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2019/08/07 18:07:44
Subject: New marine abilities
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Not Online!!! wrote:Martel732 wrote:It's not just superheavies. It's all cheap weaponry that treats marines like grots. Now, this is more sci-fi accurate, as offense usually outstrips defense. But it's not appropriate for techno-barbarism.
Why is the weaponry so cheap then? Not because the scale creept ever more upwards making the PG from once 15-20 pts now into an 11 pts gun?
I don't know. I don't write it.
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2019/08/07 18:09:42
Subject: New marine abilities
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Here's hoping Land Raiders get Assault Vehicle
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2019/08/07 18:10:58
Subject: New marine abilities
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Not sure it'll help. Didn't it say they can't charge on the same turn they disembark or did I just not retain the info?
Otherwise a Land Raider still doesn't get things into melee quickly which is what I would want
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
 jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
 vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
 MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
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2019/08/07 18:12:21
Subject: New marine abilities
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Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant
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Martel732 wrote:To be fair: a FEW are defensive. IH vehicles are gonna be a bear. BUT most marine vehicles weren't competitively priced to begin with.
I play Ultramarines regardless of top tier Chapter tactic. But Ho boy if UM don't don't have a way to compensate beyond Guilliman I'll switch
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2019/08/07 18:13:23
Subject: New marine abilities
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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It'll help position troops, which is good enough for me. The troops can still fire after disembarking, so I'm cool with that.
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2019/08/07 18:14:12
Subject: New marine abilities
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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It makes flamer aggressors not useless.
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2019/08/07 18:14:33
Subject: New marine abilities
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Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant
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Well plus they can still move when they disembark!
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2019/08/07 18:15:42
Subject: New marine abilities
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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 Insectum7 wrote:It'll help position troops, which is good enough for me. The troops can still fire after disembarking, so I'm cool with that.
That's a bit expensive to want to do that. Yeah a Rhino won't HAVE the rule but it also wouldn't cost 300 points to throw your unit to the front line.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
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2019/08/07 18:15:42
Subject: New marine abilities
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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That's why it works with 8" flamers. Notice the drawbot has a 12" flamer. GW knows. They were just holding out.
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2019/08/07 18:26:45
Subject: New marine abilities
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Wicked Warp Spider
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Not Online!!! wrote: Kaiyanwang wrote:Not Online!!! wrote:
You see, Shock assault for exemple could've been dropped with you know, giving all marines propper equipment for their generalist role (Bolter, boltpistol and chainsword)
Wouldn't have sold a new dex though because no rules change necessary
Is more of a conflict with the mold and how the models are designed in general. I cannot really be too mad at GW anymore because step by step I realized how deep the post-chapterouse-stress-disorder goes. I fear for some ork unit when resin tankbustas and kommandos will eventually go missing.
Let's be very clear about one thing:
"Piracy is not a game problem, it's a service problem"
Take the new reaper chaincannon for CSM, the only "service" i get for them is the havoc box at one a pop. That is BAD service.
I am also not willing to shell out for each CSM box 2 havoc boxes aswell f.e. so where do i go?
GW has had gak service for a long time. And it isn't like they could've just let it slide, THEY are by FAR the biggest fish in the pond of that market.
GW made people not feel guilty for piracy. But that does not mean that most of the awfulness we witness is due to chapterhouse&co. Something changed at a basic level.
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Generic characters disappearing? Elite units of your army losing options and customizations? No longer finding that motivation to convert?
Your army could suffer Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder (PCSD)! If you think that your army is suffering one or more of the aforementioned symptoms, call us at 789-666-1982 for a quick diagnosis! |
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2019/08/07 18:29:10
Subject: New marine abilities
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Kaiyanwang wrote:Not Online!!! wrote: Kaiyanwang wrote:Not Online!!! wrote:
You see, Shock assault for exemple could've been dropped with you know, giving all marines propper equipment for their generalist role (Bolter, boltpistol and chainsword)
Wouldn't have sold a new dex though because no rules change necessary
Is more of a conflict with the mold and how the models are designed in general. I cannot really be too mad at GW anymore because step by step I realized how deep the post-chapterouse-stress-disorder goes. I fear for some ork unit when resin tankbustas and kommandos will eventually go missing.
Let's be very clear about one thing:
"Piracy is not a game problem, it's a service problem"
Take the new reaper chaincannon for CSM, the only "service" i get for them is the havoc box at one a pop. That is BAD service.
I am also not willing to shell out for each CSM box 2 havoc boxes aswell f.e. so where do i go?
GW has had gak service for a long time. And it isn't like they could've just let it slide, THEY are by FAR the biggest fish in the pond of that market.
GW made people not feel guilty for piracy. But that does not mean that most of the awfulness we witness is due to chapterhouse&co. Something changed at a basic level.
Yeah, GW tries to stranglehold their market share.
But failing to realise that most 3rd parties still generated them money.
I can't really use a bunch of chaincannon standins without the propper base models now can i?
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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2019/08/07 18:32:27
Subject: New marine abilities
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Insectum7 wrote:It'll help position troops, which is good enough for me. The troops can still fire after disembarking, so I'm cool with that.
That's a bit expensive to want to do that. Yeah a Rhino won't HAVE the rule but it also wouldn't cost 300 points to throw your unit to the front line.
If I can have Land Raiders than can get troops to objectives faster, but also pull out of combat and still fire, that's just cool even if it wont see high-competitive play.
But it might, you never know. A lot is happening with this book.
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2019/08/07 18:46:18
Subject: New marine abilities
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Insectum7 wrote:Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Insectum7 wrote:It'll help position troops, which is good enough for me. The troops can still fire after disembarking, so I'm cool with that.
That's a bit expensive to want to do that. Yeah a Rhino won't HAVE the rule but it also wouldn't cost 300 points to throw your unit to the front line.
If I can have Land Raiders than can get troops to objectives faster, but also pull out of combat and still fire, that's just cool even if it wont see high-competitive play.
But it might, you never know. A lot is happening with this book.
That IS true I do agree. There is a bunch happening and we can only really speculate from the previews. I am in the same boat as you though in terms of seeing how to implement our new tools and/or rules.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
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2019/08/07 18:48:49
Subject: Re:New marine abilities
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Morphing Obliterator
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I made some ill-advised attempts at painting this as balanced.
I was wrong.
I got nothing.
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"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative." |
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2019/08/07 18:50:13
Subject: New marine abilities
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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It sure seems like a ton of rules. Eghad.
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2019/08/07 18:59:13
Subject: New marine abilities
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Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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FLG are saying that once all rules and supplaments are revealed the Iron Hands will be the strongest chapter.
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-~Ishagu~- |
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2019/08/07 19:01:17
Subject: New marine abilities
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Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers
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Is it just me or did GW basically re-write the entire rulebook for SM's? Like, this is 2-3 Chapter Approved in one day. New units, new racial abilities, new costs....how could they possibly have tested this against the Meta?
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2019/08/07 19:02:49
Subject: New marine abilities
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Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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Yeah it's a whole new book, ground up, making them incredibly powerful and re-working the faction rules.
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-~Ishagu~- |
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2019/08/07 19:02:56
Subject: New marine abilities
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:Is it just me or did GW basically re-write the entire rulebook for SM's? Like, this is 2-3 Chapter Approved in one day. New units, new racial abilities, new costs....how could they possibly have tested this against the Meta?
Playtesting from gw.
Don't be silly
Automatically Appended Next Post:  Ishagu wrote:Yeah it's a whole new book, ground up, making them incredibly powerful and re-working the faction rules.
DIY chapters, and the new and improved ones.
i admit as a chaos player i feel envy, like, why did we not get new propper traits, and then this shows up?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/07 19:03:46
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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2019/08/07 19:10:13
Subject: New marine abilities
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Morphing Obliterator
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Not Online!!! wrote:DIY chapters, and the new and improved ones.
i admit as a chaos player i feel envy, like, why did we not get new propper traits, and then this shows up?
It does admittedly look pretty bad. However, if CSM ends up with Shock Assault, enhanced Legion Tactics and (please!) some limited form of combat doctrine we shouldn't be left completely out in the cold.
Totally unrealistic hope would be that Renegade Chapters get some of the DIY love, but they are products of the second founding, so....maybe?
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"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative." |
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2019/08/07 19:11:37
Subject: New marine abilities
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Rather than making it fair, they are gonna give vanilla marines their time to push everyone around. This doesn't make up for 2 years of being poop, it just pisses off everyone else.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/07 19:11:49
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2019/08/07 19:11:54
Subject: New marine abilities
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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Why would Chaos get Doctrines when they don't follow the Codex Astartes? :O
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 warboss wrote:Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
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2019/08/07 19:12:36
Subject: New marine abilities
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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 TwinPoleTheory wrote:Not Online!!! wrote:DIY chapters, and the new and improved ones.
i admit as a chaos player i feel envy, like, why did we not get new propper traits, and then this shows up?
It does admittedly look pretty bad. However, if CSM ends up with Shock Assault, enhanced Legion Tactics and (please!) some limited form of combat doctrine we shouldn't be left completely out in the cold.
Totally unrealistic hope would be that Renegade Chapters get some of the DIY love, but they are products of the second founding, so....maybe?
Doubt it, we get confirmed Shock assault, which addmittedly is better for us then loyalists, but still, the issues with our traits were known to GW.
And they had this cooking along time imo. (or not and a intern just had a gak match that day and decided to make his SM army bonkers)
So yes, i am frankly not really liking the look of that
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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2019/08/07 19:12:51
Subject: New marine abilities
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Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant
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 Crazyterran wrote:Why would Chaos get Doctrines when they don't follow the Codex Astartes? :O
This is basically what they said about BA, SW, GK, and DW
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2019/08/07 19:13:54
Subject: New marine abilities
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Crazyterran wrote:Why would Chaos get Doctrines when they don't follow the Codex Astartes? :O
Because legions might also had doctrines?
The main reason for the split was to stop legion sized battleforces turning and their whole support infrastructure that is vastly more complex then a chapters.
Also a chapter can be in a pinch swamped to death with guardsmen (of high enough quality) a legion is a whole other issue.
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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2019/08/07 19:14:01
Subject: New marine abilities
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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BA are codex compliant, though. That's why the made us put assault marines back in fast attack.
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2019/08/07 19:14:08
Subject: New marine abilities
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Morphing Obliterator
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Crazyterran wrote:Why would Chaos get Doctrines when they don't follow the Codex Astartes? :O
Oh believe me, I'm just expecting Shock Assault and Enhanced Legion Tactics, I'm just hoping for the rest, logic has very little to do with it.
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"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative." |
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2019/08/07 19:14:09
Subject: New marine abilities
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Regular Dakkanaut
Cymru
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Not Online!!! wrote: FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:Is it just me or did GW basically re-write the entire rulebook for SM's? Like, this is 2-3 Chapter Approved in one day. New units, new racial abilities, new costs....how could they possibly have tested this against the Meta?
Playtesting from gw.
Don't be silly
They were playtesting a while ago - we know because one of the playtesters mentioned that a lot of people would be salty when this came out.
That would not have been against the meta we see today, probably more like the meta around the turn of the year.
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2019/08/07 19:14:59
Subject: Re:New marine abilities
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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the added rules makes some sense, Marines are supposed to be elites. pushing down their points cost doesn't address the fundamental disconnect between lore and rules. with these new rules a marine army is gonna feel elite.
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2019/08/07 19:15:28
Subject: New marine abilities
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Martel732 wrote:Rather than making it fair, they are gonna give vanilla marines their time to push everyone around. This doesn't make up for 2 years of being poop, it just pisses off everyone else.
Yep. 100% this.
gonna bet next in line SOB and Legion supplements, then Chaos starts bullying (maybee not if spike tax syndrome pushes through) and then whatever flavour of the month supplement comes out.
Automatically Appended Next Post: happy_inquisitor wrote:Not Online!!! wrote: FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:Is it just me or did GW basically re-write the entire rulebook for SM's? Like, this is 2-3 Chapter Approved in one day. New units, new racial abilities, new costs....how could they possibly have tested this against the Meta?
Playtesting from gw.
Don't be silly
They were playtesting a while ago - we know because one of the playtesters mentioned that a lot of people would be salty when this came out.
That would not have been against the meta we see today, probably more like the meta around the turn of the year.
Great. JUST fething GREAT
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/07 19:15:56
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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