle is like 8 inches long on a tactical marine.

Like **ll it is.

The actual missle is small. It is a little longer than a marines hand in power armor. The launcher itself is large but it's also unnecessary. It is firing an rpg basically - they show you clearly the ordinance missle launhcers shoot. They are RPG's.

So if it is unnecessary, why are they lugging them around? Why not just throw he missiles at the enemy? By your logic it works just as well.

The problem with all this nonsense is that if miniaturisation of this scale is possible, why not use it elsewhere? Why doesn't every marine have pocket bolters? Why have large missile launchers?

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
The missile is also easy. A krak missle is like 8 inches long on a tactical marine.

Like **ll it is.

The actual missle is small. It is a little longer than a marines hand in power armor. The launcher itself is large but it's also unnecessary. It is firing an rpg basically - they show you clearly the ordinance missle launhcers shoot. They are RPG's.

Who knew, A Space Marine thigh is only 8 inches long. . .


. . .Not . . .

Yeah. Completely absent of any launching mechanism, those missiles will not fit on the Centurion if the marine inside has arms. I really don't understand why people try to bend over backwards to defend a blatantly stupid and ugly design.

Good grief.

I’m on my iPad, so linking pictures is too damn difficult. But if you go look at some 40k cosplay costumes (the ones who get the marines up to 8’ tall) and get a look at the superstructure, I believe that is the same methodology marines (in their tac armor) are employing the centurion suits - stilts on the feet and Waldo gloves to operate the arms (their arms aren’t by their side, they’re partly down the actual arm using actuators to control the lower arm, like sliding on a power fist).

 Stormonu wrote:
Good grief.

I’m on my iPad, so linking pictures is too damn difficult. But if you go look at some 40k cosplay costumes (the ones who get the marines up to 8’ tall) and get a look at the superstructure, I believe that is the same methodology marines (in their tac armor) are employing the centurion suits - stilts on the feet and Waldo gloves to operate the arms (their arms aren’t by their side, they’re partly down the actual arm using actuators to control the lower arm, like sliding on a power fist).

Did you read the thread before responding? It is not possible, because their arms would have to go through the bolters/missile launchers.

 Crimson wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Good grief.

I’m on my iPad, so linking pictures is too damn difficult. But if you go look at some 40k cosplay costumes (the ones who get the marines up to 8’ tall) and get a look at the superstructure, I believe that is the same methodology marines (in their tac armor) are employing the centurion suits - stilts on the feet and Waldo gloves to operate the arms (their arms aren’t by their side, they’re partly down the actual arm using actuators to control the lower arm, like sliding on a power fist).

Did you read the thread before responding? It is not possible, because their arms would have to go through the bolters/missile launchers.

I've been reading the thread and I have no idea what the hell it has to do with the topic.

You folks have lost the plot.

Lemondish wrote:

I've been reading the thread and I have no idea what the hell it has to do with the topic.

You folks have lost the plot.

That certainly is true, not that there ever was much of a topic to begin with, merely idle speculation. There were some rumours about concrete rules at some point, but those seemed suspicious.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
The missile is also easy. A krak missle is like 8 inches long on a tactical marine.

Like **ll it is.

The actual missle is small. It is a little longer than a marines hand in power armor. The launcher itself is large but it's also unnecessary. It is firing an rpg basically - they show you clearly the ordinance missle launhcers shoot. They are RPG's.

Who knew, A Space Marine thigh is only 8 inches long. . .


. . .Not . . .

That is a marinelet. They are tiny.


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 Crimson wrote:
Yeah. Completely absent of any launching mechanism, those missiles will not fit on the Centurion if the marine inside has arms. I really don't understand why people try to bend over backwards to defend a blatantly stupid and ugly design.

A rocket firing mechanism could literally take up 0 space. It could be a wire.
Its because it's really not that bad. You just don't like cents. We know the size of a krak missle - it is small. They could design even smaller missiles for cents to utilize. I like the look of cents.


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Bharring wrote:
Sure, the munition could be that small. But but the launcher isn't unnecessary. There's a reason Marines don't just chuck Bolter shells at enemies.

Large portion of the launcher is likely just to protect the marine from rocket exhaust and targeting features. It probably improves accuracy too. Needs of an operator change the design of weapons all the time.

That's like saying a large portion of the gun is unneeded; all you need is a firing pin.

Kinda sorta true, a firing pin will fire the bullet. But more as a grenade (still in your hand). And even if you had a chamber, it'd still be uselessly inaccurate.

There's more to the weapons system than the goes-boom part and the gets-thrown part.

 Xenomancers wrote:

That is a marinelet. They are tiny.

Not small enough to merit your claims.

Maybe Centurions aren't quite to proper scale then?

It seems a little odd to complain about that. Rhinos and Land Raiders are too small, terminators infamously have teir proportions wrong. even the basic space marine has proportion issues.

If Centurions have proportion issues they've got good company... pretty much the entire classic marine line. So... why we suddenly complaining?

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

That is a marinelet. They are tiny.

Not small enough to merit your claims.

Not true. He should be 7 feet tall and dwarf a human but doesn't. Stuff like that bothers me more than having to imagine a special weapon system to fit into a chest plate.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

That is a marinelet. They are tiny.

Not small enough to merit your claims.

Not true. He should be 7 feet tall and dwarf a human but doesn't. Stuff like that bothers me more than having to imagine a special weapon system to fit into a chest plate.

the entire Marine range has.... size issues. even Primaris Marines well better clearly have vehicle size issues, as I'm not sure ten Primaris could fit inside a repulsor.

Most Space Marines have been the same scale for 20+ years.

Bharring wrote:
That's like saying a large portion of the gun is unneeded; all you need is a firing pin.

Kinda sorta true, a firing pin will fire the bullet. But more as a grenade (still in your hand). And even if you had a chamber, it'd still be uselessly inaccurate.

There's more to the weapons system than the goes-boom part and the gets-thrown part.

Bolt rounds actually have a rocket motor built in. They are basically RPG's too. It just the game rules that don't play them properly. Increased barrel length give your projectile greater velocity. If your projectile has it's own rocket motor - this maters less and less.


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 Insectum7 wrote:
Most Space Marines have been the same scale for 20+ years.

Marines have always had terrible scaling. Cents at least get the sizing scale part right. They look big and impossing. They look like they have tons of firepower.

Yeah they really just need to design the Drills differently. Making them a hand instead of slung under the arm just makes more sense.


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Honestly the big guns too.

Personally I wouldn't want to go to combat if my hands were guns or drills

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Most Space Marines have been the same scale for 20+ years.

Marines have always had terrible scaling. Cents at least get the sizing scale part right. They look big and impossing. They look like they have tons of firepower.

Marines were scaled fine. And then they were kept the same scale for interchangeability and consistency within the line. Imo it was a good policy.

I'd rather my models look out of scale next to another army, than inconsistently scaled within it's own.

I'd also rather my models not look stupid, like Centurions do. And be superfluous, like Centurions are.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Bharring wrote:
That's like saying a large portion of the gun is unneeded; all you need is a firing pin.

Kinda sorta true, a firing pin will fire the bullet. But more as a grenade (still in your hand). And even if you had a chamber, it'd still be uselessly inaccurate.

There's more to the weapons system than the goes-boom part and the gets-thrown part.

Bolt rounds actually have a rocket motor built in. They are basically RPG's too. It just the game rules that don't play them properly. Increased barrel length give your projectile greater velocity. If your projectile has it's own rocket motor - this maters less and less.

I suppose barrel range might make a projectile actually go further, but the barrel range's impact on range isn't so much how far the bullet goes, but how accurate it is at that distance. Sure, it's got a rocket motor built in, but going fast doesn't help if you're going in the wrong direction...

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 Insectum7 wrote:
Most Space Marines have been the same scale for 20+ years.

Marines have always had terrible scaling. Cents at least get the sizing scale part right. They look big and impossing. They look like they have tons of firepower.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Most Space Marines have been the same scale for 20+ years.

Marines have always had terrible scaling. Cents at least get the sizing scale part right. They look big and impossing. They look like they have tons of firepower.

Marines were scaled fine. And then they were kept the same scale for interchangeability and consistency within the line. Imo it was a good policy.

I'd rather my models look out of scale next to another army, than inconsistently scaled within it's own.

I'd also rather my models not look stupid, like Centurions do. And be superfluous, like Centurions are.

(credit to the secretsquig for the image)
yeah all space Marine stuff is totally in scale and that Rhino TOTALLY holds 10 marines... ohh wait.
So no, there's a marked disconnect between vehicles and Marines at the very least.

Furthermore there's plenty of comments in the past on how terminator armor wou;dn't be something you could realsiticly wear, arm and lleg issues that sort of thing. whicha re the same complaints with centurions. folks mostly just accept it. So suddenly harping on centurions for this, when Marine vehicles have always had issues, and terminators have apparently always had some layout issues as well..

seems a bit like someone is trying the cherry pick

There's a world of difference in between the level of contortion going into Terminator Armor, and going into Centurion armor. And for the record, I'm not that fond of the current Terminator plastics either, and one of the reasons is their scale.

Also, the vehicles are well known to be out of scale. . . sort of. Details on the models, aka, the character of the sculpt is caricatured to begin with, so folding the Space Marines into place isn't quite accurate in terms of what the models are representing. 2nd, if you actually measured the dimensions of the models, even to their scale with the models, most of the tanks are freaking huge.


Furthermore, Centurions looking stupid isn't cherry picking .

 Insectum7 wrote:
There's a world of difference in between the level of contortion going into Terminator Armor, and going into Centurion armor. And for the record, I'm not that fond of the current Terminator plastics either, and one of the reasons is their scale.

Also, the vehicles are well known to be out of scale. . . sort of. Details on the models, aka, the character of the sculpt is caricatured to begin with, so folding the Space Marines into place isn't quite accurate in terms of what the models are representing. 2nd, if you actually measured the dimensions of the models, even to their scale with the models, most of the tanks are freaking huge.


Furthermore, Centurions looking stupid isn't cherry picking .

no you're allowed to say they look stupid. it's the people who claim they have no place in a marine army and marines where perfect until centurions came along that are a bit rediculas. no one likes every release.

Centurions have no place in a marine army and marines were perfect until Centurions came along.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Centurions have no place in a marine army and marines were perfect until Centurions came along.

I'm sure before cents came along there was something else people complained about. proably thunderwolves........ I got it! thats what the space marine line is missing, Centurions riding thunderwolves! (a cookie to the first person to photoshop that image up)

Bharring wrote:


I figured I'd disengage, as I didn't accept Slayer's authenticity in asking. But since you asked:
Marines being about the Codex Astartes, their core was always Tacs/Devs/ASM (ASM could be on bikes, though). They're an infantry Marine shocktroop force - not a mainline force. They're the Angels of the Emperor, not his Shield or Hammer.

Yes they were. The Imperial Fists were his shield on Terra. The Iron Warriors were the hammer he smashed countless fortress worlds with. The Dark Angels being the First Legion had to perform all the roles and had 6 wings to do it with. Cents are little different than a temporary Dreadnought armor. Dreads are part of their core too. You want to argue they suck, I'll probably agree with you. You want to argue you just don't like them, more power to you. You want to try and argue they're not supported in the fluff when nearly anything can/is supported by the fluff, you're just going to look silly. ASM were/are the pilots for most of the Astartes vehicles. The fluff used? to be that the Reserve Company ASM would pilot the vehicles for the battle companies.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:


Also Marines don't really physically fit in a pod or Rhino either.

Has anyone ever counted the number of Harness stations there are in a Pod? Never mind how many of what will physically fit, How many spots are modeled.


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Bharring wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Sooooooo the bulk of Centurions in a Pod broke immersion but Dreads somehow didn't?

I'm not buying that for a moment.

What's so strange about not buying 3 Cents in a pod, but not having a problem with 1 model that's ~10% taller and ~20% wider?

for starters claiming the model is only 10% taller and 20% wider.


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 Xenomancers wrote:
Agree with you there. Dreads are pretty small. Just painted 2 dreads up in a night. Standing next to a redemptor they are hilariously small.The drop pod to me is actually the issue. It is too small. It couldn't hold 10 tacticals ether at it's current size.

Count the harnesses.


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 Xenomancers wrote:

 amanita wrote:
Apparently one new marine ability is growing arms long enough to operate a centurion suit?

Uh because levers and such don't exist right?

You oughta see the arms of the guy running the Imperator Titan.


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 amanita wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 amanita wrote:
Apparently one new marine ability is growing arms long enough to operate a centurion suit?

I really don't think that a marine in a centurion suit can have arms at all.

assuming their power armor interfaces with the centurion frame they don't need to put their arms in. the suit could interact with the Black Carapace and essentially be piloted via MIU like a tiny titan.

Then where are the arms, exactly? Tucked behind their backs? There certainly isn't room on the side or front unless their arms are emaciated twigs. Terminators already stretch the possibility of how arms are attached to a torso, but centurions are completely ridiculous.

I think the video into of Sgt Tychus or whatever his name was from Star Craft 2 has the right idea on how Cent Armor works. Their REAL hand is in the forearm of the suit, and the Suit's hand is a prosthetic controlled by them from further inside the suit.


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Bharring wrote:
There's a reason Marines don't just chuck Bolter shells at enemies.

And a new genre of Incredible Hulk/Angry Marine fan fiction was born.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
terminators infamously have teir proportions wrong.

I'm not sure Terminators have their proportions wrong (more so than anything else in the game) so much as their proportion creates an optical illusion of the location of their head vs their shoulders.


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Bharring wrote:

I suppose barrel range might make a projectile actually go further, but the barrel range's impact on range isn't so much how far the bullet goes, but how accurate it is at that distance. Sure, it's got a rocket motor built in, but going fast doesn't help if you're going in the wrong direction...
.

Only to a certain point. You're dealing with bullet shape - Spitzer, Boat Tail, Round, etc, rifling twist - the grooves that spin the bullet like a spiraling football, and the speed leaving the barrel (which has to match the rifling twist for stable flight) as the primary affects on accuracy. The gas from combustion propels the projectile, and you need the barrel to keep the gas compressed behind the projectile else it expands in all directions and the projectile just jumps like a tiddly wink. If you toss some ammunition into an open fire it'll go off like firecrackers (eventually, if the fire is hot enough) but it won't actually "shoot" anyone through their firefighting gear - There's a video on YouTube that'll make you cry if you shoot as a hobby. The effect of a longer barrel (after that certain point) on accuracy isn't about the chemical/physical reaction at all. It's about the distance between the front sight and the rear sight. The further apart they are, the less human error can be introduced. Put the index finger of each hand up next to each other and draw a line over the top of them. The close they are the more than line covers as you shift your head just a little bit. The further apart the "thinner" that line gets.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Centurions have no place in a marine army and marines were perfect until Centurions came along.

I'm sure before cents came along there was something else people complained about. proably thunderwolves........ I got it! thats what the space marine line is missing, Centurions riding thunderwolves! (a cookie to the first person to photoshop that image up)

Hehe, I don't count Space Wolves as "Space Marines" anymore.

But yeah, Thunderwolves have no place in a Space Wolf army. . . although I wouldn't say they were "perfect" prior to Thunderwolves, exactly. Thunderwolves are pretty egregious though.

Has anyone ever counted the number of Harness stations there are in a Pod? Never mind how many of what will physically fit, How many spots are modeled.

there's ten harness stations.